New interview video: Iizuka

[Indigo Rush]

I think there's a reason there isn't much platforming in 3D Sonic, and that's because so far, every attempt has been fairly mediocre. Everyone's epitome of 3D platforming in a Sonic game is the first Adventure game, and I found those sections to be the most frustrating.

When you think about it, the way they designed the Unleashed mechanics with the drift and quickstep is ingenious. If they can't get Sonic to jump properly and aim on things in the 3rd dimension properly, give him something else to do besides hold forward. (or the boosting button) This adds a layer of depth to the speed mechanic in 3D Sonic games, and requires more skill than given credit for. This is why most of the platforming with the Unleashed mechanic is in 2D, because there has yet to be an instance where full 3D platforming as Sonic doesn't frustrate the player. It's possible, but we haven't seen it properly yet. The full-3D jumping and platforming sections in Unleashed are absolutely tedious, and having bottomless pits doesn't help, either. I admit that the pits are unfair, and want to see less of them. But even if they were removed, jumping around in 3D while being Sonic is just... hard to do, and isn't practical.

Going back to Unleashed's 3D mechanics... if handled incorrectly, we either get unfair difficulty spikes, or we get some pretty mediocre linearity. I understand this, but they seems to be working on finding a fair and fun balance for players, and I think it's a little silly to judge the entire outcome of the game based off of the first level of a pre-release. Sonic Colors saw a different focus on level design, and I'm certain some of the better parts of Colors will leak their way into Generations.

The first level likely won't change that much, granted, and seeing the massive size of the architecture leads me to believe there'll be no more than maybe 2 Acts per Zone per Sonic, however we can't know for sure that this is all we are going to get for Green Hill Zone just yet.

Now, if Green Hill doesn't change one iota, then alright, I'll admit that they botched up what could have been a deeper experience. Even so, it's only the first Zone, quite possibly a tutorial level, and we'll certainly have more content to play with.

And to address those who don't prefer this gameplay style, I'm spending time with these posts in an attempt to demolish presuppositions and stereotypes with this mechanic... a lack of jumping on platforms in the 3rd dimension does not mean depth is sacrificed. This is a different kind of depth that is tried, tested, and loved by the majority. It's what sells, it's what people find to be fun, and it logically works the best.

If you don't like it, alright. But I do, and so do many others. We have a right to defend what we like, just as you have a right to criticize what you hate.

[Scar]

Maybe, but the way it's looking now, it won't be as good as Unleashed, which I felt had plenty of problems itself. We're going backwards, here.

We can't say if we're going backwards really.

I've seen some pretty hefty stage overhauls in Unleashed. Namely Savannah Citadel, which had the drifting sections completely reworked. The 2D parts of that stage also received significant upgrading, with a lot more platforms and obstacles added in the final version. Who's to say that this kind of upgrade won't happen here.

Then again, who's to say there will be any upgrades at all. We can't know for sure just yet.

We've seen one stage, of many.

EDIT:

SpikySprinter brings up a fair point.

It would requite impossibly large Moder Sonic stages later on in the game if they were all straight up boost-a-thons. Later levels are expected to be longer, so it would just be even longer stretches of stage they've have to make, alongside the beautifully crafted scenery around it. As well all know having stages so massive would eat up a fuckload of space on the disk, even with the best of compression.

It would be more practical for them to slow down in later levels and put in mroe platforming in order to make a level of similar total size to Green Hill, feel like a much longer, larger level.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Scar

[Chooch]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

[Diogenes]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

Don't like fishing, treasure hunting, mech shooting, psychic powers, and werehogs? Hmhmhm

[sonfan1984]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

That is, if Classic Sonic is already an playable character from the start and you don't need to play modern Sonic to unlock him.

[Blue Blood]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

Watch it get forced upon you.

And also, watch people not be happy when they only like 50% of the game.

I'm still sure that things will change in other levels. There just needs to be more to do.

[ChikaBoing]

Don't like fishing, treasure hunting, mech shooting, psychic powers, and werehogs? Hmhmhm

It won't be that bad. At the very least it will be on Sonic Rush Level.

[Indigo Rush]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

I wish it were that simple, but the fact of the matter is that this game will certainly require the player to play as both if they hope to progress. If these were 2 separate games, your statement would work... but not if either is required.

[Nepenthe]

Well don't you have to press a direction after loading up the Spindash, to get better momentum? And if anything it isn't very comparable.

Anyway it it would just be better, to make it less automated and less like, litterally, controlling Sonic like a race car. Especially in the 2d sections, it's just odd to see Sonic running on his own without any directional Input.

Um, no? You charge it and it shoots you off until friction or an obstacle stops you, and at the top of the charge, the distance Sonic can go on perfectly flat ground is probably the same whether or not you hold forward.

And it is perfectly comparable-- Both moves cause forward momentum without directional input on where Sonic is going.

Regardless, I feel such an idea-- that inherently momentum-causing maneuvers need you to hold right-- unnecessarily complicates the whole deal with running forward, and that the amount of automation that would take out of the formula would be ultimately negligible, even more so when you take into account that probably 99.9% of people who still play Unleashed intuitively hold forward due to precedent.

[ChikaBoing]

I wish it were that simple, but the fact of the matter is that this game will certainly require the player to play as both if they hope to progress.

Didn't know that had been confirmed yet.

[DC111]

Don't like shitty modern Sonic gameplay? Don't play shitty modern Sonic gameplay.

That is what classic Sonic is for.

But we don't know if we'll have that option. The story might require us to play both. I personally don't mind, I like both forms of gameplay... but a lot of other people do, and I think it'd benefit everyone if the forms of gameplay are optional.

EDIT: By the way, 41 users are reading this topic. o_0

Edited April 25, 2011 by DC111

[Indigo Rush]

Didn't know that had been confirmed yet.

It hasn't, but can you honestly say with a straight face that this won't be the case? C'mon man. It'd be cool if we didn't have to play as one or the other (it'd be really smart, actually) but let's not hold our breath in a pool without air bubbles, eh?

[Chooch]

Don't like fishing, treasure hunting, mech shooting, psychic powers, and werehogs? Hmhmhm

Play another series? I think at this point it's kind of a common thing to have an alternate form of gameplay. Really.

I think at this point if I was so adamant against other types of gameplay I would have stopped playing Sonic games years ago.

[Diogenes]

It won't be that bad. At the very least it will be on Sonic Rush Level.

I'd say it's looking worse than Rush right now, but the point is you can't just brush off complaints on one section of the game because you like the other section. That argument was shit for SA, shit for SA2, shit for '06, shit for Unleashed, and it's still shit here.

[Nepenthe]

They're not going to divide the game in half and just say, "You don't have to play half you don't want to." I'd make that shit mandatory on principle-- I spent probably well over three years of my life on this damned game trying to please you people and you don't even want to play all of it? Fuck that noise. It's all or nothing.

[Sean]

Even if Generations allows you to choose, you can't honestly say a game is good outright just by playing half of it. Enjoying only 50% of a game equates it to something in academics, called a failure.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Sean

[SGn3]

Uleashed's first level was Windmill Isle Act 1. You know, the tutorial act that lasted less than a minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wGtsMpihVA

SG's Green Hill Zone looks like it will last at least a minute and a half. It worries me a little, but I still have hope for better level design.

[ChikaBoing]

It hasn't, but can you honestly say with a straight face that this won't be the case? C'mon man. It'd be cool if we didn't have to play as one or the other (it'd be really smart, actually) but let's not hold our breath in a pool without air bubbles, eh?

Well, considering an even not-so detriment thing on gameplay such as the Wisps has been made optional for the most part, could prove things otherwise. Knowing Sonic Team, I'm pretty sure tough that you will have to complete both sides, for the last story or something.

EDIT:*Reads Nepenthes and Indigos Post* Yeah that's true too.

Knowing Sonic Team, I'm pretty that to unlock the last story or something, it will be mandatory to complete both sides.

Edited April 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Eternal EX]

What I don't understand is why is everyone bitching about this level. It's apparently the 1st level in the game for both hogs. Of course they would make it fairly easy to blow through. You don't want to start in a level like EGGMANLAND where passing the first level is the hardest thing in the world but once you do you easily destroy the rest of the game. It's the 1st level of the fucking game. And frankly I like it so far. I'm not a fan of the trumpet remix they have for GHZ but it's decent.

[Indigo Rush]

Well, considering an even not-so detriment thing on gameplay such as the Wisps has been made optional for the most part, could prove things otherwise.

The Wisps really weren't all that optional, to be honest. The only way they ever were optional was when you collected every Red Ring (with the help of the Wisp Power) to turn into Super Sonic, where you would HAVE to be Super Sonic to complete many of the levels without the Wisps.

Besides, Sonic Colors' "gimmick" was ingrained into the main gameplay... with everything else, it's like a variety pack of 2-3 different cereals, except you're forced to eat all of them, even the ones you hate. Sonic Colors is more like, say, Coco Puffs with some Reese's Puffs thrown in the box. Everything else is Trix, Rice Krispies and Golden Grahams side-by-side.

I freaking love food analogies.

[Diogenes]

What I don't understand is why is everyone bitching about this level. It's apparently the 1st level in the game for both hogs. Of course they would make it fairly easy to blow through. You don't want to start in a level like EGGMANLAND where passing the first level is the hardest thing in the world but once you do you easily destroy the rest of the game. It's the 1st level of the fucking game. And frankly I like it so far. I'm not a fan of the trumpet remix they have for GHZ but it's decent.

Because it's a shitty first level. I'm not expecting them to jump into endgame complexity straight off, but I would prefer if it didn't turn into Straight Line Zone every time it went 3D.

[DC111]

Oh, let's bitch about people bitching now. Or bitch about people bitching about people bitching. O.O

I think it's about time for SEGA to show us another level. Then we could get a better idea of whether or not there's enough substance in the levels, and peoples' bitching (or lack thereof) will lead them in the right direction while there's still time left to make changes to the game.

[sonfan1984]

Even if Generations allows you to choose, you can't honestly say a game is good outright just by playing half of it. Enjoying only 50% of a game equates it to something in academics, called a failure.

That doesn't stop people from enjoying SA1 and SA2.

[Blue Blood]

What I don't understand is why is everyone bitching about this level. It's apparently the 1st level in the game for both hogs. Of course they would make it fairly easy to blow through. You don't want to start in a level like EGGMANLAND where passing the first level is the hardest thing in the world but once you do you easily destroy the rest of the game. It's the 1st level of the fucking game. And frankly I like it so far. I'm not a fan of the trumpet remix they have for GHZ but it's decent.

Way to miss the point entirely. Windmill Isle 2, Unleashed's equivalent of this stage, is far more interesting without being any harder.

[Scar]

Even if Generations allows you to choose, you can't honestly say a game is good outright just by playing half of it. Enjoying only 50% of a game equates it to something in academics, called a failure.

By that logic, Sonic 2 is equally fail (50%), and Sonic 3 and Knuckles is even worse (33%).

You know, because you don't have to play as Tails and Knuckles, you can choose. Heck most people only ever played it through as Sonic alone and never even bothered to play as Knuckles.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Scar