New interview video: Iizuka

[Eternal EX]

Because it's a shitty first level. I'm not expecting them to jump into endgame complexity straight off, but I would prefer if it didn't turn into Straight Line Zone every time it went 3D.

Okay its a straight line. That's how the player played it. I saw a few paths that he/she could have taken. All the player did was do a quick run through of the game. Start to finish with no alternate paths or anything. But I see where you are going with this. If the rest of the game (GOD FORBID) is like that then we have a problem. But as of right now it's the first and only level we've seen. So before you or anyone judge it hard, atleast wait for another level to show up.

And Unleashed HD, Colors wii, Sonic adventure and Sonic adventure 2 had straight path 1st stages. Remember that.

Way to miss the point entirely. Windmill Isle 2, Unleashed's equivalent of this stage, is far more interesting without being any harder.

Not really. It was still very linear. With crashing into pots here and there, I really don't see how it's more interesting. Seems more stuff with CRAP.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ultimate X360

[Nepenthe]

Just for the record, the very first act of GHZ literally can be completed in under a minute by holding right, jumping a few times, and letting the near-unavoidable S-tube take some of the load off, even if you're playing casually. I'm guessing this is the part where I suggest ironic retroactive backlash against it?

[BlazingTales]

I would be worried about the linearity of modern Sonic's stages, but I'm not. Colours' first zones were overall straight-forward experiences and lacking in the alternate path department. But by Aquarium Park, the dirt hit the fan.

[Sami]

While not a level I'll go back to very often, M. Sonic's GHZ still looks like it'll give me a good time for three to four minutes (which is a good length for a Sonic level, in my opinion), before moving me on to the next level. I'll probably play it for a while when I want to S-Rank it in my attempt to beat all the M. Sonic levels flawlessly.

While the style of gameplay introduced in Unleashed could use some more platforming, it's still a ton of fun for me for another reason: the rush and satisfaction given by beating one of the levels flawlessly. That was why I've sunk so many hours into Unleashed; replaying levels often enough that I can eventually replay them without making any mistakes is more fun to me than the . GHZ seems like one of those stages I can perfect in my first five or so tries. Is that a bad thing? Not really, it's the first level. If you honestly believe the whole M. Sonic side of the game will be like this, then you need to simply look at the last two games. Unleashed went from Windmill Isle to this:

And Colors went from Tropical Resort to Asteroid Coaster. Colors had to deal with the last three worlds being open to go in whatever you want, so it had to make it so that the difficulty was relatively close between the three and still ended with far more complex levels than the first level would lead us to believe.

tl;dr

It's a different style of gameplay with a different focus. It still looks fun enough to me for first level standards. Unleashed and Colors both had a large difficulty spike, so it would be stupid not to expect this to.

[ChikaBoing]

^As long as Dimps isn't making this(Rush and Unwiished)...

I'd say it's looking worse than Rush right now

How?

Edited April 25, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Scar]

While not a level I'll go back to very often, M. Sonic's GHZ still looks like it'll give me a good time for three to four minutes (which is a good length for a Sonic level, in my opinion), before moving me on to the next level. I'll probably play it for a while when I want to S-Rank it in my attempt to beat all the M. Sonic levels flawlessly.

While the style of gameplay introduced in Unleashed could use some more platforming, it's still a ton of fun for me for another reason: the rush and satisfaction given by beating one of the levels flawlessly. That was why I've sunk so many hours into Unleashed; replaying levels often enough that I can eventually replay them without making any mistakes is more fun to me than the . GHZ seems like one of those stages I can perfect in my first five or so tries. Is that a bad thing? Not really, it's the first level. If you honestly believe the whole M. Sonic side of the game will be like this, then you need to simply look at the last two games. Unleashed went from Windmill Isle to this:

And Colors went from Tropical Resort to Asteroid Coaster. Colors had to deal with the last three worlds being open to go in whatever you want, so it had to make it so that the difficulty was relatively close between the three and still ended with far more complex levels than the first level would lead us to believe.

tl;dr

It's a different style of gameplay with a different focus. It still looks fun enough to me for first level standards. Unleashed and Colors both had a large difficulty spike, so it would be stupid not to expect this to.

Yes this.

I certainly hope that the later stages are more like Adabat and Eggmanland (not difficulty, I mean level design).

I mean visually, Jungle Joyride looks fairly similar to Green Hill, minus the Jungle. I mean look at all the green....

[Core]

By that logic, Sonic 2 is equally fail (50%), and Sonic 3 and Knuckles is even worse (33%).

You know, because you don't have to play as Tails and Knuckles, you can choose. Heck most people only ever played it through as Sonic alone and never even bothered to play as Knuckles.

It's really not the same thing. In Sonic 2, Sonic and Tails play exactly the same. Even if you never play as Tails, if you think playing as Sonic is good, then playing as Tails will be good as well. Moreover, the levels are the same; playing as Sonic or Tails gives you the same experience.

With Sonic Generations the situation is completely different: the 2 Sonics have different gameplays, different level design, they may as well be 2 different games. You cannot just ignore one half of the game and claim the game as a whole is good.

[Diogenes]

By that logic, Sonic 2 is equally fail (50%), and Sonic 3 and Knuckles is even worse (33%).

You know, because you don't have to play as Tails and Knuckles, you can choose. Heck most people only ever played it through as Sonic alone and never even bothered to play as Knuckles.

That's not even close to what he was saying. I mean holy fuck how do you get this so wrong?

The point was that you can't say a game as a whole is good if only half of it is good (or if you only enjoy half of it). No matter what character you're using the Genesis games are practically identical; same gameplay outside a few special moves, same levels (less so for S3&K Knuckles, but still most is shared). You can finish the game with one character and you've seen pretty much all of it. Generations has two entirely different kinds of gameplay in entirely different levels (designwise), ditching one is literally missing out on half the game.

Okay its a straight line. That's how the player played it. I saw a few paths that he/she could have taken.

In the 3D sections? I would appreciate if someone would point these out as I literally cannot find them.

And Unleashed HD, Colors wii, Sonic adventure and Sonic adventure 2 had straight path 1st stages. Remember that.

Doesn't make it right.

edit:

How?

Rush requires the player to take more than 3 actions to finish the level. Edited April 25, 2011 by Diogenes

[Rusty Spy]

When you think about it, the way they designed the Unleashed mechanics with the drift and quickstep is ingenious.

This is why most of the platforming with the Unleashed mechanic is in 2D, because there has yet to be an instance where full 3D platforming as Sonic doesn't frustrate the player.

No, that is not ingenious, that is lazy masking of the real issue and terrible game design. If they can't make Sonic control well in 3D then they have failed from day 1.

Play another series? I think at this point it's kind of a common thing to have an alternate form of gameplay. Really.

I think at this point if I was so adamant against other types of gameplay I would have stopped playing Sonic games years ago.

The fact that those even exist is terrible in it's own right and do NOT belong in a Sonic game. The fact that you're expecting us to just deal with it is sickening.

I shouldn't have to play another game because the developers feel the necessity to shoehorn completely arbitrary, unwanted and unneeded genre roulette into their games. When I play Sonic The Hedgehog, I want to play Sonic The Hedgehog.

EDIT:

The answer is they are playing it safe by doing nothing new at all.

That completely misses the point, having interesting level design is NOT "something new". This is in fact the OPPOSITE of doing something new, this is pretty much a regression. Unleashed's levels were a lot more engaging then what we're seeing here.

They will not address adding platforming or depth to the Unleashed formula.

Nor is platforming anything new. It's only what Sonic has been doing from day 1.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Black Spy

[Burning Neoxor]

I think the problem people are having with modern sonic gameplay is they don't understand what Sonic Team is doing with Sonic Generations. The answer is they are playing it safe by doing nothing new at all. This means giving us the same gameplay formulas we have already experienced with classic, adventure, and modern backdrops and elements. For modern sonic, that means the same boost, dash pads, rails, boost hoops, and the low clearance passages that you have to slide under. With Classic sonic, you get the classic formula full-stop. With the exception of swapping QTE with tricks and a possible spamable spin dash, the formulas are mostly the same. By taking the highly praised classic formula and the well-received (by some) daytime-Unleashed formula, they hope to having a wining combination without taking the risk of introducing something that is fundamentally/substantively new therefore untested or breaking a formula by tweaking it.

So modern Sonic,will play like I expect him to play in unleashed with the obstacles and hazards coming in latter acts or stages. They will not address adding platforming or depth to the Unleashed formula. Oh well, at least I will enjoy the classic half of the game.

[Voyant]

While not a level I'll go back to very often, M. Sonic's GHZ still looks like it'll give me a good time for three to four minutes (which is a good length for a Sonic level, in my opinion), before moving me on to the next level. I'll probably play it for a while when I want to S-Rank it in my attempt to beat all the M. Sonic levels flawlessly.

While the style of gameplay introduced in Unleashed could use some more platforming, it's still a ton of fun for me for another reason: the rush and satisfaction given by beating one of the levels flawlessly. That was why I've sunk so many hours into Unleashed; replaying levels often enough that I can eventually replay them without making any mistakes is more fun to me than the . GHZ seems like one of those stages I can perfect in my first five or so tries. Is that a bad thing? Not really, it's the first level. If you honestly believe the whole M. Sonic side of the game will be like this, then you need to simply look at the last two games. Unleashed went from Windmill Isle to this:

And Colors went from Tropical Resort to Asteroid Coaster. Colors had to deal with the last three worlds being open to go in whatever you want, so it had to make it so that the difficulty was relatively close between the three and still ended with far more complex levels than the first level would lead us to believe.

tl;dr

It's a different style of gameplay with a different focus. It still looks fun enough to me for first level standards. Unleashed and Colors both had a large difficulty spike, so it would be stupid not to expect this to.

Took the words right out of my mouth...this is people finding way to hard to bitch about something. Hell they haven't even COMPLETED the TEXTURES OF THE GAME ALLL THE WAY YET!

Chill guys chill...Jesus...it will flesh out.

I don't remember such crazy bitching like this one his was shown...

Edited April 25, 2011 by Voyant

[Diogenes]

Took the words right out of my mouth...this is people finding way to hard to bitch about something. Hell they haven't even COMPLETED the TEXTURES OF THE GAME ALLL THE WAY YET!

Oh man, so it's going to be rushed or even unfinished too?

[Sami]

Oh man, so it's going to be rushed or even unfinished too?

Oh, stop. We don't even have a release date yet.

Edit: 06 taught them that they can't rush these things and hope for the best. Though it's not common for SEGA to delay things, it's not a delay if we have nothing more to go on than Q4 2011.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Dissident

[Indigo Rush]

No, that is not ingenious, that is lazy masking of the real issue and terrible game design. If they can't make Sonic control well in 3D then they have failed from day 1.

After trying to get 3D platforming down for 10 years and not getting it right, I'd say there isn't a right. Sonic controls well enough in 3D to do what Sonic does. Saying that it is terrible game design isn't an accurate statement in the least. You may not agree with the design and not like it, but it isn't a terrible design choice. That's just how Sonic controls in 3D. He's a runner. He's got to run fast, otherwise you gimp out a huge chunk of Sonic's gameplay philosophy. If you try and make it easier to control him in 3D, you're going to get some awkward sections that just don't fit.

EDIT:

It's only what Sonic has been doing from day 1.

In 2D.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Your Vest Friend]

So, wait, Unleashed is bad, but it's also good, but Colours is awesome, but it's too linear, but there's nostalgia of the simple times, but it's too simple, but all starter levels ar simple, but all starter levels shouldn't be simple...

...Can I just have my Chaotix confirmation to distract me from working this stuff out?

[Rusty Spy]

Took the words right out of my mouth...this is people finding way to hard to bitch about something. Hell they haven't even COMPLETED the TEXTURES OF THE GAME ALLL THE WAY YET!

Chill guys chill...Jesus...it will flesh out.

I don't remember such crazy bitching like this one his was shown...

That's because the last game we got was this:

We were happy enough to see something GOOD.

M.Sonic's gameplay however, is the successor to Unleashed and a lot of people liked Unleashed, so naturally, many people expect it to live up to Unleashed.

After trying to get 3D platforming down for 10 years and not getting it right, I'd say there isn't a right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lffwR5-U0YE

That is BULLSHIT. If they can't get it right they aren't trying hard enough. There are hundreds, HUNDREDS of games that don't falter in something as simple as controlling the characters in the game. Sonic is not a special case in this, he should be able to control in 3D, he has no magic aura around him that makes him incompatible with good controls when given a Z-axis to move in.

We aren't looking for the holy grail of video games, something that's only talked about in legends, this is basic control that Sega should've gotten right by Sonic Heroes, if not by SA2.

Nobody always gets it right the first time. Sometimes it takes some experimentation, maybe even a bit of retooling of the gameplay, but it's been 10 years, a decade. If Sega STILL can't get it right or are too busy fucking around in their offices to actually buckle down and MAKE it work, then I refuse to take ANY excuse.

Saying that it is terrible game design isn't an accurate statement in the least.

It is when it is used to gloss over obvious mistakes they shouldn't have ignored.

He's got to run fast, otherwise you gimp out a huge chunk of Sonic's gameplay philosophy.

So your trying to say Sonic is justified in controlling like shit in 3D?

If you try and make it easier to control him in 3D, you're going to get some awkward sections that just don't fit.

Like what, pray tell? Platforming? Not feeling like your controlling a drunken hippy on ice in the middle of the running of the bulls?

Edited April 25, 2011 by Black Spy

[Voyant]

Oh man, so it's going to be rushed or even unfinished too?

Dio man..I love you and you normally have your head on straight, but come one....that trailer I just showed you was relieved around the same time generations was shown...hell the playable demo at E3 was more barren than the finished product...your TRYING to find things to bitch at...like very hard.

[Dark Qiviut]

Oh, stop. We don't even ave a release date yet.

http://www.manolith.com/2011/04/25/sonic-the-hedgehog-game-%E2%80%93-sonic-generations-delayed-watch-sneak-peak/

If this is true, chances are ST HD has an extra month to develop.

BTW, everyone here seems to have forgotten one very big thing regarding Unleashed HD. Even after its initial release in November 2008, patches and updates were coming in to polish it up even further.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Attitude Adjustment

[ChikaBoing]

Dio man..I love you and you normally have your head on straight, but come one....that trailer I just showed you was relieved around the same time generations was shown...hell the playable demo at E3 was more barren than the finished product...your TRYING to find things to bitch at...like very hard.

Maybe it's because he only has a Wii.

[Scar]

We're discussing the linearity of the first stage, which is arguable a regression from Unleashed's first stage, at a point in time when the level design isn't even finalised and according to TSSZ, isn't due for completion till December (hate the articles, but the news is usually fairly accurate).

I must say this again, but Unleashed's stages showed a lot of changes from trailer to final game. There is no telling whether this stage is going to remain like this, or whether the layout of forground level design is rearranged or changed entirely. Yes, assuming that it will change is wishful thinking, but assuming that it won't change isn't that different, just the opposite.

In fact, the footage we've seen is completely stock. As mentioned by Shadzter, the way the footage from completely different sources matches up, is just too perfect. Likelihood is that the ppreviews are just that pre-veiws, and they haven't actually played the game yet, and have just been given demp footage.

Heck it could even be an older build that we're seeing footage of....

I don't know much about the game itself right now, but I really hope Sonic Team show us another stage to silence all this speculation once and for all. Hopefull they show us some really fucking complex Modern Level design

[SilentDoom]

Maybe it's because he only has a Wii.

I only have a Wii, but I'm freakin HYPED for this. In fact I was hyped about MvC3 in a similar way too.

In fact I think it's silly that one should hate on the game simply for it not being on your console. We're all Sonic fans aren't we? Can't we just enjoy the game and hype up for it no matter what console we own?

[Diogenes]

Oh, stop. We don't even have a release date yet.

ps that was a joke

Dio man..I love you and you normally have your head on straight, but come one....that trailer I just showed you was relieved around the same time generations was shown...hell the playable demo at E3 was more barren than the finished product...your TRYING to find things to bitch at...like very hard.

Look, man, the 3D gameplay is not only not improved from Unleashed, it actually looks worse, in terms of level design. I am not looking for things to complain about, I am looking at that ~40 second stretch where you can do nothing but boost and hold forward and still succeed and I am saying that is shitty design, that should not be in this game, and it is not filling me with confidence for the rest of it.

ps this one is not a joke

Maybe it's because he only has a Wii.

No.

[ChikaBoing]

I only have a Wii, but I'm freakin HYPED for this. In fact I was hyped about MvC3 in a similar way too.

In fact I think it's silly that one should hate on the game simply for it not being on your console. We're all Sonic fans aren't we? Can't we just enjoy the game and hype up for it no matter what console we own?

Was just joking.

[Indigo Rush]

Diogenes, what exactly do you want Sonic to do in 3D?

[SilentDoom]

Was just joking.

*Shrugs shoulders* Meh, ya never know. Gamers tend to act like butthurt fags a lot nowadays.