New interview video: Iizuka

[Voyant]

=

Look, man, the 3D gameplay is not only not improved from Unleashed, it actually looks worse, in terms of level design. I am not looking for things to complain about, I am looking at that ~40 second stretch where you can do nothing but boost and hold forward and still succeed and I am saying that is shitty design, that should not be in this game, and it is not filling me with confidence for the rest of it.

Thats...cause its the MOTHERFUCKING ALPHA! Its probably fucking stock! All Sonic games that we gotten in 3D had a demo build for people to look at and its lacked level design...these holes were either changed or scraped.

Show me an official level trailer of City Escape looking like Green Hill Zone (Most Likely Alpha) and I will be REALLY pissed off, but being how Sega show cases their games...this isn't surprising...cchhhiilll.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Voyant

[Eternal EX]

While not a level I'll go back to very often, M. Sonic's GHZ still looks like it'll give me a good time for three to four minutes (which is a good length for a Sonic level, in my opinion), before moving me on to the next level. I'll probably play it for a while when I want to S-Rank it in my attempt to beat all the M. Sonic levels flawlessly.

While the style of gameplay introduced in Unleashed could use some more platforming, it's still a ton of fun for me for another reason: the rush and satisfaction given by beating one of the levels flawlessly. That was why I've sunk so many hours into Unleashed; replaying levels often enough that I can eventually replay them without making any mistakes is more fun to me than the . GHZ seems like one of those stages I can perfect in my first five or so tries. Is that a bad thing? Not really, it's the first level. If you honestly believe the whole M. Sonic side of the game will be like this, then you need to simply look at the last two games. Unleashed went from Windmill Isle to this:

And Colors went from Tropical Resort to Asteroid Coaster. Colors had to deal with the last three worlds being open to go in whatever you want, so it had to make it so that the difficulty was relatively close between the three and still ended with far more complex levels than the first level would lead us to believe.

tl;dr

It's a different style of gameplay with a different focus. It still looks fun enough to me for first level standards. Unleashed and Colors both had a large difficulty spike, so it would be stupid not to expect this to.

I actually forgot how amazing this stage looks, visually and level wise. This is what I'm talking about. Something that fits fairly close to the end of the game but not yet the final stage. Apotos turn into this within hours. Linear at times but still had a fair amount of alternate paths to reach the next area in the level.

[Diogenes]

Diogenes, what exactly do you want Sonic to do in 3D?

Platforming, among other things. I don't have a fully-formed game concept that I can just regurgitate on command, but I'd like to see them bring in the classic Sonic physics, put more focus on platforming (both basic jumping-on-platforms style and using the physics to platform) along with a world that's more open (that's "more open than Unleashed style", not fully open; think a bit more open than SA's levels).

edit:

Thats...cause its the MOTHERFUCKING ALPHA!

Concerning that ~40 seconds towards the end of the level, there's barely anything you can do to make that more complicated, without tearing down the level design at its most basic level. It's a very narrow hallway, almost completely devoid of...well, anything. At most you can put some spikes in the quick step section before the goal ring.

Again, I say, I will believe it when I motherfucking see it.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Diogenes

[Scar]

ps that was a joke

Look, man, the 3D gameplay is not only not improved from Unleashed, it actually looks worse, in terms of level design. I am not looking for things to complain about, I am looking at that ~40 second stretch where you can do nothing but boost and hold forward and still succeed and I am saying that is shitty design, that should not be in this game, and it is not filling me with confidence for the rest of it.

ps this one is not a joke

No.

The Unleashed Trailer shown above is enough indication that level design isn't final till we see a reveiw of the final retail build of the game.

The Windmill Isle footage was completely different to what we saw in the final game. The Savannah Citadel was also changed a lot. And we have 7 months till this game is released, and thus about 5-6 months of development time still remaining, so things will probably change, and hopefully for the better.

There is rarely anything I've seen that is worse in the final game, than it was in the demo/gameplay footage.

[Nepenthe]

As I said before, unless alternate paths are being suggested with the assumption that Sonic Team will do more with them than just place some extra lives there before you're forced back onto the main path in order to reach the only exit in the stage, then I couldn't care less that they're there or not because then they're being shoved in just because. A location in a game can be engaging even if it doesn't allow you off the beaten path. This sudden attack on linearity itself when it's my belief that only ShtH did anything significant with alternate paths in terms of them being vital to the game's various outcomes and the presentation of its motif on relative morality kinda irks me.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

Alternate paths are one thing, but the only 3D part of that level that looks engaging in any way is the giant fish, and that's all style, no substance.

[BlazingTales]

Hey guys, I just noticed something in the gameplay footage that I hadn't noticed before. Look at this:

The loop in Green Hill Zone has GRASS in it! Why would they put grass on the loop in Green Hill Zone? There's no way grass could grow UPSIDE DOWN, or in a shaded area like that. There was never grass in the loop in other renditions of the stage! Even NINTENDO got it right. Bioware didn't but they don't count. Still, Nintendo, REALLY? How could they get that wrong! What the crap is wrong with you, SEGA?!

Edited April 25, 2011 by BlazingTales

[Eternal EX]

Platforming, among other things. I don't have a fully-formed game concept that I can just regurgitate on command, but I'd like to see them bring in the classic Sonic physics, put more focus on platforming (both basic jumping-on-platforms style and using the physics to platform) along with a world that's more open (that's "more open than Unleashed style", not fully open; think a bit more open than SA's levels).

It's entertaining arguing with you but I do see what you want. Something more than just press up/right and go. It be a bottomless pit or building to jump across. Just something to fill in the open area. But dude chill for a little while. It's only a alpha build so far. We already know they are gonna change up the stage some. Look at the trailer, right before sonic jumps into the waterfall and gets chased by the huge fish. That ramp probably will send you into a different location. Maybe above the waterfall? Don't know yet. But just for a few months wait and chill til we all see another level.

[Indigo Rush]

Platforming, among other things. I don't have a fully-formed game concept that I can just regurgitate on command, but I'd like to see them bring in the classic Sonic physics, put more focus on platforming (both basic jumping-on-platforms style and using the physics to platform) along with a world that's more open (that's "more open than Unleashed style", not fully open; think a bit more open than SA's levels).

I had a feeling that's what you were talking about. I don't think the Unleashed playstyle is ever going to put focus on that, since the overarching objective of these games are extremely speed oriented.

I'd like to see some minimal exploration in a 3D Sonic game, but I'm not convinced that this will work properly unless Sonic's speed is reduced greatly, and the boost mechanic removed or gimped severely... at which point we're just making another Sonic Adventure, and, ironically, going even more backwards.

That's how I see it, at least. I've been a strong advocate for there being 2 interpretations of 3D Sonic, the current Modern Sonic with a speed focus, and an Adventure-style with more traditional platforming, and a slower Sonic so platforming can handle somewhat better.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Voyant]

Hey guys, I just noticed something in the gameplay footage that I hadn't noticed before. Look at this:

The loop in Green Hill Zone has GRASS in it! Why would they put grass on the loop in Green Hill Zone? There's no way grass could grow UPSIDE DOWN, or in a shaded area like that. There was never grass in the loop in other renditions of the stage! Even NINTENDO got it right. Bioware didn't but they don't count. Still, Nintendo, REALLY? How could they get that wrong! What the crap is wrong with you, SEGA?!

I like this post..since I know where he coming from XD

gets the joke/

[Rusty Spy]

Hey guys, I just noticed something in the gameplay footage that I hadn't noticed before. Look at this:

The loop in Green Hill Zone has GRASS in it! Why would they put grass on the loop in Green Hill Zone? There's no way grass could grow UPSIDE DOWN, or in a shaded area like that. There was never grass in the loop in other renditions of the stage! Even NINTENDO got it right. Bioware didn't but they don't count. Still, Nintendo, REALLY? How could they get that wrong! What the crap is wrong with you, SEGA?!

Hey! Stop stealing my sig! >=0 [/jokingdontrainawhinefestuponmeIfeeldumbhavingtoclarifyasitruinsthejoke]

I'd like to see some minimal exploration in a 3D Sonic game, but I'm not convinced that this will work properly unless Sonic's speed is reduced greatly, and the boost mechanic removed or gimped severely... at which point we're just making another Sonic Adventure, and, ironically, going even more backwards.

Toning down one overpowering aspect of the game (speed) so you can better expand in all other areas of the game (platforming, varied level design, etc etc etc.) is NOT going backwards, it's called evolution, not digging yourself in a rut where you can just sit there forever in a pool of okayishness.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Black Spy

[Nepenthe]

Alternate paths are one thing, but the only 3D part of that level that looks engaging in any way is the giant fish, and that's all style, no substance.

Which is true of Apotos, with the exception of the existence of a showcase piece, and yet the ire that level got has actually lessened over the years, with GHZ having taken it's place as the poster child of Unleashed's sacrilegious linearity.

I mean honestly, I can't keep up with what's acceptable and what's not in this gosh-darned fanbase anymore. -.-

[Scar]

edit:

Concerning that ~40 seconds towards the end of the level, there's barely anything you can do to make that more complicated, without tearing down the level design at its most basic level. It's a very narrow hallway, almost completely devoid of...well, anything. At most you can put some spikes in the quick step section before the goal ring.

Again, I say, I will believe it when I motherfucking see it.

Well, apart from the really pretty watery path, there is a lot of space Sonic Team could put more level design in.

The part closest to the ending has plenty of rendered geometry already there. In fact the whole goddamn level has seemingly useless geometry floating about. They can simply widen the picket fences to actually use that geometry, then all they need to do is fill that BIG space with level design.

There is plenty of stage for Sonic Team to work with thanks to the Art Team and Modelers, so they can simply use the otherwise unused, but pre-existing level geometry to extend the stage's reaches and make it wider and more engaging.

I don't know whether they'll do it or not, or how much they'll do it if they actually do, but there is certainly the potential.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Scar

[DC111]

Hey guys, I just noticed something in the gameplay footage that I hadn't noticed before. Look at this:

The loop in Green Hill Zone has GRASS in it! Why would they put grass on the loop in Green Hill Zone? There's no way grass could grow UPSIDE DOWN, or in a shaded area like that. There was never grass in the loop in other renditions of the stage! Even NINTENDO got it right. Bioware didn't but they don't count. Still, Nintendo, REALLY? How could they get that wrong! What the crap is wrong with you, SEGA?!

Haha, see what you did there.

[Diogenes]

Hey guys, I just noticed something in the gameplay footage that I hadn't noticed before. Look at this:

The loop in Green Hill Zone has GRASS in it! Why would they put grass on the loop in Green Hill Zone? There's no way grass could grow UPSIDE DOWN, or in a shaded area like that. There was never grass in the loop in other renditions of the stage! Even NINTENDO got it right. Bioware didn't but they don't count. Still, Nintendo, REALLY? How could they get that wrong! What the crap is wrong with you, SEGA?!

Obviously it used to be flat ground, but the time holes twisted it into a loop.

We already know they are gonna change up the stage some.

Some, yes. Enough? Not without essentially scrapping the whole thing, I think.

I don't think the Unleashed playstyle is ever going to put focus on that, since the overarching objective of these games are extremely speed oriented.

Then we execute it and put its head on a pike as a warning.

I'd like to see some minimal exploration in a 3D Sonic game, but I'm not convinced that this will work properly unless Sonic's speed is reduced greatly, and the boost mechanic removed or gimped severely... at which point we're just making another Sonic Adventure, and, ironically, going even more backwards.

Sometimes you've got to turn back when you've made a wrong turn. Look, I don't want to just ape the Adventure games; I've argued against that, many times. But I don't think Unleashed is entirely the right way to go, and I'm damn sure it shouldn't stay as it is even if it were. I want to take what we've learned, from the classics, from the Adventures, from Unleashed, and make something better than all of them.

[Voyant]

Sometimes you've got to turn back when you've made a wrong turn. Look, I don't want to just ape the Adventure games; I've argued against that, many times. But I don't think Unleashed is entirely the right way to go, and I'm damn sure it shouldn't stay as it is even if it were. I want to take what we've learned, from the classics, from the Adventures, from Unleashed, and make something better than all of them.

If Unleashed style..is succcccchhhhh a wrong turn...then why do...so many..not only fans...but critics like it so much. Oo? Do I agree building upon it sure...but scrapping Unleashed concept entirely will be stupid.

Your in the small minority in this dude...whether you like it or not and All SA/SA2 levels was a slow unleashed with a tad more platforming...at least Unleashed has proper physics, momentum, and a sense of inertia.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Voyant

[Vec]

Wow, it's complaining time! YAY!

So, wait, Unleashed is bad, but it's also good, but Colours is awesome, but it's too linear, but there's nostalgia of the simple times, but it's too simple, but all starter levels ar simple, but all starter levels shouldn't be simple...

Yeah, that what I got from all the read X6

...Can I just have my Chaotix confirmation to distract me from working this stuff out?

Good idea

Poor Iizuka, from all questions, they had to ask which era of Sonic was his favorite, you can clearly see he wasn't expecting that

[thatguyfrom03]

I just realized we've spent 9 pages freaking out over something that probably wont even be an issue in the later levels. Now I know Sonic Teams track record but it's just so HIGHLY unlikely that the other stages will be this simple. We got an additional..what 10 seconds of footage, and we went from hyped to shitting ourselves. If our biggest fear is that Sonic Team wont create levels that they've proven they can create in the past, then we are some panicky fans.

[Diogenes]

If Unleashed style..is succcccchhhhh a wrong turn...then why do...so many..not only fans...but critics like it so much. Oo?

If Unleashed gameplay is so great why did so many people beg and plead and whine until they got classic Sonic back?

Your in the small minority in this dude...whether you like it or not.

I don't give a shit, I'll keep arguing for what I think is best no matter how many people agree.

and All SA/SA2 levels was a slow unleashed with a tad more platforming...at least Unleashed has proper physics and momentum.

Great, let's take the "proper physics and momentum" and combine it with the "more platforming". Better game, right?

This series can be so much better than what I see in that video.

[Rusty Spy]

If our biggest fear is that Sonic Team wont create levels that they've proven they can create in the past, then we are some panicky fans.

Wait, so we're panicky if Sega are, yet again, not living up to the success of what previous games have done, and going back into a regression where the gameplay slowly gets shallower and shallower until we hit rock bottom and they make the Sonic 06 of Unleas-OH CHRIST!

[Sean]

People shouldn't even attempt to equate popularity with quality.

Don't know about you guys, but I've been really hoping that Sega would develop a 3D Sonic game that's, well, actually 3D, with substantial platforming. Sticking with the Unleashed formula is a monumental let-down.

Especially since the amount of 2D sections is increasing with each passing game. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

[Voyant]

If Unleashed gameplay is so great why did so many people beg and plead and whine until they got classic Sonic back?

I don't give a shit, I'll keep arguing for what I think is best no matter how many people agree.

Great, let's take the "proper physics and momentum" and combine it with the "more platforming". Better game, right?

This series can be so much better than what I see in that video.

*dust off hands* Well...guess what that's what we are VAGUELY gonna get in the game since judging the game by its alpha is pretty much all the evidence we need to call it crap.

Hey guys...I just peered 7 months in the future and found out that that the game is shit despite it being based on very successful and positive acclaimed styles....we can all be sad and move on with out lives...lets hope we get a decent game in the 30th anniversary.

Sadly I cannot peer into he future that far...Since you know...the world going to end in 2012 anyway :S

[Chooch]

If Unleashed gameplay is so great why did so many people beg and plead and whine until they got classic Sonic back?

..Because those same people have been doing that for far longer?

It's not anything new.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Chooch

[Scar]

If Unleashed gameplay is so great why did so many people beg and plead and whine until they got classic Sonic back?

I don't give a shit, I'll keep arguing for what I think is best no matter how many people agree.

Great, let's take the "proper physics and momentum" and combine it with the "more platforming". Better game, right?

This series can be so much better than what I see in that video.

Easier said than done mate.

Now why don't we wait until we see some more footage and gameplay.

[Indigo Rush]

Eh. You either like Unleashed or you don't. We could debate about the best way to put Sonic in 3D 'til the cows come home, but we're not really gonna get anywhere, are we?

Let's just agree that the Unleashed gamplay mechanic is strictly speed-focused with elements of varying skill in 3D and elements of platforming in 2D. It could handle better at slower speeds, but I don't think we're going to get this. Sonic Team's interpretation of Sonic is clear. We know what to expect.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Indigo Rush