PS Vita

[Scar]

And that hasn't worked out for them this entire generation. I seriously think they need to rethink their strategy because, their systems are not PCs.

[Conando]

The problem is that they lost too much money in those endeavors. They did recuperate it but, they didn't turn any huge profits on the PS3 as far as I can tell. I don't know about PSP, though it did take quite some time for them to actually start making money on that. The thing about the Vita, though, is that it seems like it's even MORE of a money sink than those 2 platforms, it's not really a sustainable strategy.

[Scar]

The problem is that they lost too much money in those endeavors. They did recuperate it but, they didn't turn any huge profits on the PS3 as far as I can tell. I don't know about PSP, though it did take quite some time for them to actually start making money on that. The thing about the Vita, though, is that it seems like it's even MORE of a money sink than those 2 platforms, it's not really a sustainable strategy.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Scar

[The Kid]

They carved a decent share of the handheld market with the PSP (71 Million Units) using this same approach, and inspite of slow initial sales of the PS3, the platform is now quite successful (63 Million Units). So no, I don't think there is much wrong with Sony's strategy. In fact it can be argued, that its been quite a massive success. OK not as big a success as the PS2, but that was an exception.

Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with the Vita. People are willing to spend that kind of money on a handheld. Heck people spent that kind of money on the 3DS when it launched. No, the business model of creating very powerful harware isn't the problem here. Its the lack of games. As soon as Sony start pushing games that people would want to own on the Vita, sales will pick up, even if just a little bit. We know that Sony is looking for a price drop next year, that will help a little bit too.

The difference is Nintendo realized how big of a mistake their launch was because of the lack of quality titles, and tried to fix it with a price cut and free games. People aren't willing to spend money on a pricey handheld like the Vita when Sony isn't even offering quality titles or features the PSP has like PS1 play-ability. Heck the Black Ops game that everyone was excited about for Vita is being developed by the same people who made Resistance: Burning Skies, and look how that turned out http://www.metacriti...e-burning-skies. Games on the horizon for Vita are mostly Cross-Buy titles that won't sell a handheld (people won't pick up a handheld just to play a PS3 game they have on the go) or PSN downloadable titles.

As for the possibility of lower costing materials ending up reducing the price of The Vita, I wouldn't hold my breath. There isn't anything definite right now besides "No price drop this year, maybe in the future sometime." That's hardly reassuring. There is something wrong with Sony's strategy, and instead of declaring the launch a loss and fixing it, they'd rather pretend almost nothing is wrong and hope things are fixed next year.

Even if the materials will become cheaper next year, it isn't a smart strategy to sell a handheld with the mindset of "It'll be cheaper to produce next year, let's tough it out and hope we sell a lot." I mean with the PS3 didn't they end up having to remove hardware like the Emotion Engine to cut costs? That's a dangerous road they're walking down that seems to be more trouble than it is worth.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Scar]

The difference is Nintendo realized how big of a mistake their launch was because of the lack of quality titles, and tried to fix it with a price cut and free games.

It should be noted that the 3DS had a price cut because firstly, it was overpriced at $250 and because Sony bitch-slapped Nintendo by also pricing the Vita at $250. The embassador programme was created because early adopters who payed $250 weren't going to be happy when less than 6 months later the price was slashed to $170.

People aren't willing to spend money on a pricey handheld like the Vita when Sony isn't even offering quality titles or features the PSP has like PS1 play-ability. Heck the Black Ops game that everyone was excited about for Vita is being developed by the same people who made Resistance: Burning Skies, and look how that turned out http://www.metacriti...e-burning-skies. Games on the horizon for Vita are mostly Cross-Buy titles that won't sell a handheld (people won't pick up a handheld just to play a PS3 game they have on the go) or PSN downloadable titles.

So back to what I said, its not the price that is the problem, its the lack of games. Unfortunately, Sony don't really have an "Ocarina of Time" or Mario equivalent they can rely on and dump on the system to attract numerous fans, so they have to wait for developers to make quality games for the platform. This will of course take time, but they have barely marketed the damn system, which is a huge problem.

As for the possibility of lower costing materials ending up reducing the price of The Vita, I wouldn't hold my breath. There isn't anything definite right now besides "No price drop this year, maybe in the future sometime." That's hardly reassuring. There is something wrong with Sony's strategy, and instead of declaring the launch a loss and fixing it, they'd rather pretend almost nothing is wrong and hope things are fixed next year.

http://www.eurogamer...-2012-price-cut

Yeah, they are working towards reduce the cost.

Even if the materials will become cheaper next year, it isn't a smart strategy to sell a handheld with the mindset of "It'll be cheaper to produce next year, let's tough it out and hope we sell a lot." I mean with the PS3 didn't they end up having to remove hardware like the Emotion Engine to cut costs? That's a dangerous road they're walking down that seems to be more trouble than it is worth.

They had to cut the Emotion Engine, because the Blu-Ray drive was too expensive and didn't decrease in cost for a long time. Even today, the most expensive component of the PS3 is the Blu-Ray drive.

The Vita doesn't have a Blu-Ray player, its just using standard technology that most smartphones have.

The International Samsung Galaxy S3 uses the Quad Core Cortex A9. The iPad 3 uses Power VR SGX543mP4. All smartphones have cameras and gyroscopes, axial sensors, ambient light sensors etc. All smartphones have capacitive touch panels. There are numerous smartphones which use OLED displays. So in the end the chances for the Vita' price to drop are fairly high. There is nothing on the Vita which is prohibitively expensive as the Blu-Ray tech was with the PS3.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Scar

[Thigolf]

Sony has just to lower the ridiculous SD card prices and I'm getting a Vita.

[Scar]

Sony has just to lower the ridiculous SD card prices and I'm getting a Vita.

That too.

[The Kid]

It should be noted that the 3DS had a price cut because firstly, it was overpriced at $250 and because Sony bitch-slapped Nintendo by also pricing the Vita at $250. The embassador programme was created because early adopters who payed $250 weren't going to be happy when less than 6 months later the price was slashed to $170.

It should also be noted that the Vita is considered overpriced at $250. And bitch-slapped... I don't know what you're trying to say there? but even before Nintendo's price cut it still sold more than the Vita has now.

So back to what I said, its not the price that is the problem, its the lack of games. Unfortunately, Sony don't really have an "Ocarina of Time" or Mario equivalent they can rely on and dump on the system to attract numerous fans, so they have to wait for developers to make quality games for the platform. This will of course take time, but they have barely marketed the damn system, which is a huge problem.

It's not just going to take time, it's going to take Sony convincing third party developers to get on board, which they're still having trouble with. They have Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, all big series they could put on the Vita. So don't tell me they they don't have an OoT equivalent.

http://www.eurogamer...-2012-price-cut

Yeah, they are working towards reduce the cost.

Again, "working on" is hardly reassuring.

They had to cut the Emotion Engine, because the Blu-Ray drive was too expensive and didn't decrease in cost for a long time. Even today, the most expensive component of the PS3 is the Blu-Ray drive.

The Vita doesn't have a Blu-Ray player, its just using standard technology that most smartphones have.

The International Samsung Galaxy S3 uses the Quad Core Cortex A9. The iPad 3 uses Power VR SGX543mP4. All smartphones have cameras and gyroscopes, axial sensors, ambient light sensors etc. All smartphones have capacitive touch panels. There are numerous smartphones which use OLED displays. So in the end the chances for the Vita' price to drop are fairly high. There is nothing on the Vita which is prohibitively expensive as the Blu-Ray tech was with the PS3.

A price drop "possibly" happening "sometime" next year isn't much to rely on. If they are so sure cheaper materials are going to lower the cost next year, they should drop the price now and take a hit until it does lower. The longer they wait the more repercussions it could have.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Dobkeratops]

Sony has just to lower the ridiculous SD card prices and I'm getting a Vita.

I got mine with a free 8Gb card on launch day for less than 230.

Amazon <3

A price drop "possibly" happening "sometime" next year isn't much to rely on. If they are so sure cheaper materials are going to lower the cost next year, they should drop the price now and take a hit until it does lower. The longer they wait the more repercussions it could have.

Dropping the price alone is nowhere near as efficient as getting a big game release (or several) + pricedrop + bundle w/ limited edition or new colors. Ideally they'd line as many of these factors as possible for much greater effect, but we'll see.

Parts will drop in price earlier than with previous hardware because the architecture is considerably less exotic.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Dobkeratops

[Scar]

It should also be noted that the Vita is considered overpriced at $250. And bitch-slapped... I don't know what you're trying to say there? but even before Nintendo's price cut it still sold more than the Vita has now.

Well that depends. See at $250, the Vita is hilariously good value given the technology that it contains and its excellent build quality.

Its pushing the limits of what a handheld console should cost, but given that next years flagship smartphones will be more powerful than the Vita, I'd say Sony did well in providing decently future-proof hardware at a good price.

As for bitch-slapped. What I meant by that was, it send a shock to Nintendo, because their grossly overpriced 3DS was being matched dollar for dollar by far superior hardware in the Vita. Given that the price-drop occured 2 months after Sony announced price details for the Vita, I'd say that Sony's competitive pricing is what forced Nintendo's hand into cutting their profits and reducing the 3DS's price.

And if what you say about the 3DS selling more at $250 than the Vita is now, then it supports my claim that people are willing to spend $250 on a handheld

It's not just going to take time, it's going to take Sony convincing third party developers to get on board, which they're still having trouble with.

Games don't just pop into existance, it takes time for developers to make them. Some developers have current projects they need to finish before moving to make a game for the Vita.

They have Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, all big series they could put on the Vita. So don't tell me they they don't have an OoT equivalent.

They already have Uncharted out and LBP on the way. But even those popular titles don't really compare to the likes of Ocarina of Time, which is widely regarded as one of the best games of all time. Certainly the remake of said game is sure to send nostalgic gamers running with their cash to a nearby game store to purchase a 3DS and 15 year old memories in 3D. Unless you're seriously telling me that the Uncharted/Ratchet&Clank/LBP series' are better than or equal to the Zelda series. And even if they were they still don't have the 25+ year heritage that Zelda, metroid or Mario have.

Again, "working on" is hardly reassuring.

Well what do you want? A price drop effective immediately? Do you know how business works?

Them saying that they're planning to reduce the costs and therefore the price is basically confirmation of the blatantly obvious.

A price drop "possibly" happening "sometime" next year isn't much to rely on.

But there is no "possibly" the price will drop, because technology depreciates over time.

If they are so sure cheaper materials are going to lower the cost next year, they should drop the price now and take a hit until it does lower.

Because they face a greater expense. The Vita has been out for little over 6 months now. If they cut the price now, early adopters will feel screwed, like they did with the 3DS, and so they will need to give out free games and/or services to becalm the consumers. And seeing as they're already basically selling the console at cost or lower, they will make even more losses.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Scar

[Sami]

I find it hilarious that Nintendo fans commonly complain about the price of the Vita, when Nintendo had the audacity to charge $250, saying that was what the 3DS was worth, and then cut the price just a few months later.

That's bad business, and no, Sony should not be taking notes. The only thing the Vita needs is games, and a price drop on those memory cards.

[Carbo]

Vita getting a price drop at this point would basically be Sony admitting to it being a gigantic blunder of a failure and a gamble that's pretty much going to put itself into potential jeopardy. An astounding plethora of loss at their last quarterly report was attributed to their consoles that they had to group Playstation 3 along with Playstation 2, and the Vita with the PSP, just to make the numbers seem appealing to the stockholders, and even then they were pretty terrible. Especially when the Vita and PSP combined sold less this fiscal year than the PSP did it's entire last year, causing them to re-evaluate their amount of shipped consoles by next year.

Vita doesn't need a price drop, the console is already selling at a loss for a stupidly generous price, which Sony could have easily toughened up about 3 years ago, but it doesn't really fly that well now, and it's especially bad when you've got the company's German division's chief admitting that you're doing pretty bad with it when revealing that it's only sold 2.2 million when the entire company is expecting 12M next year.

Third parties aren't very into it, people don't care much for the actual "tech" anymore when it comes to pricing and there aren't any real games to it people could claim to be perfect to own the console for. For being the coolest console on the block it's pretty unappealing for the masses, and Sony really needs to do something, but a price cut is not it.

I abhor the fact that I always come into this topic so cynical, especially when the PS3 is my favorite console this generation. I just wish Sony could prove me wrong on the way I feel about this thing.

[Scar]

Getting more games would be a good start.

Tearaway looks like a fantastic game, but I'm not sure it would sell the console to people other than Media Molecule fans. ACIII:Liberations, Fifa and CoD:Blops: Declassified have the potential to generate sales but not on the order of 12M right away (though I could be proven wrong, the market is extremely volatile.

I reckon the need an Western RPG maybe also a JRPG, but where said games could come from is the problem.

Wasn't there also this thing about a Vita exclusive Bioshock?

Goddamn, it really disappoints me that Sony have produced a fantastic handheld, but it don't got no games to sell it.

Sony must be hoping and praying that the upcoming AAA games are enough for the system to at least hit.....say 5-6 million units.

EDIT: Console sales on the whole are in a bit of a slump. Its just that Sony's rather feeble numbers are even more feeble than before.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Scar

[The Kid]

I find it hilarious that Nintendo fans commonly complain about the price of the Vita, when Nintendo had the audacity to charge $250, saying that was what the 3DS was worth, and then cut the price just a few months later.

That's bad business, and no, Sony should not be taking notes. The only thing the Vita needs is games, and a price drop on those memory cards.

I'm actually glad they cut the price. It pissed off a ton of people who were early adopters (including me) but at least the twenty games helped a bit. $180 seems like a lot more reasonable price compared to $250. But then again I'm just as pissed at that price coming from Sony. Sure the tech is a little bit better, but when it has nothing going for it in terms of software or even PS1 playability (the primary reason I even use my PSP) then it certainly isn't worth the price. I'm kind of surprised people are defending such a steep price. I mean I could say the same about the Vita. "How dare Sony charge that much for tech with no software, lackluster features, and expensive memory cards!?" Expensive tech means crap if nothing backs it up.

Games would be great, wonderful even! But since that obviously isn't happening anytime this year, a price drop seems like a better solution. If Sony doesn't do something soon The Vita could fall into a slump it just won't recover from. Remember back in like 2008(?) when it was reported by EDGE that developers were effectively "jumping ship" with the PSP? Didn't we hear in February this year that more developers were leaving the Vita in pursuit of other projects? Sony denied the claim, but now they even admit they're having trouble with Third Party support. It's a bad sign when that sort of trouble is starting this early on.

Games would be a great answer to Vita's problem, much like it was for Nintendo. But the problem is... there isn't anything really worthwhile on the horizon. It seems kind of dumb to wait for these planned big titles when it could be more than a year before they release. Sure a price drop would be like admitting the launch was a blunder and would most likely cause future hassles, but people are eventually forming that opinion on their own regardless of the price drop because nothing exciting is happening with the system.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Scar]

I mean I could say the same about the Vita. "How dare Sony charge that much for tech with no software, lackluster features, and expensive memory cards!?" Expensive tech means crap if nothing backs it up.

You're really missing the point. The Vita's current price is generous. People were expecting it to cost maybe over $300 given what it has in it. I suppose you could argue all day that perhaps such cutting edge hardware wasn't necessary, but that's a story for another day.

idn't we hear in February this year that more developers were leaving the Vita in pursuit of other projects? Sony denied the claim, but now they even admit they're having trouble with Third Party support. It's a bad sign when that sort of trouble is starting this early on.

Given that the Vita launched internationally in February, I seriously doubt developers jumped ship before the console even had a chance to be purchased.

Games would be a great answer to Vita's problem, much like it was for Nintendo. But the problem is... there isn't anything really worthwhile on the horizon. It seems kind of dumb to wait for these planned big titles when it could be more than a year before they release. Sure a price drop would be like admitting the launch was a blunder and would most likely cause future hassles, but people are eventually forming that opinion on their own regardless of the price drop because nothing exciting is happening with the system.

Welp, most of the exciting games are coming out next year. Perhaps the system was released a little too early. Meh, I dunno, the 3DS didn't really get any of its "must-plays" till almost a year after it launched.

[Sami]

Games would be a great answer to Vita's problem, much like it was for Nintendo. But the problem is... there isn't anything really worthwhile on the horizon. It seems kind of dumb to wait for these planned big titles when it could be more than a year before they release. Sure a price drop would be like admitting the launch was a blunder and would most likely cause future hassles, but people are eventually forming that opinion on their own regardless of the price drop because nothing exciting is happening with the system.

You mean like with the 3DS?

[Nintendoga]

You mean like with the 3DS?

What? Both the 3DS and the Vita have some good titles coming out this fall.

[Conando]

Well, 3DS has Paper Mario Sticker Star, Epic Mickey: Power of Illusion, Animal Crossing, and Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon to start with.

[Sami]

I meant when it was as old as the Vita. Around this point in its lifespan, the 3DS didn't really have anything apart from some updated ports, IIRC. The selection was pretty poor on that front.

I have a 3DS, and I'm satisfied with the state of it now, but seriously, to say that Sony needs to step up their game and learn from Nintendo is just silly. They both dropped the ball pretty badly.

[Conando]

Oooooh, my mistake, thought you were saying it STILL doesn't have games. I agree with you on the 3DS' first year, though. It was pretty dire until Mario and Mario Kart came along, then the steady stream of games seemed to start.

[The Kid]

Oh I didn't mean back then the 3DS was great. I was pretty pissed off with the way things were going for awhile, especially the lack of games and the price point. But Nintendo dropped the price during their game drought and sales picked up, whereas The Vita isn't getting that and in addition there are no games on the horizon. A year from now may be a different story.

Given that the Vita launched internationally in February, I seriously doubt developers jumped ship before the console even had a chance to be purchased.

The article was mostly about Japanese developers, since it launched in Japan in December.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Sami]

Oh I didn't mean back then the 3DS was great. I was pretty pissed off with the way things were going for awhile, especially the lack of games and the price point. But Nintendo dropped the price during their game drought and sales picked up, whereas The Vita isn't getting that and in addition there are no games on the horizon. A year from now may be a different story.

Dropping the price isn't magically going to make games appear. It'll only make a shitty situation even shitter for Sony.

$250 for the Vita is generous.

$250 for the 3DS is a scam; hence the lightning-fast price drop.

The Vita needs games. That's it.

[The Kid]

Dropping the price isn't magically going to make games appear. It'll only make a shitty situation even shitter for Sony.

$250 for the Vita is generous.

$250 for the 3DS is a scam; hence the lightning-fast price drop.

The Vita needs games. That's it.

For the hardware cost maybe, but not for the Vita itself. If it doesn't have any games or features currently to back it up, it isn't worth the price. Heck I'd rather pay $250 at this point for a 3DS than I would pay $170 for a Vita.

Before the Price drop the 3DS sold more than the Vita has now. 3.6 million vs. the Vita's 2.0. Dropping the price won't give the Vita games but it will for sure cause a small surge in sales until Sony can actually provide some games.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Sami]

For the hardware cost maybe, but not for the Vita itself. If it doesn't have any games or features currently to back it up, it isn't worth the price. Heck I'd rather pay $250 at this point for a 3DS than I would pay $170 for a Vita.

Before the Price drop the 3DS sold more than the Vita has now. 3.6 million vs. the Vita's 2.0. Dropping the price won't give the Vita games but it will for sure cause a small surge in sales until Sony can actually provide some games.

I don't even know how to rebut this. You're not making any sense.

You're saying that even though the Vita is being offered at a generous price considering the specifications of the hardware, it isn't worth $250 because of its poor software library. Cool beans, I can see where you're coming from with that. You're also saying that the solution to this problem is to lower the price of the hardware even further. ... Wha-?

[Conando]

I'm still not quite sure on that. But, there'd be no point in a price drop until they actually have games people would really want the system for.