Tomb Raider - Out 05/03/2013 for X360/PS3/PC

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

I love Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider III was my favorite. And I was excited about this reboot. Now I'm this close to canceling my pre-order after what I just saw. I mean, who would want to see those horrible scenes? I'm going to be scared to die, because of I'm going to see those brutal deaths! What if I got headshot? Will Lara's head will be blown up to bits? And rape? What are Crystal Dynamics think they're doing?!

 

Laura Croft

 

Lara Croft. LARA Croft!

Edited February 16, 2013 by Ming Ming Shana

[Blue Blood]

you'd think if anything that more people would try to rape her.

Well I guess women do bring it upon themselves...

It's a disgusting portrayal of females. Just flip the tables and imagine this was exactly the same game, but with genders swapped. What do you think now?

Edited February 16, 2013 by Blue Blood

[Clouder]

Possible rape in video games? OH CRAP HERE COME THE SOCCER MOMS!

[Soniman]

Well I guess women do bring it upon themselves...

It's a disgusting portrayal of females. Just flip the tables and imagine this was exactly the same game, but with genders swapped. What do you think now?

 

Really? I can guarantee that it would 100% be played for comedy and no one would take any issue with it at all.

[Clouder]

Really? I can guarantee that it would 100% be played for comedy and no one would take any issue with it at all.

Played for comedy, maybe but still the soccer moms would still find a way to moan about it.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Possible rape in video games? OH CRAP HERE COME THE SOCCER MOMS!

 

...

 

don'tmakeamichaeljacsonjokedon'tmakeamichaeljacksonjoke

[Badnik Mechanic]

I don't particually care about this game, I've not cared about this game's story or particular treatment of any characters other than how it's not the Lara I knew from the PS1 games.

 

However, I heard people were getting upset over Lara being pricked by a spike so I decided to check it out.

 

 

....I.... Really don't understand the reaction here? Nor do I understand the reactions people are having about how 'this doesn't belong in a tomb raider game.'

 

Now I could be wrong here since my memory of the original game isn't quite what it used to be and i've been to bed many many times since the 1990's when I last played Tomb Raider, but... how were the deaths in the original game any less graphic and gory? I seem to remember at school how some people would have conversations about all the ways you could kill Lara and... there were certainly some interesting ones... Crushed, and you hear the bones snap, fall from a terrific hight to which the starts to scream and then you hear her bones snap. Impaled on a spike thats in a spike pit to which she coughs/makes a sickening noise. Electrocuted, hit by a train, drowned (to which she starts to spazm before passing out).

 

Actually just thinking back to the spike impale death... doesn't she not only cough and splutter... but her body also slowly slides down it for a few moments... .. how is that any less graphic or gross than this one?

 

And then theres also the goofy stuff like being turned to Gold. Or being picked up the Abortion by her leg only to be slammed against the floor several times as we hear her bones break.

 

How is any of that less gory or graphic than the water spike death? (Which could be argued that it looks more goofy than it does graphic, just the whole set up of it and even her reaction to the spike). The only difference is the technical abilitys we have now than we did in the 90's.

 

I just don't get why people are so shocked when this isn't exactly a new thing since one of the first ways you can die in the original game is to swan dive onto concrete only to discover Lara has snapped her neck and it's all wobbly looking.

[Pelly <3's U]

OK seriously you guys,

 

Stop. 

 

I'm not even saying this as a mod. I'm saying this as a person. There's not caring about an issue, there's making light about an issue, and then there's going out of your way to make jokes/say the stupidest shit imaginable about something that is truly horrible and and affects many people....probably some you know and care about yourself.

 

Keep your fucking 'lul rape' shit out of this topic, it's not contributing anything but making the members of this board look like complete assholes.

[Clouder]

*raises hands into the air* I confess! I'm sorry! I was making a harmless joke, not meaning to hurt your feelings!

[Swiss]

Rape is something that really shouldn't be touched upon in any form of media and the developers should be ashamed of themselves for selling the game on it, that's all I'm saying there.

 

The spike impalement thing, however, I'm failing to see why that's any worse than the gore/deaths we get in other games/films.

[Solkia]

I'm going to just say that I also think the impalement isn't a big deal.

 

At least it normally wouldn't be if we didn't ALREADY have disgusted views of the game in the first place.

 

EDIT: Then again I find amusement in ripping a person's spine out and beating them with it in Mortal Kombat, so it's not really my place to say.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Solkia-kun

[Sean]

It's repulsive and utterly sick to the core. It's horrible how she grabs onto the pole before dying; that should kill someone right away. You don't just see someone dying; you see a woman going through hell time and time again, each instance made to be the center of attention more than the last, and it reaches out and tears out your fucking heart. It just shows how the developers wanted to exploit this shit for all it's worth.

 

It's not a matter of someone getting stabbed through the head. It's way more than that. This scene fucking disturbed me and I really can not get it out of my head, and I don't consider myself a terribly squeamish person.

[Pelly <3's U]

I think it's the fact that basically so much of the marketing around the game centers around just how brutal it is. I mean I remember one of the early previews on it (in this topic a couple of pages back) was basically just listening to her groan out in pain and suffer. On the first page the picture of her is basically being covered in wounds.

 

Tons of video games have violence, but I think the level of the focus on it....and especially the level of linking it to her suffering/humiliation/breaking down of her is just nor agreeing with many people.

[Clouder]

It's repulsive and utterly sick to the core. It's horrible how she grabs onto the pole before dying; that should kill someone right away. You don't just see someone dying; you see a woman going through hell time and time again, each instance made to be the center of attention more than the last, and it reaches out and tears out your fucking heart. It just shows how the developers wanted to exploit this shit for all it's worth.

 

It's not a matter of someone getting stabbed through the head. It's way more than that. This scene fucking disturbed me and I really can not get it out of my head, and I don't consider myself a terribly squeamish person.

 

 

I think it's the fact that basically so much of the marketing around the game centers around just how brutal it is. I mean I remember one of the early previews on it (in this topic a couple of pages back) was basically just listening to her groan out in pain and suffer. On the first page the picture of her is basically being covered in wounds.

 

Tons of video games have violence, but I think the level of the focus on it....and especially the level of linking it to her suffering/humiliation/breaking down of her is just nor agreeing with many people.

That's it. I am not watching any videos of it!

It should be called: "Lara Croft Abuse: The Game".

[Chaos Warp]

Rape is something that really shouldn't be touched upon in any form of media and the developers should be ashamed of themselves for selling the game on it, that's all I'm saying there.

Well, maybe not touched upon EVER, but it should had to be handled with extreme tact for it to be not extremely offensive and terrible. 

 

 

The spike impalement thing, however, I'm failing to see why that's any worse than the gore/deaths we get in other games/films.

I do agree with this though. 

[Nintendoga]

I can't sit in the background on this anymore, it's just too aggravating

In case you haven't noticed, the entire internet has been talking about the flaws of this game well long before the alleged "rape" scene.
 

Half Bullshit. Yes, in a majority of games, movies, tv shows, for almost half a century  women have mainly been treated as sex symbols. I won't argue with that, as there's lots of times in shows where I just roll my eyes or sigh in annoyance whenever something is using a women's sex status as it's main selling feature.

But it's nowhere near as bad as you put it to be. You put it off as if almost everything in media today that involves women are nothing but Tits, Ass, and cockteasing while portraying themselves as sluts. Hell no. In fact, I dare say woman's roles are getting stronger in most media today. Shows that revolve around Women not put in a bad spotlight, but as the protagonist that must overcome a problem  or some shit. Games like Portal that put women in the spotlight as a strong spirited person who's willing to overcome any challenge, or even as well-written good likeable villains.

But I'm not here to talk about Feminism. I cannot fathom how this topic has changed from "Tomb Raider 2013's flaws" to "How women are treated in the media and anyone else who says otherwise can shut up." Please by all means, when you  or somebody else replies back, please if you would be so kind as to give me some examples that prove that women's roles in media nowadays is shit. I remember that article you once showed me about Women in media today, I promised to read it that night and get back to you the next day, but honestly I couldn't help but laugh at how pathetic that Article was.

(I'll probably edit this later to post a link or put it in what is inevitable going to be another post in this topic sometime tonight)

The article's examples were laughable, calling one-episode characters of some shows sluts and such, without even acknowledging the fact that most of that show's cast are well-written Women that the audience likes not for her body, but personality. And the killing joke, was at the bottom how the author herself called herself a "crazy feminist bitch" in her post editorial. You cannot honestly believe me to take what seems to be a joke article as something serious can you?

 

I don't think you or anybody else are being idiots, however I do think that you are pushing the line of acting like a child with a tantrum. How dare you tell us to fuck off, (and from a mod no less). We are not at all ignoring the situation or dismissing it. You think people like me or Shadzter (sorry for calling you out bro)

actually don't care about the gore or death or other flaws in this game? Of course we do, or rather to speak for myself, I do. Nobody in this topic to my knowledge however, has said "Oh she gets raped? Oh well..." or "It's just a rape scene guys, chillax". 

We have already talked about the alleged "rape" scene. We have already talked about how it could have been handled better, how the PR shouldn't have said such things, we have come to terms that (even though there is no cases of rape at all in this game,) the scene in general is not a good justification for having to force Lara to kill her first human. We have passed that already, yet whenever something comes up in this game it's as if you see it as a scapegoat to bring up the "rape" scene.
 

Except they are changing? Maybe if you took Feminist ideals and instead of just applying it to this game only, compare it to the various media in whole, you'd see that things are most definitely changing. If you think it's going to be an over-night thing instead of a couple year process, then you are acting delusional.

But actually, I'm very curious. All I've ever heard you talk about is how nothing will change and how bad women are being treated in the industries. But why not instead of complaining about it, you actually try and do something about it. What is your solution to this? How could we, the members of SSMB, try and at help strive away from this problem. Even if it won't work, at least we tried.

 

 

Again, I

 

 

Here I was under the impression you were a TR fan. That has me to bring up the question, if Lara was a man, would you even be in this topic? Nathan Drake, Kratos, and Link all get down and hurt every single game, yet nobody bats an eye. But Lara isn't allowed to get hurt? No actually disregard that statement, as someone will probably wrap my words around another pole and say something I never even intended to.

This game looks borderline torture. We all know that already, no use trying to hide or defend that. But what I'm asking you is do you really hate this game because of the gore, death, and other shit going on? Or do you just hate it simply because the main character going through this is a girl? Why exactly do you hate this game, is it the game itself or the ideology and concept behind the game?

 

Wake up. This is the real world. Whether or not your opinions and views are right or wrong, people will tell you that they do not matter. Tough shit though, we all have gone through this before, we all have gotten over it. Being a mod does not excuse one's views or opinion on the matter. You have to be the bigger man and have confidence on your opinion instead of getting angry like a child would when someone tells you that you are wrong.

(And by all means, I am not telling you that you are wrong. I honestly don't care about your opinion or ideals on this matter, as you probably don't mine. But I will never tell somebody that their view does not matter, no matter how much I disagree with it.)

 

I'm sorry everybody for taking this topic even more off point then it already was. If there's anything that doesn't make sense or something, tell me about it. The new quote system is confusing for me.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Nintendoga

[Badnik Mechanic]

It's repulsive and utterly sick to the core. It's horrible how she grabs onto the pole before dying; that should kill someone right away.

 

So we should assume from that then that you have the exact same stance on the death at 1:47. From the original game.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9BmH7mHFqs

 

It's almost the exact same death, except she's not in water and it's incredibly dated by todays standards, but back in the 90's this was certainly considered very realistic, and in that video, I'm quite sure that the edit comes before the game cuts away and re-loads the game, you're actually left looking at her slowly sinkinking body for a while.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

I don't particually care about this game, I've not cared about this game's story or particular treatment of any characters other than how it's not the Lara I knew from the PS1 games.

 

However, I heard people were getting upset over Lara being pricked by a spike so I decided to check it out.

 

 

....I.... Really don't understand the reaction here? Nor do I understand the reactions people are having about how 'this doesn't belong in a tomb raider game.'

 

Now I could be wrong here since my memory of the original game isn't quite what it used to be and i've been to bed many many times since the 1990's when I last played Tomb Raider, but... how were the deaths in the original game any less graphic and gory? I seem to remember at school how some people would have conversations about all the ways you could kill Lara and... there were certainly some interesting ones... Crushed, and you hear the bones snap, fall from a terrific hight to which the starts to scream and then you hear her bones snap. Impaled on a spike thats in a spike pit to which she coughs/makes a sickening noise. Electrocuted, hit by a train, drowned (to which she starts to spazm before passing out).

 

Actually just thinking back to the spike impale death... doesn't she not only cough and splutter... but her body also slowly slides down it for a few moments... .. how is that any less graphic or gross than this one?

 

And then theres also the goofy stuff like being turned to Gold. Or being picked up the Abortion by her leg only to be slammed against the floor several times as we hear her bones break.

 

How is any of that less gory or graphic than the water spike death? (Which could be argued that it looks more goofy than it does graphic, just the whole set up of it and even her reaction to the spike). The only difference is the technical abilitys we have now than we did in the 90's.

 

I just don't get why people are so shocked when this isn't exactly a new thing since one of the first ways you can die in the original game is to swan dive onto concrete only to discover Lara has snapped her neck and it's all wobbly looking.

 

What's new compared to those old games is now they have now added cutscenes in to the game that we have to watch, and those cutscenes were nothing but torture. I don't want to watch Lara (and her friend) get brutally hurt and go through all that pain.

[Solkia]

Well...

 

I can at least agree that the new quote system is a pain in the ass.

[Clouder]

I just watched the impalement preview and literally broke down crying. That kind of gore is just unnecessary.

[Swiss]

I'll admit to not having followed this game very much at all (it disinterested me right from the beginning, then eventually just disgusted me) so I can't speak for the overall power of her suffering...I was just saying that one spike impalement had much less of an effect on me when compared to something like 

while being ripped in two by the Hive Mind at the end of the first Dead Space. That particular death goes on for a solid 10 seconds or so and is one of the most gruesome things I've seen/heard in a game. All I'm saying is this one scene as a standalone thing is really not bad when you compare it to a lot of stuff out there in other films/games. Exaggeration comes into it somewhere, but that's another subject entirely.

 

Add this to the seemingly countless list of horrible things the developers are using to sell the game and yeah, I'll agree that it's pretty bad. How they all sleep at night, I'll never know.

[Badnik Mechanic]

What's new compared to those old games is now they have now added cutscenes in to the game that we have to watch, and those cutscenes were nothing but torture. I don't want to watch Lara (and her friend) get brutally hurt and go through all that pain.

 

But it's not a cut scene, the latest thing people are getting angry over is a death scene which is very similar to a death scene that was in the original game.

 

If you don't like the abuse Lara goes through then fine. But people are now getting angry over a death sequence because it's too gory and graphic. Yet the original game original game and just about every one of the PS1 games had death sequences which were for their time gory and graphic.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

But it's not a cut scene, the latest thing people are getting angry over is a death scene which is very similar to a death scene that was in the original game.

 

If you don't like the abuse Lara goes through then fine. But lets not forget that the original game and just about every one of the PS1 games had death sequences which were for their time gory and graphic.

 

Yeah I was looking at the overall picture, not just that particular death scene. I don't like seeing one of my favorite video game characters getting tortured/abused like that. *sigh* It's a real shame because, I was looking forward to this game avoiding all spoilers. =/

[turbojet]

Yeah I was looking at the overall picture, not just that particular death scene. I don't like seeing one of my favorite video game characters getting tortured/abused like that. *sigh* It's a real shame because, I was looking forward to this game avoiding all spoilers. =/

Yeah, survival horror is not for you.

[Sean]

At Nintendoga,

About this being accurate to how women are presented, I stand by what I said. Women are treated as a spectacle and that scene fits the damn bill. We want Lara to survive but at the same time also go through as much hell as possible because I guess something something about it contributing to her development blah de blah. And no, this would not be the same at all had this game's main character been male. There's no subconscious desire to see men go through suffering as a means of making them vulnerable; we want to see them go through that because if they survive, that just makes them tough manly men and shows how badass they can be !! and if they die then no big deal, doesn't affect us emotionally like the death of a woman would. This is entirely how the audience is expected to react.

I am acting extremely passionate in this topic because this is an issue I care about deeply, even if I'm not a woman and thus am not affected by it in a direct way. I am not the victim here, but that doesn't mean I am in no position to criticize what I'm seeing. The only part of my previous posts that I could revise is the part about people not caring about these issues. It's still their choice, and part of it came from the heat of the moment. But telling us that we are overreacting about the whole thing still pisses me off and those people can kindly knock that bullshit off, because it's not helping matters.
 

We have passed that already, yet whenever something comes up in this game it's as if you see it as a scapegoat to bring up the "rape" scene.

I also find it very ironic how you say this yet the rape scene has not only been brought up in recent posts (except for Pelly's where she told you guys to stop doing it), but also that it's nowhere near the only issue people have with this game. Stop with the generalizations.

And the reason why I feel that nothing will be changed is because in the game industry, women gamers are treated as a minority and that their views don't matter. It's covered pretty well in the "Dear internet: grow up" topic, far better than I ever can by myself. When we have people saying that our views don't matter, that we shouldn't be as affected by this as we are now, and that ultimately, we're overblowing this as something it isn't, then yeah, that really gives me the impression that nothing will change.

 

I really do believe that your attitude is part of the problem here, especially when you say this topic turning into a feminism discussion is in any way derailing it.

 

No, I'm not going be playing nice about this. This is an issue that seriously matters to me and the fact that people are trying to downplay this as "baw rape" just boils my blood. I respect when people simply don't want to deal with these issues, so I admit that I should not have said "It's wrong for people to not care about this." But turning around and making a mockery of the other side is fucking low.