Tomb Raider - Out 05/03/2013 for X360/PS3/PC

[Stacy]

>positive things about this game

 

That's rich coming from someone called George Lucas!

 

Seriously the vibes in this thread are killing my excitement for this game.

 

Tomb Raider was one of few games I had the courage to play as a kid. Lara was and is a Heroine to me. Yes she has had shit marketing over the years and it is shame that they have screwed up again with it. But I want to look past that and be positive.

Edited February 16, 2013 by BW199148

[Emmett L. Brown]

That's rich coming from someone called George Lucas!

 

Seriously the vibes in this thread are killing my excitement for this game.

 

Tomb Raider was one of few games I had the courage to play as a kid. Lara was and is a Heroine to me. Yes she has shit marketing over the years and it is shame that they have screwed up again with it, But I want to look past that and be positive.

Well, when there's a character you love that gets reimagined in a lot of different ways, I totally understand wanting to see them appreciated, but at the same time ya gotta hold them to a certain standard. I love Batman, but I hate Frank Miller's version of the character. I love Samus Aran, but I hate Other M's version of the character. I love Lara Croft...but I haven't yet decided how I feel about this version of her character.

 

Still, even if this characterisation turns out to be jaw-droppingly fantastic, the PR and direction are still very suspect.

[Stacy]

Well, when there's a character you love that gets reimagined in a lot of different ways, I totally understand wanting to see them appreciated, but at the same time ya gotta hold them to a certain standard. I love Batman, but I hate Frank Miller's version of the character. I love Samus Aran, but I hate Other M's version of the character. I love Lara Croft...but I haven't yet decided how I feel about this version of her character.

 

Still, even if this characterisation turns out to be jaw-droppingly fantastic, the PR and direction are still very suspect.

 

Look I haven't got a problem with that. I just want focus on something positive about this game. Every time I come into this thread and a lot of people posting usually it is something negative. I wouldn't mind if there was some positive to balance it out though. Its the same with the DMC thread, I posted for a while, gave up, lurked a bit and gave up because I found the topic was so negative.

 

Every time I come into this thread someone finds something negative and they probably weren't going to buy it anyway.

 

It comes across as having debate for the sake of having a debate. 

[MamboCat]

I probably was going to buy it.... I like the old TR games and I liked the last rebooted series. Sure they were a little on the easy side but I still liked that Crystal Dynamics' Lara was Lara.

 

.... but with this one, with everything new I find out, I doubt I will actually buy it...

 

Edit: Finally watched that vid to the end... where

Lara gets on the chopper, realises there are no medical supplies there (Inventory wheel, select Medipack... duh!

) and says "Shit!"

 

That seals it for me. This game is Tomb Raider's Shadow the Hedgehog. :B

Edited February 16, 2013 by MamboCat

[Tori Himemiya]

*Crow is trying to dodge every landmine around*

So uhhhh... I'm looking forward to the new Tomb Raider game despite the harsh violence that happens to Lara.

"Y U SICK BASTARD!?" might be your first response to this, but let me explain.

Lara goes through way too much shit in the game and she has to survive somehow. This really reminded me of a fairly obscure survival horror game I like to mention a lot, Haunting Ground. In that game you play as a girl who is weak by herself and she's stuck in a castle filled with crazy murderous stalkers. Her only way of defense is by her canine pal Hewie. But the shit she goes through is quite crazy. Everyone wants her for some reason and its that they want her dead and possibly raped. There's even some questionable deaths that do happen off screen thankful but I digress.

The reason why I really liked Haunting Ground, besides the homicidal maid, is the fact that Fiona is a weak girl with little defenses. I really wanted to help her get out of that castle as soon as she can, and with hopefully a happy ending. I mean who wouldn't want to carry someone like her out of the castle with her dog?

The same thing is also the case with Tomb Raider. I wanna see where Lara goes and help her avoid some nasty deaths and try to get her a happy ending in the end.

Is there is a happy ending. ;A;

Edited February 16, 2013 by Crow the BOOLET

[Your Vest Friend]

I think you just hit the "Women in video games are weak and need help to be safe" landmine, Crow.

[Autosaver]

Saw: Tomb Raider

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, the fact that everyone-including the devs- are comparing Lara Croft of all people to some weak little girl that needs protecting and rescuing from the audience, while male protagonists in similar situations escape this kind of classification is, like, one of the main reasons people are pissed off.

[Sean]

And before anyone questions that mentality, just look at nearly every single horror movie ever made.

 

If you've ever noticed that the "final girl" is vastly more common and widespread than a "final dude," then you've seen how audiences and writers alike perceive women in danger differently than men in danger. And I'm tired when people who don't agree try to bring up "well replace the girl with a guy and you wouldn't react the same, that just proves you're only up in arms because it's a female," as if it's meant to be a counter-point.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Here's a thing. The initial info is all about Lara being weak and needing protection and yadda-yadda-yadda. But on the other hand, there's a list of achievements that include killing an awful lot of people with various firearms. So maybe this wonky characterisation only refers to the beginning of the game, with the meat of the content being Lara...well, being Lara Croft.

 

Not that killing lots of things is all there is to Lara Croft, but I'm not seeing the person described in the previews so far as the kind of person who succesfully goes one-woman army on the bad guys. So maybe we're only seeing a small part of the big picture.

 

No defense for the camera-hugging impalement, though.

[Jacky]

I think it really is just bad PR really that hurt this game, i mean i really love the idea of putting a hero through their darkest hour and seeing them fall and pick themselves up again etc. but the fact that we somehow can't relate to character like that who just happens to be female and according to a random PR guy, "want to protect her" IS rather dumb, I don't want to protect her, I want to be her, see her rise into a fucking badass who kills a bunch of bad guys and explores and shit. With that unfortunate context I think it's somewhat understandable how it's easy to see that death as some sort of fetishistic fantasy  unintentionally. Like it was said before, i'm sure the many many different employees inside of Crystal Dynamics aren't actually disgusting sexist pigs, and it's really bad phrasing, had they never said anything about "protecting" her i'd doubt they're be any real controversy over stuff like a death scene's implications. 


now for the gameplay itself however, i dig it, Game looks really great and automatic fluid cover sounds good, the idea of adding multiple pathways to provide players more play options too sounds interesting as well, might pick this up later, if reviews are positive enough for it. 


(also I personally found the impalement death badass and so over the top and will most likely find myself suciding on purpose like i do in other games with radicool deaths )

[Lady Soniko]

Yeah, the fact that everyone-including the devs- are comparing Lara Croft of all people to some weak little girl that needs protecting and rescuing from the audience, while male protagonists in similar situations escape this kind of classification is, like, one of the main reasons people are pissed off.

 

 

Bullshit.

 

Was Lara a hardened survivalist right from the get go? No, every protagonist started out as an inexperienced newbie, male protagonists also, so playing the "The weak little girl who needs protecting" argument is pointless, from what I've seen of the game so far, she doesn't look weak at all when she's getting shit done like hunting and climbing shit.

 

Again, another example of a weak MALE Protagonist is Jason Brody from Far Cry 3, you start out as an egotistic party frat boy, but you get thrown into a tropical island with pirates and drug lords, your Older Brother is killed in front of you, and you're hunted like a dog when the main enemy Vaas gives you a chance to escape before he and his men Pursue you with guns & guard dogs, Jason can't even hold or shoot a fucking gun from the get go, he's a scaredy cat who has to man the fuck up to rescue his friends and girlfriend whilst learning the ways of the warrior, by end game your a badass who can take on anything, I feel this will be the same case here.

[Nepenthe]

We're not talking about mere inexperience and the brutality of surviving in a jungle. We're talking about how the audience is expected to react to two different characters placed in similar life-or-death situations, with the only difference between them being their gender. Was Jason ever largely compared to not only by the people who experienced the games, but by the devs themselves, as some mewling little boy with whom the audience would need to nurture through gameplay so he could be safe, e.g., digital white-knighting? If this narrative was largely absent from the game's news cycle and reception, then you've thoroughly missed the point and failed to recognize the distinction because that's exactly how Lara's been being treated. There's not only statements on record of this, but a poster who responded a few notches above the post you quoted directly compared Lara to this stereotype, so don't act as if the "weak female" argument is somehow irrelevant.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Nepenthe

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay, let me try and simplify the points so that people can get a better understanding of this:

 

Male character in trouble - "Come on dude! Be a man and walk it off. Then you can call yourself a badass."

 

Female character in trouble - "OMG! She's in trouble. Somebody help her!"

 

Audiences wouldn't think the reverse for the genders very often, which is the problem (or part of it). Although Lara Croft is known to a badass in video games, the scenes are doing more of the latter to those who are finding this game a turn-off. 

 

I know we have a lot of action girls in media like cartoons and games, but for all that progress those attitudes are still present despite that.

And I'm tired when people who don't agree try to bring up "well replace the girl with a guy and you wouldn't react the same, that just proves you're only up in arms because it's a female," as if it's meant to be a counter-point.

Well, to be fair. Male disposability IS a good counterpoint...were it not for glorifying the dangers said character would have to go through in the power fantasy to be a badass as a cool thing to do.

 

Not exactly something those who disagree are pointing out, though it would still shoot them in the foot if they did.

 

Just figured I'd add some understanding to it.

Edited February 16, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Nepenthe]

Okay, let me try and simplify the points so that people can get a better understanding of this:

 

Male character in trouble - "Come on dude! Be a man and walk it off. Then you can call yourself a badass."

 

Female character in trouble - "OMG! She's in trouble. Somebody help her!"

 

Audiences wouldn't think the reverse for the genders very often, which is the problem (or part of it). Although Lara Croft is known to a badass in video games, the scenes are doing more of the latter to those who are finding this game a turn-off. 

 

I'm quoting this because you understand some people's contentions with the game and have also simplified them in a way that I feel would be easy for those who are confused or reactionary to be able to parse. Bravo.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Nepenthe

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, I wanted this to be less of a repeat of what happened earlier in the topic when I misunderstood and was being reactionary myself. Although whether the dissenters see the point or not is up to them catching onto it.

[Kuzu]

I don't plan on getting apart of his argument, but from what I understand; people are upset that this game is seemingly playing off Lara's suffering for the sake of entertainment and/or emotional value, am I right? Just trying to keep up

[Conando]

Yeah, you've got it. Behind that is that that's viewed as a typically misogynistic theme in the media. A woman's suffering is more entertaining due to creating a greater emotional response because, men feel the need to protect an endangered woman. 

Edited February 17, 2013 by Wreck-It Ralph

[Nintendoga]

First Review by NGmaster, Embargo lifts on 25th so expect more reviews to come next week


 

Tomb Raider has received its first review, courtesy of this month’s issue of GamesMaster.

Crystal Dynamics’ latest earned a 90% score. The magazine had high praise for Tomb Raider’s visuals – the title was given a 95% rating in the category. Players can look forward to 10-15 hours for the main story, though GamesMaster notes that it’ll take 20 to fully explore the island. The magazine also enjoyed the “vivid” hubs and final third of the game “with its spectacular bombast”.

GamesMaster wished Tomb Raider included more side tombs, but the ones present in the game are a joy to discover. For those wondering: there aren’t many quick time events.
 

GamesMaster sums up:

“Sitting back exhausted we were left with just one question dribbling forth from our gaping jaws. How on earth are they going to top this in the sequel? Because of one thing there can be no doubt. Lara is back.”

Look out for a whole slew of Tomb Raider reviews early next week. Square Enix will be ending the game’s embargo on Monday – over a week before the game launches.

Thanks to joclo for the tip.

Edit: Oh shit, just saw "Unbiased Reviews" on the magazine cover.
LMFAO
 

Edited February 23, 2013 by Nintendoga

[Autosaver]

I guess we'll be seeing tons of 9/10's and 8/10's down the road then. Possibly GOTY 2013.

[Blue Blood]

Ugh, that's so disappointing.

 

I've just been watching some footage of the game actually, and it certainly doesn't look like a bad game. It's just bothers me so that this isn't Tomb Raider. At all. We've got characters saying "this is so fucked up" and Lara saying "shit" when she finds an empty bottle of pain killers. The series has always been a mixture of mildly serious and highly flamboyant, with different games teetering to different ends of the scale. This though throws every thing about Tomb Raider out the window and replaces it with a dark, gritty and frankly boring world that I couldn't distinguish from any other game of the same genre on the market.

 

Lara in particular is absolutely nothing like her former self. You can try to fob me off with an origins story as much as you want, but she doesn't have a semblance of her character or appearance from past games. It's a total rewrite.

 

This is not Tomb Raider. It's a completely different series under the same name. And that will continue to be my biggest problem with this game above all else. It's everything I don't like about modern games.

[Gatestormer]

I attended a lecture earlier this week from the game's writer, Rhianna Pratchett at my University and was given an insight into this game's development and how the story was written. The lecture proved to be very interesting and as a result, I'm much more interested in this game than I have been before, I'm now really looking forward to it. 

[Candescence]

Ugh, that's so disappointing.

 

I've just been watching some footage of the game actually, and it certainly doesn't look like a bad game. It's just bothers me so that this isn't Tomb Raider. At all. We've got characters saying "this is so fucked up" and Lara saying "shit" when she finds an empty bottle of pain killers. The series has always been a mixture of mildly serious and highly flamboyant, with different games teetering to different ends of the scale. This though throws every thing about Tomb Raider out the window and replaces it with a dark, gritty and frankly boring world that I couldn't distinguish from any other game of the same genre on the market.

 

Lara in particular is absolutely nothing like her former self. You can try to fob me off with an origins story as much as you want, but she doesn't have a semblance of her character or appearance from past games. It's a total rewrite.

 

This is not Tomb Raider. It's a completely different series under the same name. And that will continue to be my biggest problem with this game above all else. It's everything I don't like about modern games.

First it happened to Castlevania with Lords of Shadow (which basically ripped off God of War and Shadow of the Colossus wholesale) and then with DmC: Devil May Cry, now this. It irritates me how good franchises are being 'rebooted' by throwing out all the thematic content that made them great in a narrative sense.

[Vec]

I attended a lecture earlier this week from the game's writer, Rhianna Pratchett at my University and was given an insight into this game's development and how the story was written. The lecture proved to be very interesting and as a result, I'm much more interested in this game than I have been before, I'm now really looking forward to it. 

Did someone bring the subject that was brought here during her lecture?

Edited February 24, 2013 by Polar Vec

[turbojet]

First it happened to Castlevania with Lords of Shadow (which basically ripped off God of War and Shadow of the Colossus wholesale) and then with DmC: Devil May Cry, now this. It irritates me how good franchises are being 'rebooted' by throwing out all the thematic content that made them great in a narrative sense.

I don't know. The difference between DmC and this are far and few in between since DmC creators basically told the previous fanbase to fuck off and play the game. As far as I can tell, Rhianna has been pretty civil and acknowledged fan complaints about the game while still creating their ideal game. Although I can see why the fanbase is pissed and should be pissed(should have been a new IP), Square Enix didn't insult the previous fans and from what I've seen, did some pretty interesting stuff besides the torture porn and stuff. I mean the sandbox is pretty interactive, there is enough variances in the game that could make it interesting if you are a new fan, and the survival stuff could be fun(I mean the hunting and shit, not the sexist bullshit).

 

What made DmC so fucking hypocritical was that the franchise was born because Capcom's previous respect to the themes of their IPs. As some people may know, Devil May Cry was originally supposed to be Resident Evil 4. Capcom heads saw what Kamiya was making and respected Resident Evil enough to realize that it played nothing like the previous Resident Evils, but they were inventive enough to make a separate IP. If Capcom had the same initiative as they did back then, DmC(and many of the current installments of their franchises apparently) would have been a different IP. Instead they decided to cash in on the Devil May Cry name and fuck with the universe.

 

Tomb Raider? Lara Croft that looks like Lara Croft? Check. Does she act like Lara Croft? No...but okay some people may see that as a problem, I kind of see it as a non-issue because the previous Lara Croft was a tabula rosa, but whatever. Is there action adventure? Check...of the survival horror variety, but yeah this is iffy. Does she dual wield pistols? Haven't seen it yet. Is there platforming and puzzles and shit? Yes although the platforming is hand holding. Is there an automatic one button based cover system unlike the previous games? I'm not sure. Yeah, there is a cover system, but it seems to be of the Metal Gear Solid variety where the player has to forcibly press against the wall instead of pressing A or some shit. Acrobatics and Gymnastics? No. This blows.

 

Recounting all of this, you can that it at least resembles Tomb Raider in a Uncharted meets Dead Space on Earth way. Yeah, fuck it. It is a different game and Square Enix should have made a different fucking IP.