Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[The-Master-Board]

If what I've heard is correct, don't expect to see Renae taking up art duties for the comic anytime soon. She says she doesn't have any issues under her pencil planned.

EDIT: Also, Miko? Picchi? You act as if I give a rat's ass about Sally in your arguement, but if I had my way, she'd be dead as a doornail three times over now. XD

So they're just gonna tease us like that, by showing us how great the comic can be then dropping it back to so-so ness? Seriously Archie, if you're not going to have great covers at least have a great artist do the inside art....pfft this annoys me.

[Picchi]

Also, Miko? Picchi? You act as if I give a rat's ass about Sally in your arguement, but if I had my way, she'd be dead as a doornail three times over now. XD

Er..I wasn't talking to you. I was replying to Adamis' comment.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Picchi

[Toby]

So they're just gonna tease us like that, by showing us how great the comic can be then dropping it back to so-so ness? Seriously Archie, if you're not going to have great covers at least have a great artist do the inside art....pfft this annoys me.

That would be a matter of opinion, as I could not stand her art, and think Yardley's better by a hundred fold, but to each their own. XD

[Er..I wasn't talking to you. I was reffering to Adamis' comment.

Ooof! My mistake~ I thought you were still talking to me! LOL ^^;

Edited April 2, 2009 by Toby Barrett

[Fox Gungrave]

So they're just gonna tease us like that, by showing us how great the comic can be then dropping it back to so-so ness? Seriously Archie, if you're not going to have great covers at least have a great artist do the inside art....pfft this annoys me.

It reminds me the first time I've discovered Archie Comics (long time after Fleetway) and saw the amazing cover art by SPAZ and then the the real content. AC knows how to force us to see inside the pages.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I don't personally think that Mina is useless just because the writers failed to mine her potential over the course of the last decade or so. Like I said, Amy and Shadow used to be near useless background characters, but now they're major players.

I mean, it's not like Tommy Turtle where he got turned into a Transformer because no one knew what to do with him.

(Though, oddly, Minerva was the name of a Transformer in Japan...)

Uh, where was I? Right, Mina.

I think if Ian could flesh out Blaze the way he did in a single issue of Sonic Universe, than he could find a way to incorporate Mina into the story in a way that she isn't useless. I know he won't do it for whatever reason, perhaps personal preference or under Mike's orders, but I'm just saying that I think, hypothetically, it could work.

[KittyNakajima]

You know that Mina gave up the heroic side of life? She's a singer now.

Miko, on every forum I saw you, you always sounded like a very non-opened, stubborn person, always trying to find a little bad point about X character (especially Sally) and acting like you knew better than the people working on the comic how to write the characters.

^THIS. Finally, someone actually came out and said it point blank. He's right - I've seen how you post on other forums as well and you only really seem to give a crap when it comes to arguing/debating/ranting about particular characters or the comics in general. No where else have I ever seen you place as much passion as you do to these particular topics, which I have to say is a bit much. I'll just add on that you're entitled to like what you like and have an opinion, but when you cram the same obssessive ranting/bantering about your gripes with the comic(s) and the characters, well...yeah. It gets tired quick, especially if you're trying to get them to understand where you're coming from and respect it.

But to get back on topic, and furthermore, the subject of Mina, I'd have to say that I doubt there's much Ian or any other writer can do to make her more of a prominent figure in the comics. The super speed is constantly played down in lew of her singing ability and career, so that's probably the main reason she won't be popping up for anytime soon. Secondly, if she's focusing on that, I doubt any mention of her work as a tactician for the FF would be of much merit as she's constantly away performing or just practicing/making music in general. I'm pretty sure that being a tactician would require a fair amount of familiarity with the current matters at hand, so if she's away all the time, how would she be able to competently do that?

That's my whole take on that I guess. I really don't see it happening, unless you want to prove to me why it could maybe just kinda happen beyond a shadow of an unquestionable doubt.

Edited April 2, 2009 by KittyNakajima

[Blazey Firekitty]

While we're on the subject of Archie exclusive characters...I never liked how Fiona turned into a one-dimensional psychopath under Ian's pen. Well, for a time, at least. I've lightened up about it somewhat since in the recent Anti-Mobius arc, it was revealed that she is the way she is due to trauma and fear of trusting others. So, at least she's not just some Harley Quinn knock off anymore.;;

[Sean]

Fiona wasn't even a real character when she debuted. She never had any potential to begin with; the fact that she was even "brought back" after Tails's mini-story was pretty surprising to me.

[Picchi]

^THIS. Finally, someone actually came out and said it point blank. He's right - I've seen how you post on other forums as well and you only really seem to give a crap when it comes to arguing/debating/ranting about particular characters or the comics in general. No where else have I ever seen you place as much passion as you do to these particular topics, which I have to say is a bit much. I'll just add on that you're entitled to like what you like and have an opinion, but when you cram the same obssessive ranting/bantering about your gripes with the comic(s) and the characters, well...yeah. It gets tired quick

How is this only a "Miko" issue, though? Plenty of people have been and still are ranting about not liking the direction of the comics or their handeling of certain characters. Where were you bitching about the Sally fans who made countless topics dedicated to whining about her being potrayed "OOC" after the slap or when she left the FFs? Or how about when people complained the book was becoming too much like a soap opera or when people were talking bad about Ken and Karl or their work all the time?

Ooh, but suddenly when Ian comes and you get enough of the stuff you want, you want to complain that Miko's gripes with the comic get "tired quick". Kitty, perhaps you like the direction of the book, and you therefore don't want to hear what Miko has to say, but that's all it is. Your prefference. Your "opinion". What right do you have to talk down to her or anyone else like that, especially when you yourself are a hypocrite?

especially if you're trying to get them to understand where you're coming from and respect it.

I don't think you don't even read people's posts to try to "understand" anyway. For instance, you argue with Miko about Mina, bringing up a bunch of points I already responded to and yet you completely ignored what I said.

Fiona wasn't even a real character when she debuted. She never had any potential to begin with; the fact that she was even "brought back" after Tails's mini-story was pretty surprising to me.

Still, if there was anything established about the real Fiona it was that she hated treacherous guys like Scourge. I don't give a crap whether or not Ian thought she'd be more interesting as a villian, its OOC for her to have dated him in the first place. If he wanted to make her an antagonist he should've just developed her to partner with Nic again.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Picchi

[KittyNakajima]

How is this only a "Miko" issue, though? Plenty of people have been and still are ranting about not liking the direction of the comics or their handeling of certain characters. Where were you bitching about the Sally fans who made countless topics dedicated to whining about her being potrayed "OOC" after the slap or when she left the FFs? Or how about when people complained the book was becoming too much like a soap opera or when people were talking bad about Ken and Karl or their work all the time?

Ooh, but suddenly when Ian comes and you get enough of the stuff you want, you want to complain that Miko's gripes with the comic get "tired quick". Kitty, perhaps you like the direction of the book, and you therefore don't want to hear what Miko has to say, but that's all it is. Your prefference. Your "opinion". What right do you have to talk down to her or anyone else like that, especially when you yourself are a hypocrite?

I don't think you don't even read people's posts to try to "understand" anyway. For instance, you argue with Miko about Mina, bringing up a bunch of points I already responded to and yet you completely ignored what I said.

Still, if there was anything established about the real Fiona it was that she hated treacherous guys like Scourge. I don't give a crap whether or not Ian thought she'd be more interesting as a villian, its OOC for her to have dated him in the first place. If he wanted to make her an antagonist he should've just developed her to partner with Nic again.

Alright, hate to bypass your lovely post, but if you were paying attention, I was simply agreeing with Adamis' statement and merely stating what I have seen of your sister over the past couple of years. She does nothing but rant rant rant about that one particular character, or if she's not, she either on Ian's forum asking the same type of BAWW in the threads where Ian wants to hear feedback from the fans. She's either finding some intricate, mundane way to ask the same exact thing. I'm sorry to say that I call it like I see it, and given that I've merely observed this over a gradual period of time , I think I'm within my right to state that. 4-5 years of long, winded rants on dA, to anti-hate/support character x character clubs/forums kinda doesn't help either.

Secondly, I appreciate the comic for artistic value only. That alone should tell you something about how I feel about the writing, both past and present. I pay attention to it when I can, and if I do, it's mostly for the art. Plain and simple. I admire pencillers like J.Axer, Dawn Best, Steve Butler, and Tracy Yardley! The storyline isn't really my cup of tea, and, if I felt that both elements (art and story) were lacking, I simply don't read/buy the issue. The comic either peaks my interest or it doesn't. Simple as that.

Once again, I was only really interested in agreeing with Adamis on what has actually been an observation. Though apparently it must be more than a mere observation on my part if you wish to accept my agreement with his statement as a consensus of sorts.

Edited April 3, 2009 by KittyNakajima

[Miko]

^THIS. Finally, someone actually came out and said it point blank.

You could at the very least respond to my response to him instead of acting as though his point is undisputed..

He's right - I've seen how you post on other forums as well and you only really seem to give a crap when it comes to arguing/debating/ranting about particular characters or the comics in general.

Discussing characters, status quos, rouges galleries, at the very least I can apply what I learn to my own writing. I think characters are...important to the story, and some characters have greater impacts to the story and are hence talked about more by me. But that goes for the fandom in general. Most people who read the comics will talk more about Sally Acorn Bunnie and Antoine then they will perhaps Mighty and Ray. But you'd be very mistaken to beleive I've not thoroughly discussed at the very least the entire main cast ...and their parents.

P.S: So I talk about the comics in general. So what?

No where else have I ever seen you place as much passion as you do to these particular topics, which I have to say is a bit much.

Maybe because most other topics I find...boring? You can think it a bit much if you want, but like I've said I don't apply what I learn because it's Sonic. I find it fun, and it helps me assess things in other areas.

I'll just add on that you're entitled to like what you like and have an opinion, but when you cram the same obssessive ranting/bantering about your gripes with the comic(s) and the characters, well...yeah. It gets tired quick, especially if you're trying to get them to understand where you're coming from and respect it.

Am I entitled to my opinion? You infer that I'm obsessive in an attempt to knock down my very opinion (ad homming) and then on the same coin say "I'm entitled to it". The whole point of many of my discussions is to find the basis by which people disagree. I want to see what ideas are stronger, and which need to change. It is because I do take into account what other people say, which is why I do it. I also realize there are many people who may have new things to say, or people as time comes on, grow new ideas that they may not have originally had. So yes, I'll talk about subjects of interest quite a bit to be sure I haven't left many stones unturned. But I'm not going to baaaw my eyes out if there's more support for the opinion that the world is not flat, and no one agrees with me at the end of the day. It's nice if you do, but it's not the goal. You can't ensure having any fun that way if it were. If you don't respect it, you don't respect it. Whatever.

But to get back on topic, and furthermore, the subject of Mina, I'd have to say that I doubt there's much Ian or any other writer can do to make her more of a prominent figure in the comics. The super speed is constantly played down in lew of her singing ability and career, so that's probably the main reason she won't be popping up for anytime soon.

You complain about what I say, but it's like you don't actually read what I say to know. I'm not saying you have to agree, but you can at least show you listened to what others have said before mouthing off to so and so about not reading what others say in other topics, or just talking out of your neck. Sally's feild duty was played down(--no played out), for her career in the palace and her career as a columnist. Two tasks that would realistically be a full time job were made part time if not ditched altogether so Sally could come back. That and as I said before, she had several reasons why she left, that weren't even addressed. This is not Sally bashing, this is saying that if Ian could go that far for Sally, it's possible for him to do so for Mina. It's not a matter of "can't" take the time to guide Mina to a field position, its a matter of "won't." Especially since as Picchi said Mina when asked to go on field missions has done so in spite of having a music career. Why can't it be part time or integrated into the missions?

There is in fact little reason for Mina to continue wanting to devote much time to her tours, let alone full time. The initial reason was that the troops were so dejected and in need of encouragement was because of the loss of Sonic for a year. As General D'Coolete said, with Sonic back, spirits had been revived. As for gaining support for the war, this is what diplomatic missions involving Sally have historically been for. Now I can understand Sally being in too great an emotionally battered position until recently, but she's no longer in that state anymore and can effectively be the diplomatic figure that she was and go to see the politicians running the country directly. Not only that, but like Picchi said, even if she went on ocassional tours to raise awareness and to do bands, it'd only give Sonic more reason to do what he likes, and what Eggman's changes in status quo seems to be headed--traveling the world, seeing characters that we don't often get to see.

Secondly, if she's focusing on that, I doubt any mention of her work as a tactician for the FF would be of much merit as she's constantly away performing or just practicing/making music in general. I'm pretty sure that being a tactician would require a fair amount of familiarity with the current matters at hand, so if she's away all the time, how would she be able to competently do that?

This is another example of what I mean by my opinions change. I am not unwilling to change. Most of Sally's fans in particular don't seem to realize or just outright ignore how dynamic my opinions have been about her like Adamis who you quoted "point blank." But anyways, I don't feel anyone should be a field leader anymore. I felt odd about saying it, and I feel that they should all use their brains in battle as a means of allowing the genre to convey the personalities of the characters in question. While I understand someone giving an overview of what needs to be done a "field leader" who does all the critical thinking in executing the mission really waters down the other characters. So while I wouldn't mind Mina being tactful, I wouldn't want her to be the only brain on the team. When it boils down to it, personality is the most important factor. How does character X bounce off of the others? What does personality contribute to the team? Because as I said, if you've got flaws making problems for the mission, characters that can offer balance to them are aiding in the mission just as much as if they were fighting. Teen Titans (the show) tried addressing the issue of personality as a vehicle of plot by making their cast have distinct personalities that contributed something. Even when that meant the super powers in question overlapped with another characters'. Some titans who some fans may argue had more original powers were rejected for essentially having personalities too similar to other characters. Now, I'm not arguing whether or not the show was perfect in it's execution, but it does arise the point that writers do realize that personality can help in moving the story along and more often then not, a way that really makes the characters come off as unique. As soon as another character learned to bash through a bot, Sonic's physical contributions as a soilder were immediately cheapened.

EDIT:

She does nothing but rant rant rant about that one particular character, or if she's not, she either on Ian's forum asking the same type of BAWW in the threads where Ian wants to hear feedback from the fans.

If you went to Ian's board you'd know I've talked about at lenght Julian and Eggman (how in God's name did you miss that one, it made it to 50 pages in a relatively quick period of time), the whole list of FFs, etc. Sally was not the totality of what I discussed there, and to act like she is, shows once again you don't actually read. Thank you and have a good day.

I'm sorry to say that I call it like I see it, and given that I've merely observed this over a gradual period of time , I think I'm within my write to state that. 4-5 years of long, winded rants on dA, to anti-hate/support character x character clubs/forums kinda doesn't either.

Writing a lot doesn't take me a whole lot of time. I've also said this many times to people, if you read. It's not obsessive, just something that's easy for me to do. Some people have a harder time, I don't. But like Picchi said, other people have made a cesspool of complaints on many topics, dedicating art, and rants to it. Heck even now the whole Sonic fanbase has to get their word in on how to save the francise in general, but where are your rants to these people? There are none, Kitty. As for the hate/support character clubs? So what? Many people join and make those. It's not like we're asking people to go out of their way and spam your inbox or anything.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Miko

[KittyNakajima]

Writing a lot doesn't take me a whole lot of time. I've also said this many times to people, if you read. It's not obsessive, just something that's easy for me to do. Some people have a harder time, I don't. But like Picchi said, other people have made a cesspool of complaints on many topics, dedicating art, and rants to it. Heck even now the whole Sonic fanbase has to get their word in on how to save the francise in general, but where is your rants to these people? There are none, Kitty. As for the hate/support character clubs? So what? Many people join and make those. It's not like we're asking people to go out of their way and spam your inbox or anything.

Maybe you'd enjoy explaining this to all to me on AIM? Because I'm all this TL;DR is making my brain melt. See that? Can't even make a coherant sentence!

Bleh. I'm just gonna stick with my original backup and agreement of Adamis' statement. He said it best, and he said he damn well blunt. A lot of the stuff that you post is pretty negative, if not outright BAWW, and I'm just amused/glad that I wasn't the only one that noticed that.

I've said enough here and really don't wish to drag this on further in the topic, so if you know how to use AIM, you can rag in my ear all you want. XD

....

Didn't mean to derail Toby's topic, so um...well, is anyone looking forward to the post 200 issues?

Edited April 3, 2009 by KittyNakajima

[Picchi]

Alright, hate to bypass your lovely post, but if you were paying attention, I was simply agreeing with Adamis' statement and merely stating what I have seen of your sister over the past couple of years. She does nothing but rant rant rant about that one particular character, or if she's not, she either on Ian's forum asking the same type of BAWW in the threads where Ian wants to hear feedback from the fans.

Since Miko already touched on a lot of the points you've said, I'll just say this: Ian and some of the people who supported him WANTED Miko and the others (FUSers) to come to the board to give their opinions. Had we not been bothered with it by the the several times they kept coming to us about it, we wouldn't have bothered. In fact, many people from FUS who were not specifically targetted didn't even show up, because they knew it would acheive absolutely nothing.

And even if you didn't like Ian's direction, you and Adamis are still being hypocrites. Yes, Miko rants about stuff, but so do a lot of people in the Sonic community---in this very forum. Why even bother ad homming one particular forumer, when many of them do the same thing anyway? Someone ranting or discussing with people about a bunch of concepts they don't like or think could be improved? Since when was this anything new?

If you and Adamis want to keep ranting at Miko about what she does, take it to PM. Your beef with a particular forumer was and is hardly relevant to this discussion.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Picchi

[Genesis]

Seriously, how are Adamis and Kitty being hypocrites? They were talking about majority of your posting not all of it. All they were mainly saying to Miko was that she comes off being a bit unpleasant. Sorry to say, but I have to agree with them. I have debated with both of you in the past and all I hear (mainly) is negativity about something about the franchise (mainly the comic) for years.

When you guys debate, you don't come off as a respectable, open minded debaters. Whether if thats your intention or not, your not coming off that way. From my experience it comes off as "This is my opinion and if you can't see it your either stupid or as you put it "seeing something that is not there". You guys make your opinion as a forced opinion.

If your offended by what they said (which seems like you are judging on your posts). Maybe you want to change your approach.

Now can we get back on topic now please?

Edited April 3, 2009 by Genesis

[Miko]

Seriously, how are Adamis and Kitty being hypocrites? They were talking about majority of your posting not all of it.

And many Sonic fans continuously talk about where the franchise needs to improve. Some people dedicated a topic now about losing virtually all their love for this franchise. People in general can't shut up about everything wrong with Sonic and the trend is, people having more and more negative things to say than positive. Is Adamis complaining to those people? The general fanbase? No. Is Kitty? No. Do they find it unpleasant? Obviously not enough to adhom the flipping heck out of other people about it. Oh, and Kitty, if you're already bleeding through your eyes reading my stuff, it's probably not a good idea to speak to you on AIM about it. No point in ticking you off.

When you guys debate, you don't come off as a respectable, open minded debaters.

And yet the very things I'm being accused of being so closed minded about are concepts I've in fact been the most dynamic about. That "anti-club" she was harping about? the first one I ran was one someone ELSE made, and I took it over (the first one) to make it an "improve Sally" club for both fans and dissenters as a means for bringing people together to for something they both had in common. This is opposed to kill clubs beating the living hell out of her. I've lost the pass to that, and I can't get in contact with it's original owner, so I left it behind. I probably wouldn't revive it even if I could. But I liked Sally at the time. I was also as I once said a SonSal fan, and a SonAmy fan. I change, and I change a lot. I even discussed a change in position I had over the role of a tactician in the comics within this very topic. When I read back my older stuff I have huge disagreements with what I used to say. The only ones closed minded are the ones that are closed minded to the idea I'm open minded. Maybe it makes them feel better for some reason. But being open minded doesn't mean lapping up whatever someone tells me. If you can support your idea well, and prefferably have more to support your own view than mine that's one thing. But this is usually not the case from people who argue that I'm incredibly closed minded because I didn't subscribe to their beleif.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Miko

[Picchi]

Everyone, need I remind you that there's a wonderful feature called the PM? I'd hate to see this topic locked so use it plz.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'm looking forward to the change in status quo after 200. Not sure if I'll like everything about it, but I'm certain it'll be interesting on some level. I wouldn't mind the "world tour" format (the one Sonic and Tails were in involved in during the time between Julian's death and Eggman's arrival) returning in some way. I guess it'd make sense for it to come back, given that Ian seems to be gradually making things more like the games in some ways.

Wouldn't mind Cream showing up either, as I've heard the ban on her appearence has been lifted now that Sonic X is over.

[Genesis]

And many Sonic fans continuously talk about where the franchise needs to improve. Some people dedicated a topic now about losing virtually all their love for this franchise. People in general can't shut up about everything wrong with Sonic and the trend is, people having more and more negative things to say than positive. Is Adamis complaining to those people? The general fanbase? No. Is Kitty? No. Do they find it unpleasant? Obviously not enough to adhom the flipping heck out of other people about it. Oh, and Kitty, if you're already bleeding through your eyes reading my stuff, it's probably not a good idea to speak to you on AIM about it. No point in ticking you off.

I know there are Sonic fans who do the same thing and yes they are annoying. In fact, I have seen Kitty complain to those people. Not all her posts are here on SSMB.

And yet the very things I'm being accused of being so closed minded about are concepts I've in fact been the most dynamic about. That "anti-club" she was harping about? the first one I ran was one someone ELSE made, and I took it over (the first one) to make it an "improve Sally" club for both fans and dissenters as a means for bringing people together to for something they both had in common. This is opposed to kill clubs beating the living hell out of her. I've lost the pass to that, and I can't get in contact with it's original owner, so I left it behind. I probably wouldn't revive it even if I could. But I liked Sally at the time. I was also as I once said a SonSal fan, and a SonAmy fan. I change, and I change a lot. I even discussed a change in position I had over the role of a tactician in the comics within this very topic. When I read back my older stuff I have huge disagreements with what I used to say. The only ones closed minded are the ones that are closed minded to the idea I'm open minded. Maybe it makes them feel better for some reason. But being open minded doesn't mean lapping up whatever someone tells me. If you can support your idea well, and prefferably have more to support your own view than mine that's one thing. But this is usually not the case from people who argue that I'm incredibly closed minded because I didn't subscribe to their beleif.

Ok, I understand. You can either take what they are saying to mind or just brush it off. it's your choice. But please don't continue this here. lets not ruin the topic okay? can we agree to that?

Edit: oh sorry I didn't see Picchi's last post ^^""

Edited April 3, 2009 by Genesis

[Picchi]

I wouldn't mind the "world tour" format (the one Sonic and Tails were in involved in during the time between Julian's death and Eggman's arrival) returning in some way.

Again, I think Mina could possibly help play a hand in this with her singing career. Instead of her being grouped with a bunch of nameless furries with no established personality, why not have pre-existing characters like Sonic, Vector, etc. occasionally go on small tours with her as a band to have adventures?

Wouldn't mind Cream showing up either, as I've heard the ban on her appearence has been lifted now that Sonic X is over.

She could be introduced as Bunnie's little sister. There hasn't been anything established about her family, and Cream has some similarities to her in appearance.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

Again, I think Mina could possibly help play a hand in this with her singing career. Instead of her grouped with a bunch of nameless furries with no established personality, why not have pre-existing characters like Sonic, Vector, etc. occasionally go on small tours with her as a band to have adventures?

Sounds logical to me.

She could be introduced as Bunnie's little sister. There hasn't been anything established about her family, and Cream has some similarities to her in appearance.

That would be absolutely wonderful, in my opinion. I like the idea of Vanilla being Bunnie's mom, too.

[Miko]

Wasn't Sonic a DJ in the games or something? I saw it on his profile somewhere. But maybe he could make for a good male lead singer.

[Blazey Firekitty]

But maybe he could make for a good male lead singer.

That would be interesting.

"Well, I don't show off, don't criticize..."

[Picchi]

Wasn't Sonic a DJ in the games or something? I saw it on his profile somewhere. But maybe he could make for a good male lead singer.

Sonic might've been, but being a lead/backup male singer (there is pro art of it IIRC), and in the comics a guitarist would also be asking a lot for him to do. Best to just leave that to Vector. He could probably rap too on occasion which might actually enhance the genre Mina sings.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Picchi

[Blazey Firekitty]

The thought of Tails drumming with his tails makes me lol.

[Picchi]

A drumstic in both hands, and two more with his tails. He'd be quite the drummer. XD

Tails would also be pretty useful in system maintanence. Like, if anything happens to the equipment, or if the crew needs items to assist them in their mini-adventure Tails would always serve as means for providing that.