Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[DaBigJ]

@Blue Blood basically nailed it in terms of describing how shit Chaos Island is. It almost makes me wanna just say fuck it and go back to the previous two islands again (wish I knew how though.)

Unrelated, but I saw this and found it funny 

 

[Blue Blood]

5 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

@Blue Blood basically nailed it in terms of describing how shit Chaos Island is. It almost makes me wanna just say fuck it and go back to the previous two islands again (wish I knew how though.)

Unrelated, but I saw this and found it funny 

B-b-but Sonic could have just run around them! Or he could have rail launched. It's still peak and totally new! 

[DaBigJ]

I figured out how to backtrack, right now I'm stimulating the fuck outta Big the Cat's economy just to grind.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, Red Hot Jack said:

1. I wouldn't expect too much from free DLC to be honest. The fact (IF) all 3 are playable is already a lot. Maybe next game will have character songs. At most here I could expect a remix of previous themes.

2. That's possible, it's just references. After all, Ian said classic is now the past (again).

One more thing I wanted to mention, I'm glad Frontiers was a success, it resulted in Kishimoto being more active on socials to interact with fans and listen to them, and yeah this is also the reason we are getting more playable characters.

That being said, Kishimoto's confidence boost definitely comes from the fact that Frontiers turned out to be such good and well-received by the gaming community as a whole. 

Part of me does wonder what might have happened if the game had actually been bad, or if the majority of players actually hated it.

Still, all the same, what I'm mainly hoping is that the fanbase as a whole doesn't screw this up like with Pontaff.

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

 

Still, all the same, what I'm mainly hoping is that the fanbase as a wholr doesn't screw this up like with Pontaff.

I'm sorry, what? 

[Red Hot Jack]

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm sorry, what? 

It's both actually. Pontaff didn't do research and wrote parodies of the Sonic cast. The fans assaulted Ken Pontac on social media if I recall correctly and then Pontac and Graff were afraid of being active online, because of Sonic fans hatred for their work. I remember an old post by Pontac in which he said he wanted nothing to do with the fanbase. 

To be fair, the fans are just passionate about their favorite characters being written well, but insulting people online obviously is just bad, if this is what happened.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

15 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm sorry, what? 

Basically, back in the day, Pontaff tried something similar, reaching out to the fanbase via social media.

While passionate and understandably upset, a ton of fans were needlessly just toxic and ranting, and of course, spouting death threats.

Needless to say, Pontaff can't be entirely blamed on their own for ultimately retracting the effort. 

That's why I'm hoping we don't have douchebags popping in and spoiling the direct line of communication we finally got going with Kishimoto. 

[JezMM]

1 hour ago, DaBigJ said:

I figured out how to backtrack, right now I'm stimulating the fuck outta Big the Cat's economy just to grind.

I think you want to find a fishing spot on your current island, since I don't think keys/gears/memory tokens from one island can be used on another.  I might be wrong about keys since they aren't colour-coded, but either way it's best to find the fishing spot on the current island, since you earn more currency the further through the game the fishing spot is, so it'll be a quicker process to get the collectables you're after.

[Sonicka]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Although I'm not @DaBigJand don't want to speak for him, I'm bit irked by people acting as though it's 2D sections alone that cause Chaos Island to be so disliked. They're only a part of it. 

• Chaos Island replaces most of the treasures spots with hidden springs, boosters and ramps. You think you're exploring, but you perform a little Cyloop on an item spot and suddenly you're forced on to a set path. It's practically guaranteed not going be where you wanted to go and could very well be 2D too. This is (almost?) never the case previous islands, which have collectibles in treasure spots instead. You were taught one lesson early on about the treasure spots and now they actively hinder your gameplay. It goes both ways too, because sometimes the path forward is arbitrarily hidden from view. 
• Regular springs and boosters litter the path too, with the same problem of forcibly changing your route should you do so much as graze one. They aren't easy to see ahead as you run through the landscape. 
• Ground-level lava flows across some parts of the map. It's very hard to see and a single touch is an instant Game Over. I also failed a few jumps over the lava because of the fact that Sonic loses all speed and forward potential when he jumps. That's a game-wide rather than being specific to this island, but the insta-deaths involved so exacerbate it somewhat 
• The main landmass has a very rough outline to it, making it difficult to navigate. It's got steep hills functioning as OOB areas on the insides. Furthermore, it's shaped like a broken figure-8. The result is an area that's not very wide, has lots of dead ends and bottlenecks you as you try to explore. You'll be going along the same paths again and again. The likelihood of hitting a booster that you didn't see is anyways pretty high. So it's tedious first by design and then wrests control from you. 
• The other landmasses are connected to the main landmass by springs, floating rails and floating platforms. Good luck having the faintest clue where to start, because draw distance doesn't help. If you're not in the right place then the object or rail you need won't even exist on the horizon for you to follow. You'll run around searching for the one object to start your path, rather than following the last of the land. Its just completely unclear to the player how they're supposed to get to the Emerald Vaults and main story missions. There is no logical order to Chaos Island's layout. Even if by some miracle you do remember the layout of all the things you need, you'll be re-do in gba same platforming tasks every time to get to your destination in one of those little landmasses. 
• And if you accidentally end up in the wrong place, like one of those little islands, you'll need to find another rail or spring to take you back, cause the one you just used is one-way only. 
• And just for good measure, the 2D really is a nightmare. It comes out of nowhere to stop your gameplay in its tracks. Suddenly Sonic can only move left and right and can't contours in the direction you wanted him to go. It also highlights just how visually and mechanically samey all of the platforming is when you're pushed into those sections against your will. 

Everything about the gameplay on Chaos Island is restrictive, often oppressive. It does its absolute best to make sure that the player can't do what they want. 

TBH it’s easy to stick it to the 2D perspective elements as a gripe as that does seem to be the main bugbear players had of the island - but that’s also why I went out of my way to explain what I enjoyed outside of this as well.

That being said, I think some of the your points are fair - especially the cyloop treasure spots just shoehorning you into more 2D segments.

But if I’m honest, I found Chaos island to be pretty accurate and representative of its namesake - it started off quite restrictive by design, but opens up a whole lot by the time you have all 7 emeralds. The evolving music reflects this to me - it’s like you’re much more free to run around by the end since you know the island well enough at this point. 

I’m not saying Chaos is the best by any means of course, but compared to the others;

- Kronos works as a fantastic tutorial island (hence why it was probably cut off from Rhea and Ouranous late into development (not ideal) but IMO it better serves the player from a gameplay design perspective as to not to overwhelm you from the off with a massive open area early on. 

- Ares might be one of my favourites to traverse, what with running over deserts, latching into sand sharks, grinding through maze like canyons and ruins and figuring out am how to get to certain areas. It felt quite varied in this aspect as well and I enjoyed locating the Oasis area. 

- Chaos (see above)

- Rhea was a trial by force and just unique in its own right for Platformer challenges. I LOVED this break of pace - and running through the forests below reminded me of the first Sonic ‘06 reveal trailer as it felt like Sonic Team finally delivered on what that rendered trailer demonstrated. I just hope this island segment gets a bit more love in the DLC. 

- Ouranos - despite being another segmented area it is a culmination of everything that came before. Whilst the landscapes aren’t as varied as Ares and Chaos - there’s fun to be had here as the land is more open and free to zoom around (and then there’s some interesting black walled cliffs and upside down loopy sections to mess around on too - wish there was more of these in the game).

I dunno - for me a lot of my fun was just zipping around as Sonic most of the time

[DaBigJ]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

I think you want to find a fishing spot on your current island, since I don't think keys/gears/memory tokens from one island can be used on another.  I might be wrong about keys since they aren't colour-coded, but either way it's best to find the fishing spot on the current island, since you earn more currency the further through the game the fishing spot is, so it'll be a quicker process to get the collectables you're after.

I just want to grind to get those Krocos so I can just ease the agony of leveling up

[Sonicka]

2 hours ago, DaBigJ said:

I just want to grind to get those Krocos so I can just ease the agony of leveling up

So, if you are grinding for Koco's for levelling up your speed or ring quota, then I would humbly recommend not to bother (unless you are in it for completion purposes). 

Sonic's regular max running speed at 99 is not IMO significantly greater that it made a huge difference (without using boost). 

And even when using boost at level 99... why, this is basically the same as the "Max Ring Boost" effect, which is obtainable for sonic to use at ANY level anytime by maxing out your rings which, as you may have guessed... is quicker to reach at a lowest ring count / level.

I suppose you could argue you are still improving sonic or balancing him out by upgrading, not to mention you lose Max Ring Boost when you get hit at anything lower than lv99 , so levelling Sonic up to 99 keeps it permanent. But I dunno, I was never at a loss for quick rings thanks to the Cyloop.

Also there's the sliders in the settings to adjust Sonic's regular speed as well, which does make me feel like the upgrade practise is even more redundant... unless you really want to slow Sonic down. 

I do ponder the point of this particular upgrade feature overall if I'm honest. Only the attack and shield upgrades seemed to be the most valuable assists as a gameplay feature alongside the skill tree.

 

[Blue Blood]

4 hours ago, DaBigJ said:

I just want to grind to get those Krocos so I can just ease the agony of leveling up

Rounding up the hard-to-see Koco is just the appetiser. Hashing out 200 level-ups through individual conversions with Elder Koco is the the true grind.

5 hours ago, Sonicka said:

TBH it’s easy to stick it to the 2D perspective elements as a gripe as that does seem to be the main bugbear players had of the island - but that’s also why I went out of my way to explain what I enjoyed outside of this as well.

That being said, I think some of the your points are fair - especially the cyloop treasure spots just shoehorning you into more 2D segments.

But if I’m honest, I found Chaos island to be pretty accurate and representative of its namesake - it started off quite restrictive by design, but opens up a whole lot by the time you have all 7 emeralds. The evolving music reflects this to me - it’s like you’re much more free to run around by the end since you know the island well enough at this point. 

I’m not saying Chaos is the best by any means of course, but compared to the others;

All of the problems that I outlined are related to the 2D segments in one way or another, but they also stand out on their own. It's easy to say "2D bad" whilst willfully ignoring the rest of problems.

Removing the 2D restrictions across the level would only do so much to fix it. It would still be a confusing nightmare to navigate; potential routes are greatly limited by the death pits across the map, and you have to follow very specific platforming sections to reach your destination. In terms of "opening up", all you get is a giantempty crater after the boss fight, and two linear paths to dead ends opening through story missions. 

You shouldn't have to get to know a map for it to be enjoyable. You shouldn't have to fight against the game to maintain control. 

It's namesake is fitting, only because of how much the player will likely be frustrated by it. I don't think that it can really be looked at as a positive. In fact, I don't even think it was intentional. The island names are all from Greek Gods, with Chaos being a slight exception as Chaos is more of lack of being than a God. Arguably Chaos is "the God of Destruction" in universe. It still strikes me as an odd name though, because Chaos of such an important word in Sonic lore, and Chaos Island has no greater relationship to that lore than anything else in the game. 

Music's good though. Best island music in the game. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

13 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Music's good though. Best island music in the game. 

Chaos Island also has the best Titan fight and boss music in the game.

[Sonicka]

2 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

All of the problems that I outlined are related to the 2D segments in one way or another, but they also stand out on their own. It's easy to say "2D bad" whilst willfully ignoring the rest of problems.

Removing the 2D restrictions across the level would only do so much to fix it. It would still be a confusing nightmare to navigate; potential routes are greatly limited by the death pits across the map, and you have to follow very specific platforming sections to reach your destination. In terms of "opening up", all you get is a giantempty crater after the boss fight, and two linear paths to dead ends opening through story missions. 

You shouldn't have to get to know a map for it to be enjoyable. You shouldn't have to fight against the game to maintain control. 

It's namesake is fitting, only because of how much the player will likely be frustrated by it. I don't think that it can really be looked at as a positive. In fact, I don't even think it was intentional. The island names are all from Greek Gods, with Chaos being a slight exception as Chaos is more of lack of being than a God. Arguably Chaos is "the God of Destruction" in universe. It still strikes me as an odd name though, because Chaos of such an important word in Sonic lore, and Chaos Island has no greater relationship to that lore than anything else in the game. 

Music's good though. Best island music in the game. 

That's fair, I think because I just like running aimlessly in this game for periods of time a lot of the issues don't personally peeve me that much, which makes objectives and goals or getting to places mostly a non-issue for me. Sometimes I find stuff by luck, or sometimes by design, sometimes by exploring - it's all ok as far as I'm concerned. But I can appreciate the other perspective. 

Ah yeah, with the Chaos Island's namesake I was just being flippant. I'm more surprised they didn't appropriate spelling the name to something like 'Kaos' Island instead though considering what "Chaos" means in terms of Sonic Lore as you say. Chaos (Emeralds), Chaos (SA1), Chaos (Control), The Chao's... well, that one's slightly different (but related) and spelt the same to a point. There sure ain't no Chao's Garden on Chaos Island in any case.

[TheZekenator]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:10 PM, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Well now. Kishimoto's very dedicated to putting his money where his mouth is, and curating the constructive criticisms given to him, despite the plethora of such.

Good man.

Kishimoto's redemption arc is refreshing. I mean both Secret Rings and Black Knight were well done (Colors meh). I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. I've got to be honest if the franchise continues to take constructive criticisms (and use them diligently) I could see the open zone maybe paving the way for some spin-off games (That's a huge maybe)

Edited January 9, 2023 by TheZekenator

[AmbroseSimpson]

Quote

5 hours ago, Red Hot Jack said:

It's both actually. Pontaff didn't do research and wrote parodies of the Sonic cast. The fans assaulted Ken Pontac on social media if I recall correctly and then Pontac and Graff were afraid of being active online, because of Sonic fans hatred for their work.

 

Which is funny, given that the Sonic Boom cartoon was so popular with the fan-base.

 

6 hours ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

That being said, Kishimoto's confidence boost definitely comes from the fact that Frontiers turned out to be such good and well-received by the gaming community as a whole. 

Part of me does wonder what might have happened if the game had actually been bad, or if the majority of players actually hated it.

I'm a firm believer that Sonic Frontiers is still in a 'Honeymoon Period'. It will be interesting to see how people view the game a year on from now.

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Chaos Island also has the best Titan fight and boss music in the game.

True, but like all of the cyberspace levels it's also separate from the actual island in terms of gameplay. 

Speaking of the bosses, the DLC road map image includes a boss fight in wave 2, practically confirming that you'll be able to re-battle them somehow in the future. Considering how much work went into each individual fight, I think that it must have been a cut feature from the base game due to time constraints. Kishimoto is probably very grateful to have the opportunity to give players the opportunity to go back to them without requiring them to start a new file. 

[Shiny Gems]

Apart from the current discussion this is, I know, but one thing I like about Sonic Frontiers is that there are actual 3D underwater sections in the game! Sure, they are small, and scattered, but I like how they have actually done such sections now. I do hope they expand on these 3D underwater sections in future games.

[MGA_Gamer]

7 minutes ago, ShinyGems said:

Apart from the current discussion this is, I know, but one thing I like about Sonic Frontiers is that there are actual 3D underwater sections in the game! Sure, they are small, and scattered, but I like how they have actually done such sections now. I do hope they expand on these 3D underwater sections in future games.

Didn't colours have them as well?

[Shiny Gems]

3 minutes ago, MGA_Gamer said:

Didn't colours have them as well?

They were 2D underwater sections, to be precise.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

37 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Speaking of the bosses, the DLC road map image includes a boss fight in wave 2, practically confirming that you'll be able to re-battle them somehow in the future. Considering how much work went into each individual fight, I think that it must have been a cut feature from the base game due to time constraints. Kishimoto is probably very grateful to have the opportunity to give players the opportunity to go back to them without requiring them to start a new file. 

I'm wondering if the re-fight feature will also give Supreme more of a fleshed out battle, since the story called for the fight to not be as brutal as other Titan fights. This challenge mode could bump things up.

[Jango]

I wonder if we're getting an  Ultimate Edition with all the DLC already included on the disc, but games that do that usually have paid DLC... Frontiers has it all for free, so maybe not I guess? I'm still waiting for both it and Origins to get a big price drop.

[DaBigJ]

I'm genuinely convinced Cyberspace was not tested, there's no way in hell anyone would test these goddamned levels and say "this is decent, ship them out." 

They're genuinely repulsive, Sonic just controls like dog ass and, I don't know if it's just me, I swear half of the times the inputs just do not register. I'll be holding the left stick right yet Sonic doesn't turn. I'll hold boost yet it cuts off randomly. First Chemical Plant level has Sonic fucking float down a slope half the time.

There's legit no way the same people who made the responsive controls of the Open Zone made these janky, bottom of the barrel controls. This is the worst Boost Sonic's ever been, and I'll fight anyone who says any other Sonic controls worse.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

14 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

I'm genuinely convinced Cyberspace was not tested, there's no way in hell anyone would test these goddamned levels and say "this is decent, ship them out." 

They're genuinely repulsive, Sonic just controls like dog ass and, I don't know if it's just me, I swear half of the times the inputs just do not register. I'll be holding the left stick right yet Sonic doesn't turn. I'll hold boost yet it cuts off randomly. First Chemical Plant level has Sonic fucking float down a slope half the time.

There's legit no way the same people who made the responsive controls of the Open Zone made these janky, bottom of the barrel controls. This is the worst Boost Sonic's ever been, and I'll fight anyone who says any other Sonic controls worse.

Eh, they're different,  and in a way I don't like, but suggesting they weren't tested? Nah, that's overexagerrative.

They are the weakest part of the game still though. I swear, it feels like anything so much as tangentially related to getting chaos emeralds is contractually obligated to have an off control scheme in this series.

They're functional and very much possible to learn how to ace.

[The Deleter]

26 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

I'm genuinely convinced Cyberspace was not tested, there's no way in hell anyone would test these goddamned levels and say "this is decent, ship them out." 

They're genuinely repulsive, Sonic just controls like dog ass and, I don't know if it's just me, I swear half of the times the inputs just do not register. I'll be holding the left stick right yet Sonic doesn't turn. I'll hold boost yet it cuts off randomly. First Chemical Plant level has Sonic fucking float down a slope half the time.

There's legit no way the same people who made the responsive controls of the Open Zone made these janky, bottom of the barrel controls. This is the worst Boost Sonic's ever been, and I'll fight anyone who says any other Sonic controls worse.

You're not far from the truth tbph. When I get the chance to go over the Japanese interviews again, I'll try and make a follow up post to cover it in detail, since there's an element to them that pretty much everyone didn't make a note of. They had also contradicted info that we thought we knew about the development of the game, so it's kinda egg in our face after going with the leaks as a 100% reliable narrative tbh