Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[KHCast]

You know, in a lot of ways, this whole thing feels like another Colors situation. That was also a sonic game I didn’t care for, and even disliked a lot in a lot of ways, but the overall reception to it was seen as really good to the general public and fanbase with many saying it “put sonic back on the map”. So basically, what I’m saying is, I’ve been through this rodeo before, so I’m ready to have the unpopular opinion again about this game. 
 

God I wish we could have another Generations type level of reception where it wasn’t really all THAT divisive in its reception among fans and critics.

[Darkvizardberrytan]

Glad to see the game getting good sales. About time Sonic had another mature story mianline 3d game that did not have to shovel in classic sonic to try to pull in "that" segment of fans. As others have said if they build on what they have and ditch sky sanctuary. The future looks bright for sonic again finally

[DarkRula]

8 hours ago, Zadent said:

 Main gripe: pinball…all the titan door opening puzzles really, as they were sorta pace killers, but man did pinball feel the worst

This absolutely. Nothing so bad as a mandatory part of the game that relies on luck thrown into one of mostly skill.

[caitash]

Pinball wasn’t too bad, it got a laugh out of me followed by ‘of course, pinball, the hobby of ancient civilizations’, but it shouldn’t have had such a high score to beat it. I managed it on the first try which I think was down to sheer luck and button bashing but I can definitely get why people found it out of place and difficult. Missed opportunity for Sonic to be the actual pinball though.

I found the hacking/shooting sections to be my main gripe. That’s not at all the kind of games I play, so I found it really difficult to get past.

I finished Frontiers a week ago and am still trying to put my thoughts into words but will probably do that on the spoiler topic as I want to gush the most about the characterisations.

[Deep Dive Devin]

Yeah, the pinball doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to not go on so long that repeating it makes you want to kill yourself. They should have made that score several times lower.

[Indigo Rush]

Pinball is mostly skill-based, anyone who's adept at it can consistently perform well and get high scores just about every time, I'd say pinball is only partially chance, and that's if you put a randomized gimmick (like slots) in there. Sonic games have incorporated pinball many times before without issue. I had no trouble with Frontiers' pinball, and I'm fairly below average at it. All things considered, the table is extremely basic and tame. Honestly I wish I could replay it.

The actual problem with Frontiers' pinball is the requirements to clear the table. That score count is extremely intimidating and the physics are not like real pinball or even Classic Sonic, which are easier to predict or control. It's very floaty which gives the illusion of randomness and unreliability, and resetting the multiplier after losing a ball, while technically fair, is such a big setback that it'll deflate anyone who's already not confident or has never played or shown interest in pinball before, so I totally understand the complaints here. 

They should've cut the score requirements down by half and given the player more tries, or a limited Ball Save feature to preserve the multiplier. I think fewer people would dislike it then, because otherwise pinball is technically up Sonic's alley.

Spoiler

Makes more sense than Ikaruga, anyway.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

I don't even think the score requirement is all to bad considering the absurd generosity of the score multiplier. Those millions melt away in seconds with a x200 in effect. The real killer as @Indigo Rush alluded to was the  multiplier reset upon loosing a ball. That's just soul crushing.

 

As far as controls, they didn't feel as tight as they should have, but there were serviceable enough

[Iko]

I also didn't have many problems with the pinball, but I've played other pinball games before and I'm already familiar with that type of gameplay.

The score is indeed intimidating, but not really that high... when you reach a decent multiplier (by getting the red star rings) you will reach the goal score in a sudden... the only real problem is when you lose a ball and the multiplier goes back to 0.

A ball save feature is already included in the table, I don't know what does trigger it, but at some point my ball went in one of those side pits and there was a glowing triangle/arrow which threw the ball back into the table and then disappeared. Those things should have been active from the start, and activate back again more often.

As I said in the other thread, with a shake feature it would have been way less frustrating, because as soon as the ball is going toward a pit, you would just shake to change its direction and save it.

The pinball is fine, it only needs some better physics, some more polish and QoL in general.

This said, my least favorite titan puzzle is the one with the lasers at Chronos Island... that's stupid, it's unintuitive and boring, most likely completed by trial and error by rotating the towers randomly rather than finding out the pattern and solve the puzzle logically.

[DarkRula]

I say luck purely because the first four attempts I took at it the ball seemed to always be wanting to go for those side pits no matter what. There was one ball that launched out, found the buffers/bumpers/whatever they're called almost immediately, and dropped down the side pit. Even after those four attempts, where I was finally getting used to the physics of it, the red ring multiplier boosters sometimes appeared in awkward places.

While the hacking minigame was also tough, I at least knew that any mistake was something I'd done wrong. Didn't really take me long and I hate bullet hell type games. As for the laser towers on Chronos Island... it's the hardest puzzle of the game, but a bit of testing regarding each of the towers helps figure things out. Which I admit I didn't do at first.

[Stasis]

Initially I failed the pinball about 10 times. It played well but the score was too high. However, after you've got the first red star ring, hold the ball on the flippers until the next one spawns and then repeat. Easy multiplier. 

[Kuzu]

I got the pinball requirements on my 2nd try, but its kind of dickish for it to have deadzones with such a strict requirement.

If you lose one or two balls before you can get the x256 multiplier its a bitch to get it back.

[Zadent]

I think my main issue with it, like was said in another thread, was the mandatory aspect coupled with the score, ultimately. I think it would’ve been an amusing Side activity. Watching the ball bounce between a few score blocks on the side only for it to hit one just the wrong way and drop down the side was kinda painful to watch. Happened quite a few times.

[Baconjack]

Just finished Frontiers and didn't mind it. 20 hours spent on the main campaign is not bad considering Forces could be beat in just over 2 hours. I'd put it as an upper-tier modern game at best, I'd have it below Unleashed, Generations and Adventure 2 for me. The gameplay of the open zone I found relatively repetitive - a lot of treasure hunting, more so than actually playing the cyberspace levels. It's not Heroes play all the stages 4 times repetitive but got tiring on the last island. Putting gears and keys in hidden chests are a joke when the player should be beating mini bosses and playing the stages to get them. Some interaction with the challenges on the map to progress through the story would have been nice for some variety in the story beyond the 'memory token' quests. The pinball puzzle sucked, the physics weren't anywhere close to real pinball and having deadzones with an enormous score requirement is a bit unfair.

The boss songs are literally the best vocal tracks to ever come out of the series, but they're all piss easy and all (bar Wyvern) require using the same mechanics which gets a bit tiresome.

The game looks great running on 1440p. No problems in that department.

In terms of the levels I didn't mind the Unleashed levels coming back. Recycling old levels is obviously lazy but they clearly spent more time on the open zone and not the actual boost levels. The boost gameplay feels a lot slower than I remember, but that might be just me. I felt the key system was good and made me have to replay the levels several times to get all the keys. Though I was pretty disappointed with the variety of themes on offer, being only variations of Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary and City Escape. Towards the end that got a bit boring, given how the stage assets were mostly re-used from Generations, why wouldn't it hurt to put in Seaside Hill or Planet Wisp into the mix? Given how small the crew was making the game (especially for a $100 AAA product that's meant to be Sega's biggest release of the year), I'm not surprised.

Story wise, Ian Flynn is actually goated and is the glue that holds this series together. I found it to be an incredibly minimal story for what it was, but a night and day improvement from the 2010s games with actual acting and actual character interactions. Tails basically taking the piss out his 2010s self was pretty funny. It leaves a good foundation for the next game.

As someone who was highly sceptical of Frontiers for over a year I felt it surpassed my expectations. The real take-away is that Frontiers is a formula that works slightly well (with a bit more polish) that can be built upon in a future modern title. At its core, it is a very minimal game, it was pretty clear to me most of the development time was spent on the open world without time left for much else. No doubt it's probably going to sell very well, especially as you get to Christmas. I just hope the next game (which will probably build off Frontiers given that it will sell well) builds on the formula and makes it a bit more sophisticated.

[LegoFedora]

The pinball was cool at first, but the skill requirement is the biggest problem. The physics were kind of jank but honestly, they worked fine. It probably could have been a lot worse, so at least we have that going for it.

The most annoying part is just how long it takes to finish it. Every time I was near an attempt I was getting sweaty-hands, but not because the challenge was difficult or I was performing at my peak or anything. I just knew if I screwed up now then I'd be spending the next 10 minutes giving it another chance.

[Razule]

I had no problem with the pinball at all, I was just surprised how long it took

[JezMM]

Yeah I beat the Pinball first time, but it took a while to click as to what the actual goal was (keep beefing up the multiplier to the point it makes the score a joke), with the score initially progressing so slowly I thought there was some sort of mistake.

Honestly, in the end it was just a bit too repetitive.  The table just had nothing to it other than the core objective.  To be honest I see why it isn't replayable for that reason (even though, agonisingly, the map marker for it remains incomplete even after beating it, have fun with that, 100% completion obsessionists!).

[Darkvizardberrytan]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:30 AM, Indigo Rush said:

Pinball is mostly skill-based, anyone who's adept at it can consistently perform well and get high scores just about every time, I'd say pinball is only partially chance, and that's if you put a randomized gimmick (like slots) in there. Sonic games have incorporated pinball many times before without issue. I had no trouble with Frontiers' pinball, and I'm fairly below average at it. All things considered, the table is extremely basic and tame. Honestly I wish I could replay it.

The actual problem with Frontiers' pinball is the requirements to clear the table. That score count is extremely intimidating and the physics are not like real pinball or even Classic Sonic, which are easier to predict or control. It's very floaty which gives the illusion of randomness and unreliability, and resetting the multiplier after losing a ball, while technically fair, is such a big setback that it'll deflate anyone who's already not confident or has never played or shown interest in pinball before, so I totally understand the complaints here. 

They should've cut the score requirements down by half and given the player more tries, or a limited Ball Save feature to preserve the multiplier. I think fewer people would dislike it then, because otherwise pinball is technically up Sonic's alley.

  Hide contents

Makes more sense than Ikaruga, anyway.

Actually not really. Having played pinball games since that old one on windows 95 *oh the days hearing that music* this one was im not sure how to put it. Buggy *mostly just the ball*? It was annoying and glad I got pass it but lord was it maddening. The times it would slightly hit the death zones and roll out were annoying but the worse is the ball at times would literally phase through the bumpers and i had to rapidly try to hit it to keep it both on top and "In" the bumper to pull it back. Half time rapid slapping would work the other it would just phase to far

[DarkRula]

Um... well this is news to me.

Some Call Me Johnny has released his video on this, and during it he talks about a final boss fight. I kid you not, I literally questioned "There's a final boss?" I have no idea why, but I never had to face it. I got the cutscenes and ending QTE, but I never had to face off against it. I kinda feel robbed but at the same time not. 'Cus that just looks hell.

Ah, well. Next playthrough.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

5 minutes ago, DarkRula said:

Um... well this is news to me.

Some Call Me Johnny has released his video on this, and during it he talks about a final boss fight. I kid you not, I literally questioned "There's a final boss?" I have no idea why, but I never had to face it. I got the cutscenes and ending QTE, but I never had to face off against it. I kinda feel robbed but at the same time not. 'Cus that just looks hell.

Ah, well. Next playthrough.

It's exclusive to hard mode, with the only hint to it being the difficulty selection mentioning a bonus.

Real reason it's likely relegated to the hard mode is it's a slapdash final fight made seemingly due to a lack of time according to datamined assets, so it's

Spoiler

a hard bullet hell shoot em up instead of anything close to the previous fights.

 

[DarkRula]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It's exclusive to hard mode, with the only hint to it being the difficulty selection mentioning a bonus.

Real reason it's likely relegated to the hard mode is it's a slapdash final fight made seemingly due to a lack of time according to datamined assets, so it's a hard bullet hell shoot em up instead of anything close to the previous fights.

Ah, that explains it. Definitely want to give hard mode a try for another playthrough, so I'll see just how hard I find that final boss, then.

[Sonikko]

Do we have any info on sales yet?

The game is already 30$ on Amazon US and it's out of the top50, while simultaneous releases like GOW are still full price and in the top10.

Bit worried for what this means for the budget of the next game lol.

For what it's worth, it seems to be selling decently on Amazon Italy but that's not saying much as we're a pretty small market.

[caitash]

35 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Do we have any info on sales yet?

The game is already 30$ on Amazon US and it's out of the top50, while simultaneous releases like GOW are still full price and in the top10.

Bit worried for what this means for the budget of the next game lol.

For what it's worth, it seems to be selling decently on Amazon Italy but that's not saying much as we're a pretty small market.

Daaaamn I just checked Amazon UK this morning and the version I bought (PS5) has been cut down to £28. It’s not been out 2 weeks yet. As a new release I don’t think it would be in the Black Friday sales yet (UK tends to do Black Friday over 1-2 weeks instead of just on the one day) but maybe this is them trying to convince the people who are on the fence/said they’d pick it up on sale or something.
 

I don’t regret paying full price for it because I had a brilliant playthrough experience and loved the character writing, but I think there will definitely be people out there who will be annoyed that it’s almost half price less than 2 weeks in.

[Sonikko]

4 hours ago, caitash said:

Daaaamn I just checked Amazon UK this morning and the version I bought (PS5) has been cut down to £28. It’s not been out 2 weeks yet. As a new release I don’t think it would be in the Black Friday sales yet (UK tends to do Black Friday over 1-2 weeks instead of just on the one day) but maybe this is them trying to convince the people who are on the fence/said they’d pick it up on sale or something.
 

I don’t regret paying full price for it because I had a brilliant playthrough experience and loved the character writing, but I think there will definitely be people out there who will be annoyed that it’s almost half price less than 2 weeks in.

It's on sale worldwide, which is where my concern stems from. I just want this low budget era to end for good, but if what I think has happened has indeed happened (sales plummeted after a week, hence the 50% off cut), we aren't out of the woods yet.

[Zadent]

Wouldn’t a number of these sales hit on the retailer side more than Sonic Team? I was under the impressions stores marked them down to draw people into their locations/sites? When I looked on Amazon, it looked specifically to be Black Friday, same with Target, and then they’d go back up after.

[caitash]

14 minutes ago, Zadent said:

Wouldn’t a number of these sales hit on the retailer side more than Sonic Team? I was under the impressions stores marked them down to draw people into their locations/sites? When I looked on Amazon, it looked specifically to be Black Friday, same with Target, and then they’d go back up after.

Ah you’re right, I went straight to the product page this morning where it just has the discounted price. When it comes up in a search results list it does have the red label ‘Black Friday deal’ front and centre next to the price. I didn’t think such new releases would be included in Black Friday but I stand corrected.