Megathread MT | Sonic Prime (Netflix, TV Series) - General Discussion

[Enesephus]

Some Sonic fans just look for any reason to panic about an upcoming Sonic thing we don't know anything about or haven't heard about in a while, even when it's something totally expected. I remember most people were excited or intrigued by that concept art that leaked last year, but, since we haven't heard about it in a while (which isn't out of the ordinary for these streaming shows, or even in general, really), now the rating for the show is cause for alarm because apparently only baby shows are rated TV-Y7, and good writing or serious storytelling isn't possible, despite all the shows that exist proving that mindset completely wrong, as well as the fact that the PG rating for movies is just as much of a baby rating at this point, given almost every garbage animated movie we've gotten since the advent of CG has been rated PG, but clearly that didn't stop the Sonic movies from being enjoyable for most fans.

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, The Great Egg Emperor said:

Look, all I hope is that Wildbrain is actually putting time and effort into this. I will be pissed if this turns out to be terrible. Then again, mediocre products are what we have come to expect from this franchise.

Actually, I'm not sure that's really true anywhere but games.  Granted, the games are the most important part of this franchise, and the part that is least tolerable being mediocre, but still, if you look at anything besides the games, I think the outlook is more rosy.  I have the perhaps controversial opinion that none of the three 1990s Sonic cartoons have aged very well, I thought most of Sonic X was crap the first time I saw it, and I probably don't even need to point out how low the Archie series sank, but things have been much better in more recent times.  Ian Flynn and Tyson Hesse are generally well-esteemed by Sonic fans, and those are the creators who keep getting work on the series.

As for Wildbrain, the I mostly know of them as the people who hold the rights to rerun the Sonic cartoons that already exist, while in terms of their own creations, I've only actually seen two; those being Mega Man: Fully Charged and the new Ninjago.  MMFC, I think is rather underappreciated; a lot of people instantly dropped it for its unnecessary changes to the Mega Man mythology but as the show progressed, it got a fair amount more affectionate to the games and even some of its own inventions were surprisingly fun, like Blasto Woman, Chaotique, and of course, Man Man AKA Bad Boxart Mega Man.  Wildbrain Ninjago isn't as good as the older Danish series, but it's nowhere near as bad as I dreaded, despite halving episode lengths still being a bad idea.

10 minutes ago, Enesephus said:

Some Sonic fans just look for any reason to panic about an upcoming Sonic thing we don't know anything about or haven't heard about in a while, even when it's something totally expected. I remember most people were excited or intrigued by that concept art that leaked last year, but, since we haven't heard about it in a while (which isn't out of the ordinary for these streaming shows, or even in general, really), now the rating for the show is cause for alarm because apparently only baby shows are rated TV-Y7, and good writing or serious storytelling isn't possible, despite all the shows that exist proving that mindset completely wrong, as well as the fact that the PG rating for movies is just as much of a baby rating at this point, given almost every garbage animated movie we've gotten since the advent of CG has been rated PG, but clearly that didn't stop the Sonic movies from being enjoyable for most fans.

To be fair, many fans also thought the first movie would suck right up until they saw it, or at least, until they saw the second, post-redesign trailer.  I can't even blame them, given it did, in fact, use plot elements that had become not only standard but widely resented, and like most post-Batman and Robin adaptations seemed too afraid of the brand's more whimsical elements.  It's almost more impressive that the first Sonic movie was as successful given that arguable self-sabotage, but of course seeing Tails made fans optimistic like nothing else could.

[MGA_Gamer]

9 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I have the perhaps controversial opinion that none of the three 1990s Sonic cartoons have aged very well

I agree, none of the 90's Sonic cartoons are perfect, but that doesn't mean they don't have merit.

For example, the AoSTH episode "Tails New Home", a heart-warming story about "Found Family" that cements Sonic and Tails as more than just best friends (Plus the ending makes me go AWWWW every time).

Then again I am a Tails fan so there may be a hint of bias there!

[KingMario05]

4 minutes ago, The Great Egg Emperor said:

I bet if people hate Prime, this will be their rallying cry:

 

Still an absolute banger all these years later. So, if Prime sucks, you all know what I'm playing. /s

2 hours ago, Razule said:

That'll make the people who are insecure about Sonic being a kids' aimed property upset.

Live picture of their reactions to this news, courtesy of Vancouver PD:

[VO.SUPER]

Come on guys. It's just a Y7 Rating. That's standard for kids shows. Anyways, all it probably means is that the show is close enough to air that a rating could be applied to it.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, Enesephus said:

Some Sonic fans just look for any reason to panic about an upcoming Sonic thing we don't know anything about or haven't heard about in a while, even when it's something totally expected. I remember most people were excited or intrigued by that concept art that leaked last year, but, since we haven't heard about it in a while (which isn't out of the ordinary for these streaming shows, or even in general, really), now the rating for the show is cause for alarm because apparently only baby shows are rated TV-Y7, and good writing or serious storytelling isn't possible, despite all the shows that exist proving that mindset completely wrong, as well as the fact that the PG rating for movies is just as much of a baby rating at this point, given almost every garbage animated movie we've gotten since the advent of CG has been rated PG, but clearly that didn't stop the Sonic movies from being enjoyable for most fans.

I wouldn't be surprised if most Sonic fans ended up enjoying Sonic Prime anyway, despite the Y7 rating.

[Marcello]

Were posts deleted or something? I'm seeing multiple posts that are basically "Calm down, TV-Y7 is perfectly fine for a Sonic show!", but I don't see any complaining or freaking out. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

Just now, Marcello said:

Were posts deleted or something? I'm seeing multiple posts that are basically "Calm down, TV-Y7 is perfectly fine for a Sonic show!", but I don't see any complaining or freaking out. 

You mean on the Twitter post or here?

[Enesephus]

Just now, Marcello said:

Were posts deleted or something? I'm seeing multiple posts that are basically "Calm down, TV-Y7 is perfectly fine for a Sonic show!", but I don't see any complaining or freaking out. 

We're really just preemptively complaining about hypothetical complainers, I guess, lol.

I mean, you know they're out there, especially on Twitter, but no one on here yet, at least, I don't think.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 minute ago, Enesephus said:

We're really just preemptively complaining about hypothetical complainers, I guess, lol.

I mean, you know they're out there, especially on Twitter, but no one on here yet, at least, I don't think.

Yeah, I haven't really seen anyone complaining about the Y7 rating on here. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of complaints about it on Twitter.

[Dr. Detective]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone complaining about it on here either.

I can try if you want.

"Oh no! Sonic Prime has the same TV rating as the critically acclaimed Avatar: The Last Airbender and Gravity Falls, a show where blood once poured out of the mounted heads of animals on a wall. This is a bad thing for reasons I've failed to properly research."

[The Famous Sonic]

The UK has a different rating system to the US so I've just checked Netflix and Sonic X has a U rating while Sonic Boom has a PG rating. However Sonic Prime has been listed as kids TV, comedy programme just like Sonic Boom. So that means Prime is going to be like Boom in terms of the tone and there will be jokes like Green Hill is becoming more like Pink Hill right now, Baldy Mcnosehair etc. 

[KingMario05]

Sooo... uh... this show miiiiiiiiiiiight be in need of a new home now.

Netflix Animation Erased: Executives Fired, Shows Canceled and Accusations of ‘Staged Data’ (Exclusive) (yahoo.com)

Spoiler

Phil Rynda, whose official title is Netflix’s Director of Creative Leadership and Development for Original Animation, was let go this week, along with several of his staff, TheWrap can exclusively report and Netflix has confirmed.

According to several creators who spoke to TheWrap, the Kids & Family space at Netflix Animation has changed. Series that benefited from great word-of-mouth and critical praise aren’t being renewed and several high-profile projects have been unceremoniously canceled, including the long-delayed adaptation of Jeff Smith’s beloved comic book series “Bone” (first announced back in 2019). Netflix, which just saw its stock plummet more than 30% after revealing a subscriber and revenue loss during its first-quarter earning report Tuesday, isn’t just in trouble on Wall Street. It’s also facing complications in Toon Town.

Rynda’s firing was perhaps an inevitable end to a deeply chaotic period for Netflix Animation, particularly its Kids & Family division, which saw a boom of talent and creativity give way to corporate pressure, mixed messages and accusations of “staged data.”

Netflix Animation, especially when it came to Kids & Family content, was once considered a glittery Utopia. Superstar creators and visionary young talent were swayed by promises of unprecedented creative freedom and healthy production budgets, backed by the financial and promotional might of the Netflix empire.

A few years ago, there was no place more welcoming or seductive to artists and animators than Netflix Animation. Netflix’s animation units, like its live-action divisions, were known for being a place that you could bring a project that might not have gained traction anywhere else, and suddenly have it produced, without much studio interference. Animation heavyweights like Craig McCracken, Elizabeth Ito and Jorge Gutierrez rushed to the service and quickly started working on their personal dream projects, while Netflix also courted younger artists and fostered productive licensing agreements, chiefly with DreamWorks Animation (Guillermo del Toro’s “Trollhunters” and its assorted spinoffs, “Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts,” and many more).

But now you are seeing fewer of these creator-driven projects. New series aren’t as exciting as they once were. Many animators have left the studio, decamping to old standbys like Cartoon Network, Disney and Nickelodeon or other upstarts like Apple TV+ and Amazon. And Netflix’s focus has shifted noticeably too.

One producer, whose show on Netflix wasn’t renewed, said that when they got to Netflix, Rynda, who served creative roles on groundbreaking animated series like “Gravity Falls” and “Adventure Time,” told Netflix creators, “We want to be the home of everybody’s favorite show.” By the time the producer left several years later, there was a “new thesis statement”: “We want to make what our audience wants to see,” Reed Hastings, Netflix’s Co-CEO, now told animation talent. As far as mission statements go, those are vastly different.

True to this “new thesis statement,” several high-profile animated projects in the Kids & Family space have been outright canceled, including “Bone” (which Netflix confirmed), an adaptation of Roald Dahl’s “The Twits” that was meant to be part of several Dahl-based projects (Netflix insists “The Twits” is still alive, potentially now as a feature film) and Lauren Faust’s witchy “Toil and Trouble.” Netflix currently touts “Boss Baby” as the ideal of what an animated series on the platform should be and what kind of numbers those animated series should be bringing in (this was reiterated by almost everyone we spoke to) although Netflix doesn’t even own “Boss Baby” — it licenses the series from DreamWorks Animation. (A new “Boss Baby” series premieres next month.)

Elizabeth Ito, whose deeply brilliant “City of Ghosts” was recently nominated for a Peabody Award and currently sports a perfect 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, reiterated, as many did, how much they enjoyed working with both the executive teams and Netflix’s marketing department. But she suggested that Netflix’s 360-feedback culture, which is espoused in its culture memo and trumpets full transparency as one of its core tenets, went out the window when the show was threatened with cancelation. Ito and others have complained of being presented with “staged data,” data meant to prove a point that Netflix has and squash conversation around it. Ito described the data as explaining, for the first time, “What they should have gotten for what they spent on the show.” (Netflix confirms their decisions are made using data, which takes into account viewing versus cost.) Creators have described the process as “manipulative.” One producer sent the data back, asked questions, and received a separate, different set of data that still reinforced Netflix’s position. Ito was left wondering, “Well, are you going to make more or not?” Netflix did not. Ito is now at Apple.

Making matters more frustrating for creators are a set of imposed corporate guidelines that dictate, with Draconian exactness, the marketing and distribution of the series. Promotion doesn’t typically begin until a month before the shows premiere. (Sometimes they haven’t even been announced before then.) This leaves a very small window to build awareness and anticipation, much less cultivate genuine excitement. And once the show debuts on the platform, it can often get lost in the shuffle (how many times have you ever seen an animated series “above the fold” on the homepage?), leading many creators to become their own hype machines via various social media platforms.

Levers that other animation studios at bigger corporations can pull, like consumer products releases or promotional tie-ins, aren’t pulled at Netflix. There weren’t “Kid Cosmic” action figures lining the shelves of Target. You couldn’t get a “City of Ghosts” Happy Meal toy at McDonald’s. There’s no theme park or dedicated retail space to exploit either. On the official Netflix Shop, there isn’t a single Kids & Family animated series represented.

Guidelines that usually indicate the way Netflix shows are introduced fail for series in the Kids & Family Animation space. Ito, who has small children, says that kids are “complicated.” Netflix says that one of the things that sway the relative success of series is “word of mouth.” “But kids don’t talk to each other like that,” Ito said.

Dominic Bisignano, an executive producer on Megan Nicole Dong’s musical animated series “Centaur World,” said that “Netflix is proud of its data.” He admits that this approach “brings up a lot of questions.” While Bisignano says that Dong was able to tell the story she wanted to over the course of “Centaurworld’s” episodes, Dong told the streamer, “If you want more, we can do that.” Instead, the team was presented with data but not given context for what that data means to Netflix. It seemed “Centaurworld” wouldn’t go beyond its initial commitment. When Bisignano asked questions about the data, Netflix stonewalled him. Bisignano is now at Cartoon Network.

If an animated series receives accolades after its cancellation, as “City of Ghosts” did with several awards and nominations, including the Peabody, Netflix is even slower to act, if at all. (Look at Ito’s personal Twitter account for the one-woman campaign that finally got Netflix, after several hours, to release a single “City of Ghosts” Peabody sharable.) This is a dramatically different approach to their Kids & Family series content than even the Animated Feature space at Netflix, which launched an endless, elaborate campaign for “The Mitchells vs. the Machines” Best Animated Feature Oscar this year.

With Netflix stock precipitously dropping and budgets being tightened or slimmed company-wide (from production to hiring), maybe these animation creators knew long ago what everybody else is figuring out now: that Netflix, while filled with great people, can be a wonderful place. But when you are being driven purely by algorithms and numbers, sometimes the math doesn’t add up.

Nothing about Prime is mentioned here, but them canceling a Bone adaptation can't be all that great of a sign. Hopefully, if Prime is dead at Netflix, other interested parties like Sonic movie producers Paramount Global, Disney, CN et al. can at least get the project to air.

Spoiler

Although, considering that Netflix's new standard is apparently the fucking BOSS BABY spinoffs... yeah, this ain't gonna be the SatAM spiritual successor we were all hoping for.

 

[Zaysho]

2 hours ago, KingMario05 said:

Nothing about Prime is mentioned here, but them canceling a Bone adaptation can't be all that great of a sign.

I am far, far more upset that this is how I learn about a Bone adaptation being made (and then canned) than anything else.

[KingMario05]

16 minutes ago, The Great Egg Emperor said:

Netflix is only distributing the cartoon. 

Wildbrain is producing it.

Well, that's good. Here's hoping it can find another home, then.

[The Famous Sonic]

I really hope this doesn't get cancelled. 

[GentlemanX]

I'd be very surprised if Netflix ditched Prime for two important reasons. First, it's an incredibly safe investment. The Sonic brand is healthier than ever right now especially coming off the heels of how well Sonic 2 performed. If Netflix needs to cancel titles that they're worried won't turn a profit, they're not going to start by axing the popular franchises with built in fanbases like Sonic. Second, Netflix backing out of Sonic Prime wouldn't kill it. Sega and WildBrain would seek a new financing/distribution partner and almost immediately I imagine Paramount would be knocking at the door more than eager to get it streaming on Paramount+ and airing on Nickelodeon. Not only would Netflix have passed on a sure fire hit, they'd have handed it to their direct competitors. What's happening at Netflix is disheartening for all the projects and creatives involved, but I'd be shocked if Sonic Prime was affected by this at all.

[KingMario05]

6 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

I'd be very surprised if Netflix ditched Prime for two important reasons. First, it's an incredibly safe investment. The Sonic brand is healthier than ever right now especially coming off the heels of how well Sonic 2 performed. If Netflix needs to cancel titles that they're worried won't turn a profit, they're not going to start by axing the popular franchises with built in fanbases like Sonic. Second, Netflix backing out of Sonic Prime wouldn't kill it. Sega and WildBrain would seek a new financing/distribution partner and almost immediately I imagine Paramount would be knocking at the door more than eager to get it streaming on Paramount+ and airing on Nickelodeon. Not only would Netflix have passed on a sure fire hit, they'd have handed it to their direct competitors. What's happening at Netflix is disheartening for all the projects and creatives involved, but I'd be shocked if Sonic Prime was affected by this at all.

I just hope the show is good. With the new regime, I could easily see something promising getting hacked into a sad, old-meme-filled mess to make it fit into Joe Schmoe from Who Cares, Iowa's recommendation feed. Then it doesn't beat Stranger Things 4 in le data metrics, and... well, you know the drill. (The good news is that, much like with Tuca and Bertie, it would be immediately rescued by someone else... in this case, Paramount+/Nick, eager to capitalize on the movie franchise's runaway success.)

EDIT: Another new page. God damn it. Uh... to offset the pessimism, what universes do you guys want to see (assuming generic genres are the target instead of specific continuities)? One where Sonic & pals are miles-tall kaiju would be a ton of fun, I reckon.

[GentlemanX]

5 hours ago, KingMario05 said:

One where Sonic & pals are miles-tall kaiju would be a ton of fun, I reckon.

Last time it went so-so.

 

[KingMario05]

6 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Last time it went so-so.

 

Yeah, but now we have Netflix money, artists who know what to fuckin' do, and good Hollywood kaijus to emulate on our side.

[juiceDpunk983]

What are the chances of this being in game Canon? No other show was Canon to the games. (For a long time I thought Sonic X was in the game Canon lol)

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, CraigAmation983 said:

What are the chances of this being in game Canon? No other show was Canon to the games. (For a long time I thought Sonic X was in the game Canon lol)

It sounds like it's going to be its own thing, although they did mentioned that this show is supposed to take place in the game universe.

[Zoomzeta]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:49 PM, Rabbitearsblog said:

It sounds like it's going to be its own thing, although they did mentioned that this show is supposed to take place in the game universe.

No, pretty sure they said it was based of the game universe. You know, in the same way the IDW comics are? 

[Piko]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:49 PM, Rabbitearsblog said:

It sounds like it's going to be its own thing, although they did mentioned that this show is supposed to take place in the game universe.

From what we know at the moment, it seems like it's gonna be like the IDW comics: loosely based on the games, but all in all it's its own thing.

On 4/26/2022 at 2:51 AM, The Great Egg Emperor said:

So, since E3 is dead, when do you guys expect more news about this?

The show getting a rating suggests that it's near completion, so I wouldn't be surprised if we got some more news (maybe a trailer?) in the next month or so. At the latest we might get something around when E3 was supposed to happen.

[Diogenes]

Ehh...looks kind of gross. It feels like a relatively high-effort SFM fan project, which is less than I expect from an official, professionally-made show. The voice is fine at least.