Megathread MT | Sonic Prime (Netflix, TV Series) - General Discussion

[phobs]

1 hour ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

Not having SEGA of Japan involved in Sonic Prime's production is surely a prime example of Asian Hate. Given that SEGA and their creations are primarily associated with Japanese pop culture, it saddens me that their native market is still being largely ignored.

To be fair, Mario movie is being made by Illumination and not Japanese company lol

[TakahashiAkira97]

Nintendo of Japan and America have historically gotten along so much better than SEGA of Japan and America have. That's partially the reason why SEGA doesn't even make consoles any longer.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

I have a strong feeling that Satomi-sensei and Iizuka-sensei have come to regret approving of WildBrain's involvement.

I strongly dislike being viewed as pessimistic and all, but the truth is, since Sonic Boom flopped, I thought Iizuka-sensei had learned his lesson regarding the consequences of strictly pandering to Western markets when the native Asian markets are also of importance.

Not having SEGA of Japan involved in Sonic Prime's production is surely a prime example of Asian Hate. Given that SEGA and their creations are primarily associated with Japanese pop culture, it saddens me that their native market is still being largely ignored.

I don't think it's Asian hate or anything like that.  Many past Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons have been made in America and historically, Sonic the Hedgehog had never really sold well in Japan.  So, they mostly cater the series to the Western audience because that's where the franchise is doing well in.  However, SEGA is attempting to try to promote Sonic the Hedgehog more in Japan, which is a good thing.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Sonic X was still one of the superior ones SEGA made through their own studios compared to the likes of what DiC made. While I am personally against the sitcom-like approach taken with Sonic Boom, I do believe that some elements from that iteration should be carried into the mainline series.

But more importantly, given their success, I also believe that SEGA's other properties such as, Yakuza and Phantasy Star are both deserving of films much like Sonic. It should be interesting to see where SEGA's relationship with Paramount should go. As long as the source material is still respected along with some creative freedom(think a shared universe approach similar to that of Marvel Studios), I figure it could pan out, boosting sales and account creations further.

Simply put, I hope SEGA has learned from some of their mistakes with Prime the way they learned from the negative reception of the film's first teaser.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Aside from the lack of involvement from SEGA of Japan, the major reason why I've been concerned with Sonic Prime is particularly due to WildBrain's quality of work on Mega Man: Fully Charged (which Capcom thankfully regrets).

Other than that, the Multiverse concept is something worth exploring, provided it's in the hands of creatives that don't confine themselves to just Sonic, as many of SEGA's other properties also deserve to be explored as well.

As a mascot, Sonic was created to be the Gateway to the SEGAVerse, the same way Mario was created to act as such to the World of Nintendo, hence their numerous cameo appearances.

[KingMario05]

4 hours ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

Not having SEGA of Japan involved in Sonic Prime's production is surely a prime example of Asian Hate. Given that SEGA and their creations are primarily associated with Japanese pop culture, it saddens me that their native market is still being largely ignored.

Uhh... Sonic doesn't sell in Japan. Like, AT ALL. He sells here; as such, Sega wants his media franchises to target customers here.

You can agree or disagree with this as much as you like. (I certainly ain't hyped about MoA getting Sonic, especially when fucking Shenmue of all things gets the red-carpet treatment from the same conglom that screwed over Boom for years.) But that's what Sega desires themselves... otherwise, why would Sega be so hell bent on giving SoA growing control over Sonic while Japan handles Yakuza, Persona, SMT et al.?

1 hour ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

Aside from the lack of involvement from SEGA of Japan, the major reason why I've been concerned with Sonic Prime is particularly due to WildBrain's quality of work on Mega Man: Fully Charged (which Capcom thankfully regrets).

Does Capcom really regret that, though? I mean, they've approved of about nine god-awful Resi movies (that most fans hated) due to it being a money printer for Screen Gems and Constantin. (And, by virtue of owning the copyrights, probably Capcom.) The very fact that Sega hasn't shat out about eight edgy Sonic movies by Michael Bay (and got very involved when the current one went sideways) gives me hope that they'll hold WildBrain to a much, much higher standard than Capcom ever did.

TL;DR: Sonic Prime WILL NOT be a Fully Charged, Mario 93-esque trainwreck.  At worst, it'll be bland but servicable to the brand as a whole.

[TakahashiAkira97]

I have very little against Cross-Pacific co-productions. At least Shenmue isn't being outsourced. Along with TMS and Marza, SEGASammy owns Telecom Animation Film.

[phobs]

33 minutes ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

I have very little against Cross-Pacific co-productions. At least Shenmue isn't being outsourced. Along with TMS and Marza, SEGASammy owns Telecom Animation Film.

What happened is already happened. Current target audience of Sonic are western children and Sonic Movie is example of that. It is clear from the concept arts for the show, that Sonic Prime is going to go for similar vibe. The only hope is that Sonic Prime is going to be decent Western cartoon, you won't be getting Sonic equivalent of Attack on Titan or Kill La Kill any time soon (or maybe ever). Let's be honest, even Sonic X was far from perfect. 

I understand that you are passionate about the topic, but you most likely will have to cope with the tone of the show, because you are not its target audience.

[KingMario05]

27 minutes ago, phobs said:

you won't be getting Sonic equivalent of Attack on Titan or Kill La Kill any time soon (or maybe ever).

Eh... Like I said, the Adult Swim/Crunchyroll marriage already has an "in" to Sega via Shenmue the Animation. And Paramount and WBTV (AS' mom) already collaborated on HBO's Watchmen follow-up, so that isn't an issue either. (They collaborate on a whole bunch of things, actually - most notably The CW and 99% of its programs - but that's neither here nor there.)

Will we get one in the same TV season as Sonic Prime? No; not only would that cause Sega's feared "brand dillution," but I imagine Paramount would already have first dibs on a separate TV show thanks to the movies. But if enough people ask for it and if Sonic Prime tanks, it could very well happen. (Probably won't happen, but it could.)

[VO.SUPER]

I think a better example to hope for would be something of the same quality as the CGI TMNT series or maybe Transformers Prime. CGI action shows with great production values all the same.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Is that so? I thought children were into Fortnite a lot more than Sonic, which is more popular amongst teens and millennials than young kids as I saw over the years. I doubt most kids even have that much money, given that they enjoy free-to-play fare most of the time.

And let's not forget that birthrates have been declining all over the world due to COVID.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Besides, Sonic X being far from perfect, as far as the Western market is concerned, is most likely because of 4Kids's censorship policies that also impacted Kinnikuman and One Piece. Had it been solely in Funimation's hands(at the time), I reckon it would have fared better. X while not quite perfect, was a step in the right direction nonetheless.

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 hours ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

Aside from the lack of involvement from SEGA of Japan, the major reason why I've been concerned with Sonic Prime is particularly due to WildBrain's quality of work on Mega Man: Fully Charged (which Capcom thankfully regrets).

They mentioned that the people working on Sonic Prime are also the same people who worked on Generator Rex, which is an animated series that's well liked.  So, at least they are hiring people who seem to be a good fit for this series.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Part of the reason why Sonic succeeded in the west early on was similar to the reason why Pokémon was successful; by consumers it was seen as original, enjoyable, but also exotic. People here were getting more accustomed to things coming from the Far East at the time, and they mostly respected and accepted them for what they were and where they came from, unless they violated certain moral standards, given most of the Western world lived off of Judeo-Christian values.

[TakahashiAkira97]

Regarding Man of Action's involvement, I personally don't have any problems regarding that.

[VO.SUPER]

2 hours ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

Is that so? I thought children were into Fortnite a lot more than Sonic, which is more popular amongst teens and millennials than young kids as I saw over the years. I doubt most kids even have that much money, given that they enjoy free-to-play fare most of the time.

And let's not forget that birthrates have been declining all over the world due to COVID.

Sonic is a consistent winner on the mobile market to this day and still sells a lot of merch to younger fans. 

Just because he's not as big as Fortnite doesn't mean he's not still a huge icon among children. 

[TakahashiAkira97]

But can the same be said for the comics from IDW? Not likely. Since the mid-2010s across the West, many readers, including pre-teens, have begun to prefer a mix of Manga, Manhwa and "Wanga" (Western-made manga) over traditional Western comic books. In that regard, SEGA should reconsider their partnership with IDW.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 minute ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

But can the same be said for the comics from IDW? Not likely. Since the mid-2010s across the West, many readers, including pre-teens, have begun to prefer a mix of Manga, Manhwa and "Wanga" (Western-made manga) over traditional Western comic books. In that regard, SEGA should reconsider their partnership with IDW.

But the IDW comics are doing very well and the comics were actually pretty popular in Japan, which was rare for anything from the Sonic franchise to be popular in Japan.

[TakahashiAkira97]

13,000 copies of a single issue per month is a far cry from 50,000 to 1 million copies of tankobon sold per month.

[KingMario05]

10 minutes ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

In that regard, SEGA should reconsider their partnership with IDW.

Says you and... who else, exactly?

 

4 minutes ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

50,000 to 1 million copies of tankobon sold per month.

...what the hell even is Tankobon? Also, aren't the big guys like Bats and Venom struggling to crack 250K, too?

[VO.SUPER]

17 minutes ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

13,000 copies of a single issue per month is a far cry from 50,000 to 1 million copies of tankobon sold per month.

The single issue sales aren't what IDW counts on, unlike other publishers. They put more stock in their graphic novels, collections and digital sales, which IDW sells plenty of. 

There's a reason those are the things that get distributed worldwide instead of the floppies. (A worldwide release mind you, in more countries than most Manga get distributed to.)

And tankoban doesn't compare to the floppies. Try comparing them to Shonen Jump magazine when individual chapters come out. 

[TakahashiAkira97]

The IDW graphic novels are still priced much higher than the 200-page manga volumes anyone can buy for 7 to 14 dollars. Even Viz Media's 3-in-1 editions retail for just 20 dollars compared to IDW's 80 dollar multi-issue omnibus. That's not profitable considering the high costs of printing in color. And I have yet to know how many digital copies are sold.

Anyway, the point is that much of the Western fanbase is well-aware of SEGA and Sonic's Japanese heritage and believe they should be maintained.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, TakahashiAkira97 said:

The IDW graphic novels are still priced much higher than the 200-page manga volumes anyone can buy for 7 to 14 dollars. Even Viz Media's 3-in-1 editions retail for just 20 dollars compared to IDW's 80 dollar multi-issue omnibus. That's not profitable considering the high costs of printing in color. And I have yet to know how many digital copies are sold.

Anyway, the point is that much of the Western fanbase is well-aware of SEGA and Sonic's Japanese heritage and believe they should be maintained.

The thing is though is that the Sonic franchise was made with the intention to cater to the Western audience in its inception. So in other words, what parts of the franchise is inspired by Japan that should be focused on?  Like you mentioned, Sonic X would be a good example of alerting the Sonic fanbase that the show uses lots of Shounen action, which is popular in Japan and the show was even made in Japan.  Also, the series does take a lot of influence from the Dragonball series, which is an anime series from Japan. I think that most of the Western fanbase is already aware that Sonic was made in Japan.

[TakahashiAkira97]

With Naka-sensei being a fan of Dragon Ball early on in Sonic 1's development, much like most kids in Japan, but also in Taiwan, of course he wanted Sonic to succeed just as much in the homeland as it already has in most of the world. I'm certain that Iizuka-sensei shares similar sentiments as well. And obviously, the highest ones up in SEGA's primary branch would feel the same as well. Look up the interviews they've been in for the past 3 decades.

Going forward, there really needs to be a Win-Win situation on both sides of the pacific in order for the 3-decade storm to calm. If Sonic Prime doesn't lead to it, then let's hope Frontiers does...for now.

I hope both parties continue learning to forsee the consequences for the controversial choices they have made. The more the feuds persist, the sooner they'll need another new mascot.

[VO.SUPER]

Sonic X was a situation where Sonic Team and SEGA took a personal investment to try and get Sonic more popular in Japan. They clearly gave up on Sonic X doing that when they didn't air season 3 on TV until 2019. 

If an anime happens again, it'll be a while. If anything, SEGA is content with having the foreign media translated to Japanese.