Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Diogenes]

I for one am personally hoping we done get any additional characters besides Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. What can Shadow really bring to the table Sonic already doesn't have?

What can Tails and Knuckles give us that Sonic can't?

This "classic characters only" mentality is dumb.

[Flyboy Fox]

I don't think it's dumb. I think it's just a preference. There are so many characters nowadays, and I personally miss when the cast was just basically Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman. That's not to say that they can, as characters, provide more than other characters. But the line-up was basic and simple, and because I knew them first and am most attached to them, I would love to see just them in a game. There's no need to belittle a classic simple minimal cast view as 'dumb' just because you don't share that preference.

[SKSpawn]

Well, then if you're going to boycott Tails and Knuckles based on the principle that "all they do/did was fly or climb walls" (which, to be fair, is pretty inaccurate; playing as Knukcles in Sonic 3 And Knuckels changes routes and the gameplay experiance and ups the difficukty compared to Sonic's gameplay) then why not alter their gameplay to accomodate their unique abilities?

This ties in to my retroactive idea for Sonic Unleashed, which would be a game where you blast through Sonic's stages as they were, no problem. But you can also play as Tails in the overworld, collecting and finding parts (perhaps from Badnik/Robot casings Sonic collects in his levels) and building, customising and upgrading the Tornado to fly in a variety of biplane stages (a bit like Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts And Bolts) to fly Sonic to each location. Then, as Knuckles, you would play the brawling Werehog stages, focussing on combos, plowing through enemies and, instead of overly unfair tricky balance-beams, wall-climbing/bashing and gliding over wind currents.

In this way, you have three distinct play styles to vary the gameplay (like a scaled down, more focussed version of Sonic Adventure) and, potentially, a decent amount of story and gameplay for each of these characters. I like Shadow, and his gameplay and what he can bring, but I would prefer to see Shadow, Amy and...I dunno, Blaze or someone like that, as downloadable characters (not just Missions though, actual mini storylines).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, then if you're going to boycott Tails and Knuckles based on the principle that "all they do/did was fly or climb walls" (which, to be fair, is pretty inaccurate; playing as Knukcles in Sonic 3 And Knuckels changes routes and the gameplay experiance and ups the difficukty compared to Sonic's gameplay) then why not alter their gameplay to accomodate their unique abilities?

Knuckles plays exactly the same as Sonic except he can glide and climb walls; the different routes play no factor in the gameplay, otherwise it further discredits argument that Shadow himself has nothing to bring as you can easily give him different routes and up the difficulty like they've done in previous games with his inclusion. Like I said, it's not what the have or don't have, it's what you give them to work with (i.e. altering their gameplay).

And nobody's boycotting Tails and Knuckles. Why in the hell is it that when someone uses them against an argument it's somehow assumed that they're boycotting them, or that we don't want them around?

We're just bringing up a point that they too have many things exactly like Sonic except for a few abilities, yet they can still work well in the game, and that just because Shadow or any other character have many similarities to Sonic, that doesn't mean they don't have something else to bring to the gameplay.

In this way, you have three distinct play styles to vary the gameplay (like a scaled down, more focussed version of Sonic Adventure) and, potentially, a decent amount of story and gameplay for each of these characters. I like Shadow, and his gameplay and what he can bring, but I would prefer to see Shadow, Amy and...I dunno, Blaze or someone like that, as downloadable characters (not just Missions though, actual mini storylines).

What difference would it make if the were in the story with Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles? If it's anything like the Classic games, they'll all be optional from the start.

Edited October 21, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[speedfreak]

Actually I'd be fine with just Sonic and Eggman. I wouldn't be against Tails and Knuckles being in the game but I don't think they are necessary for this project to be considered a success. I wouldn't really feel let down or anything if they were no shows.

[Badnik Zero]

About Tails and Knuckles, I get what you guys are saying. They don't need to be in there, and could even be other characters. But they're the supporting characters with the most recognizability outside the fanbase. If Needlemouse is trying to win over classic lovers (aka most people who haven't touched a Sonic game since 2001) those are the characters to use. Tails and Knuckles aren't included in the "Sonic's shitty friends" that reviewers talk about.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Scarlet2106]

I don't want Sonic and Eggman either.

I will play as the grass.

[Diogenes]

Tails and Knuckles aren't included in the "Sonic's shitty friends" that reviewers talk about.

So is this the sort of attitude they should bend over backwards to accommodate? Fuck that. That sort of bullshit is only going to hurt the series by crippling any chance it has of growing.

Sonic Team should just give them the metaphorical finger and make Big, Wave, and Professor Pickle playable characters.

[RainbowLizard]

Kinda off topic, but doesn't anyone else find it funny how people complain Modern Sonic is guilty of adding all the characters when really, every Sonic game including the 'classics' added a new character per game; Sonic and Eggman in Sonic 1, Tails in Sonic 2, Knuckles in 3+Knuckles, Chaotix in Knuckles Chaotix, Big and E-102 in Adventure, Shadow and Rouge in Adventure 2, Omega in Heroes (and re-introduction of Chaotix), Doom in Shadow the Hedgehog, Silver in 2006 and Chip in Unleashed.

I know I left out a lot but as you can see, the character additions are happening all across the games. I understand the complaint that Sonic has gotten too many characters over time and new games shouldn't bring in new ones, but I don't understand when people blame this on Modern Sonic. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

About Tails and Knuckles, I get what you guys are saying. They don't need to be in there, and could even be other characters. But they're the supporting characters with the most recognizability outside the fanbase.

It may seem that way on the net. But outside of that is literally a whole new world, for every one person you find who hates any character outside Tails or Knuckles, there's another one who loves them. The most recognized characters outside Sonic and Eggman are: Tails, Shadow, Knuckles, Amy, and Blaze. There may be more than that, but you can see a lot of praise for these characters (and that doesn't mean that there isn't any criticism of a certain character or so)

If Needlemouse is trying to win over classic lovers (aka most people who haven't touched a Sonic game since 2001) those are the characters to use.

Even so, that doesn't mean that other character's are useless because Sonic already has the skills for the job. That was what started this whole thing, NOT on who should be in the game.

Although like Diogenes said, I wouldn't mind them giving the metaphorical finger and throw in other characters...or hell even leave some out like they did in Unleashed.

Tails and Knuckles aren't included in the "Sonic's shitty friends" that reviewers talk about.

Because they focus on the other characters and complain about them, while neglecting to acknolwedge any flaws that Tails and Knuckles has and are willing to let them slide only because of preference.

Although there are reviewers out there who do include Tails and Knuckles in the "shitty friends" list.

[speedfreak]

Tails and Knuckles aren't included in the "Sonic's shitty friends" that reviewers talk about.

I think the "shitty friends" syndrome has less to do with the actual characters and more to do with that certain characters shitty gameplay? Plus the fact that every extra character takes away time from playing as the star, Sonic. For example I'm sure some people would lump Tails from SA2 into the shitty friend group because of the mech bullshit. Also some people believe Knuckles would fall into the group in SA and SA 2 because a great deal of people hated those treasure hunting levels. No one had a problem with them when they basically played like Sonic with an extra ability. It's a combination of gameplay style and an over abundance of characters robbing Sonic of the spot light that created the whole shitty friends thing. I really don't think it has too much to do with individual characters or their personalities.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

...It's interesting how these character arguements can spawn a few post or even a few pages on a topic.

Basically Person1 says: "Only W, X, and Y please? What does Z have anything that W doesn't?"

Then Person2 says: "I too would like only the W, X, and Y set? That'll make my day!"

Someone reads the two posts, determine that Person1 and 2 are saying this out of preference, however Person1 is being more discriminating against other characters for reason R, so Person3 comes out and targets Person1 on this issue instead of Person2 for merely prefering something.

Then we get all this, and no doubt plenty more posts and pages to come.

I love this forum.

[Badnik Zero]

My personal preference is that they shuffle the characters around and only use the whole cast in stories that can support them, like an RPG. I think Sega's understanding this. SatBK had Shadow, Blaze, and Knuckles take starring roles, and Unleashed had a small cast while only introducing one (non-playable) character. If this was any other game I'd agree, but this is a classic tribute and this the place to use the older characters. I'm gonna enjoy it either way, I just think the classic cast is more in line with what they're trying to accomplish here.

I think the "shitty friends" syndrome has less to do with the actual characters and more to do with that certain characters shitty gameplay? Plus the fact that every extra character takes away time from playing as the star, Sonic.

This is a good point, gameplay has dragged some characters down. But I think some characters carry more baggage than others because of the games they've been in. Shadow and Silver particularly. A lot of us are crazy about the idea of Tails following Sonic around, straight out of Sonic 2. That's what they need to go for, a total throwback to the old games. And the characters that'll be most welcome to the classic crowd are classic characters.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Diogenes]

If this was any other game I'd agree, but this is a classic tribute and this the place to use the older characters.

Why not use all of the characters? Why does this impenetrable wall have to exist between the "classic" characters and the "modern" ones? Break it down, and now, not later!

[ArtFenix]

this is a classic tribute

Who said that? There wasn't a word about classics in the teaser. the only thing that was said is that it will be a new 2D adventure. WHY do you think it's gonna be a classic tribute?!

P.S. Wow..86 pages about nothing.. I closed my topic about needlemouse on another forum on the 62 page, but Sonic stadium impresses me))

Edited October 21, 2009 by ArtFenix

[Indigo Rush]

I'll laugh when they reveal that this plays exactly like Sonic Rush.

[Badnik Zero]

Why does this impenetrable wall have to exist between the "classic" characters and the "modern" ones?

Because there's a break in game quality between the old and new games, which caused a break in the fandom. I don't think the wall can come down until a modern Sonic game becomes as acclaimed as the originals.

Who said that? There wasn't a word about classics in the teaser. the only thing that was said is that it will be a new 2D adventure. WHY do you think it's gonna be a classic tribute?!

Because this announcement comes while retro revival is extremely popular. There was a classic Sega intro in the trailer. Along with the spin-dash effects and wingtip logo. It's heavily implied this is gonna be a classic tribute, I just wonder if Sonic Team can pull off a game that really plays similar to the 16-bit titles, and not just 2D like Rush.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Stretchy Werewolf

[Blue Blood]

Who said that? There wasn't a word about classics in the teaser. the only thing that was said is that it will be a new 2D adventure. WHY do you think it's gonna be a classic tribute?!

You really think that's not a clear impression of the trailer? Wowie.

1. The trailer uses classic sound effects. The jump sound most obviously, but there the dash and ring sounds too.

2. The emblem. The emblem was highly iconic in the older games and hasn't been seen since SA2. (Heores too actually, but it didn't contain Sonic and that game was rather thematically classic)

3. The character within the emblem. It's the Sonic 1 emblem. And well, I thought that Sonic 1 came before Adventure redesign but I could be wrong.

It's not set in stone, but everyone who thinks that Needlemouse is a classic "tribute" does so with good reason. Better reason than to think not so.

[speedfreak]

I'll laugh when they reveal that this plays exactly like Sonic Rush.

Even though I enjoyed the Rush games, that would indeed be a dagger through my heart and the hearts of all who are expecting a true return to classic form. I don't mind if it's new Sonic in looks, but I want old Sonic in gameplay.

[ArtFenix]

It's popular to make retro revivals, but it's only a tendency, not a proof. Sonic rush has the same spindash and jump sounds, so what? They can make a game which plays like classic Sonic, but looks like modern Sonic with classic emblem(with modern Sonic inside)I hope they will go this way).

It's not set in stone

Exactly. But i see a lot of comments where people are 100% sure it will be a classic stylized Sonic game and they speak like that's a matter of fact.

P.S. Classic sonic gameplay > sonic rush/advance gameplay

Edited October 21, 2009 by ArtFenix

[Blue Blood]

Exactly. But i see a lot of comments where people are 100% sure it will be a classic stylized Sonic game and they speak like that's a matter of fact.

Nobody knows for definite. I'm very sure it will be playing plently of the classic strings, but I don't know that for definite yet.

[ArtFenix]

If this was any other game I'd agree, but this is a classic tribute and this the place to use the older characters.

If somebody doesn't know for sure, would he/she write about it this way? I don't think so. Sorry about that, but sometimes it pisses me off when people are talking about it, like they are making this game.

As for me i would like project needlemouse to be a game that plays like classic sonic(but, maybe, faster) and looks like modern sonic. I would like to see other characters there, maybe not involved in the plot, but as bonus characters like Amy in Sonic advance 2.

Edited October 21, 2009 by ArtFenix

[PSI Wind]

Im suprised people forgot that the original trio was Sonic, Tails, & Amy. Knuckles was AFTER Amy, so Sonic, Tails, Amy, & Knuckles will please me.

[speedfreak]

If we're going to choose one representative from the game Amy originated from then lets choose the better one. Metal Sonic for Needlemouse!

Edited October 21, 2009 by speedfreak

[ArtFenix]

Then you've forgotten about Metal Sonic, who came at the same time with Amy if not earlier(that silver metal sonic in Sonic the hedgehog 2). So, Sonic, Metal Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles, please!

What matter who came first? Blaze came far later than any of the classic characters, but i think she is as good as they are.

P.S. speedfreak, you passed ahead of me))

Edited October 21, 2009 by ArtFenix