Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Amesuki]

Marine? I mean she wasn't really needed in Rush Adventure.

The only doubt or concern I have for this game at the current time is that they DONT put it on their PlaySEGA bullcrap. I hope it's a download for Xbox360/Wii/PS3.

[Nepenthe]

Marine? I mean she wasn't really needed in Rush Adventure.

Again, having a purpose doesn't always equate to being a necessity. A purpose is merely the underlying reason for something, and most everything has a reason regardless of whether any of it is necessary in any context.

Now I haven't touched SRA, but Marine still has a purpose, part of which is to provide comic relief. And doesn't she also rescue Sonic and Tails after the storm, provide them with a base of operations, and help them build various seafaring vehicles? And isn't she also involved in the final battle as well?

If one were to try and make this case, the easiest characters to go after would be Heavy and Bomb as they are specifically put in Chaotix for no reason, but even that is a purpose in and of itself as they provide amusement to the player if nothing else.

Every character in this series has had a use and a purpose whether it be major or minor in the grand scheme of things. That is different from being necessary, but if one wishes to go the necessity route in trying to target specific or hypothetical new characters, then it must be said that everyone who debuted after 1991 could feasibly be written out forever and you'd still be left with enough of a cast to create a bonafide Sonic game.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

It's frankly useless and I'd rather they stick to the classic ones.

Why should they stick with the "classic" characters? Why is it that no one past a certain point deserves this sort of attention? Why do we need this wall? Why do the fans actually support it?

I'm seriously starting to lose it here; the more I think about it the crazier it all looks.

Marine? I mean she wasn't really needed in Rush Adventure.

Not needed=/=useless. Marine's not integral to the basic story, but she helps it along and is a big part of what makes it interesting (well, in my eyes at least...if you don't like Marine, obviously you'd think different).

Quite frankly, a series that limited itself only to the bare minimum requirements would most likely suck. Adding Tails certainly didn't ruin Sonic 2.

[Solid SOAP]

Marine? I mean she wasn't really needed in Rush Adventure.

The only doubt or concern I have for this game at the current time is that they DONT put it on their PlaySEGA bullcrap. I hope it's a download for Xbox360/Wii/PS3.

Personally, I'm rooting for a DVD/Blu-Ray release. They'll be able to fit more into the game, make the graphics better, etc. A short and sweet downloadable game would be great as well, but I'd love a full, beautiful looking, 10+ hour side-scroller with lots of replay value.

Also, it'd give them the opportunity to make a preorder bonus a Genesis/Mega Drive bos with the game art on the front. That'd be boss.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Solid SOAP

[Sean]

Purpose doesn't really mean jack shit to me just as long as I enjoy a character outright. A character who is useless to the plot can be fun and entertaining, while a character who is vital to the storyline can be drab and terrible. There are many characters in various series that serve no real purpose, but who cares just as long as people like them, right? Of course it's a different matter when said character is a pretty bad one.

[Solid SOAP]

I really, really, would prefer it if playable characters were kept to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, and only them. We get to see enough of the latter two (Gameplay-wise), and this is supposed to be a purely classic experience, keep a purely classic selection of characters. I wouldn't mind seeing other characters unlockable though, but keep the story to Sonis, Tails, and Knuckles. Hell, just make beating the game as Sonic escential, but you can unlock characters to play in like, a time attack mode or something. That'd be perfect.

[Vasco]

Why should they stick with the "classic" characters? Why is it that no one past a certain point deserves this sort of attention? Why do we need this wall? Why do the fans actually support it?

I'm seriously starting to lose it here; the more I think about it the crazier it all looks.

Erm, it's just a videogame And I certainly didn't mean new characters didn't deserve attention. I said there is a trend in recent games of bringing up new characters that are pretty much thrown in a big recycle bin. And that can't be good. But don't take my word for it, I'm just the guy who checks the thread for updates that don't exist.

[Indigo Rush]

Pikachu darn well better be playable, and in a sombrero for Pete's sake.

[Solid SOAP]

Why should they stick with the "classic" characters? Why is it that no one past a certain point deserves this sort of attention? Why do we need this wall? Why do the fans actually support it?

I'm seriously starting to lose it here; the more I think about it the crazier it all looks.

Well, not only is this game being heavily implied as a return to roots, it seems appropriate that characters from said roots make appearences, preferably playable. Also, Tails and Knuckles barely get any attention anymore, it'd be nice to be able to play as them again.

[Unknown]

The idea of giving newer characters their own unique abilities a la S3&K never really occurred to me before, but now that I hear it, it sounds like a great idea. However, I think that they'd eventually run out of ideas, or at least having two abilities be too similar (such as Amy having a hammer ability...how would that be made different from Knuckles being able to break walls and such?)

I guess they could always stop before they get to that point, but I just wonder how far they could go, and which characters could realistically work.

As for new characters, I don't really mind either way. I'm not hoping for one or anything, but if one does show up, I won't care that much as long as the character is good. People will complain about it, surely, but knowing the series' reputation, what won't be found fault with in this game?

[Amesuki]

I've got no real grudge against new characters just that when there are so many other ones out there that could easily fill the role then they should use them. I mean they could wrote out Marine easily and just make it Blaze who found Sonic, Blaze who did this and that. It's just gotten into that trend, "in order to make it fresh, add a new character in." Like Chip in Unleashed...seriously...if they wanted annoying little character just add in Charmy or Omochao.

I'm all for adding new characters in, when the characters are actually half decent. Like Blaze and Cream for example. Silver was a waste. I can except Shadow on the grounds on making a bad-dude hedgehog but again in that case why not make it so you played Metal Sonic? Wrote in a plot that Robotnik created Metal Sonic to try and find the ultimate life form and Chaos Emeralds? I wanted so bad to play him when I saw him the tube in SA. Those were the days.

Anyway that aside, I've got high hopes indeed for this. Just hoping its not gunna be exclusive for PlaySEGA

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm seriously starting to lose it here; the more I think about it the crazier it all looks.

Might I suggest some laughter and humor? It helps me soothe my mind when thoughts get crazy...and it helps understand things little better. Though it can come across as very harsh at times.

...things don't have to be that serious tho.

Also, Tails and Knuckles barely get any attention anymore, it'd be nice to be able to play as them again.

That is so wrong and you know it.

Knuckles may be put in places where he can be there just to be there, but he gets attention nonetheless. And Tails still gets attention; the one game he didn't exactly get as much as he does would be Unleashed (to my knowledge at least), and that's the only one exception.

I can except Shadow on the grounds on making a bad-dude hedgehog but again in that case why not make it so you played Metal Sonic?

Different personalities, different purpose, (somewhat) different abilities, and different occupations.

Metal Sonic is more insane, calculating and arrogant (or just a mindless drone if you don't want to count his Heroes version), while Shadow is more calm, collected, yet arrogant.

Metal Sonic was designed to outright kill Sonic by beating him at his own game, while Shadow was designed to solve the secrets of immortality (initially) and then to destroy the world with Prof. Gerald went insane.

Shadow can supposedly control the fabric of time and space and possesses a wide variety of Chaos powers, while Metal Sonic has all of Sonic's abilities can copy and integrate the abilities of a foes special strength and use it for himself.

And lastly, Shadow now occupies a position in the GUN military in keeping the world in order, while Metal Sonic occupies a role as Eggman's most potent weapon made to disrupt that order, with his original objective being to destroy Sonic.

Metal Sonic is more villianious than Shadow is. Shadow may or may not work for good or evil (depending on what influences him), while Metal Sonic works solely for evil.

Edited October 23, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

Why should they stick with the "classic" characters? Why is it that no one past a certain point deserves this sort of attention? Why do we need this wall? Why do the fans actually support it?

I'm seriously starting to lose it here; the more I think about it the crazier it all looks.

For some bizzare reason, many classic fans still think they're in the minority. Believing that they won't be catered to primarily ever again, their recourse is to want their own little series so there will be something for them.

[Diogenes]

I said there is a trend in recent games of bringing up new characters that are pretty much thrown in a big recycle bin. And that can't be good.

So let's not do that by not panicking and hiding behind the word "classic" and leaving these characters to rot.

Well, not only is this game being heavily implied as a return to roots, it seems appropriate that characters from said roots make appearences, preferably playable.

So explain to me, at what point does this stop other characters from also appearing? Why can't we have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Rouge? Or STK and the Chaotix? STK and Blaze and Marine?

Again, I'm not arguing that Tails and Knuckles not get their fair billing; they certainly deserve to show up. But I see no reason to automatically discard the rest of the characters in the series simply because they came later. Does no one else think it'd be nice to see classic-ified versions of modern characters? Or to strip away the layers of unwanted gameplay and roll around at the speed of sound as Silver or Rouge or whoever?

(such as Amy having a hammer ability...how would that be made different from Knuckles being able to break walls and such?)

By not using it just as a thing to smash other things. In past games she's used her hammer to jump higher, bounce higher off springs, hover in the air a bit, and create a tornado. It's not limited just to breaking things.

I mean they could wrote out Marine easily and just make it Blaze who found Sonic, Blaze who did this and that.

You could write out pretty much everyone, but the world would be awfully boring with just two people in it. And you really can't tell me that, of all possible options, Blaze and Marine fill the same role.

It's just gotten into that trend, "in order to make it fresh, add a new character in."

Like the time they gave Sonic a sidekick. Or that thick-skulled enemy-turned-friend. Or when they randomly introduced a love interest and an evil twin in the same game.

I won't deny that they rely on it too much, but it's not an innately flawed technique, and it's certainly nothing new for the series.

Like Chip in Unleashed...seriously...if they wanted annoying little character just add in Charmy or Omochao.

Of course you realize that Chip had a larger role in the game than "small and annoying", and that neither Charmy nor Omochao could possibly fill that role.

[Solid SOAP]

So explain to me, at what point does this stop other characters from also appearing? Why can't we have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Rouge? Or STK and the Chaotix? STK and Blaze and Marine?

I really couldn't give less a damn, I'm just saying it'd be nice to have Tails and Knuckles be playable again and it'd be nice for the "classic cast" to have their own game again. If Shadow or Rouge or anyone appears in this game, I don't care, hell, I'd welcome it as long as they don't put any stupid gimmicks in along with them to ruin the game, but I'm just saying, what, exactly, is wrong for wanting a game that exclusively features Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Robotnik?

[Djawed]

diogones i fully disagree on the character bit. Sonic tails and knuckles. Thats it, no more than that. Those that came after would be nice for downloadable content. An extra for those who want it. I dont wanna see a rouge in my game!!!

[Solid SOAP]

I would welcome with open arms characters beyond the classic trio, but only if they serve as optional characters only, to play for fun. I'd really like the story of this game to mainly focus on Sonic and Robotnik only, with other characters popping up randomly.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

diogones i fully disagree on the character bit. Sonic tails and knuckles. Thats it, no more than that.

I don't think he's saying that every other character should be in the game, but that in the grand scheme of things, Tails and Knuckles are not untouchable and important character, ergo just because these characters game first doesn't mean they're that valuable to the series. And should any other characters outside of the Classic trio just so happen to be in the game, it's not going to harm anything just because they're in the game on the same level as Tails and Knuckles.

I may be wrong, but that's what I interpret from him.

I dont wanna see a rouge in my game!!!

How about you don't play as her?

Edited October 23, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Indigo Rush]

diogones i fully disagree on the character bit. Sonic tails and knuckles. Thats it, no more than that. Those that came after would be nice for downloadable content. An extra for those who want it. I dont wanna see a rouge in my game!!!

omg jaouad is rite screw teh modrn charcterz no one afftr sonic 3 and nkuckles shadow is stupdi am i right :angry:

...might I suggest you listen to yourself? You're sounding pretty ignorant. So what if Rouge makes an appearance? The inclusion of another character and personality isn't going to affect how fast Sonic runs through the levels and zones of this new game.

Also, if there's no one other than Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, then who's going to be the villain? Think before you type.

[speedfreak]

I'd like to think they learned their lesson after 06. Everyone bitched about all those characters. We may get a few other playable characters besides Sonic, but thankfully I think Sonic Team is finally learning not to shoehorn in 5 totally different gameplay styles.

Also if this is a retail release it's got to have more meat to it then the classics did. Sure there were the Chaos Emeralds and multiple routes that added gameplay, but I can't imagine too many people being happy to spend $50-60 on a 2 - 3 hour game. A level creation feature would go over pretty well. Or maybe a mission mode......with actual good, well thought out missions.

Edited October 23, 2009 by speedfreak

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'd like to think they learned their lesson after 06. Everyone bitched about all those characters.

Because they were poorly done and made unfun, not because of the sheer number of characters. Sonic 06 would've been a much better than it was if they didn't half-ass it. People only complained about the number after they complained about the gameplay to vent extra heat.

Edited October 23, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Nepenthe]

I dont wanna see a rouge in my game!!! :angry:

Who in the world said this game was just for you?

Anyways, on this entire character debacle, I see nothing wrong with such a minimalistic approach when it comes to this particular game, although like most I don't personally care who's in it.

The problem is when the attitude that Diogenes is attacking pervades in nearly every single relevant situation because it alone has given certain characters a status that is completely unquestionable and unapproachable. For an example, examine how bitter some people were that Shadow and Big were confirmed before Knuckles was, almost angry that there was even a sliver of a chance of him not appearing, as if this fictional character has some inalienable right to be announced before characters that came after him. Heaven forbid if Silver had been in his stead.

Simply put, it's just quite the elitist attitude. I mean, who in the world wants to be told straight up to their face that their favorite character doesn't "deserve" to be in a new game simply because he or she is too young? Better yet, where in the world did this mindset originate from in the first place, the act of giving characters meaningless rights and privileges?

[speedfreak]

I'm pretty sure a good number of people hated being forced to switch characters during the levels no matter what. Even if everyone controlled fine, if I'm trying to play a level as Sonic then let me play as Sonic. Amigos were the worst horseshit ever.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

For an example, examine how bitter some people were that Shadow and Big were confirmed before Knuckles was, almost angry that there was even a sliver of a chance of him not appearing, as if this fictional character has some inalienable right to be announced before characters that came after him.

You should've been here during the time the first Mario and Sonic Olympic game was anounced.

When Shadow's stats was shown he only had a slight increase in the stamina section for the running event, and people here bitched as if he would be the most overpowered character in the game. It only gets even more ridiculous (or funny if you're like me) when Princess Peach of all characters had better, more balanced speed stats than either Sonic or Shadow.

I still remember the people who bitched about it...but I'm not calling any names. That would be low even for me.

I mean, who in the world wants to be told straight up to their face that their favorite character doesn't "deserve" to be in a new game simply because he or she is too young?

I do, so that I can laugh and ice their fire. It's fun.

...What? I've been doing it all the time lately.

Better yet, where in the world did this mindset originate from in the first place, the act of giving characters meaningless rights and privileges?

Somewhere between Heroes and ShTH. I remember that there was a topic here label "Sick of Shadow Fans" made sometime around Heroes if I remember (Hey, remember that Solid SOAP? ), and the discussion was on the obvious. Back during SA2 we weren't complaining on much as SA2 was considered the pinnacle among many people at that time, but then all this somehow expanded from Shadow to every other character. That's just the summary of it tho.

Edited October 23, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kiljoy]

I just want, at most, Sonic Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles. If they are really going to go back to the roots then just concentrate on a classic style with, at most, those four. As for all this whole discussion on newer character, if they had interesting personalities I don't think as many people would bitch, I am one of the people who think Shadow sucks, I think his character sucks, I think his back story sucks, I think SA2 sucked. Just give me those four, I don't even need them all playable, make it like Sonic 3. Tails following sonic, with Knuckled making appearances and helping to fight Eggman.