Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Sega DogTagz]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:28 PM, Sonictrainer said:

What are the odds that Surge has accidentally zapped Kit or Kit has accidentally splashed Surge?

Thats pretty much how I envision a scuffle with the two of them ending up at least once. If Sonic and Tails can goad Kit into soaking both him and his partner right when she is unleashing one of her electric attacks - then you've got yourself a finishing blow.

 

I am also very curious how the artists will handle a fight between these 4. Sonic doesn't make it a habit of laying out female characters. At most you might get a spindash or a single hit in edgewise. I doubt Sega would let him trade blows with Surge in the same way he would with Shadow or Scourge back in the day.

[Kuzu]

Naw fuck that, if Sonic can scrap with Blaze, then Surge is fair game. 

[Sega DogTagz]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Naw fuck that, if Sonic can scrap with Blaze, then Surge is fair game. 

Scrap sure. But they got creative with that fight back in the comics too. I honestly cant recall Sonic even landing a blow on Blaze back when they fought in 161.

Sonic beat her by running around her fast enough to deprive her and her flames of oxygen. Sure they fought, but Sonic didn't exactly punch her in the face.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Well, that’s interesting to know. Was he going to be an enemy of the Kingdom of Mercia, one of Abyss’s old crew mates, a special infiltrator of the Egg Army, or the same lone Wolf he is now?

I'm not sure, but he might've been a Meropis if I had to guess? The concept of a shape shifting Octopus with a knife seems like it'd just fit better when it's causing problems for a Kingdom with a touring Princess and a former pirate who wields his own [shark tooth(?)]knife.

Though a connection with Abyss wouldn't shock either.

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Well, that’s interesting to know. Was he going to be an enemy of the Kingdom of Mercia, one of Abyss’s old crew mates, a special infiltrator of the Egg Army, or the same lone Wolf he is now?

The idea wasn't far enough along for his role to have even been considered. Mimic was just a basic concept that they never got around to exploring until IDW.

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Thats pretty much how I envision a scuffle with the two of them ending up at least once. If Sonic and Tails can goad Kit into soaking both him and his partner right when she is unleashing one of her electric attacks - then you've got yourself a finishing blow.

 

I am also very curious how the artists will handle a fight between these 4. Sonic doesn't make it a habit of laying out female characters. At most you might get a spindash or a single hit in edgewise. I doubt Sega would let him trade blows with Surge in the same way he would with Shadow or Scourge back in the day.

No, I think given how Surge is being portrayed, she'll be fair game. Blaze is probably the only female character before now that he's fought who could withstand his power, and Surge will probably be similar.

That said, I think the actual rival fight won't  happen for a while.

On 11/8/2021 at 10:12 AM, Jack-al said:

I have a new hot take: Trial by Fire (so far) > Test Run & Zeti Hunt

I don't know how popular this opinion is, but Test Run might be the worst arc yet.

It wasn't bad, but it seems even more filler-y than Fallout due to how unimportant everything is. And I wouldn't mind filler too much if was fun and gave some underutilized characters the time to shine, but instead the story starred Sonic, Tails, Amy, Belle, and Tangle, the exact list I would describe if I was asked which characters have been given more than enough time to shine and I wanted a break from.

[Sega DogTagz]

46 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

No, I think given how Surge is being portrayed, she'll be fair game. Blaze is probably the only female character before now that he's fought who could withstand his power, and Surge will probably be similar.

That said, I think the actual rival fight won't  happen for a while.

 

Just to clear up what I'm trying to say a bit.

Its not that Sonic can't fight female characters. He does that all the time. He threw hands with a small handful of the female EggBosses, Bunnie Rabbot once or twice and there are a bunch of other examples.

Its just that the artists have to contort their usual safe zones in order to avoid painting a licensed character in a bad light. You cant have a half page splash panel of Sonic punching Fiona, or Blaze, or any girl in the face the same way you would if he were fighting a guy. Its just how this works.

It is possible to draw out a good fight scene even with this handicap, it just takes a bit of extra thinking. A good example of this is the Thicker than water plotline from Archie Sonic 217-218. Sonic and Bunnie faced off in a destructive fight sequence that was highly entertaining, and still accomplished the narrative without having Sonic having to actually hit a girl, or either being forced to hurt a friend.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they play this one when the time comes. There is a lot of wiggle room to create a memorable 2 v 2 matchup.

 

EDIT

In fact, I am almost 1000% sure that in time Starline will reveal that one of the reasons he decided to make Surge female is so that Sonic would be forced to pull his punches.

[CertifiedNobody]

19 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

EDIT

In fact, I am almost 1000% sure that in time Starline will reveal that one of the reasons he decided to make Surge female is so that Sonic would be forced to pull his punches.

Sonic's always pulling his punches, but I don't think that game Sonic would hold back any extra when fighting a female enemy. He didn't seem to in Black Knight or Sonic Rush.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Thats pretty much how I envision a scuffle with the two of them ending up at least once. If Sonic and Tails can goad Kit into soaking both him and his partner right when she is unleashing one of her electric attacks - then you've got yourself a finishing blow.

 

I am also very curious how the artists will handle a fight between these 4. Sonic doesn't make it a habit of laying out female characters. At most you might get a spindash or a single hit in edgewise. I doubt Sega would let him trade blows with Surge in the same way he would with Shadow or Scourge back in the day.

There's also Zeena.

58 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

 

 

I don't know how popular this opinion is, but Test Run might be the worst arc yet.

It wasn't bad, but it seems even more filler-y than Fallout due to how unimportant everything is. And I wouldn't mind filler too much if was fun and gave some underutilized characters the time to shine, but instead the story starred Sonic, Tails, Amy, Belle, and Tangle, the exact list I would describe if I was asked which characters have been given more than enough time to shine and I wanted a break from.

I mean, Belle was new at the time--the weariness only started to set in when the actual reveal of her creator happened over half a year after her introduction.

15 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Just to clear up what I'm trying to say a bit.

Its not that Sonic can't fight female characters. He does that all the time. He threw hands with a small handful of the female EggBosses, Bunnie Rabbot once or twice and there are a bunch of other examples.

Its just that the artists have to contort their usual safe zones in order to avoid painting a licensed character in a bad light. You cant have a half page splash panel of Sonic punching Fiona, or Blaze, or any girl in the face the same way you would if he were fighting a guy. Its just how this works.

It is possible to draw out a good fight scene even with this handicap, it just takes a bit of extra thinking. A good example of this is the Thicker than water plotline from Archie Sonic 217-218. Sonic and Bunnie faced off in a destructive fight sequence that was highly entertaining, and still accomplished the narrative without having Sonic having to actually hit a girl, or either being forced to hurt a friend.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they play this one when the time comes. There is a lot of wiggle room to create a memorable 2 v 2 matchup.

 

EDIT

In fact, I am almost 1000% sure that in time Starline will reveal that one of the reasons he decided to make Surge female is so that Sonic would be forced to pull his punches.

Good thing she has something of a punchable face then

[Kuzu]

46 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Just to clear up what I'm trying to say a bit.

Its not that Sonic can't fight female characters. He does that all the time. He threw hands with a small handful of the female EggBosses, Bunnie Rabbot once or twice and there are a bunch of other examples.

Its just that the artists have to contort their usual safe zones in order to avoid painting a licensed character in a bad light. You cant have a half page splash panel of Sonic punching Fiona, or Blaze, or any girl in the face the same way you would if he were fighting a guy. Its just how this works.

It is possible to draw out a good fight scene even with this handicap, it just takes a bit of extra thinking. A good example of this is the Thicker than water plotline from Archie Sonic 217-218. Sonic and Bunnie faced off in a destructive fight sequence that was highly entertaining, and still accomplished the narrative without having Sonic having to actually hit a girl, or either being forced to hurt a friend.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they play this one when the time comes. There is a lot of wiggle room to create a memorable 2 v 2 matchup.

 

EDIT

In fact, I am almost 1000% sure that in time Starline will reveal that one of the reasons he decided to make Surge female is so that Sonic would be forced to pull his punches.

Ya know, this is a good way of destroying her credibility as a rival to Sonic, just sayin.  

Like....I get it logically, but it would really suck (and be kind of sexist, let's be real) if Sonic refuses to take Surge seriously all because of her gender. That I feel is much more damaging to Sonic's character than the alternative.

 

It's 2021, trying to enforce such strict gender roles in this day and age is more eye-brow raising than anything.

[Sega DogTagz]

9 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Ya know, this is a good way of destroying her credibility as a rival to Sonic, just sayin.  

Like....I get it logically, but it would really suck (and be kind of sexist, let's be real) if Sonic refuses to take Surge seriously all because of her gender. That I feel is much more damaging to Sonic's character than the alternative.

 

It's 2021, trying to enforce such strict gender roles in this day and age is more eye-brow raising than anything.

 

Depends on how you look at it. Starline is trying to give his creation every possible advantage.

I'd agree in principle on the sexist front, but we have to put an asterisk on that topic because this is not an IDW IP. We all know you can't play fast and loose with someone else's IP (thats what sunk Archie). On some scale, it is kind of sexist that you cant draw Sonic punching a villain in the face, for the sole reason that its a girl, but that's the world we live in. If Sega was penning the comic and they wanted to challenge that paradigm, then sure whatever. But it certainly is not the place of a third party semi-official licensed product to dip a toe in that water.

Yes, 2021 and all that, but if you ask me, if someone went out on a ledge and decided to push that point - I would probably claim they were doing it for the shock value and not to make some point about equality. But that's just me.

and back to the point, that far from means Sonic won't be able to take Surge seriously. It just means that when they do fight, Sonic will be much more likely to look for ways to do environmental or indirect damage to Surge rather than his usual tactics of "punch it harder".

[StaticMania]

18 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

...doing it for the shock value and not to make some point about equality.

The equality "is" the shock, that's why people always have to point it out.

[KoDaiko]

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

On some scale, it is kind of sexist that you cant draw Sonic punching a villain in the face, for the sole reason that its a girl, but that's the world we live in.

[...]

Yes, 2021 and all that, but if you ask me, if someone went out on a ledge and decided to push that point - I would probably claim they were doing it for the shock value and not to make some point about equality. But that's just me.

It's funny, I see many demand of strong independent female characters nowadays, but also say hurting/treating them the same as the guys is bad. From what I know, girl vs girl is considered "cat fighting" (was told this in RL) or "unrealistic"...boy vs boy is "too normal" "boring"...boy vs girl is "sexist" "unfair"...

Tbh Surge doesn't look like the type to pull the "OH are you gonna hit a Guuurl?" card, or Sonic to care about those thing when fighting 'bad guys'. And having/beating female baddies isn't anything new in fiction. Ian said he'd want a female villain that shows girls they can be badass (and evil) like the boys. If they said "Oh but hitting girls is a no-no, even if they're evil" that sounds like a terrible message. Saying justice is equal is more fitting to the Sonic series.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

15 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

It's funny, I see many demand of strong independent female characters nowadays, but also say hurting/treating them the same as the guys is bad. From what I know, girl vs girl is considered "cat fighting" (was told this in RL) or "unrealistic"...boy vs boy is "too normal" "boring"...boy vs girl is "sexist" "unfair"...

I don't think you necessarily need to connect those two dots though. Strong Female characters aren't defined by their ability to take a punch.

and its not completely relevant anyway. This is an issue of image, not of gender. The same rules that are binding Sonic here, do not apply to other male Characters like Shadow. Lets not forget that this same staff has depicted Shadow quite literally dropping the hammer on Amy, because as a grey get-results-first kind of guy its not as much of a taboo for him to do something like that. It doesn't necessarily tarnish his image to use brute force against a girl because his convictions do not hold him back from doing so. If the comic is going to depict a boy hitting a girl, the situations and optics have to be right. 

Its not an issue of boy hits girl = thats not fair. Its in an issue of brand appeal and Sonic not being the kind of character to do that.

 

15 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

If they said "Oh but hitting girls is a no-no, even if they're evil" that sounds like a terrible message. Saying justice is equal is more fitting to the Sonic series.

Nobody is saying that.

None of this actually prevents Sonic from fighting Surge or administering Justice. The only difference is his fighting strategy will have more prevalence. 

[Razule]

There haven't been that female characters for Sonic to fight though. There's like four, and the only one he ever had any beef with was Blaze, and they fought (in gameplay). I can't say I can see Sonic wailing on a woman the way he does Phantom Zavok in Forces, but Sonic doesn't punch and kick that often anyway. He just spins. Sonic's never punched Eggman, but there's no "Sonic cannot punch Eggman because it would make him look unheroic" mandate. .. or is there..? 

I don't want to detract from the topic, but I'm actually just realizing Sonic has somehow never punched Eggman in any of the three decades of official Sonic media . Only the other way around. How??

[Rabbitearsblog]

19 minutes ago, Razule said:

There haven't been that female characters for Sonic to fight though. There's like four, and the only one he ever had any beef with was Blaze, and they fought (in gameplay). I can't say I can see Sonic wailing on a woman the way he does Phantom Zavok in Forces, but Sonic doesn't punch and kick that often anyway. He just spins. Sonic's never punched Eggman, but there's no "Sonic cannot punch Eggman because it would make him look unheroic" mandate. .. or is there..? 

I don't want to detract from the topic, but I'm actually just realizing Sonic has somehow never punched Eggman in any of the three decades of official Sonic media . Only the other way around. How??

Hmmm...this would be interesting to have Sonic actually punch Eggman...

[Sonictrainer]

Hey, did anyone notice this?

 

[CertifiedNobody]

40 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Hey, did anyone notice this?

 

Oh wow you're right. Does Belle have a new little brother?

Also, side note, but I'm glad the comic went with the Generations Motobug design rather than the absolutely terrible one from Lost World.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

There haven't been that female characters for Sonic to fight though. There's like four, and the only one he ever had any beef with was Blaze, and they fought (in gameplay). I can't say I can see Sonic wailing on a woman the way he does Phantom Zavok in Forces, but Sonic doesn't punch and kick that often anyway. He just spins. Sonic's never punched Eggman, but there's no "Sonic cannot punch Eggman because it would make him look unheroic" mandate. .. or is there..? 

I don't want to detract from the topic, but I'm actually just realizing Sonic has somehow never punched Eggman in any of the three decades of official Sonic media . Only the other way around. How??

Even with the lack of Female villains, Sonic has had opportunities. The STF arc back in Archie pitted Honey against both Sonic and Tails (neither was able to land a clean blow on her - all Sonic could manage was a throw) and Knuckles conveniently missed a distracted Amy to obliterate the ground right next to her.

I mean, its pretty clear they pick and choose who can be drawn to hit a girl and who cant.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Even with the lack of Female villains, Sonic has had opportunities. The STF arc back in Archie pitted Honey against both Sonic and Tails (neither was able to land a clean blow on her - all Sonic could manage was a throw) and Knuckles conveniently missed a distracted Amy to obliterate the ground right next to her.

I mean, its pretty clear they pick and choose who can be drawn to hit a girl and who cant.

Probably because Amy's only slightly more powerful than a civilian and Knuckles would have obliterated her? It wasn't because she was a girl, it's because he wasn't going to kill his friend. Even if Sega doesn't show it often in the modern games, Knuckles canonically rivals Sonic and Shadow in power.

Also I don't really see the point in using Archie for examples given how much Sonic's personality diverges in each continuity. Fleetway Sonic would probably kill a woman with no hesitation.

[Sega DogTagz]

3 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Probably because Amy's only slightly more powerful than a civilian and Knuckles would have obliterated her? It wasn't because she was a girl, it's because he wasn't going to kill his friend. Even if Sega doesn't show it often in the modern games, Knuckles canonically rivals Sonic and Shadow in power.

That was literally a fighting competition that they all agreed to compete in. Knuckles had no reason not to punch Amy.

Except the writers/artists conveniently found a humorous work-a-round that avoids the issue completely.

3 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Also I don't really see the point in using Archie for examples given how much Sonic's personality diverges in each continuity. Fleetway Sonic would probably kill a woman with no hesitation.

I use Archie as an example because IDW carries over much of the same art and writing staff. How they were handled then is relevant to how they may be handled now. Ian is still Ian. ect.

IDW also carries all the game lore history, so how he is depicted there also carries weight. We can probably ignore most else.

[CertifiedNobody]

16 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

That was literally a fighting competition that they all agreed to compete in. Knuckles had no reason not to punch Amy.

Except the writers/artists conveniently found a humorous work-a-round that avoids the issue completely.

I use Archie as an example because IDW carries over much of the same art and writing staff. How they were handled then is relevant to how they may be handled now. Ian is still Ian. ect.

IDW also carries all the game lore history, so how he is depicted there also carries weight. We can probably ignore most else.

No reason? What? He's strong enough to eviscerate the arena and has spiked fists. That's more than enough reason! Unless you're Sonic, a single hit from him is a death blow.

Ehh sort of. IDW is basically a second Archie reboot, but the writers change the characters up every reset. For example, IDW Amy and Archie Amy are very different.

[dbzfan7]

Thought Imposter Syndrome was today cause of the tab on the main page, but it's actually next week.

[thumbs13]

10 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I don't think you necessarily need to connect those two dots though. Strong Female characters aren't defined by their ability to take a punch.

and its not completely relevant anyway. This is an issue of image, not of gender. The same rules that are binding Sonic here, do not apply to other male Characters like Shadow. Lets not forget that this same staff has depicted Shadow quite literally dropping the hammer on Amy, because as a grey get-results-first kind of guy its not as much of a taboo for him to do something like that. It doesn't necessarily tarnish his image to use brute force against a girl because his convictions do not hold him back from doing so. If the comic is going to depict a boy hitting a girl, the situations and optics have to be right. 

Its not an issue of boy hits girl = thats not fair. Its in an issue of brand appeal and Sonic not being the kind of character to do that.

 

 

It doesn't happen often because female characters in Sonic are like a drop in the ocean, but you push Blaze off a ledge in a game that came out in 2005.

 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

10 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Hey, did anyone notice this?

 

GOD, WE ALL SO BLIND.

 

[DabigRG]

21 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

It's funny, I see many demand of strong independent female 

Tbh Surge doesn't look like the type to pull the "OH are you gonna hit a Guuurl?" card, or Sonic to care about those thing when fighting 'bad guys'. And having/beating female baddies isn't anything new in fiction. Ian said he'd want a female villain that shows girls they can be badass (and evil) like the boys. If they said "Oh but hitting girls is a no-no, even if they're evil" that sounds like a terrible message. Saying justice is equal is more fitting to the Sonic series.

 

I mean, she could be, but she'd also likely welcome it.

19 hours ago, Razule said:

There haven't been that female characters for Sonic to fight though. There's like four, and the only one he ever had any beef with was Blaze, and they fought (in gameplay). I can't say I can see Sonic wailing on a woman the way he does Phantom Zavok in Forces, but Sonic doesn't punch and kick that often anyway. He just spins. Sonic's never punched Eggman, but there's no "Sonic cannot punch Eggman because it would make him look unheroic" mandate. .. or is there..? 

I don't want to detract from the topic, but I'm actually just realizing Sonic has somehow never punched Eggman in any of the three decades of official Sonic media . Only the other way around. How??

He does during Endgame.

Other than that though, it's not really his style

18 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Hey, did anyone notice this?

 

Yes? I thought it was pretty obvious

18 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Oh wow you're right. Does Belle have a new little brother?

Also, side note, but I'm glad the comic went with the Generations Motobug design rather than the absolutely terrible one from Lost World.

Eh, I'm honestly a little split on it.

17 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

No reason? What? He's strong enough to eviscerate the arena and has spiked fists. That's more than enough reason! Unless you're Sonic, a single hit from him is a death blow.

Ehh sort of. IDW is basically a second Archie reboot, but the writers change the characters up every reset. For example, IDW Amy and Archie Amy are very different.

We've seen him hit weaker characters dead on with no problem before.