Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Blue Wisp]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Here's my problem...

The planet SHATTERED...

But there are NO signs of seismic activity...

Not a single example of any earthquakes or anything...

Again the planet was SHATTERED but somehow every continent looks picture perfect and ready for tourism...

And, you know, the oceans are still there...

So yeah, even when the 3D games post the Genesis series have TRIED to implement Genesis scenarios/stakes/consequences and what have you, ultimately they come off as nonsensical and fall flat.

Realism in a game about an anthropomorphic hedgehog is asking too much for me. But I can see why you'd like to see something like that. Different people want different things.

To each his own. If Sonic Forces is fun that's all I need.  

[Roger_van_der_weide]

23 minutes ago, Roboat06 said:

Yeah, the latest games have been a little corny...

Which is fine, we needed a lot of corny after Sonic 06. Don't want to entirely condemn modern Sonic for this.
But a lot of us are suffering corny overload now, which is why so many were looking forward to Sonic Forces.

And are now overreacting over every trace of unwelcome corn that shows up in the trailers.

Oh well, regardless if the game will be good or bad, I can tell it will be prime parody material already, so either way I'll get some mileage out of it.

9 minutes ago, Ariel the Blue Wisp said:

Realism in a game about an anthropomorphic hedgehog is asking too much for me. But I can see why you'd like to see something like that. Different people want different things.

How cartoon characters BEHAVE is much more important to suspension of disbelief then how they look, far's I'm concerned.

Besides, It's not so much about Realism, even a cartoony "AGHH THE WORLD IS BREAKING DOWN! WHAAAH!!!" reacton would have sufficed.
But even on a dumb cartoon level, I can't connect with the townsfolk in Unleashed.

But yeah, it's a platform game, it's about gameplay. Story doesn't matter. Unleashed is great fun to play. But story can enhance the experience. So it's still a bummer if it makes unnecesairy mistakes.

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Which is fine, we needed a lot of corny after Sonic 06. Don't want to entirely condemn modern Sonic for this.
But a lot of us are suffering corny overload now, which is why so many were looking forward to Sonic Forces.

And are now overreacting over every trace of unwelcome corn that shows up in the trailers.

Oh well, regardless if the game will be good or bad, I can tell it will be prime parody material already, so either way I'll get some mileage out of it.

I wonder if this reception means the next game will be another 06 direction kind of game.

"We went serious, but it wasn't enough..."

"So now...

"Get ready for REALLY serious!! This time, Sonic gets stabbed TWICE!!"

...As a, you know, drastic example. lol

[Jango]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

It's always nicer to have a Generations or Mania situation on our hands where everyone is cheering, but unlike S4 or Boom there's not really a lot of hate going on for Forces. It's just one collective sigh. We're all disappointed together.

I love this fanbase. We either die together or kill each other.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Roboat06 said:

The Chao Garden is a great passtime, but it hasn't returned ever.

Good.

May it burn in the 90s fad fires.

[Polkadi~☆]

31 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Good.

May it burn in the 90s fad fires.

I think I heard a distant noise, somewhere...

Oh, there it is now.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Jango]

So, you guys think if Sonic Forces fails as hard as... Sonic Unleashed (I mean with the critics, I know a lot of fans really enjoy it, myself included), Sonic Team could stop making Modern Sonic games? Bad scores and poor sales will most certainly hurt the team, especially because this is basically Sonic Generations 2, which was well received... But. Seeing how clueless Sonic Team is, having the type of gameplay they most likely believe it's their best, now fail too... Geez.

[Tracker_TD]

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

So, you guys think if Sonic Forces fails as hard as... Sonic Unleashed (I mean with the critics, I know a lot of fans really enjoy it, myself included), Sonic Team could stop making Modern Sonic games? Bad scores and poor sales will most certainly hurt the team, especially because this is basically Sonic Generations 2, which was well received... But. Seeing how clueless Sonic Team is, having the type of gameplay they most likely believe it's their best, now fail too... Geez.

Nah, nothing's going to kill Modern Sonic at this point.

Only way I could see that happen is if Mania does insanely well, its inevitable sequel does insanely well, and so forth. And then maaaaaybe we'll see Classic return as the main focus, but even then I doubt they'd drop Modern entirely. There's a huge chunk of the fanbase that loves him over Classic, and fair play to em because we're all wrong sometimes. 

If 06 didn't kill him, this certainly won't. 

[Shiny Gems]

Why are some people apparently thinking the game will fail? I mean, I understand Classic Sonic's gameplay, but that was just the first level, and not the entirety of all classic Sonic's stages. Aside from that, and excluding the third gameplay style, which we do not know of as of yet, I don't see what is wrong with modern Sonic, aside from some wanting something else instead of boost gameplay. I think modern Sonic looks good so far, but there is still more needed to be seen, so I must not judge my thoughts until we have seen more of it. Still, I don't understand how this game seems that bad. Well, aside from Classic Sonic's gameplay, like I said, but still...

Sorry if this seemed...unnecessary. I just had to get something off my chest.

[The Deleter]

6 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Why are some people apparently thinking the game will fail? I mean, I understand Classic Sonic's gameplay, but that was just the first level, and not the entirety of all classic Sonic's stages. Aside from that, and excluding the third gameplay style, which we do not know of as of yet, I don't see what is wrong with modern Sonic, aside from some wanting something else instead of boost gameplay. I think modern Sonic looks good so far, but there is still more needed to be seen, so I must not judge my thoughts until we have seen more of it. Still, I don't understand how this game seems that bad. Well, aside from Classic Sonic's gameplay, like I said, but still...

Sorry if this seemed...unnecessary. I just had to get something off my chest.

 

On 4/29/2017 at 2:27 AM, The Deleter said:

This is what Colors' first stage looks like:

This is what Sonic Generations' first stage looks like:

And this is what Unleashed's first stage looks like:

 

Out of all of those, which looked the most similar to Forces' modern gameplay design?

 

Not even gonna add this post to an argument, just asking which one you think looks the closest.

And don't include graphics in the comparison. It's all about the gameplay design. The way the hallways are built and the player travels through them, the challenges in the player's path, etc.

It's not that it necessarily looks bad as of yet, per se, but the circumstances around it and what's been shown so far, doesn't instill much hope that it'll follow in its more ambitious, 3D capitalizing brothers footsteps. At least, that's the case for me as of now.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Why are some people apparently thinking the game will fail?

Pretty much everything about it looks awful.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

I mean, I understand Classic Sonic's gameplay, but that was just the first level, and not the entirety of all classic Sonic's stages.

And why should we assume that later levels will be better? More complex, sure, a game's first level is always more simple than its last level. But the problem with Forces GHZ isn't that it's just simple, it's that it's outright badly designed. There's no reason to think that the bad design philosophies that resulted in Forces GHZ won't also be present in the rest of the game.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Aside from that, and excluding the third gameplay style, which we do not know of as of yet, I don't see what is wrong with modern Sonic, aside from some wanting something else instead of boost gameplay.

Boost gameplay itself is the problem, and not simply "wanting something else". Boost gameplay has always been shallow and heavy on automation, and even from what little they've shown of it it's clear that they have no intention of addressing those issues. If anything, they're leaning into it even harder than they used to, given that they've shown us nothing but a narrow hallway littered with boost pads and homing attack chains.

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

 

It's not that it necessarily looks bad as of yet, per se, but the circumstances around it and what's been shown so far, doesn't instill much hope that it'll follow in its more ambitious, 3D capitalizing brothers footsteps. At least, that's the case for me as of now.

Um, I don't see how modern Sonic Forces gameplay is that different from the three gameplays above. Modern Sonic Forces looks fine, and let me state that those three videos are of finished builds of their respective games. The gameplay we got for modern Sonic Forces's gameplay is not. And we still haven't seen the whole level of that game, compared to the levels in the videos you posted. Just saying.

 

Just now, Diogenes said:

Pretty much everything about it looks awful.

And why should we assume that later levels will be better? More complex, sure, a game's first level is always more simple than its last level. But the problem with Forces GHZ isn't that it's just simple, it's that it's outright badly designed. There's no reason to think that the bad design philosophies that resulted in Forces GHZ won't also be present in the rest of the game.

Boost gameplay itself is the problem, and not simply "wanting something else". Boost gameplay has always been shallow and heavy on automation, and even from what little they've shown of it it's clear that they have no intention of addressing those issues. If anything, they're leaning into it even harder than they used to, given that they've shown us nothing but a narrow hallway littered with boost pads and homing attack chains.

You're not hoping for the worst on purpose, are you? Boost is fun, not just to me, but plenty of others. Why else did they bring it back? Why else was it quite successful to many fans and critics alike? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad. Plus, boost games are quite playable and not automated. You're not going to let some automation ruin a game for you, are you? And no reason to think the levels won't get better later on in the game as well (in regards to both modern and classic Sonic gameplay). Let me state that modern Sonic Forces is just the first level of the game and we have not seen it completely. There is no reason nor need to assume for the worst and think later levels won't be the same. Who knows? They could be better than you think. Don't judge and assume, just wait until we see more.

[Zippo]

4 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

There's almost a kind of solidarity around here with the way that so many people disappointed in this game. So many people just seem to share the opinion that it's an underwhelming game in a number of ways, and it's nice to see that fairly universal response. It's always nicer to have a Generations or Mania situation on our hands where everyone is cheering, but unlike S4 or Boom there's not really a lot of hate going on for Forces. It's just one collective sigh. We're all disappointed together. 

Yeah, it's actually kind of amusing. Most people from what I've seen, don't really seem to think Forces is going to be garbage or anything, as Sonic Team have proven themselves to at least make structurally solid games, it's more like one giant, apathetic "....really? No improvement whatsoever?"

[Sonikko]

While it's true that the modern sections of the games tend to open up as you progress through the game, both in Unleashed and Generations (more in the latter tbh), I'm afraid they went for the Colours approach.

The modern Sonic footage we've been shown looks very reminiscent of Colours, and that game had very little 3D gameplay in place, and the few 3D sections it had were shallow too. I'd prefer for the game to go the Generations route and actually try on the 3D side.

I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong, but I just can't shake this feeling that we're getting a Lost World meets Colours with this game, and it does not sound nice to me. 

 

I'm sure the game is going to do just fine saleswise, it's just not going to be a groundbreaking entry in the franchise, or the saviour that some think this franchise needs. It's just going to be another "eh" game imho.

[Badnik Mechanic]

32 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Why are some people apparently thinking the game will fail? I mean, I understand Classic Sonic's gameplay, but that was just the first level,

It is not just the first level though. 

Read this.

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/04/the-spin-sonic-forces-me-to-write-this/

I noted down almost every issue I had with the GHZ and then I looked at the 30 seconds of modern gameplay and noticed the same issues are in that too.

And it's the same issues which have plagued the series since 2006.

[The Deleter]

7 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Um, I don't see how modern Sonic Forces gameplay is that different from the three gameplays above. Modern Sonic Forces looks fine, and let me state that those three videos are of finished builds of their respective games. The gameplay we got for modern Sonic Forces's gameplay is not. And we still haven't seen the whole level of that game, compared to the levels in the videos you posted. Just saying.

Fair enough, but my point with that post was to see if someone recognised how the game looks far closer to Color's design than not. And I keep repeating it, but the level designer of Colors is also the director behind this game as of now, (he could be in the level design position simultaniously as well, like Iizuka and Sonic Heroes) and a preview mentions alternate paths only once the game moves to 2D.

That's the main difference I'm getting at. I don't know if it will absolutely follow Color's design 1:1, but it is what I see the game ending up being as of now.

Quote

You're not hoping for the worst on purpose, are you? Boost is fun, not just to me, but plenty of others. Why else did they bring it back? Why else was it quite successful to many fans and critics alike? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad. Plus, boost games are quite playable and not automated. You're not going to let some automation ruin a game for you, are you? And no reason to think the levels won't get better later on in the game as well (in regards to both modern and classic Sonic gameplay). Let me state that modern Sonic Forces is just the first level of the game and we have not seen it completely. There is no reason nor need to assume for the worst and think later levels won't be the same. Who knows? They could be better than you think. Don't judge and assume, just wait until we see more.

People assumed the worst for the Classic Sonic footage, despite the small sample size to get a feel of the design, and yet they ended up being correct. Fair enough that the game isn't guaranteed to go the same route in all other instances, but why would their instincts about this be of less value than assuming it'll all be hunky dory, when it they weren't before?

It isn't just a case of "be pessimistic, or be optimistic" either, here. You can tell how a designer designs things from a small sample of their work, even if it's not entirely accurate. It shouldn't be any different for a crafted and designed video game.

[Dejimon11]

35 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Why are some people apparently thinking the game will fail? I mean, I understand Classic Sonic's gameplay, but that was just the first level, and not the entirety of all classic Sonic's stages. Aside from that, and excluding the third gameplay style, which we do not know of as of yet, I don't see what is wrong with modern Sonic, aside from some wanting something else instead of boost gameplay. I think modern Sonic looks good so far, but there is still more needed to be seen, so I must not judge my thoughts until we have seen more of it. Still, I don't understand how this game seems that bad. Well, aside from Classic Sonic's gameplay, like I said, but still...

Sorry if this seemed...unnecessary. I just had to get something off my chest.

I don't think the game will fail critically considering how much time they've put into this game and with SEGA wanting to keep their promise to make better quality games I think it'll do well. Now finically since it's releasing during the holidays......eh

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

You're not hoping for the worst on purpose, are you?

No, I'm looking at the history of this series and making the most reasonable prediction based on the information that we have.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Boost is fun, not just to me, but plenty of others. Why else did they bring it back? Why else was it quite successful to many fans and critics alike?

The boost has had a moderate amount of success because it looks pretty, the games aren't buggy as fuck, if you only play it once and/or don't think about it you don't realize how little they offer, and the most recent alternative was the game that cemented Sonic's position as a complete and total embarrassment. The boost isn't good, it's just less of a failure than what came before. And because Sonic Team sucks, instead of making any effort to improve, they're riding it hard until it dies, just like they did with the Adventure gameplay.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Plus, boost games are quite playable and not automated. You're not going to let some automation ruin a game for you, are you?

I don't "let" automation ruin the game, the automation does it on its own whether I want it to or not. That's kind of how automation works.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

And no reason to think the levels won't get better later on in the game as well (in regards to both modern and classic Sonic gameplay).

The history of this series is more than enough reason to expect that it won't get any better. How many times have we gone through this now? When something in a Sonic game looks bad in a trailer or a preview or a demo, it's bound to stay bad.

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Let me state that modern Sonic Forces is just the first level of the game and we have not seen it completely. There is no reason nor need to assume for the worst and think later levels won't be the same. Who knows? They could be better than you think. Don't judge and assume, just wait until we see more.

You ever notice that no one ever says this to people who are happy with what they've seen? This is only ever used to try to shut up people who don't like something you like.

[Sonikko]

17 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

It isn't just a case of "be pessimistic, or be optimistic" either, here. You can tell how a designer designs things from a small sample of their work, even if it's not entirely accurate. It shouldn't be any different for a crafted and designed video game.

This. This so much.

10 seconds of footage are not enough to judge a whole game, by any means. But they are enough to get a grasp of the designers ideas, and point out the flaws we see in them. 

The way modern Sonic moves resembles Colours almost 1:1, and there was a reason if Sonic moved the way it did in that game. Let me explain that!

 

Sonic in Colours had very stiff movements in 3D, it was ok if you tried to just move forward, it felt very awkward and slippery if you tried to turn or lean to the left or right. The reason for that is that you almost never need to move in a different direction other than forward. The way a character moves is designed in conjunction with the level design, remember the classics, where the level design was built around the physics?

If you have Sonic focusing on just going forward, it means that you don't plan to use the left or right movement in the 3D space in a meaningful way. Which means you're dumbing down the platforming for more spectacle, or just using simple hallways as 3D sections.

 

This section right here was the best that Colours had to offer in relation to 3D platforming, and as you can see it's not the best. 

If Forces is taking the same approach, and it surely looks like it, colour me disappointed. Generations had so much good stuff going on, why should I settle for less than that?

Sure, we've seen 40 seconds of the first level, but as I said before, it's all about the design approach they've shown.

EDIT: I should add that the game needs to feel cohesive, so if they took some kind of approach with classic Sonic, they're taking the same approach with modern Sonic, it's not like you have two different directors for each portion of the game. It's like listening to an album, you can tell each song is different, but every single one of them still part of a cohesive project (most of the time) and must feel at home.

If classic is automated and has no physics, so is modern.

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, Sonikko said:

While it's true that the modern sections of the games tend to open up as you progress through the game, both in Unleashed and Generations (more in the latter tbh), I'm afraid they went for the Colours approach.

The modern Sonic footage we've been shown looks very reminiscent of Colours, and that game had very little 3D gameplay in place, and the few 3D sections it had were shallow too. I'd prefer for the game to go the Generations route and actually try on the 3D side.

I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong, but I just can't shake this feeling that we're getting a Lost World meets Colours with this game, and it does not sound nice to me. 

I guess I understand your concern. But I personally have a feeling things will be better as we see more of the game. We haven't seen much of the first level to judge the whole game enough by anyway. It can't be like Colors all the way, even with Colors' director directing this game, right?

3 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

It is not just the first level though. 

Read this.

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/04/the-spin-sonic-forces-me-to-write-this/

I noted down almost every issue I had with the GHZ and then I looked at the 30 seconds of modern gameplay and noticed the same issues are in that too.

And it's the same issues which have plagued the series since 2006.

I have read what you have said, and ignoring the classic Sonic bits, and focusing on the modern Sonic bits, I think you are taking the "excuses are not valid" part way too literally. I believe it it is a valid excuse, especially since they have shown nothing else from what was shown. Maybe that isn't saying much on my part, but we should at least wait until we see more levels, 2 or 3 more, at least. Validity may be moreso in what you said, provided that nothing has changed.

 

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

It isn't just a case of "be pessimistic, or be optimistic" either, here. You can tell how a designer designs things from a small sample of their work, even if it's not entirely accurate. It shouldn't be any different for a crafted and designed video game.

 

Even if that is true, I believe you don't see everything about how a designer makes things in just one level. In other games, there have been levels that became increasingly harder and thus not the same. You might know that, but classic Sonic is likely to have plenty of levels. I don't believe all levels are designed the same. Maybe some similarities, and I am not saying later levels will necessarily be better, and I do realize that Green Hill Zone will mostly remain the same. But we shouldn't be assumptive yet on later levels, pessimistic or not.

 

Just now, Diogenes said:

No, I'm looking at the history of this series and making the most reasonable prediction based on the information that we have.

The boost has had a moderate amount of success because it looks pretty, the games aren't buggy as fuck, if you only play it once and/or don't think about it you don't realize how little they offer, and the most recent alternative was the game that cemented Sonic's position as a complete and total embarrassment. The boost isn't good, it's just less of a failure than what came before. And because Sonic Team sucks, instead of making any effort to improve, they're riding it hard until it dies, just like they did with the Adventure gameplay.

The history of this series is more than enough reason to expect that it won't get any better. How many times have we gone through this now? When something in a Sonic game looks bad in a trailer or a preview or a demo, it's bound to stay bad.

You ever notice that no one ever says this to people who are happy with what they've seen? This is only ever used to try to shut up people who don't like something you like.

First off, no, this isn't trying to shut others up like you. Rather, it is trying to get you to think rationally. I can tolerate you not liking something, but I still am allowed to disagree.

As for history, even the future following the history is bound to change, or have some differences. Even if they don't, some of the things seen are just how Sonic Team does stuff nowadays. It is their game. Some things they do won't really change if they feel like it. What you should do is make the best of what you don't like and try to enjoy it. Plus, not everything Sonic Team does is the end of the world if you don't like it.

And I don't agree that that is why the boost was successful. There is more fun to it to be had to plenty than you may think. Not because it looks good or isn't buggy. Then again, fun is relative, but the gameplay should not be replaced because one does not find it fun. I am sure the boost will continue to be successful for a while before it does have to get replaced in some way.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

First off, no, this isn't trying to shut others up like you.

How is "don't judge! (the things they put out specifically for us to judge, also I am only ever going to say this to people who don't like they see, people who like what they see can judge all they like)" not an attempt to get people to stop complaining?

2 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

As for history, even the future following the history is bound to change, or have some differences. Even if they don't, some of the things seen are just how Sonic Team does stuff nowadays. It is their game. Some things they do won't really change if they feel like it. What you should do is make the best of what you don't like and try to enjoy it.

No, what I should do is stop wasting money on this awful series. I don't owe Sonic Team my attention, I'm not obligated to "make the best of it". So long as they keep making bad games they'll get my bitching and not my money.

[Sonikko]

Just now, CrystalStorm51 said:

I guess I understand your concern. But I personally have a feeling things will be better as we see more of the game. We haven't seen much of the first level to judge the whole game enough by anyway. It can't be like Colors all the way, even with Colors' director directing this game, right?

Just now, CrystalStorm51 said:

Even if that is true, I believe you don't see everything about how a designer makes things in just one level. In other games, there have been levels that became increasingly harder and thus not the same. You might know that, but classic Sonic is likely to have plenty of levels. I don't believe all levels are designed the same. Maybe some similarities, and I am not saying later levels will necessarily be better, and I do realize that Green Hill Zone will mostly remain the same. But we shouldn't be assumptive yet on later levels, pessimistic or not.

 

My answer to that is:

Why would they design the first level in their game, which is meant to show the player how the game works, and how to deal with the obstacles and the gameplay mechanics in a certain way (similar to Colours) if they are planning to use a different approach for later levels.

Take Generations as an example, modern GHZ. It's still an hallway, sure, a pretty simple level, much of it is plastered with boostpads and the other half is 2D. But the way Sonic moves, and the way the level wants you to move, is still way more free than anything Colours had to offer in a 3D space. 

Forces does not look like that, it's the opposite actually! So I think our concern is legitimate. Even just the first level can tell you so much about the game. 

 

About classic Sonic. Yet again we've seen just the first level, sure. We don't know yet about the rest of the game, but it's not like the physics system is going to change from one level to the other. The way Sonic interacts with the objects around him and the geometry of the level itself won't change in later levels. The game is built that way, and it's probably not going to change before release. So while I agree that the later levels may be more complicated and have better level design (we haven't seen anything yet, so I'm not gonna write off this game with just 2 minutes of footage in total), it's still safe to assume that it's not going to play great, since the flaws we saw in the first level are still going to be there in every other zone. If Sonic doesn't keep his momentum in the first level, it's going to be that way till the end of the game.

[Shiny Gems]

5 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

My answer to that is:

Why would they design the first level in their game, which is meant to show the player how the game works, and how to deal with the obstacles and the gameplay mechanics in a certain way (similar to Colours) if they are planning to use a different approach for later levels.

Take Generations as an example, modern GHZ. It's still an hallway, sure, a pretty simple level, much of it is plastered with boostpads and the other half is 2D. But the way Sonic moves, and the way the level wants you to move, is still way more free than anything Colours had to offer in a 3D space. 

Forces does not look like that, it's the opposite actually! So I think our concern is legitimate. Even just the first level can tell you so much about the game. 

About classic Sonic. Yet again we've seen just the first level, sure. We don't know yet about the rest of the game, but it's not like the physics system is going to change from one level to the other. The way Sonic interacts with the objects around him and the geometry of the level itself won't change in later levels. The game is built that way, and it's probably not going to change before release. So while I agree that the later levels may be more complicated and have better level design (we haven't seen anything yet, so I'm not gonna write off this game with just 2 minutes of footage in total), it's still safe to assume that it's not going to play great, since the flaws we saw in the first level are still going to be there in every other zone. If Sonic doesn't keep his momentum in the first level, it's going to be that way till the end of the game.

Just wait and see, alright? If we get two or more levels shown with the same thing, you'll have more valid reason to complain.

And I didn't say the physics would change. I was only talking about the layout of the stages.

Still, if you were talking physics more than layout, my bad, I guess.

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

How is "don't judge! (the things they put out specifically for us to judge, also I am only ever going to say this to people who don't like they see, people who like what they see can judge all they like)" not an attempt to get people to stop complaining?

No, what I should do is stop wasting money on this awful series. I don't owe Sonic Team my attention, I'm not obligated to "make the best of it". So long as they keep making bad games they'll get my bitching and not my money.

Because that is not how I intended it to be. "Don't judge" can be used for other means, you know.

For the second part, I guess that is one alternative. BUT, you sound more like an angry customer than a fan in this regard. Not saying being a fan is better, let alone a blind one, which I am not aiming for here, but if you really don't like it, others will enjoy it. Simply let them.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Because that is not how I intended it to be. "Don't judge" can be used for other means, you know.

What other means?

4 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

For the second part, I guess that is one alternative. BUT, you sound more like an angry customer than a fan in this regard. Not saying being a fan is better, let alone a blind one, which I am not aiming for here, but if you really don't like it, others will enjoy it. Simply let them.

You're damn right I'm angry, I'm watching a series I used to love die in slow motion and I'm being told to just shut up and try to enjoy it. If you like the games you're within your rights to do so, but I'm not going to stop complaining about the things I don't like just because you don't want to hear it.

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, Diogenes said:

What other means?

You're damn right I'm angry, I'm watching a series I used to love die in slow motion and I'm being told to just shut up and try to enjoy it. If you like the games you're within your rights to do so, but I'm not going to stop complaining about the things I don't like just because you don't want to hear it.

Hey, I didn't mean to come off as saying stop complaining, so sorry about that. But I didn't literally say you had to enjoy it either. "I just said the best you could do", That and the rest of the sentence is optional. Never said you had to do it. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, too. I was just trying to be reasonable as to why I thought you were jumping the gun, if a bit. I don't force, so ya know. No hard feelings?