Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Bobnik]

24 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Y'all are naive if you think Sonic Team will listen.

Good thing is, I'm naive too.

Let me promise all of you one thing: I'm going to stick to my word and drop my moderation position on SSMB if it ends up the character creation aspect of Forces is true.

BUT.

I will also work with SSMB and talk to Aaron Webber and whoever else necessary to try to pitch a (much less profane, lol) version of this in the form of a video, or what have you. THAT IS, only if fans from all across here can agree on that.

Consider it a community parting gift.

The wording is somewhat weird to understand for me, but if there won't be an OC creator aspect, you won't talk to him? Cuz I still have my doubts that the game will have an OC creator aspect

[azoo]

We'll make a topic for it when the time comes.

And i intend this to be as professional and well put together as possible, and with as much community backing as possible. I wouldn't do it otherwise. 

Sorry to derail Forces discussion with this, but yeah. Keep it frosty in the meantime, ladies and gents.

[D.K.]

What we really need to do is boycott Forces by buying '06 the day Forces come out

[Badnik Mechanic]

Some random fan wrote this about Sonic Forces... 

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/04/the-spin-sonic-forces-me-to-write-this/

I agree with everything he said.

[KHCast]

9 hours ago, Plinius said:

I know some people don't like Classic Sonic's inclusion in Forces but I love it! He was so adorable and cute in Generations he practically stole the game's spotlight. I've seen loads of people on other forums and comment sections who are also delighted to see Classic Sonic return .

I can tell this forum is massively against Forces being Generations 2 (either against its formula being used out of it's intended one time use or simply never liking the game/not liking it in hindsight), but please remember some of us fans (probably a great lot I would say) really have wanted a Generations 2. It's just what Iizuka said; it's not a sequel to Generations as it has a fresh new plot with wholly original, rather than revisted, levels (although I can see the irony with Green Hill returning). Instead, it's a spiritual successor, the extension of the Generations formula that fans like myself have always wanted .

I think we'll be seeing lots more of Classic Sonic in Modern Sonic games and I say this sounds brilliant! Classic Sonic steals everything he is in

We are aware there are people that wanted it. We understand CS's popularity within certain groups. People have brought up our awareness since his debut reveal. Why is voicing our personal opinions somehow being tied to this assumption that we are not considering or factoring in that there are people that wanted something like this? Enjoy this, I'm happy for you, get excited, but also be sure to give the same respect and freedom to those that may feel otherwise.

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

We are aware there are people that wanted it. We understand CS's popularity within certain groups. People have brought up our awareness since his debut reveal. Why is voicing our personal opinions somehow being tied to this assumption that we are not considering or factoring in that there are people that wanted something like this? Enjoy this, I'm happy for you, get excited, but also be sure to give the same respect and freedom to those that may feel otherwise.

No, stfu. You're not allowed criticize Classic Sonic for he is our lord and savior. And anyone who disagrees is just a hater, get with the tiiimes man.

[JosepHenry]

Little rant here, I hate how people blame the fanbase of being so divisive, thinking like this:

Sonic Generations is out

Fan 1: I like the boost!

Not a fan: Hmm... So the WHOLE Sonic fanbase likes the boost.

Sonic Forces is out

Fan 2: I hate the boost.

Not a fan: What? Didn't you guys like the boost? The Sonic fanbase is the worst! Jeez, is like is two different people with different opinions!

 

[StaticMania]

People sure like to exaggerate. That's why the Sonic Fanbase is a neat place.

 

Only they themselves can understand other fans.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

People sure like to exaggerate. That's why the Sonic Fanbase is a neat place.

 

Only they themselves can understand other fans.

I dunno, a lot of fans tend to not get how other fans can like or dislike certain things.

[JezMM]

I will say despite everything I'm still looking forward to the game and remaining hopeful that a lot of the bizarre choices being revealed will make more sense in their finalised versions/contexts.

Like there's a lot of disappointments out the gate (or so it seems) but Colours and Generations had disappointments out the gate too and the overall experience was still enjoyable.

[Kuzu]

2 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I will say despite everything I'm still looking forward to the game and remaining hopeful that a lot of the bizarre choices being revealed will make more sense in their finalised versions/contexts.

Like there's a lot of disappointments out the gate (or so it seems) but Colours and Generations had disappointments out the gate too and the overall experience was still enjoyable.

If anything, I don't think this game is going to be "bad" in the sense of being functionally unplayable. Colors, Generation, and Lost World to an extent, are all functionally sound games. 

But I don't think it's going to leave any lasting impact either.

[Zers Editor]

2 hours ago, Azoo said:

We'll make a topic for it when the time comes.

And i intend this to be as professional and well put together as possible, and with as much community backing as possible. I wouldn't do it otherwise. 

Sorry to derail Forces discussion with this, but yeah. Keep it frosty in the meantime, ladies and gents.

Inner me predicts that it's going to be for nothing.

[azoo]

15 minutes ago, Zers Editor said:

Inner me predicts that it's going to be for nothing.

Being proactive and unifying (only to fail) is better than watching it burn and deciding to do nothing about it (besides complain).

[Wraith]

23 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I will say despite everything I'm still looking forward to the game and remaining hopeful that a lot of the bizarre choices being revealed will make more sense in their finalised versions/contexts.

Like there's a lot of disappointments out the gate (or so it seems) but Colours and Generations had disappointments out the gate too and the overall experience was still enjoyable.

You're absolutely right about this. It's just been 6 years and a lot of us have changed. Should be p easy to understand why someone would be okay with this or not okay with it, so the 200+ pages of arguments just seem silly.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

There's nothing Sonic fans rather do then endlessly document every problem and solution of the series over and over for all eternity, so a project like this is never for nothing.

Most people joining in will probably find making this open letter more fun then even playing their favorite Sonic game.

 

[MudHunter]

I'm I the only one who thinks that a OC creator from a strictly gameplay perspective could be a idea? 

Like it could be like Emerl from Sonic Battle. The OC plays like a boostless Sonic and as you progress through the story you could customize his abilities with stuffs like gliding, that telekinesis thing Silver has, boosting, give him more speed etc..

 

[Milo]

So Classic Sonic's supposed to have that chiptune-styled music for all of his levels? ...woof. Hopefully Green Hill is just a shockingly bad outlier, because both the composition and that soundfont was just really poor IMO. Between that and the level design/gameplay we've seen of Green Hill, it really feels as if Sonic Team themselves didn't want to do classic Sonic for this game either, but Iizuka or some higher authority in Sega told them otherwise and they had to oblige.

Anyway, I know Azoo just recently apologized for the thread derail and wanted to get things back on topic, but I just want to quickly chime in with a few two cents on the feedback issue before we get back to our regular schedule of Sonic Forces Us To Debate About Sonic Team's Next Sonic Game:

Quote

I will also work with SSMB and talk to Aaron Webber and whoever else necessary to try to pitch a (much less profane, lol) version of this in the form of a video, or what have you. THAT IS, only if fans from all across here can agree on that.

Consider it a community parting gift.

5 hours ago, Josh said:

Less infighting and more making it clear that THIS is what we want is key since we have a direct line to Iizuka through Webber.

Mania also got done partially by that and partially through proof of concept though, so it would be good to put together more stuff like Sonic Utopia that doesn't completely neglect modern elements.

3 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

*rest of post*

So yeah. Get Webber's involvement, make the list in japanese, get people with actual game development experience to check it.
Take this project so serious it'll make Shadow proud.

The thing is....fans and Sega of America already tried this. Seven years ago with Sonic 4: Episode I, a game when fan feedback was constantly being touted as part of the development process by the PR.

Remember the community feedback session specifically for the game Sega of America held at their former San Francisco HQ, shortly after Episode I's release? Retro's own Sammybeamy even attended and posted an (admittedly rather sarcastic / jaded) writeup of the event. Everything the fans said there (that was on camera anyway) seemed to have covered just about every meaningful angle that was wrong with the game. There was no drama. Sega of America could do the same thing again if a mature response means that much to them. It's really not that hard to filter out the unnecessary.

In a very telling move, SoA's very own Aaron Webber / RubyEclipse started the event by writing the very first word at the top of the whiteboard in the room--which was "physics". Before anyone else outside the staff who attended, broke the ice with feedback from their own. Sega's own reps couldn't had pretended to have been more aware of the issue if they tried. In their own feedback session, Sega acknowledged and highlighted physics before any participants had even said it.

Yet we know Episode II turned out to have hardly any meaningful changes to the physics, let alone any meaningful changes to other major complaints (automation, level design, music, rehashed content, et al.).  And then Sonic Team gave up on the Sonic 4 project altogether after that.

Moreover, even when they actually do listen to feedback, they interpret it in the most ham-fisted manner possible. Complaints about characters in the 3D titles? They just get rid of them completely, no attempt to see why people complained about them in the first place (with gameplay, writing, and presence in the story being among the most popular reasons). Sonic being too fast in recent games (Boost games)? They split his speed into tiers for Lost World and they slow his base speed down to a crawl. And with Forces, wanting Sega to go back to the Generations gameplay? A game that looks like it's built on recycling that game's base selling points under weak pretences (Classic Sonic/Current Sonic gameplay split, and having Green Hill in some form). I think it's pretty clear Sonic Team is something of a lost cause in regards to getting fan feedback right.

The most ridiculous thing in light of all this is that how well Sonic Team takes fan feedback into account when they produce their games wouldn't even be that bad if they were still making consistently great games in spite of that, which they obviously haven't been doing for the longest time. I mean, Nintendo is only recently going back to the sandbox-styled Mario games with Odyssey certain Mario fans have longed years for since Sunshine, for example. But that doesn't stop the more linear-focused Galaxy and 3D Series games that have been produced during that time from being widely regarded as excellent games. Sonic Team and Sonic doesn't have that benefit.

[azoo]

Some of the same people from the same community that appeared at the meetings for Sonic 4 went to make Sonic Mania.

It's not out of the question. Especially if Aaron, Gene, and whoever else wants us to do something to show what we want.

[Sonictrainer]

11 minutes ago, MudHunter said:

I'm I the only one who thinks that a OC creator from a strictly gameplay perspective is a good idea? 

Like it could be like Emerl from Sonic Battle. The OC plays like a boostless Sonic and as you progress through the story you could customize his abilities with stuffs like gliding, that telekinesis thing Silver has, boosting, give him more speed etc..

 

 

The difference between customizing Emerl in Battle is that you could still play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow, Rouge, Gamma, and Chaos Zero. (that and trying to unlock certain moves, colors, and other features was tedious)

Maybe if at least Classic and Modern Tails were available to play as well it would be fine.

Or if the OC creator has its own mode and takes place as a side story, that happens while the main characters are fighting the bigger threats of Eggman's Forces, your character is joining the resistance in fighting other battles against Eggman.

[TheOcelot]

25 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Being proactive and unifying (only to fail) is better than watching it burn and deciding to do nothing about it (besides complain).

Yeah, nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's no harm in trying. Better than doing nothing. 

It's easy to assume the Sonic 3 Remastered petition didn't achieve anything, but you can bet your ass that SEGA (Aaron at the very least) became aware of it and of the passion fans have towards it.

So yeah, go for it.

17 minutes ago, Gabe said:

So Classic Sonic's supposed to have that chiptune-styled music for all of his levels?

Yeah, this doesn't sound good. Sonic games (apart from the occasional blip) have always had high quality acclaimed music and the prospect of having a soundtrack with at least a third of it being music of a really unnecessarily poor quality (I didn't expect to be comparing music from a main series Sonic game to Sonic 4's dying cats garbage) doesn't bode well.

[Milo]

14 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Some of the same people from the same community that appeared at the meetings for Sonic 4 went to make Sonic Mania.

It's not out of the question. Especially if Aaron, Gene, and whoever else wants us to do something to show what we want.

That's true and I'm not disputing that, but my writeup is referring more towards trying to get feedback through to Sonic Team, rather than getting feedback through to Sega in general. Mania I'd say is a product born from feedback getting through to the latter source much more than the former, especially since Mania is a Sega of America (co-)production instead of being, say, a Sonic Team (co-)production. (Supervisory role from Iizuka notwithstanding, anyway.)

[Nepenthe]

The thing is, we don't have anyone in the fandom who has proven adept enough at making a 3D Sonic vertical slice on par with the best of Sonic Team's offerings. We've had plenty of people do that with 2D Classic games. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, it's easier to make 2D games than 3D ones.

As a result, the development culture between classic-focused developers and Adventure fans is completely different- as it is for most fandoms (I seriously can't think of any other gaming community centered around a 3D series that communicates to its developers with actual working game pitches, so I'm not sure why there's any sort of expectation that we have to do the same. Seriously, I wanna see the fan pitch that led to DOOM 2016). 

Our best option is with a document. But we don't know how that will be translated to Sonic Team, nor do we know their capability at this moment in time.

[StaticMania]

8 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

The difference between customizing Emerl in Battle is that you could still play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow, Rouge, Gamma, and Chaos Zero.

I'm sorry but the more appropriate response to that Sonic battle comparison is that...

 

Sonic Battle is a Fighting Game!! Nobody can actually justify a fighting game making you only able play as one character no matter how customizable their moveset is. It doesn't work as a comparison at all. 

[Kuzu]

Well, somebody would have to come out and show Sega and Sonic Team how we feel. A bunch of words, no matter how well written, doesn't convey the same amount of feelings as something the numerous amount of fan games, and remasters of the classic games does. For 3D Sonic, we'd need an actual reason on why the way Sega have been handling it has been wrong and what should be done about it.

Now the problem comes in that, unlike Classic Sonic which has a very defined playstyle that has been emulated numerous times in the years and is fairly easier. Nobody actually can pin point what should be done with 3D Sonic games. We talk about how many problems the 3D games have until we're blue in the face, but does anyone actually have a solution towards correcting that problem? 

And I say this too because almost every 3D games has had something inherently wrong with it so I'm kind of at a loss on going about fixing i myself.

[Nepenthe]

The easiest way would probably be with an explanatory animation versus a demo- something that looks like gameplay, and something the 3D community is capable of delivering on.

Because lol coding.