Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

What about the next stream from Aaron and Sergio, any news are going to be announced?

Doubt it, but then again I said that about the Nintendo Direct and looked what happened there. Best to just wait and see.

[Kintor]

6 minutes ago, JezMM said:

While the press is definitely a bit weird with Sonic overall, they seem to be able to tell the difference between a proper classic Sonic experience and a poor imitation even if they aren't fully aware of the fact.

And I really don't wanna open this kettle of fish but Sonic CD 2011, the remake of what is often considered the worst/weirdest - or at least the most non-straightforward - classic Sonic game did score higher than Generations.

So there that is regarding predicting Mania vs Forces scores...  Though honestly scoring just a little lower than Mania would frankly be nothing to mock at all, if Forces achieves the same "yeah it's a pretty decent game" success as Generations that'll be grand.

Sonic CD might well be the weirdest classic Sonic game (although I think that Knuckles Chaotix has that honour) but it's a classic game nonetheless, that's hallowed ground even if the reviews do still mock the classic games ever opportunity. Conversely Sonic Mania, for all its charm, is not a classic Sonic game even if it looks like one. Sonic Mania is something new, a modern Sonic game seeking to match the classic games much like Sonic 4 before it. Whether or not the reviewers chose to judge Sonic Mania on its own merit or simply deduct points because it’s a new Sonic game remains to be seen.

Regardless, getting Sonic Generations level reviews would be a good outcome for both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania. Chasing perfect 10s is a fool’s errand and only leads to pointless drama once a couple of reviews mark a game down to '9.6' or 9.7' just to buck the trend.

[Jango]

Even if the physics have been improved in places, which is likely because there were subtle changes between each of the three previous boost games, it means nothing of the level design is as shite as Green Hill. 

Remember that time when Dimps actually made a reasonable effort in mimicking the Classic physics?

With level design like that, they needn't have bothered. 

 

That's some straight line, hm? Holy crap.

[The Deleter]

I still don't get what people are on about when they say Dimps got the classic physics right; his momentum is still very wonkey, just barely gaining speed rolling down hills, and the fastest way to accelerate is by roll-jumping

Feels more like they got the Gamegear!Sonic physics right, lol

[The drunkard from space!]

42 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

 

 

It'd be so dope if SEGA released a game that looked like that under the title "Sonic Mania Advance". I'd buy that in a heartbeat!

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

I still don't get what people are on about when they say Dimps got the classic physics right; his momentum is still very wonkey, just barely gaining speed rolling down hills, and the fastest way to accelerate is by roll-jumping

Feels more like they got the Gamegear!Sonic physics right, lol

Thaaaaaaaaank you!

Dimps got the Classic physics far more accurate than Sonic Team did and their own efforts in S4 beforehand. Some work had clearly gone in to making the physics comparable to the actual Classics, but they weren't perfect at all. I think that they're overrated because they're better than the alternatives and overlooked because Gens 3DS isn't the main version. 

[LongcrierCat]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

That critics rate it too highly and that it sells too well.

I do not want the game to bomb. I don't even want it to do badly. But I want it to be received in such a way, and compared to Mania, that encourages SEGA to completely rethink what they're doing.

I'm glad that the fanbase is feeling my same kind of burnout. I know I'm an old (and now very changed) cat from the darker times of the fanbase so it's very pleasing to finally see the majority of the fanbase on the same page for once. It makes me happy enough to cry to see that we as a fanbase can actually get along well and admit faults and settle our differences. Like, this is the only thing I've ever wanted in this fanbase. 

So thank you, Sonic Forces? 

I really hope that the Critics don't love this game if we don't like it because of linear choices. I hope that they admit that it's not a bad game but that's it's average bordering on mediocre. Like, I liked Unleashed but every boost game since has been increasingly more average and I feel like what levels had open design in Generations were flukes because of what games' levels they were based on. This game has no excuse for the automated linearity. This has the common problem of most 3D Sonics. But it feels like it will still be loved more because "Well it's far more playable than Sonic '06". Is this where we're at at this point in the franchise? We should be getting better, not getting complacent. That's not healthy for the growth of a long running series punky boy like Sonic the Hedgehog. Like even Punk has evolved past Sonic and they still use Felix the Cat as an icon. 

So why is Sonic not evolving now? You can only repeat so many average games until they become mediocre over time. What you should strive for now? It's a great game. This doesn't cut it anymore from what I've read in this topic. Like, I saw this being a reality, but I didn't want it to be like this. Sega really should be pushing for a better Sonic if they insist on pushing him and his franchise. 

 

[Scar]

Part of me thinks that the problem is making Classic Sonic physics using a physics engine that is also compatible with Boost Sonic. They both probably use the same global physics engine (Havok), which I imagine would create some issues. Introducing classicphysics may make Boost Sonic way more awkward to play, so they just optimised physics for that and cheated with classic Sonic.

I dunno if this is true, its just speculation, but it suggests two things to me. One, it might be incorrect to suggest that Sonic Team don't know how to emulate classic physics. They might do...probably don't, but might. Only reason for the automation is to overcome aforementioned compatibility problems. Given how much money they've sunk into a graphics engine (twice no less), I don't really understand why they haven't decided to develop their entirely original physics engine. Call it the BLAST PROCESSING ENGINE^TM. Genius.

Second is the more important one. Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic should not exist in the same game. Make a game with either or, but not fucking both. Ends up resulting in a half-baked Classic Sonic that barely captures the classic feel, aside from the superficial details.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, JezMM said:

To hell with it, I'm curious so I made a poll.

Would you describe yourself as disappointed with Sonic Forces with what is known of it so far?

Obviously it's going to be a pretty odd voter sample but guests reading the thread and people off the boards are welcome to vote too if anyone wants to share it with other non-SSMB friends.  Let's see what it's doing after 50 votes or so.  I've enabled IP checking but obviously it's not difficult to get around that so I just respectfully ask everyone be fair and not cheat the results.  I wanna know the real answer, not the one that most aligns with my own.  You can check the results so far any time you like here.

I selected "A few elements of it disappoint me but so far they have been very minor," given that the only issue I have is the third character. Classic Sonic isn't that big an offender for me, although I would prefer Modern Sonic stand on his own here.

That said, my disappointment is a little bigger than I make it out to be, but I guess it's because I'm leaning a bit more towards "optimistically neutral" as opposed to the negative shoutbox we've walled ourselves into here on these forums regarding the game. I would be surprised at the optimism the game still has, but one has to remember that the internet is much bigger than SSMB and that there are more fans out there than we're aware of who are interested. Just because we have folks on SSMB or Retro doesn't mean they speak for everyone out there given that internet gives everyone a megaphone and the more vocal ones make the heavier use of it as opposed to the more numerous.

I guess my biggest fear is that the attempted darker story fails, because I really want Sonic to have more gravity and high stakes to him and for this to show it can work. The whole "Serious vs Lighthearted" debate is without at doubt one of the most narrowminded debacles this fandom has engaged in given there have been many, many family friendly animated works that are goofy, lighthearted, dark, and intense at the same fucking time. And I for one would like Sonic to be among these series can that do this as well instead of this "either/or" that fans or Sonic Team have been insistent upon.

I'm pretty sure I'll get over the new character brought into the game over time depending on how they're written tho. I've been surprised before...of course that depends entirely on what gets revealed about them given how much we're in the dark.

I have to say tho, Sonic Team's secrecy is impressive. I recall back in the day when we would find out a lot of details earlier than we should have, but they've kept things so tightlipped we're only at the tip of the iceberg over out knowledge.

[Chris Knopps]

Question as a clueless bum from a hick town in the south...

Can't they use two physics engine in the same game and program these two engines to work during specific parts of the game?

Why not find a means of porting either the Genesis or Whitehead's physics into Forces to work during 2D stages and use whatever they're using for 3D stages?

I mean, along with the porting, naturally the physics engine or whatever you call it could be improved to handle what it's being used for...

Isn't this possible? Two physics engines in one game? One that works during the Classic Sonic portion and the other that handles Modern Sonic portions?

[Dejimon11]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

Thaaaaaaaaank you!

Dimps got the Classic physics far more accurate than Sonic Team did and their own efforts in S4 beforehand. Some work had clearly gone in to making the physics comparable to the actual Classics, but they weren't perfect at all. I think that they're overrated because they're better than the alternatives and overlooked because Gens 3DS isn't the main version. 

Wasn't Sonic 4's issue was that they essentially re-used the Sonic Rush engine?

[Solly]

39 minutes ago, Scar said:

Part of me thinks that the problem is making Classic Sonic physics using a physics engine that is also compatible with Boost Sonic. They both probably use the same global physics engine (Havok), which I imagine would create some issues. Introducing classicphysics may make Boost Sonic way more awkward to play, so they just optimised physics for that and cheated with classic Sonic.

Isn't the Havok engine just for objects in the game world? Destructible terrain, shrapnel, etc. I don't think it has any bearing on gameplay or how Sonic himself controls. 

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Can't they use two physics engine in the same game and program these two engines to work during specific parts of the game?

It's absolutely possible. But that would take effort, and so long as they can get away with cheap copies of the Genesis games, they will.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

So, what have I missed since I've been away?

[Blue Blood]

12 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Wasn't Sonic 4's issue was that they essentially re-used the Sonic Rush engine?

Yep, and it was also used in the 3DS versions of both Lost World and Generations.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, ThePrinceOfSaiyans said:

So, what have I missed since I've been away?

The only thing not worthy that happened was a poll that asked what we thought about Forces so far, only one page back.

[Shiny Gems]

Well, since we are talking about fears for the game, my one fear, aside from the game getting bad reviews, is how the third playable character will be. I hope the third gameplay style is not poorly done, and is fun, for if it isn't fun and good, it may give Sonic Team a reason not to use other characters for a long time.

[Zippo]

Really hoping that this Hedgehog Engine 2 is really well optimized for all consoles. I want this in full 60FPS, fingers crossed the same can be done for the Switch version, especially. This will look super sharp in portable mode, at least. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

Really hoping that this Hedgehog Engine 2 is really well optimized for all consoles. I want this in full 60FPS, fingers crossed the same can be done for the Switch version, especially. This will look super sharp in portable mode, at least. 

I'm making an assumption on this mind you, and I've said this before as well, but...

Sonic Forces looks like it could very easily run on PS3 and XBox 360 hardware, and it might not be too much of a stretch to say even the PS2 and original XBox could as well in some cases, so with this in mind, I highly doubt there will be any graphical or frame rate issues on the Switch console, especially in handheld mode if, given the BoTW's performance, it seems to run better when NOT played on the TV, funnily enough.

I wouldn't worry about it. Sonic Forces really is a last-gen, and depending on different tech stuff out of my grasp, a potentially last-LAST gen title. I'd say 60FPS is easily possible no matter how it's played on the Switch since asides some fancy stuff happening in the background I really don't think Forces is much of a step beyond Unleashed and/or Generations, and given some views on the game, is potentially a downgrade in some ways to a more Lost World approach.

[HedgehogBR]

39 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Sonic Forces looks like it could very easily run on PS3 and XBox 360 hardware, and it might not be too much of a stretch to say even the PS2 and original XBox could as well in some cases, so with this in mind, I highly doubt there will be any graphical or frame rate issues on the Switch console, especially in handheld mode if, given the BoTW's performance, it seems to run better when NOT played on the TV, funnily enough.

People are exaggerating a lot in the criticism to defame this game. PS3 and XBOX 360 could never run this game .... PS2 and Xbox ?? Same thing to say that Sonic Adventure would run on Mega Drive.

[Blue Blood]

Sonic on PS2/Wii

Sonic on PS4/XB1 

Chris, are you absolutely sure about what you just said? Really? 

[Chris Knopps]

6 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Sonic on PS2/Wii

Sonic on PS4/XB1 

Chris, are you absolutely sure about what you just said? Really? 

In "some" cases, meaning portions of the game, ala Green Hill for example.

By and large however it's easy to see its entirety running on the PS3 and XBox 360 nonetheless.

[Blue Blood]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

In "some" cases, meaning portions of the game, ala Green Hill for example.

 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

No

You are wrong. 

Keep in mind Heroes had to run on the GameCube which was inferior to the PS2 so I blame that on Heroes graphics.

The Jak and Daxter series is a better power/capability comparison example. When you consider what the PS2 did with 3D environments with THAT wide a range of rendering savvy and such, condensing all that power into a mere 2D plain does make stages like Green Hill in Forces plausible on the PS2.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Keep in mind Heroes had to run on the GameCube which was inferior to the PS2 so I blame that on Heroes graphics.

Gamecube was graphically more powerful than PS2, lol. Get your information right.