Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Zonic 2099]

I like that on top of disrespecting other creators he omits the fact that he only stayed on as long as he did because Archie let him dump whatever idea he had in 90% of the time.

[horridus]

5 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

I like that on top of disrespecting other creators he omits the fact that he only stayed on as long as he did because Archie let him dump whatever idea he had in 90% of the time.

And yet despite that connection he's lauding, THIS is the kind of character he saw Sonic as-

Quote

While I no longer believe Sally should be killed off, I'm no longer certain if Sonic is a one-girl guy. When you stop and think how Sega looks at the character, he's all ego and attitude. He thinks about number one. He can accept Tails because Tails is the subordinate junior assistant to his main act. He'd consider Sally nothing more than a fun to be with every now and then (if that) and a drag the rest of the time. His attitude towards Sally, and females in general, in probably much like that MTV-character in the movie She's All That. The way he ditches the girl is so Sonic-like. ("You think all I want to do is spend my life with you? That's cool and all, but I gotta go fight Robotnik! Later, babe!")

I know I'm going to get into a lot of disagreement with people over this, but I've yet to hear anyone ever say "Y'know, he can be such an arrogant jerk, but he's really quite lovable under all that!" They usually stop the comment after the word "jerk". People who are conceited and full of themselves generally aren't likeable. Check out most entertainers and athletes as my prime example. There are exceptions, but there are few and far between. (And I can't tell you how many times I've been accused of being arrogant if I dare disagree with anyone's opinion, or not answer their IM or e-mail. It has nothing at all to do with arrogance, and everything to do with lack of time.)

He reflected that pretty perfectly in that odious storyline where he had Sonic pursue a girl he knew Tails had a crush on, and then proceeded to moon after Sally even as he was dating said girl, with him interrupting Sally's arranged marriage to Evil Antoine not because he knew that Antoine had been replaced by his evil twin, but out of sheer, warped entitlement. 

He is unique among all the people to write for Sonic in that he is the only one who has ever taken this view of who Sonic is as a character. A character he claims his son loved. One must wonder what his opinion on THAT was, if THIS was how he saw Sonic at the time he was on the book. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Not to make this a family thing, but yeah, given he said it was his son's love of the character that inspired everything that's followed, I've long been dying to know just what he thinks of everything.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I’m gonna be honest, much as it would be called out as strange, arrogant, or jerkass (or anything else you could call it, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong here), the only reason Penders’ interpretation of Sonic gets a bad light is because of the problems he would later cause that would earn the scorn he has today.

Had Penders instead chose to live and let live, we wouldn’t be so venomous to the ideas he brought about. This is one of those cases of “alternate settings, alternate rules”—we’ve seen multiple other portrayals of the character that could be hit or miss, so I can’t really say anything against his idea in good faith that doesn’t come off as berating Penders for being Penders.
 

Don’t get me wrong, you guys might still say the same things you’re already saying regardless, but you would mostly just disagree with the interpretation and move on without a fuss.

That’s not excusing his ideas for shipping Geoffrey and Sally tho. You guys can have at that one.

 

[SkullPirateMike]

5 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I’m gonna be honest, much as it would be called out as strange, arrogant, or jerkass (or anything else you could call it, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong here), the only reason Penders’ interpretation of Sonic gets a bad light is because of the problems he would later cause that would earn the scorn he has today.

Had Penders instead chose to live and let live, we wouldn’t be so venomous to the ideas he brought about. This is one of those cases of “alternate settings, alternate rules”—we’ve seen multiple other portrayals of the character that could be hit or miss, so I can’t really say anything against his idea in good faith that doesn’t come off as berating Penders for being Penders.

 

I can't speak to an American perspective, but I can tell you that over here in the UK we were making fun of the weird American soap opera Sonic book when we first found it on the internet, many, many years before we knew who was writing it.

[CertifiedNobody]

1 minute ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I can't speak to an American perspective, but I can tell you that over here in the UK we were making fun of the weird American soap opera Sonic book when we first found it on the internet, many, many years before we knew who was writing it.

Yeah, but us Americans have been doing the same with STC for just as long. Every Sonic comic is weird.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I can't speak to an American perspective, but I can tell you that over here in the UK we were making fun of the weird American soap opera Sonic book when we first found it on the internet, many, many years before we knew who was writing it.

And I’m pretty sure we Americans were talking all kinds of shit (matter of fact, I’ve already seen a few cases from a few years back on these forums) towards Sonic the Comic and the strange things it brought, so that’s not saying much.
 

We grew up with two different things—of course, one’s gonna look weirder to the other when they see it. Early Sonic had multiple continuities that eventually went their own way, so much like Classic fans bitching at the Adventure Era, or Adventure Era fans bitching at Modern Sonic, that’s just expected when it plays out the similar everywhere else over new or different things.

[SkullPirateMike]

Y'all are very defensive. I didn't say a damn thing about STC, just that people were saying Ken's writing was bad long before he started behaving badly on the internet. No need to start bashing unrelated work to defend him.

Just saw this interesting thread on Twitter, it seems like a lot of the things he's been saying about his case vs Archie aren't actually true.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

51 minutes ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Y'all are very defensive. I didn't say a damn thing about STC, just that people were saying Ken's writing was bad long before he started behaving badly on the internet. No need to start bashing unrelated work to defend him.

Bruh…ain’t no-damn-body being defensive about the dumb shit Penders (of all people) did—we’ve been talking mad shit about the guy for well over a decade.
 

Both Archie and STC had weird shit in their day, so readers from across both sides of the pond probably aren’t likely going to like the same as what the other grew up with because of how different they are to each other. I brought it up specifically to highlight that difference in perspectives.

How any of that translated to defending Penders to you, I have no fucking clue.

[CertifiedNobody]

5 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Bruh…ain’t no-damn-body being defensive about the dumb shit Penders (of all people) did—we’ve been talking mad shit about the guy for well over a decade.
 

Both Archie and STC had weird shit in their day, so readers from across both sides of the pond probably aren’t likely going to like the same as what the other grew up with because of how different they are to each other.

How any of that translated to defending Penders to you, I have no fucking clue.

You said it better than I would've been able to

[SkullPirateMike]

Just a bit weird to suddenly drag a totally unrelated publication because I mentioned we were making fun of Penders' comics back in the day over here, is all. I never said all of Archie was bad, and I definitely wouldn't say the same of the manga, which I think is pretty charming despite not having grown up with it. I don't know why STC needed to be part of this conversation at all tbh.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Just a bit weird to suddenly drag a totally unrelated publication because I mentioned we were making fun of Penders' comics back in the day over here, is all. I never said all of Archie was bad, and I definitely wouldn't say the same of the manga, which I think is pretty charming despite not having grown up with it. I don't know why STC needed to be part of this conversation at all tbh.

I brought it up to highlight different perspectives—I also brought up Classic, Adventure, and Modern Sonic for the same reason.

Different groups grow up with different ideas, and having seen enough of it over the course of decades, they tend to make fun of and mock those differences, with the common factor being that they weren’t used to it, so it comes off as “wtf?”

 I’m not saying you’re wrong for making fun of Penders’ writing at whatever period of time you did, just that the mocking of different things like that isn’t anything new.

[Johnny Boy]

6 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Y'all are very defensive. I didn't say a damn thing about STC, just that people were saying Ken's writing was bad long before he started behaving badly on the internet. No need to start bashing unrelated work to defend him.

Just saw this interesting thread on Twitter, it seems like a lot of the things he's been saying about his case vs Archie aren't actually true.

 

So essentially Archie Sonic died for nothing then? Damn.

[CertifiedNobody]

11 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Just saw this interesting thread on Twitter, it seems like a lot of the things he's been saying about his case vs Archie aren't actually true.

 

Could this mean anything in the future though? It'd be funny to see him at risk of losing The Lara Su Chronicles.

[SkullPirateMike]

6 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

I brought it up to highlight different perspectives—I also brought up Classic, Adventure, and Modern Sonic for the same reason.

Different groups grow up with different ideas, and having seen enough of it over the course of decades, they tend to make fun of and mock those differences, with the common factor being that they weren’t used to it, so it comes off as “wtf?”

 I’m not saying you’re wrong for making fun of Penders’ writing at whatever period of time you did, just that the mocking of different things like that isn’t anything new.

I don't agree. We weren't making fun of the manga, we weren't making fun of the OVA, we thought those were cool. We were just making fun of Ken Penders' comics. My point was that yes, people were making fun of Penders' writing long before he started acting out on the internet (hell, long before he stopped writing them). I made a mistake mentioning what country I'm from, obviously. Whether or not people were making fun of STC is totally irrelevant, this isn't a 'whose comic was worse' thread.

[Zonic 2099]

Before the legal problems, Archie could have and should have started releasing the comic in graphic novel form instead of doing so shortly after Ian came on. To release volumes 5 & 6 of Knuckles book during this legal hell storm, yeah it's easy to understand why they'd be hesitant. As for afterwards... The whole thing probably left a very bad taste in Archie's mouth as much as the fans. I'm not saying that like they'd never ever have released volumes 5 & 6 they probably would just want to release it at some later point in time if need be. Especially if there would be enough demand. 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I don't agree. We weren't making fun of the manga, we weren't making fun of the OVA, we thought those were cool.

Yet people were making fun of things from Adventure Era and Modern Era. People were also making fun of cartoons like Underground and even Boom. The list goes on—SA2 is one the series’s most well known titles that spawned a whole new generation of fans, and yet people still manage to talk shit about even that.

Everything has its fans, but it has its detractors too. Some more so than others.

8 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

We were just making fun of Ken Penders' comics. My point was that yes, people were making fun of Penders' writing long before he started acting out on the internet (hell, long before he stopped writing them). I made a mistake mentioning what country I'm from, obviously. Whether or not people were making fun of STC is totally irrelevant, this isn't a 'whose comic was worse' thread.

That’s cool, because no one was saying which comic was worse in the first place, just that every work has something someone will make fun of because of different perspectives—one may find something from others weird compared to what they were used to.

Doesn’t really matter what the work is—we American’s (mostly from the 90s era) were used to Archie, so unlike you guys in the UK we didn’t find Penders work weird (much less cared who he was) until after he started being a bastard. Again, the feeling isn’t any different to Classic fans who do the same to Adventure and Modern fans, and so forth, because Sonic has had different things that go their own way that would bring these various perceptions upon them.

Do you get what I’m saying now?

[Mangoaxe5]

It's amazing how much Penders art has gotten worst.

I was looking back at the art for his Sonic Armageddon, and this one piece is not all that bad.

Sally looks ok, Knuckles looks so-so, same with Julie-Su, Sonic's mother looks a little too young. King Max's face looks a little weird. The best face here is Eggman's. Eggman's face reminds me of Satam Robotnik's face. The worst face here is Sonic's. But all in all the art here is passable.

[CertifiedNobody]

10 hours ago, Vampfox said:

It's amazing how much Penders art has gotten worst.

I was looking back at the art for his Sonic Armageddon, and this one piece is not all that bad.

Sally looks ok, Knuckles looks so-so, same with Julie-Su, Sonic's mother looks a little too young. King Max's face looks a little weird. The best face here is Eggman's. Eggman's face reminds me of Satam Robotnik's face. The worst face here is Sonic's. But all in all the art here is passable.

No, that's still hideous. Penders'  work looks best when he doesn't have that godawful airbrushing style.

I'll defend some of Penders' writing and worldbuilding as being really fun and interesting, but his art is not good and he doesn't understand Sonic.

[Leebo4]

15 hours ago, Vampfox said:

It's amazing how much Penders art has gotten worst.

I was looking back at the art for his Sonic Armageddon, and this one piece is not all that bad.

Sally looks ok, Knuckles looks so-so, same with Julie-Su, Sonic's mother looks a little too young. King Max's face looks a little weird. The best face here is Eggman's. Eggman's face reminds me of Satam Robotnik's face. The worst face here is Sonic's. But all in all the art here is passable.

I like his Armageddon artwork

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I mean, I think it’s passable. Definitely better than what I could draw up.

Seeing this back then and his art now…yeah, he’s gotten worse. Don’t know if that has to do with him trying to merge his style to look more…real? Human? Alien? Either way you wanna cut it, his current work is not a sight for sore eyes.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:33 PM, CertifiedNobody said:

Could this mean anything in the future though? It'd be funny to see him at risk of losing The Lara Su Chronicles.

If you mean bringing back characters from Archie sonic to future projects then no not really. Also considering how long it’s been since this case has been going on.

what this might help with tho is that it could counter the apparent misinfo about the case that’s being spread either by Penders or from those who defend him or something.

[Rabid-Coot]

Probably means more shitpost responses to his tweets and more of his life spent argueing with them.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

While it’s a neat thread that gives us more detail about just how much nonsense Ken was spewing, it doesn’t change anything. These are the official court documents, this is all the information the jury and the judge had years ago. All this proves is what we already knew, that Penders was bullshitting on several aspects. It doesn’t change the fact Archie’s legal team was utterly and comically incompetent (if anything, it goes to show how truly incompetent they are), nor does it change the fact that Penders still won due to their incompetency. 

At the end of the day, Penders is a asshole, but he won, and he won because Archie are woefully incompetent idiots who completely screwed the pooch - and given their own actions both between the Felop lawsuit, Worlds Unite, the Kickstarter scandal, and everything else basically nuked their Action lineup, and killed not only Archie Sonic, but Archie Mega Man as well, it has to be said that Archie can also be blamed for a lot of the sheer idiocy that allowed Penders to get away with it in the end.

The only thing the court documents change is how detailed our understanding is, and I guess, some comebacks in a Twitter argument if it comes up. Beyond that, nothing really.

[Rabbitearsblog]

Like @Ryannumber1gamerstated, even if these documents are released, the damage has already been done. Penders already won the lawsuit and there's no going back on that.  The only thing these documents would change is that if Penders wanted to sue somebody else (like say Paramount), then everyone would know how the case went and they would try to find ways to avoid the same mistakes that Archie made.