Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Verb & Noun]

I still find it bizarre, but not at all surprising, that the established cast is somehow redundant to his own creations, when they fill the exact same roles. While I personally have no problem with more than one character doing the same thing or similar things, it's how they're written and how they approach that role that makes them interesting. Pen just wanted to replace anyone he thought he could get away with. It seems the editor at least prevented any of the established cast, like Sally, from getting the kibosh, and if Pen was going to be allowed to kill off the game characters, SEGA would force him to make them temporary and guarantee they return as they were, like with Robotnik and Knuckles. They at least did that much considering they barely cared about the book until the Sonic Heroes era.

 

This reminds me how Geoffrey and the Substitute Freedom Fighters were obviously intended to be replacements for the original FF, as he forcibly inserted them into any issue he could back in the old days.

[Osmium]

 

The only reason I imagine it didn't get that far was because Karl Bollers was the lead writer for the bulk of post-End Game material up until after Pellerito became editor. Pen stuck with Knuckles until that book was cancelled, and mostly did back-ups, only trading in and collaborating on bigger stories once in a while. By the time Future Mobius got to be a thing, he had actually stated he was fine staying in his own playground while Bollers did whatever in the current timeline. It only became a mess when Bollers went and eliminated most of the dead weight Echidna and Fire Ants and Pen was trying to restore everything to this pristine utopia of his when he became the lead again. Had it not been for Pellerito, who, unlike Gabrie, actually told Pen no once in a while and looked for ways to actually improve the book, it very well could have gotten to that point.

 

That's actually pretty interesting if true. But yeah, since Pen didn't illustrate these stories... I honestly have no idea how Butler couldn't keep her consistent. That is weird.

 

While Bollers isn't as bad as Penders, he's still a really shitty writer and wrote a lot of absolute garbage too. Just wanted to bring that up, even though you probably already knew that. 

 

At least he got rid of a lot of the dead weight characters. 

[Zaysho]

While Bollers isn't as bad as Penders, he's still a really shitty writer and wrote a lot of absolute garbage too. Just wanted to bring that up, even though you probably already knew that. 

 

No, I'm aware. I'm in the middle of his output, mostly because I haven't read his complete run. Just didn't really have anything to do with my main point. Penders wasn't head writer, and Bollers, for all the things he did, he wasn't really trying to outright replace characters.

[Osmium]

No, I'm aware. I'm in the middle of his output, mostly because I haven't read his complete run. Just didn't really have anything to do with my main point. Penders wasn't head writer, and Bollers, for all the things he did, he wasn't really trying to outright replace characters.

 

Yeah, he's horrible, but not Penders level horrible when it comes to stuff like that. 

 

I think that Bollers probably had even more mumbo-jumbo in some of his issues than Penders. Just try and read issue 71 withough losing your mind. 

[Zaysho]

Yeah, he's horrible, but not Penders level horrible when it comes to stuff like that. 

 

I think that Bollers probably had even more mumbo-jumbo in some of his issues than Penders. Just try and read issue 71 withough losing your mind. 

 

I have, I still have no idea which way I'm supposed to read it. I really dislike that they had to go out of their way to show Sonic's appearance change when just shifting the art would've sufficed. Amy I can forgive due to the difference in age between her incarnations, and even if it's kind of stupid, it was kind of a necessary change. Sonic, however, is just baffling, especially since it wasn't the case with Knuckles or Tails.

 

That said, I think Bollers had some good ideas, just bad execution. Same with Pen, but his writing was even worse across the board, and at least Bollers tried to make use of the established cast while mixing in his own creations. I still personally liked Finitevus.

 

But, that's neither here nor there. Just saying.

[Osmium]

I have, I still have no idea which way I'm supposed to read it. I really dislike that they had to go out of their way to show Sonic's appearance change when just shifting the art would've sufficed. Amy I can forgive due to the difference in age between her incarnations, and even if it's kind of stupid, it was kind of a necessary change. Sonic, however, is just baffling, especially since it wasn't the case with Knuckles or Tails.

 

But, again, doesn't really have anything to do with anything.

 

I know, it's absolutely ridiculous that they made that whole convoluted issue just to basically explain a design change. Couldn't have they just said he got some green contacts and a new pair of fucking shoes or something? 

 

Or even more easy, just pretend that he always looked like that, as you can't really say that everyone else got new coloured contacts too. 

[Gabz Girl]

Wasn't Bollers the one who came up with Titan Tails? That was...pretty awful, rivalling Penders' writing in awfulness. =X

[Zaysho]

Wasn't Bollers the one who came up with Titan Tails? That was...pretty awful, rivalling Penders' writing in awfulness. =X

 

No, he was gone by then. Looking it up, it seems the Titan Tails stories were done by Romy Chacon, who wrote for the book on and off at least until Flynn took over.

 

So yeah, blame them.

[Osmium]

Wasn't Bollers the one who came up with Titan Tails? That was...pretty awful, rivalling Penders' writing in awfulness. =X

 

Nevermind, Zaysho was right. It was Chacon. 

[Osmium]

I think I'll also bring up that Bollers created this atrocity: 

 

 

An issue about the Sonic characters going to school. amazing. 

 

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOIN ON WITH MINA OVER THERE

[Sonictrainer]

I think I'll also bring up that Bollers created this atrocity: 

 

 

An issue about the Sonic characters going to school. AMAZING. 

 

I thought the cover was cool….except for Mina's face...

[Neon Zephyr]

Eh, the concept of the Freedom Fighters (who, for the most part, were still kids/teenagers, after all) starting a more normal school life has potential, considering how much of their lives were war-torn, etc. It would've been a good way to symbolize how their lives (and the world) was regaining some of the normalcy that Robotnik had taken from them/it during his takeover. Maybe not as a lead story or as the main focus, but some sort of sign that there was that sense returning to their lives and world again (especially seeing as Tails had never had a "proper" school). 

 

That said, I remember nothing from this issue aside from 1) that really jarring cover, which probably was a really bad idea in general (unless this issue came out in September. A "back-to-school" cover would have made for a better variant than these Sega CG art cover ones we're getting lately, too). And 2) Tails vanished again (in front of a hall monitor?) to fight Chaos Knuckles or something. I don't know, this was the middle of the WEIRD age of the book. 

[Celestia]

It makes me wonder how frightening the the comic would be today if Penders was allowed to do absolutely whatever he wanted, and the editors and no one else could do anything to stop him.

To be honest, the comic'd probably have ended a while ago if it had kept going on like it was. People were already getting tired of the issues with Penders' work by that point. Ironically people probably wouldn't hate him on a personal level as much since all the issues with character rights wouldn't have happened and a lot of the things he's said regarding Ian / Archie / SEGA wouldn't have been, well, said.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Celestia

[horridus]

Oooh yes. Bollers had plenty of dumb, dumb ideas under his belt. However, he has the saving grace of having moved on with his life since Sonic (he's got an eisner nominated series!) and doesn't scream about his material being the Iconic God Tier Run of the comics and he himself as the misunderstood lord and savior of Sonic. 

 

That, and I can at least appreciate the fact he tried to move the plot along and shake up the status quo a bit. It didn't always work, mind, but hey, at least he was making an effort. 

[Osmium]

Eh, the concept of the Freedom Fighters (who, for the most part, were still kids/teenagers, after all) starting a more normal school life has potential, considering how much of their lives were war-torn, etc. It would've been a good way to symbolize how their lives (and the world) was regaining some of the normalcy that Robotnik had taken from them/it during his takeover. Maybe not as a lead story or as the main focus, but some sort of sign that there was that sense returning to their lives and world again (especially seeing as Tails had never had a "proper" school). 

 

I guess it COULD work, it it's handled very, and I mean VERY carefully. Sonic is not the kind of guy I could see sitting in a school at all.

 

And I think that's it's just a very strange and out there concept, and its not a Sonic-like story at all. I mean, it doesn't seem necessary for any of them to even go to school. 

[Verb & Noun]

No, he was gone by then. Looking it up, it seems the Titan Tails stories were done by Romy Chacon, who wrote for the book on and off at least until Flynn took over.

 

So yeah, blame them.

 

Romy Chacon (a 'female writer') was Justin Gabrie (the male editor) under an alias.

[Zaysho]

Romy Chacon (a 'female writer') was Justin Gabrie (the male editor) under an alias.

 

This... this explains a lot, actually.

 

It's also interesting since he was writing under that alias while he was still active editor. Even Fulop (as Kent Taylor) didn't start writing for the book until after he stepped down.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Being fair, Bollers had a few saving graces that at least put him above Penders. Apart from what Horridus mentioned, he's also written some pretty good arcs (Return to Angel Island), and gave us a few better characters than Penders' clone echidnas (Mina, Hope etc)

[Sonictrainer]

And I think that's it's just a very strange and out there concept, and its not a Sonic-like story at all. I mean, it doesn't seem necessary for any of them to even go to school. 

 

I could see Tails teaching a class or meeting with Professors like Pickle in Spagonia for knowledge and information.

 

Besides that, the only other characters that may be attending school is Cream and Charmy.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Eh, the concept of the Freedom Fighters (who, for the most part, were still kids/teenagers, after all) starting a more normal school life has potential, considering how much of their lives were war-torn, etc. It would've been a good way to symbolize how their lives (and the world) was regaining some of the normalcy that Robotnik had taken from them/it during his takeover. Maybe not as a lead story or as the main focus, but some sort of sign that there was that sense returning to their lives and world again (especially seeing as Tails had never had a "proper" school). 

 

That said, I remember nothing from this issue aside from 1) that really jarring cover, which probably was a really bad idea in general (unless this issue came out in September. A "back-to-school" cover would have made for a better variant than these Sega CG art cover ones we're getting lately, too). And 2) Tails vanished again (in front of a hall monitor?) to fight Chaos Knuckles or something. I don't know, this was the middle of the WEIRD age of the book. 

 

I guess it COULD work, it it's handled very, and I mean VERY carefully. Sonic is not the kind of guy I could see sitting in a school at all.

 

And I think that's it's just a very strange and out there concept, and its not a Sonic-like story at all. I mean, it doesn't seem necessary for any of them to even go to school. 

 

Honestly a more realistic thing I would get out of the "return to school" thing would be the Knothole Freedom Fighters TRYING to return to a normal life, bu the effects of the war would make it very difficult for them to readjust to normal life, with Sonic adjusting the worst due to his life being basically defined as being a child soldier. Mind you I have never read any of the Archie Sonic Comics, so maybe they did do something like this, but I'm just saying.

[Osmium]

Honestly a more realistic thing I would get out of the "return to school" thing would be the Knothole Freedom Fighters TRYING to return to a normal life, bu the effects of the war would make it very difficult for them to readjust to normal life, with Sonic adjusting the worst due to his life being basically defined as being a child soldier. Mind you I have never read any of the Archie Sonic Comics, so maybe they did do something like this, but I'm just saying.

 

There actually was a moment similar to what you said concerning Sonic, but it was WAY back in Issue 54. 

 

[Neon Zephyr]

I guess it COULD work, it it's handled very, and I mean VERY carefully. Sonic is not the kind of guy I could see sitting in a school at all.

 

And I think that's it's just a very strange and out there concept, and its not a Sonic-like story at all. I mean, it doesn't seem necessary for any of them to even go to school. 

 

Oh, Sonic himself would probably blow the whole thing off, yeah. He's way too busy fighting Robotnik/Eggman and everything else. Sally would probably just have had private tutors from time to time. Others would be hit or miss. I don't know about it not being "Sonic enough" though, just because it's not something that the games feature. It's really just my opinion, though, and after the initial "oh hey we have this in our world again"  thing (which I think should be subtley-handled in the first place), it would really just be in the background as a bit of world-building (bolded to emphasize that I don't/wouldn't want this idea to have a ton of focus, just to exist). I mean, we have Professors and Doctors (the degree-type), so surely Mobius Sonic's World has an education system of some sort. (And, it could have presented with some potential conflict or one-line jokes that the intended audience--schoolkids--would get and understand. I'm not saying it SHOULD be, just that it's not completely unusable/etc)

 

OH. Yes, SenEDtor! I like that. That's pretty much exactly like what I'd go for (I don't remember how the issue handled it at all, honestly), if pulled off well. It'd make for an interesting, slower-paced backup story. [And, for anyone that thinks that "this is a kids' comic" and that it'd be "too dark" or something, recall that a:tla was a kids' show and it handled brainwashing, war in general, abusive parents/family, genocide, PTSD, and so forth.] 

[biznizz]

I also remember that sometimes Karl had the worst timing for his plots.

Sonic gets locked down in Knothole for the Monkey Kahn/Overlander incident? Sonic Adventure 2 comes along and things are written so haphazardly, Sonic isn't recognized for saving the world again and it happens in a single day/night.

Shadow is reintroduced into the book for the 125 milestone? It's done in a way that makes Heroes impossible to reconcile.

And Pen seemed to not even think of considering that Knuckles, as a teen, should at least get some school time. Yet Lara-Su gets to go to high school in the future, when she was her dad's age in the present.

[antyep]

Not unless he was really really really really forced to go to school (Like maybe GUN planting some kind of chip in him that'll shock him if he left school before school is officially done for the day, and shock him if he doesn't show up for school. Sadistic, yes.). If done REALLY right, it be funny to see Sonic endure school.

 

I always thought Sally would love to go to school, just to have a taste of normalcy. It be funny if she found herself being forced to go to the same classes as Sonic just to babysit him.

[horridus]

I also remember that sometimes Karl had the worst timing for his plots.

Sonic gets locked down in Knothole for the Monkey Kahn/Overlander incident? Sonic Adventure 2 comes along and things are written so haphazardly, Sonic isn't recognized for saving the world again and it happens in a single day/night.

Shadow is reintroduced into the book for the 125 milestone? It's done in a way that makes Heroes impossible to reconcile.

And Pen seemed to not even think of considering that Knuckles, as a teen, should at least get some school time. Yet Lara-Su gets to go to high school in the future, when she was her dad's age in the present.

 

He really, really did have some poor timing. The OVerlander Return was hinted at since the Sonic Adventure Adaptation and got set aside for it, and THEN SA2 happened. I still find it hilarious that he actually wound up predicting that Shadow would wind up intertwined with Aliens.