Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[biznizz]

*checks Wikipedia on Colletta*

 

Oh, wow. Yeah, I can see how conversations about that guy would get ugly.

 

I'm sure that if any inker tried that on Pen's pencils during his Sonic tenure, he'd demand they be fired and blacklisted for having the gall to ruin this kind of work...

 

[-blank-]

The hell is wrong with Julie-Su's teeth. Also, that expression she has in the second panel? Not convincing. At all.

[Verb & Noun]

Every-time the characters open their mouths their tongues stick out a bit.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

In the end, it's friggin' hilarious just how much Pen really hated Sally when, to the best of my knowledge, there was one page in one of the books where most of the staff at the time drew their interpretations of Sonic, yet Pen was the ONLY one who drew someone else, and that was Sally.

 

It's also worth noting:

 

Tails Mini- Starring Tails and the Downunda and Forty Fathoms Freedom Fighters; introucing Athair. By Gallagher

Knuckles Mini 1- Starring Knuckles and Archemedes the Fire Ant vs Enerjak. Also starring the Chaotix and introducing Locke. By Pen

Knuckles Mini 2- Starring Knuckles and the Chaotix vs the Dark Legion. Introducing Julie-Su; became the ongoing. By Pen

Sonic Mini- Starring Sonic the Hedgehog and the Freedom Fighters vs Dr. Robotnik. Lead to the ongoing. By Gallagher

 

Death Egg Saga- Starring Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as they try to get rings to save King Max. Other than nearly ramming Angel Island into the ocean, the Death Egg didn't really do much but provide a fighting location for Silver Sonic. By Gallagher

Sally Mini- Starring Geoffrey St. John and the Substitute Freedom Fighters, with a Robo-Sally. Sally Acorn cameos in issues 1 & 3. By Pen.

 

Those last two dropped the ball on what they were supposed to be about, but at least Gallagher tried harder even if his product was inferior to StC's Death Egg stories.

 

Also, wow. I completely forgot that Gallagher wrote the original 4 issues of the mini-series which lead to Sonic's ongoing. That just makes Pen even more of a hypocrite when it comes to Gallagher.

 

Gallagher was the first writer for the book, which Pen says the only ones who matter in comics were the original creative team. Yet Pen says Gallagher was less important than him.

 

Gallagher pursued other jobs and even left temporarily to work on Guardians of the Galaxy but came back. Pen tries to do so with Lost Ones, fails, and even tho he didn't 'leave', he's still got more commitment to Sonic than Gallagher did.

Sorry for the doublepost, but found it. The "Pro-Art" was from issue 25. For the record, Mike Kanterovich drew a Robotnik, but that's understandable since he was, ya know, Sonic's archnemesis from the actual games. And Mike K. never tried to kill off Robotnik (credits for Director's Cut of 50 doesn't list him, anyways).

 

 

Some of the designs are good here IMO, like Mndy's

 

One question is why is Sally's nose blue?

 

*checks Wikipedia on Colletta*

 

Oh, wow. Yeah, I can see how conversations about that guy would get ugly.

 

I'm sure that if any inker tried that on Pen's pencils during his Sonic tenure, he'd demand they be fired and blacklisted for having the gall to ruin this kind of work...

 

I still can't see the pic. Biznizz, which issue is that pic from?

[biznizz]

Hmm... odd. I can see it, and I think HollyYoshi and Verb & Noun can see it...

 

Anyways, it was a random page from the Green Chaos Knuckles arc from Sonic #99. It was illustrated by Pen, so you could probably guess. At least none of the backgrounds were f*cking photos, unlike the last one he personally drew.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Okay I saw it and yes it look really weird.

 

I read the whole issue, and...

 

Why is Sally wearing a green Loincloth.

 

Just. Why.

[Osmium]

Hmm... odd. I can see it, and I think HollyYoshi and Verb & Noun can see it...

 

Anyways, it was a random page from the Green Chaos Knuckles arc from Sonic #99. It was illustrated by Pen, so you could probably guess. At least none of the backgrounds were f*cking photos, unlike the last one he personally drew.

 

No, I can see it too. In fact, I just got back on this topic and saw the picture right now. 

 

That "NO" panel is hilarious. It looks less like he's screaming no, and more like "dat ass".

 

In fact the whole thing is hilarious. Ken has no idea how to draw character's emotions, and everybody looks bored and tired. Julie-Su had exactly one face on that page, and Knuckles has two. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

The only way I can ever see the sonicscanf.org stuff is if I quote the message, convert it to plain text, then copy and paste it.

[Verb & Noun]

Well that would be your problem.

 

You shouldn't be hotlinking directly from another website like that. You're taking their bandwidth and most websites put in measures to prevent people from doing that.

 

Rehost the image elsewhere. There's plenty of free image hosts.

[Osmium]

I've been reading the Ken Penders parts of the Sonic Adventure adaptation.(Obviously the Knuckles stories.) Just to see how much he can screw up a simple story. 

 

We start in Issue 79. 

 

The first four pages show Angel Island falling into the sea, and Knuckles saying it's all his fault. 

 

 

Only for it to be a dream. But it actually happened. Wait,WHAT? Why did Angel Island fall in his dreams only for him to wake up and say it was only a dream to see that it actually happened?? 

 

God, we're only 5 pages in(Two of which were one giant picture) and already this story makes no fucking sense! 

 

The rest of the story is just a bunch of boring exposition with Eggman dabbling on and on about finding Chaos.

 

Apparently Chaos is sealed in some Black Emerald which Eggman had to break.

Wait, but isn't Chaos supposed to be sealed in the Master Emerald? Why would they just introduce another emerald for no reason? Some of Penders' choices are really questionable and seem to only be here to take up page space. 

 

Then there's a page that really awkwardly tries to mesh the Archie canon with the SEGA canon. This is a huge mess, and it's even more of a mess in the Sonic stories but those are written by Bollers so I will avoid them.(God, we need a Bollers topic.) 

They of couse had to involve the twelve million Echinas somehow.

 

Issue 80 continues with Knuckles talking to Locke and some other Echinas. Oh great, Archimedes is here. Joy.

 

Of course, the story can't be complete without a bunch of unnecessary technobabble. 

Why can't they just do an adaptation for right for once. Why can't Knuckles just go search for Master Emerald pieces? Why does there need to be a talk with other echidnas? Why is Penders trying to bore me to death? 

 

FINALLY Knuckles is going to search for emerald pieces(Which is what he should have been doing since the beginning). 

 

But of course, that can wait as we have a bunch of bullshit with the Chaotix and those dumbass cats. 

 

What does any of this bullshit have to do with Sonic Adventure 

 

Moving on to issue 81, theres a bunch more boring exposition with Eggman who can't shut his trap for one panel. 

 

Knuckles then heads to some ruins to ... wander around and think to himself. JOY. 

Well, at least this has SOMETHING to do with Adventure. 

 

The rest of the story has to do with the Chaotix being enslaved by those dumbass cats. Once again, what the fuck does this have to do with Adventure? 

 

Issue 82, is actually kinda close to the game storyline. Even though Tikal looks NOTHING like how she's supposed to in this top panel. 

I actually don't really have a problem with these few pages as it's basically what happened in Adventure, even though I don't know why they decided to replace the opposing Echidna tribes with those fucking Cats. This still isn't the best way they could have handled it. Tikal could have sent Knuckles to the past to witness all of this instead of having to listen to more backstory on top of some yellow pictures. 

 

The next page of the story is about how Eggman creates Chaos 0 from a fucking frog. WHAT?? 

 

I though Chaos 0 was what came out of the Master Emerald(I'm sorry, Black Emerald)! Why is Eggman creating Chaos 0 with a frog?? That's not even what the point of Froggy was in Sonic Adventure! I thought the point of Eggman trying to catch Froggy is because Froggy had a Chaos Emerald inside him, not to transform him into Chaos 0. Did the Archie staff just hear "Frog" at one point? You know what? Whatever, forget it. 

Then there's some more stuff about the Chaotix and those dumbass cats. I couldn't give a fuck. 

 

Issue 83 was written by Bollers, so I won't talk about it. 

 

Issue 84 (Which was written entirely by Penders) starts with Locke, the blandest character in the world talking with the dumbass cats. Okay. 

 

The fight between Super Sonic and Perfect Chaos is still going, Sonic you get to see some grand Pender's Sonic dialogue. 

 

Oh yeah, there's the Gal-Pal panel.

 

Meanwhile, Knuckles thinks to himself and runs around. 

 

So I guess Knuckle raised this power plant, and Sonic ran Chaos into it, which shocked him back into Chaos 0. I don't know why they had to shock him, as Super Sonic defeating him alone in the game seemed fine. I guess it was probably Penders trying to shoehorn him in to the finale. 

 

After this, there's another Knuckles story. And guess what, it's really boring. 

 

 

Of course he had to shoehorn in a bunch of echidnas and make a huge technical thing out of something as simple as Knuckles throwing the fucking shards onto the Master Emerald pedestal. 

 

The rest of the story has to do with Knuckles reuniting with the Chaotix and stuff, but I can't pay fucking attention to it. 

 

So, this adaptation sucked hard. It was really weird and lackluster because it tried way too hard to mesh the Archie and Game canon together, there's a lot of really odd choices for the story, and it's really fucking boring. And it seemed to be an excuse almost to put in a bunch of boring ass characters (those dumbass cats). 

 

The story's also way too complicated for what should have been Knuckles finding the Master Emerald Shards to fix the Master Emerald. We don't need Locke, or the other twelve million echidnas, or the Chaotix, or cats. 

 

I would love to talk about how much the Sonic parts sucked too, but those aren't written by Penders. 

 

 

FUCK, this is a long post! XD

[QuantumEdge]

Man, that adaption sucked.  More so than Shyamalan's Avatar film possibly when it comes to adaptions from other material.  What really gets me though, is how Super Sonic is used as some distraction instead of the one thing that can stop Perfect Chaos.  I know editorial weren't given any favours from Sega, but the least they could've grasped was that Super Sonic is supposed to be the saviour, not Knuckles.

[Osmium]

Man, that adaption sucked.  More so than Shyamalan's Avatar film possibly when it comes to adaptions from other material.  What really gets me though, is how Super Sonic is used as some distraction instead of the one thing that can stop Perfect Chaos.  I know editorial weren't given any favours from Sega, but the least they could've grasped was that Super Sonic is supposed to be the saviour, not Knuckles.

 

That part is really strange. I don't get why Penders made Knuckles the one to turn Chaos back into Chaos 0. It was pretty clear that Sonic's the one who takes him down in the game, and Knuckles was a bystander. 

[SBR2]

In fairness to Penders on a couple facts about the Adaptation.

 

Master Emerald/Black Emerald: The Master Emerald had only recently came into the Archie continuity. Angel Island was held up by a Chaos Emerald and a spare one that merged with Mammoth Mogul who was powered by 11 Chaos Emeralds sucked out of Enerjak. It was overly complicated but it would have made zero sense for Chaos to be in the Master Emerald since it was still pretty new.

 

Echidna's fighting the Cats instead of the Nocturnous: They didn't exist. We only knew the Echidna's were fighting someone so the Cats were better than nothing. Remember in STC they fought Aliens.

[Osmium]

In fairness to Penders on a couple facts about the Adaptation.

 

Master Emerald/Black Emerald: The Master Emerald had only recently came into the Archie continuity. Angel Island was held up by a Chaos Emerald and a spare one that merged with Mammoth Mogul who was powered by 11 Chaos Emeralds sucked out of Enerjak. It was overly complicated but it would have made zero sense for Chaos to be in the Master Emerald since it was still pretty new.

 

Echidna's fighting the Cats instead of the Nocturnous: They didn't exist. We only knew the Echidna's were fighting someone so the Cats were better than nothing. Remember in STC they fought Aliens.

 

It's still Archie fault in my opinion that they didn't incorporate the Master Emerald when it was introduced in Sonic & Knuckles. They brought that mess upon themselves.

 

I always assumed that the different tribes of Echidnas were fighting each other. Even though the Nocturnous wouldn't be introduced for years it was clear that the Knuckles clan were probably fighting a different Echidna tribe. 

[therealfalconpawnch77]

It's still Archie fault in my opinion that they didn't incorporate the Master Emerald when it was introduced in Sonic & Knuckles. They brought that mess upon themselves.

 

I always assumed that the different tribes of Echidnas were fighting each other. Even though the Nocturnous wouldn't be introduced for years it was clear that the Knuckles clan were probably fighting a different Echidna tribe.

Archie couldn't do that, they already introduced the fact that the island was floating because of a Chaos Emerald in the Sonic 3 story. (If I am remembering correctly)

[Osmium]

Archie couldn't do that, they already introduced the fact that the island was floating because of a Chaos Emerald in the Sonic 3 story. (If I am remembering correctly)

 

They could have retconned that Chaos Emerald into the Master Emerald. They looked about the same, and had the same purpose. It would have only been a name change. 

 

It would have saved them a lot of trouble. 

[therealfalconpawnch77]

They could have retconned that Chaos Emerald into the Master Emerald. They looked about the same, and had the same purpose. It would have only been a name change. 

 

It would have saved them a lot of trouble.

They couldn't have known that something like that would happen though. At the time making the Master Emerald later on was okay because all that they knew it did was make the floating island float. Hindsight may be 20-20 but at the time there was absolutely no reason to suspect that the Master Emerald was more important than what it was in Sonic 3&K.

[Zaysho]

It's still Archie fault in my opinion that they didn't incorporate the Master Emerald when it was introduced in Sonic & Knuckles. They brought that mess upon themselves.

 

I always assumed that the different tribes of Echidnas were fighting each other. Even though the Nocturnous wouldn't be introduced for years it was clear that the Knuckles clan were probably fighting a different Echidna tribe.

 

Considering the second half of the game was coming out the same year, I'd just as easily blame SEGA for not telling Archie basic, common sense stuff like there are only seven Chaos Emeralds or about the Master Emerald. Every single adaptation/promotion was rushed and poorly integrated because of SEGA not giving enough and wanting them out just in time, and also for Archie's team not asking for more. The lack of communication between the two during the 90s is still one of the most bizarre things to me, especially considering the series' longevity.

 

Also, gonna echo Verb and say that we probably shouldn't be hotlinking from SCANF. Rehost, please.

[Osmium]

Yes, it wasn't just Archie's fault, it was SEGA's too. 

 

I'm sorry if my viewpoints seem incredibly ignorant about this. I feel like I'm just digging myself further into a hole. 

[Zaysho]

Yes, it wasn't just Archie's fault, it was SEGA's too. 

 

I'm sorry if my viewpoints seem incredibly ignorant about this. I feel like I'm just digging myself further into a hole. 

 

No, it's fine. I like to make sure blame lands where it firmly belongs, and that's why I don't necessarily want to just default to "Oh, it's Archie's/SEGA's/Penders's fault!" One thing Pen isn't completely wrong about is that things were certainly a little more complicated than most people would know... the problem is he's obviously not giving the whole story whenever he tells it, either. I'm not going to claim what I'm saying is 100% accurate or anything, it's mostly going off what is known about editorial and SEGA's involvement over the years, and seeing what corroborates and contradicts Penders's own statements. I'd be happy just saying it's all Penders, but I know it's not true. The stories are bad? That'd be on him. The stories contradict the games/cartoons? Well, that's a lot more complicated, and while the bulk of it would be on Penders for not doing simple research or making any kind of effort to do so, there's also the fact that no one above him at Archie or SEGA told him "no" most of the time leading to the mess we have.

[biznizz]

Sorry. Later today, I'll try to find an image hoster which can have all the pic I posted put in them instead.

Also, Froggy didn't just have a Chaos Emerald, he also fused with Chaos' tail which was important for some reason (which is why there was no visible tail on Perfect Chaos). But Froggy was only captured to complete Chaos 6 and give him his tail back, not to constitute 0.

Also, Pen & Karl completely drop the ball with Gamma's story so hard, he actually survived. Ian would have to finish him off in Universe's first arc by having Omega absorb Gamma's programming to have him join GUN since there was no way to adapt Heroea properly with the old canon.

[biznizz]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/601890946922389504

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/601891340784259072

 

akira kazama ‏@leothechimera20 May 22

@KenPenders ok what about lien-da and kragok what was their creation like as well as dimitri?

 

Ken Penders ‏@KenPenders

@leothechimera20 Kragok came about because I wanted to establish the Dark Legion in the present timeline.

 

@leothechimera20 Lien-Da was me thinking that a real badass female villain would be a good thing to spice things up in the storyline.

[Verb & Noun]

Well she also stood around in a catsuit.

 

That's character development, right?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

 

Also, gonna echo Verb and say that we probably shouldn't be hotlinking from SCANF. Rehost, please.

[horridus]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/601890946922389504

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/601891340784259072

 

 

 

 

Yep. Lien-Da was such a badass female villain, that she wasn't even given a name for the first year after her creation, or at least it was never spoken. She was just referred to as Commissionar, IIRC. Not to mention that the only villainous things Pen had her do was in flashback where she had her background info relayed to Julie-Su during her Girls Rule! story.