2014 is The Year Of Sonic "& Sports tape" *see post 1*

[Chaos Warp]

How I read that last line...

When you think about it, it makes sense though. Sonic nowadays seems to be more about catering to the general gaming public then the fans. Not automatically a bad thing, just pointing it out. 

[RK64]

One interesting thing I think we forgot to talk about may be future games using Sonics extended cast again. No, not like in the Adventure games (where everyone has their own gameplay....dam you Big the Cat ) but them experiencing the same level but in different ways ala the Genesis games. The new designs could fit into this too; Tails using his tech skills to use the Bandniks in unique ways (riding a Motorbug or flying with a Buzzbomber for example) and Buffles using his fingered fists kill multiple Bandniks in one shot (jumping on one creating a small area effect killing all other surrounding foes?).

 

I don't know, but Knuckles and Amy being in that picture (plus them appearing in Lost World) all point to them having large roles in the series again and could create interesting stories outside of Sonic/Tails fight Eggman for the 100th time.

 

I honestly think they aren't going to mix things up to much; the characters are still going to be the characters we all love, just with a slightly (or for Buffles case, very different ) different look. This could give characters like Amy and Knuckles a better chance to shine, and with that not being the case since Sonic Heroes, that is a great thing .

I wonder if the cocktails will be one of these winners:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=99802268&postcount=143

 

SEGA can't even make good drinks xP

Quality-wise, yeah. We've had some poopers before, but there's a distinctly different direction the series has taken since Colors. He's not wrong in that sense if that direction isn't one you like.

 

Probably not Pontac's fault, in fact I'm sure it was SEGA in reaction to the reactions to the past stories, but it did start at the same time.

 

Dat drink man...talk about something looking THAT disgusting .

[Gatestormer]

Even though this is a little bit nerve-racking, I'm still not expecting a full reboot with new designs, it wouldn't make any sense. Back when Sonic Adventure came out, the franchise had been quiet over the past few years, what with X-Treme being cancelled and no big games for the Saturn. It was the ideal time to revamp Sonic.

 

But now? SEGA are really pushing the Sonic brand as he is today, think of everything that's happening at the moment. Sonic under it's current image has got a rollercoaster at Alton Towers, SEGA Joypolis in Tokyo has only just been renovated with a new Sonic Carnival, Jazwares are shoving figures by the truckload, A new 2014 Annual was just released, and a load of new books on the way soon. That's not to mention all of the clothing, bedsheets, curtains, mugs, hats, keychains, posters, wallscrolls, phone cases and even then I'm missing stuff out. Companies looking to use the license aren't going to get involved if their products will be out of date in a year or two.

 

On top of the merchandise and everything, the games have just been revamped last year with Lost World. A franchise reboot would be something that had been in the planning for years, don't you think if they were going to do it, they wouldn't have just introduced a new gameplay style with current Sonic, but instead introduce the new ideas when the franchise reboots?

 

I don't think you prepare for a reboot by promoting the old version are much as you can. It just doesn't add up. 

[-Mark-]

I think that's a huge problem with perception of the stories, see.

 

It's wrong to assume that a story cannot be taken seriously/ good purely on the grounds that it has a talking blue hedgehog.

 

This isn't so much to the people here, but to the general attitude some people have of "Well what are you expecting from a Sonic story?" and poking fun at the series for 'taking itself too seriously'. 

 

Okay, let's assume you're of the camp that thinks that all the Sonic games have had bad writing. If we agree that the bigger, more serious, 'epic' stories weren't bad on a conceptual level, and that it was more due to poor execution, then SEGA have just taken the easy way out, or misunderstood. 

 

In reaction to the opinion of 'these stories suck', they've taken the easy way out. Rather than try and write good big, serious, multi-layered plots, they've just abandoned them and have taken to the fluffy, juvenile shit that we have now.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

@ Jovahexeon: Yeah, don't believe you.

Believe what you will. Such people do exist for real.

[SuperLink]

When you think about it, it makes sense though. Sonic nowadays seems to be more about catering to the general gaming public then the fans. Not automatically a bad thing, just pointing it out.

That's generally how most media works. Any successful game or film franchise isn't made for the fans, it's made for everyone and if everyone likes it chances are a lot of the fans will too. Sonic fans just aren't used to it because for a while they're the only ones who would actually put up with the game quality :V

 

In reaction to the opinion of 'these stories suck', they've taken the easy way out. Rather than try and write good big, serious, multi-layered plots, they've just abandoned them and have taken to the fluffy, juvenile shit that we have now.

This is also true, but as I just added to my previous post, SEGA know they're genuinely not capable of it.

Look it's really not as easy as it looks to make a genuinely really good story especially if your profession or area of expertise is game development and not writing. A big Sonic story that's also really good is perfectly possible, but not under Sonic Team when they as professional game developers can't even put a fuckin' game design together without screwing it up.

 

EDIT: Also juvenile =/= "shit", it's inoffensive, which is exactly what they're going for. They're famous for fucking up, so they're throwing away what they were criticised for most, which was stories and cutscenes.

[Marcello]

One interesting thing I think we forgot to talk about may be future games using Sonics extended cast again. No, not like in the Adventure games (where everyone has their own gameplay....dam you Big the Cat ) but them experiencing the same level but in different ways ala the Genesis games. The new designs could fit into this too; Tails using his tech skills to use the Bandniks in unique ways (riding a Motorbug or flying with a Buzzbomber for example) and Buffles using his fingered fists kill multiple Bandniks in one shot (jumping on one creating a small area effect killing all other surrounding foes?).

 

I don't know, but Knuckles and Amy being in that picture (plus them appearing in Lost World) all point to them having large roles in the series again and could create interesting stories outside of Sonic/Tails fight Eggman for the 100th time.

 

I honestly think they aren't going to mix things up to much; the characters are still going to be the characters we all love, just with a slightly (or for Buffles case, very different ) different look. This could give characters like Amy and Knuckles a better chance to shine, and with that not being the case since Sonic Heroes, that is a great thing .

 

Dat drink man...talk about something looking THAT disgusting .

Did Knuckles even have a line in Lost World? I don't remember any. All I remember is him standing in the background while Amy did the talking.

 

Also, your Tails gameplay idea sort of reminds me of Crash of the Titans. Was it based on that?

[DarkLight]

Knuckles just boasted about how he would've gotten things taken care of quickly than Sonic.

 

Simple friendly-rival stuff.

[RK64]

Did Knuckles even have a line in Lost World? I don't remember any. All I remember is him standing in the background while Amy did the talking.

 

Also, your Tails gameplay idea sort of reminds me of Crash of the Titans. Was it based on that?

 

Knuckles did have a line.....one in the beginning of the game ...

 

I guess my Tails idea does come from that game; it wasn't completely based of that (more so the part of Lost World where he tinkers with a Crabmeat) but I guess it does .

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think you prepare for a reboot by promoting the old version are much as you can. It just doesn't add up. 

It's funny, because I've been thinking the same thing lately, which is probably why I'm not really down about it.

 

Sonic Boom may just be its own thing like that of many different parts of the franchise, but I'm not expecting the games themselves to jump onboard the redesigns. Meanwhile, the upcoming Smash Bros has the current Sonic, Archie!Sonic already had somewhat of a reboot while keeping the current sonic, and we've got two games still with the same Sonic. Nevermind all the other merchandising they've done with the series.

 

I mean, there's reason to be cautious, and considering the changes that have gone on, it wouldn't be farfetched to think they'll reboot things. But it does bring to question why they would do so like this.

[Willsy]

Really fuckin' hate this notion that it's only with the new writers that the series has started failing...

I mean in terms of story. What I was implying is that the series isn't really going anywhere plot-wise, it seems to just be paddling itself around in a circle. I'm interested to see what a reboot has to offer, but I am nervous.

[Diogenes]

It wasn't going anywhere before they came on board either.

[Gabz Girl]

Put me on the bus of "I don't like the new writers"

 

or the new voice actors

 

or the new redesigns

 

I don't like Sonic

 

Then why are you here? XP

 

Well I sorta agree with you. Sorta. It's not that I don't like Sonic I've just lost interest in the franchise since Sonic Colours. The writing isn't terrible, it's just too safe and short. The new voice actors are muuuuch better than the 4Kids cast but I don't think they've been given enough lines to show off their acting chops. =/

 

I'm looking forward to whatever shitstorm we get after this Sonic Boom reveal. Or maybe it won't be so bad (doubt it).

[-Mark-]

Knuckles just boasted about how he would've gotten things taken care of quickly than Sonic.

 

Simple friendly-rival stuff.

 

That's basically the one line Knuckles has had since the new writers took over, just recycled.

 

 

EDIT: Also juvenile =/= "shit", it's inoffensive, which is exactly what they're going for. They're famous for fucking up, so they're throwing away what they were criticised for most, which was stories and cutscenes.

 

I dunno, I'd actually say Lost World was the first time I actually did find a the writing in a Sonic game outright offensive.

[Detective Shadzter]

Leaving for work now. Hope everything turns out well. See you all when I get back in about 8 hours. My mind will be going crazy with thoughts of what'll be revealed while I'm at work.

[Solkia]

Then why are you here? XP

 

Well I sorta agree with you. Sorta. It's not that I don't like Sonic I've just lost interest in the franchise since Sonic Colours. The writing isn't terrible, it's just too safe and short. The new voice actors are muuuuch better than the 4Kids cast but I don't think they've been given enough lines to show off their acting chops. =/

 

I'm looking forward to whatever shitstorm we get after this Sonic Boom reveal. Or maybe it won't be so bad (doubt it).

 

I was being facetious with the last line :V

[Gabz Girl]

So we expect to hear something about Sonic Boom in just a few hours already? O.O Better keep my eye on this topic then.

 

I was being facetious with the last line :V

 

Eheh, note the XP emoticon after my message there. ;D

[spinny]

The thing is criticism isn't given to make a company decide to give up. Criticism exists to improve what you're doing and sadly, Sonic Team took the aforementioned, lazy way out and gave up with big plots. I for one actually liked SA1/Heroes/Unleashed's plots and think if Sonic Team hired the right writers, they could definitely build a very nice story.

 

The thing is, it honestly doesn't seem like Pontac is able to do that to me. We got an emotional moment in Colors which was automatically followed with a joke about tingly nosehairs or whatever the fuck and Lost World had this "i was too slow to save my buddy" trash and seeing Tails' escape scene literally right after he was kidnapped really killed off all suspense. It would've been better for the cyber Tails to appear, then he all of a sudden turned back against the Deadly Six, THEN we get him explaining how he escaped to Sonic with a flashback or something.

[Diogenes]

The thing is criticism isn't given to make a company decide to give up. Criticism exists to improve what you're doing and sadly, Sonic Team took the aforementioned, lazy way out and gave up with big plots. I for one actually liked SA1/Heroes/Unleashed's plots and think if Sonic Team hired the right writers, they could definitely build a very nice story.

How the hell is Heroes lumped in with "big plots", its story was nothing more than "everyone ran around and fought each other for no reason and then it was Metal Sonic all along!"

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The thing is criticism isn't given to make a company decide to give up. Criticism exists to improve what you're doing and sadly, Sonic Team took the aforementioned, lazy way out and gave up with big plots.

I don't think that was actually the case when much of said criticism was explicitly telling them to give up on these things instead of improve them.

 

As in, give up on stories, give up on characters, hell give up on the 3D dimension, and a slew of other junk they disguised as "criticism".

[SuperLink]

The thing is criticism isn't given to make a company decide to give up. Criticism exists to improve what you're doing and sadly, Sonic Team took the aforementioned, lazy way out and gave up with big plots. I for one actually liked SA1/Heroes/Unleashed's plots and think if Sonic Team hired the right writers, they could definitely build a very nice story.

 

The thing is, it honestly doesn't seem like Pontac is able to do that to me.

Keep in mind Pontac is very likely being given strict mandates by SEGA. A western writer with limited communication to a backwards Japanese developer dishing out ridiculous rules isn't going to make writing anything good very easy at all.

 

I like to think Pontac makes decent work of the strictly tight outline he's given, the real problem likely comes from SEGA Japan.

 

And yeah, criticism is supposed to help, but when critics and older Sonic fans alike were screaming at SEGA for the big plots to go away, SEGA clearly chickened out because after having persisted with trying to do plots for like 8-9 years they still couldn't do it to a satisfactory or professional standard.

 

Meanwhile developers creating simple but fun games with minimal plots were still getting hella praise, the easy way out was indeed the easy way out, but I think in terms of Sonic trying to keep what little good reputation he had, it was one of the better decisions SEGA could have made. (the best decision being to dump Sonic Team and give Sonic to a really talented dev team but u kno). Shaking off a bad image has got to start somewhere, and to most of the game community the bad image was intrinsically linked to things like "dumb pretentious stories" or "too many characters".

 

Things have become so complex for Sonic's image now, so a reboot does make sense, I just hope it's a good one if it does happen :/ he could really do with a fresh start and as little pre-conceptions as possible right now. Because yeah no matter what SEGA do they ain't impressing both the SA-fandom and the Classic-fandom at the same time. Rebooting would at least get both of their attention and hopefully a relatively open mind.

 

Not saying it'll go that well.. but it's a better idea than continuing to fight a losing battle with their fanbases.

[Willsy]

Love the new character <3

[Sami]

That's generally how most media works. Any successful game or film franchise isn't made for the fans, it's made for everyone and if everyone likes it chances are a lot of the fans will too. Sonic fans just aren't used to it because for a while they're the only ones who would actually put up with the game quality :V

This is also true, but as I just added to my previous post, SEGA know they're genuinely not capable of it.

Look it's really not as easy as it looks to make a genuinely really good story especially if your profession or area of expertise is game development and not writing. A big Sonic story that's also really good is perfectly possible, but not under Sonic Team when they as professional game developers can't even put a fuckin' game design together without screwing it up.

EDIT: Also juvenile =/= "shit", it's inoffensive, which is exactly what they're going for. They're famous for fucking up, so they're throwing away what they were criticised for most, which was stories and cutscenes.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

To me, Lost World could perfectly be described as "juvenile shit". That's my opinion. Pre-existing characters were written obnoxiously, there's hardly any plot progression to speak of, there's no meaningful character development, etc.

Many people here will absolutely disagree, but a decent narrative is a necessity for me on a full-priced retail console game. It's why I never bothered finishing the Mario Galaxy games - without a worthwhile narrative I just wasn't engaged and got too bored to continue. Sonic adopting this style is extremely disappointing to me, even despite loving Colors as a one-off, low budget filler title. The levels having no context and arbitrarily floating in the sky doesn't help.

They're not capable? SEGA Sammy just reported an $11.35 million profit this year. They just bought an entire publishing company (Atlus) a few months ago. You'd think that with all the money they're making right now, they could spare the cash to hire a handful of talented people to work on their flagship mascot franchise.

I have higher expectations than mediocrity. Maybe I shouldn't be a Sonic fan.

[Doctor MK]

Love the new character <3

 

"My name is Soreass and I come from the Planet Earth... TWO! I have come to destroy the Chaos Emeralds to make rock candy!"

 

(and so on)

[SuperLink]

You don't like it but the majority of critics prefer that angle to the widely hated (outside the fan community) storytelling of 2001-2008. My original point was that you don't have to like it but at least respect that it's far more healthy for Sonic as a franchise to keep things simple, especially if...

 

They're not capable? SEGA Sammy just reported an $11.35 million profit this year. They just bought an entire publishing company (Atlus) a few months ago. You'd think that with all the money they're making right now, they could spare the cash to hire a handful of talented people to work on their flagship mascot franchise.

I have higher expectations than mediocrity. Maybe I shouldn't be a Sonic fan.

SEGA Sammy clearly just don't care very much? I literally can't think of any other reason they're so blindly obsessed with having Sonic games only developed by a Team who seriously can't get their shit together for more than a few years after almost two decades. What other heavily-relied on developer do you know who has to keep trying before they can finally put a good game out?

 

Until SEGA Sammy decide to let Sonic off the leash and pay a genuinely talented developer to handle at least the game-development aspect their flagship mascot franchise, no one has any reason to believe they'll go out of their way to do anything good for Sonic.

 

Knowing how successful SEGA have been this year, and knowing that Sonic Team is still their go-to-guy for making Sonic games, you're surprised about this? Say what you want about how amazing Sonic Team used to be, but their track record for recent years is frankly awful for a game developer people put so much importance on. Honestly for any other company, keeping Sonic with them would be simply baffling, but SEGA Sammy are just really nonchalant with how they handle their game department and have been for a long time.

 

Sonic Team is a huge problem. There are no two ways about it. The fact that SEGA continues to get so much criticism for Sonic and still won't even consider outsourcing him to anyone besides Dimps (also so much criticism) is an even bigger problem.

 

So yeah I believe they're not capable. Sonic's whole development situation is a complex amalgamation of incompetence all on its own. And that upsets me far more than things like "story".