Mighty No.9 - New Inafune title!

[MegasonicZX]

With all the crap thats been going on with the fanbase of this game, I seriously question if it would've been funded had alot of this stuff been announced back then (or atleast meet most of the stretch goals).

[Conando]

About the whole feminism thing. I think we're confusing actual feminists and the women that want to be "more equal" than men. Still, Dina has done nothing that paints her as the second type. Who honestly gives a crap when she has no major effect on the game, though. She's doing what, designing the Mighty Number 9 equivalent of hammer joes?

[Billybobsanic]

So... This whole 'controversy' is completely fucking overblown and amounts to a bunch of men freaking out over a girl essentially 'invading their space'. Why am I not surprised?

Except that's wrong. Everyone is trying to chalk this whole thing up to, "abloo bloo bloo womanz in muh gamez!" when that's far from the truth. It's already known that there has been a woman on the design team since the project began. Manami Matsumae is doing the soundtrack.

 

The problem people have with Dina is that she is very incompetent. She lied then tried covering it up and is now hiding behind the mods. I think it's stupid to hire someone with little to no megaman knowledge - even if this is a completely new franchise - but wouldn't have necessarily been a deal breaker if she had just come clean about not knowing anything about megaman. Instead she panicked and went into full damage control mode. I don't want someone like that as CM of the MN9 forums.

 

A lot of the backers also have concerns about her views on feminism, (which in my opinion she freaking crazy). Honestly, I don't think she has any influence at all on the actual design of anything (and her art doesn't suit the style of MN9 at all), but people still have a right to be concerned about their investments. If the project is going in a direction they feel is straying to far from what they were advertised, they have a right to voice their opinion on the matters and even request refunds.

[Nepenthe]

About the whole feminism thing. I think we're confusing actual feminists and the women that want to be "more equal" than men. Still, Dina has done nothing that paints her as the second type. Who honestly gives a crap when she has no major effect on the game, though. She's doing what, designing the Mighty Number 9 equivalent of hammer joes?

 

Also, it's kind of annoying that a person asking for or hoping for someone to merely put more minorities in games is considered to be shoving their political views down everyone's throat, like a girl or a black character or a gay character can only be a statement. People say the artists should be free to do whatever they want without realizing that A.) Most devs don't have direct control over their products as we know from the Last of Us scandal, and B.) Assuming that they did and every video game produced in history has been a true reflection of an individual's creative freedom, the combined social effect we see from that is complete dearth of minority characters in heroic situations, much less playable ones. The status quo is that your hero's most likely going to be a male of either Caucasian or Asian descent, because from an artistic standpoint that's simply the easiest player avatar to conceive of, and from a business perspective that's what they presume the largest market wants to see. One of the only ways that characters are ever going to better reflect the diversity of the gaming populous is by developers making the conscious decision to put them in. That isn't insidious, even if done in response to a perceived problem, and we shouldn't be going after anyone who dares ask for the higher levels of representation of characters they can more easily relate to or want to see.

[Diogenes]

I think it's stupid to hire someone with little to no megaman knowledge - even if this is a completely new franchise

It's not, though. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

A lot of the backers also have concerns about her views on feminism, (which in my opinion she freaking crazy).

Based on what?

[Nepenthe]

The problem people have with Dina is that she is very incompetent. She lied then tried covering it up and is now hiding behind the mods. I think it's stupid to hire someone with little to no megaman knowledge - even if this is a completely new franchise - but wouldn't have necessarily been a deal breaker if she had just come clean about not knowing anything about megaman. Instead she panicked and went into full damage control mode. I don't want someone like that as CM of the MN9 forums.

 

Did she panic in response to the response that her public thoughts about the game were somehow "found out?" Or did she panic in response to the gaming populous doing their clockwork routine towards figures in the industry they disagree with and hurling all manner of abuse and short-sightedness at her?

[Red Cap]

Did she panic in response to the response that her public thoughts about the game were somehow "found out?" Or did she panic in response to the gaming populous doing their clockwork routine towards figures in the industry they disagree with and hurling all manner of abuse and short-sightedness at her?

 

From what I can tell, neither. People were getting annoyed about this and they started asking questions, but I doubt that they started sending her thousands of hate-messages and  death threats. If they did, we probably would've heard about it by now.

[Celestia]

A lot of the backers also have concerns about her views on feminism, (which in my opinion she freaking crazy).

 

What, exactly, are her views on feminism that are considered "crazy"?

[Solkia]

The problem people have with Dina is that she is very incompetent.

 

This project is led by Inafune. This whole project was incompetent from the start.

[WhoWhatMan]

http://www.giantbomb.com/mighty-no-9/3030-43790/forums/mighty-no-9-backer-community-in-unrest-1463741/

 

Again, hopefully this will not happen. Perhaps I'm even doing it a disservice by trying to get under this issue and giving it more exposure. However, I'd like for the basic facts to be out there and available before people start reacting to summations of a complex community issue. How people interpret those facts is up to them.

 

Too bad it kinda did.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think it's fair to assume everyone you meet is an asshole

 ...well it helps me treat people equally at least, unless I'm see otherwise they're not an asshole.

 

At any rate, I swear this whole debacle is almost completely parallel to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s, except replace water hoses and dogs with hate-mail/messages and youtube rants and that at lot of this fear towards feminism is just reactionary bullying for the wrong reasons.

 

And the funny thing that makes this ironic is that the reactionary bullies probably wouldn't have that much of a problem with more female representation in games. Okay, maybe that's being too optimistic here, since we still have shit relations between gender and race that seems to demand and favor one be dominant over the other...and dictate how others should be...yeah, that's too optimistic.

[MegasonicZX]

So to get away from this subject for a bit (cause honestly the whole thing is just one big overblown complaint of stupid) I was wondering if anyones ever heard of this game called megabyte punch which is somewhat of a megaman/smash bros/custom robo hybrid of a game that has a concept that reminds me of this game, which would be the defeat enemies and take parts from them for your own use system, I know that its probably looking to deep into it but what if inafune got a little bit of inspiration from this game as well.

[Solly]

My two cents on the whole "issue" with Dina. 

 

I agree with the majority saying that she's not going to have any negative impact on the game. She's a designer for some enemy robots and a community manager. I don't think there's anything crazy about her feminist views, and I think that it's a good, well-meaning cause. The animosity toward her from some people seems like it's rooted in paranoia. I personally don't even care much about that whole nepotism thing. She doesn't strike me as being unqualified and people getting positions based on associations is just a fact of life. And no, her not having played a Mega Man game before isn't a big deal. At all. 

 

So yeah, Dina's not a problem. I'm sure she'll do a fine job as a designer, and people thinking the game is going to become some kind of platform for her beliefs (which are good) are out of their minds.

With that said, I think the people jumping to defend her by saying she'd never push any type of agenda onto the game are ignoring the fact that she already has, in however small of a way. During the Kickstarter, she expressed her wish to see Beck turned into a female robot, and made (sorta creepy) fanart promoting the idea. As someone who totally wouldn't have minded a female Beck from the beginning, and someone who pledged more than the average person, I have to say that wish is pretty selfish toward the other backers, even though she thinks it's in the interest of every other girl who plays videogames. I know, I know, it's fanart and it never had a chance, and I agree with basically all of her other points, but as paranoid as it is to think she'd negatively impact the game, there's nothing sexist about thinking she'd try, even if she wouldn't do so as a designer. 

 

But yeah, overall, the hate for her seems really unwarranted.

[Diogenes]

With that said, I think the people jumping to defend her by saying she'd never push any type of agenda onto the game are ignoring the fact that she already has, in however small of a way. During the Kickstarter, she expressed her wish to see Beck turned into a female robot, and made (sorta creepy) fanart promoting the idea.

Having an opinion is pushing an agenda, now?

[Blitz 'n Burst]

She wants to see more females in video games. That isn't pushing some radical feminist agenda that's going to ruin video games and anybody who thinks it is needs to pull their head out of their ass immediately. The Beck picture isn't even official art, it's a fucking doodle she drew just for the hell of it. If she was actively pushing to make Beck female then you might have a point, but even if she would have went that far to have a female protagonist she won't anyway because Call is already in the game anyway.

 

People are making a mountain out of a molehill because Feminist = crazy, apparently.

[Solly]

Having an opinion is pushing an agenda, now?

No, but saying "Please make Call a playable character, or even better, make Beck a female bot altogether" can be construed as such. She wasn't doing it aggressively, mind you, but she was motioning for Beck to be turned into a girl, and made fanart promoting the cause. It's kinda different from saying "I would like it if Beck were female" even if both are equally ineffective.

 

I'm not saying this is something she actively did either, or that this was some kind of big attempted movement. 

 

It should also be noted than I'm not saying she would have this attitude at all as a member of the design team, but she seemed really interested in women's representation in female representation in the game, so why is it sexist to assume she may try and influence others on the team?

 

EDIT: Before I forget, I should mention that I am in no way implying that she still has any interest in making FemBeck a reality. I am not saying that her views are going to influence her work in any way shape or form.

She wants to see more females in video games. That isn't pushing some radical feminist agenda that's going to ruin video games and anybody who thinks it is needs to pull their head out of their ass immediately. 

Nobody is saying that. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with it.

[Eternal EX]

Soooooooo. Has there been any gameplay videos of this game yet? 

[DaBatGuy]

Soooooooo. Has there been any gameplay videos of this game yet? 

Nope, it's only been in development for a few months.

[Nepenthe]

Why is it a bad thing to merely express the wish for more minority representation in games? Why is it an "agenda" to say "Hey, it'd be nice if there was a black/female/gay character for freakin' once?" The framing as this wish as "shoving an agenda where it doesn't belong" comes across as dismissively privileged and short-sighted. 

 

Why? Because if we value the individual to the point that we believe "the artist should create whatever they want without social interference or censorship," then the combined effect of everyone doing that will be that you will mostly see white men at the forefront of games. One of the ways to change this is to demand more minorities in games. Another way to do this is get into the industry and effect change yourself as best you can through your own games or using your elevated platform to express desires.

But both of these are automatically considered bringing up social justice warrior nonsense where it wasn't needed, as if everything on the production was perfect from a social or cultural standpoint until you- underrepresented minority- started getting all "uppity" with the team. You need to be quiet and make this game. And we know these two solutions are always given the middle finger because whenever anyone tries, like Dina, we have to have this conversation, no matter how reasonable people like Dina were. 

 

You know how that comes across? It comes across as a manifestation of subconscious prejudice, plain and simple.

[Solkia]

Soooooooo. Has there been any gameplay videos of this game yet? 

 

It comes out in 2015. I'm betting the first trailer will be Q2 or Q3 2014.

[Solly]

Why is it a bad thing to merely express the wish for more minority representation in games? Why is it an "agenda" to say "Hey, it'd be nice if there was a black/female/gay character for freakin' once?" The framing as this wish as "shoving an agenda where it doesn't belong" comes across as dismissively privileged and short-sighted. 

 

Wait, when did I say it was a bad thing? Jesus, it feels like you're painting me to be some kind of sexist monster.

 

I don't know what you're taking away from my post, but it's not at all what I intended. On reflection, "pushing an agenda" is probably not the correct way to describe her actions, because it sounds more extreme than I originally considered, but I'd definitely say it's more than just "having an opinion." It was a request. Whatever you want to call it, focusing on the wording undermines my original point, which is that her views on feminism and Mighty No. 9 were not kept separate by her. Again, I agree with her views on sexism and don't see this to be an issue myself.

 

I am not calling her a social justice warrior. I'm not downplaying anything she has to say, and again, I'd like to see more minorities in games. I've never thought otherwise. It feels terrible to have that finger pointed at me like this, when all I was doing was trying to shed some light on why some people might have a hard time distancing her work from her views.

[Captain Fun]

Soooooooo. Has there been any gameplay videos of this game yet? 

There's this place holder thing with the unreal engine made in 7 days. However, it's been said that the final game will be 2.5D and this is just a concept. 

 

Real Talk: FemBeck with the real ass face is pretty terrifying. 

[Solkia]

I'm still kind of annoyed at the 2.5D crap. I wish they'd gone with hand drawn sprites.

[Nepenthe]

Wait, when did I say it was a bad thing? Jesus, it feels like you're painting me to be some kind of sexist monster.

 

I don't know what you're taking away from my post, but it's not at all what I intended. On reflection, "pushing an agenda" is probably not the correct way to describe her actions, because it sounds more extreme than I originally considered, but I'd definitely say it's more than just "having an opinion." It was a request. Whatever you want to call it, focusing on the wording undermines my original point, which is that her views on feminism and Mighty No. 9 were not kept separate by her. Again, I agree with her views on sexism and don't see this to be an issue myself.

 

I am not calling her a social justice warrior. I'm not downplaying anything she has to say, and again, I'd like to see more minorities in games. I've never thought otherwise. It feels terrible to have that finger pointed at me like this, when all I was doing was trying to shed some light on why some people might have a hard time distancing her work from her views.

 

First of all, I did not consider you a sexist monster; I considered the framing of her expressions of desire as something negative like "pushing an agenda" as quite problematic for the argument why, which I hope you read and empathized with beyond the initial quote. 

 

And frankly, I don't understand why we need to concern ourselves with what how her expressions fall on the spectrum. Whether or not she was "giving her opinion" or "pushing an agenda" seems to be a conversation of semantics masking the fact that people clearly have a problem with her either being a feminist or expressing feminist views, because if feminist views weren't problematic in the gaming community, the argument on what her opinion would classify as probably wouldn't even exist, especially considering she didn't do anything that was particularly radical by common sense standards. 

Essentially, what she said should bother nobody. The fact that it not only bothers people, but enough people to be considered "controversial," does nothing but speak volumes about the social quagmires present in the gaming community.

[MegasonicZX]

I'm still kind of annoyed at the 2.5D crap. I wish they'd gone with hand drawn sprites.

Eh, hand drawn would be nice but I don't mind 2.5 either, then again I don't think they ever officially confirmed that it wouldn't be hand drawn sprites.