Characters you don't want to return

[Jet Prower]

Make them information brokers, anti-heroic mercenaries, and all around trolls towards all factions involved?

 

That's off the top of my head. I think there are plenty of things you could do with the Rogues if you just think outside the box and adapt them.

 

That basically sounds like what Nack, Nik, Bean, and Bark are in the comics. Which works for them.

[Mr Useful]

On the topic of the Babylon rouges, am I the only person who can picture the 3 of them as a team in a sonic heroes game/heroes-esque game?

Edited September 20, 2013 by Dom

[DarkLight]

On the topic of the Babylon rouges, am I the only person who can picture the 3 of them as a team in a sonic heroes game/heroes-esque game?

 

Oh no, I've pictured it once before.

 

Though the image of Wave flapping her hands while Jet and Storm hang on to her from below is hilarious.

[Jet Prower]

On the topic of the Babylon rouges, am I the only person who can picture the 3 of them as a team in a sonic heroes game/heroes-esque game?

 

Not at all, since they are pretty much portrayed in the team format in the comics, so you aren't the only one at all.

[Tara]

On the topic of the Babylon rouges, am I the only person who can picture the 3 of them as a team in a sonic heroes game/heroes-esque game?

Considering they were meant to embody the "Speed," "Flight" and "Power" type characters in the Riders games, then no, you're not the only one.  They could easily fit into Sonic Heroes, now that I think of it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That basically sounds like what Nack, Nik, Bean, and Bark are in the comics. Which works for them.

This ain't Archie I'm talking about, so I have no idea why you included Nik, or mentioned Bean and Bark since they've not been relevant in the games. And Nack is a villainious mercenary, not an anti-heroic one.

That and it's not like they monopolize the role either.

[Neon The Hedgehog]

You're gonna question birds for being incapable of flight over the two tailed fox who shouldn't be capable of it in the first place, or the hedgehog that shouldn't be capable of running superfast, the echidna that can quake the ground by punching it, a hedgehog that can warp time and space, etc etc.?

                 Good point. Oy, I should have thought of that. Oh, well.

[Uraraka]

Well, I don't like jet for one particular reason.... I can't stand his voice! Wave and Storm at least have normal sounding voices...but jet's voice makes him sound more like a bird! I mean, Tails doesn't have a doggy voice, and Sonic doesn't have a little squeaky hedgehog voice! I mean, I Know he is a bird... I just can't get over his bird brained voice .

[Neon The Hedgehog]

Well, I don't like jet for one particular reason.... I can't stand his voice! Wave and Storm at least have normal sounding voices...but jet's voice makes him sound more like a bird! I mean, Tails doesn't have a doggy voice, and Sonic doesn't have a little squeaky hedgehog voice! I mean, I Know he is a bird... I just can't get over his bird brained voice .

             Yeah, its a bit grating. 

[Splash the Otter]

This ain't Archie I'm talking about, so I have no idea why you included Nik, or mentioned Bean and Bark since they've not been relevant in the games. And Nack is a villainious mercenary, not an anti-heroic one.

That and it's not like they monopolize the role either.

I'm pretty sure he meant that the role those characters have in the comics could work for the Rogues. Incidentally, why do you consider Fang a villain? Sonic Triple Trouble was the only game where he played any kind of antagonistic role, and even then he wasn't much more than a nuisance.

[Tara]

I'm pretty sure he meant that the role those characters have in the comics could work for the Rogues. Incidentally, why do you consider Fang a villain? Sonic Triple Trouble was the only game where he played any kind of antagonistic role, and even then he wasn't much more than a nuisance.

Holding people at gunpoint and stealing their stuff doesn't exactly bring "heroism" to mind.

 

I always considered Fang along the lines of Team Rocket.  Even when they're not the primary antagonists, they're still criminal scum.  I would have loved to see Fang return with a similar sort of flair, but that's probably never going to happen.  Ever.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Akito

[Johnny Boy]

I'd personally rather the rogues stick to the Riders series, personally. I don't know, something about them appearing in any other game doesn't seem right to me. The whole extreme gear thing is their gimmick, and while I'm not particularly against seeing them in different scenarios, I simply can't picture it working out.

I'd love to see Wave in a scenario where she's humbled once she realizes that while she knows a lot more than Tails on extreme gear, Tails just hopelessly outclasses her in damn near everything else. Hell, I'd even love the main gang to knock the rogues down a few pegs by explaining to them all the times they saved the world in past games.

[Jet Prower]

This ain't Archie I'm talking about, so I have no idea why you included Nik, or mentioned Bean and Bark since they've not been relevant in the games. And Nack is a villainious mercenary, not an anti-heroic one.

That and it's not like they monopolize the role either.

 

I brought them up just because I thought it relevant to the conversation. There is no need to yet again pick at me. Yes, I know Nack is a villian, but the person was pointing out that they would fit well in a mercenary group and I was agreeing with that and giving some examples OK!

 

 

 

I'd love to see Wave in a scenario where she's humbled once she realizes that while she knows a lot more than Tails on extreme gear, Tails just hopelessly outclasses her in damn near everything else. Hell, I'd even love the main gang to knock the rogues down a few pegs by explaining to them all the times they saved the world in past games.

 

Yeah, I agree. I really wish Tails could have humbled her big time. When she pretty much laughs in his face like that, he should have shown her up somehow. I always wanted to see him give her what she deserved.

[The_Disney_Dork]

I love all the characters, honestly. I wish they'd have more main roles in the games now...specifically Rouge, Cream, Blaze, Silver and the Chaotix.

 

 

...Although, I wouldn't mind not seeing Shadow anymore...I mean, I like him and all but honestly, he should have never came back after SA2.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm pretty sure he meant that the role those characters have in the comics could work for the Rogues.

Well, I was talking about the games, considering we dont often mention the comics outside the Archie topic.

Incidentally, why do you consider Fang a villain? Sonic Triple Trouble was the only game where he played any kind of antagonistic role, and even then he wasn't much more than a nuisance.

The fact that we worked as villain in an antagonistic role, making no attempt to side with the Heroes is a main factor why I consider him a villain, from what we know of his inclusion. Unless you know of some heroic feats he's done for the right cause instead of that simply benefits him.

I brought them up just because I thought it relevant to the conversation. There is no need to yet again pick at me. Yes, I know Nack is a villian, but the person was pointing out that they would fit well in a mercenary group and I was agreeing with that and giving some examples OK!

Okay, this is getting annoying with you treating me like a bully, so let's get one thing straight: I'm NOT picking on you.

I'm doing a little thing called discussing and critiquing; when you mention something I talk about it and/or show you the problems and flaws of what you're talking about. This kind of thing is the norm here, and you're not gonna have an easy time here if you treat every critique as a personal attack on you.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Tara]

I'd love to see Wave in a scenario where she's humbled once she realizes that while she knows a lot more than Tails on extreme gear, Tails just hopelessly outclasses her in damn near everything else. Hell, I'd even love the main gang to knock the rogues down a few pegs by explaining to them all the times they saved the world in past games.

I like the idea of her coming back humbled, but I don't like the idea of her being humbled as a result of being shown to be drastically inferior to another character.  That just sort of comes across as pandering and stroking the ego of one's favorite character.  Rather, I'd prefer her be humbled as a result of an experience where she sees Tails' capabilities first hand as well as his potential, which motivates her to work with him instead of against him.  I'm not sure if that makes sense.  Basically instead of, "HA!  BEAT YO ASS, BITCH!"  I'd rather have, "We are both talented in our fields, but that's irrelevant because we work best as a team."  Not to say competition and conflict isn't encouraged, but having a character be shown up to the point where they must confess their overall weakness is just an overall terrible concept for a narrative.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Akito

[Jet Prower]

Okay, this is getting annoying with you treating me like a bully, so let's get one thing straight: I'm NOT picking on you.

I'm doing a little thing called discussing and critiquing; when you mention something I talk about it and/or show you the problems and flaws of what you're talking about. This kind of thing is the norm here, and you're not gonna have an easy time here if you treat every critique as a personal attack on you.

 

When it seems like you have nothing good to say ever, can you blame me? Always trying to tell someone they are wrong and never try and help them see what is wrong with what they say but to say it in a bit of a snaky way, can you really blame me? I don't like confrontation at all. I'm here to enjoy sonic and the topic of it overall. I just want to get along.

 

 

I like the idea of her coming back humbled, but I don't like the idea of her being humbled as a result of being shown to be drastically inferior to another character.  That just sort of comes across as pandering and stroking the ego of one's favorite character.  Rather, I'd prefer her be humbled as a result of an experience where she sees Tails' capabilities first hand as well as his potential, which motivates her to work with him instead of against him.  I'm not sure if that makes sense.  Basically instead of, "HA!  BEAT YO ASS, BITCH!"  I'd rather have, "We are both talented in our fields, but that's irrelevant because we work best as a team."  Not to say competition and conflict isn't encouraged, but having a character be shown up to the point where they must confess their overall weakness is just an overall terrible concept for a narrative.

 

Do you really see Wave just being humbled by something simple though? She seems more like the kind of girl that would need something harsh to hit her than to just go, oh, well we work alot better together. Her cockiness seems more like it needs a bit of a kick in the pants to get her attention to where it breaks that ego down to where THEN she would possibly see the more nice features of some of the good characters.

[Tara]

Do you really see Wave just being humbled by something simple though? She seems more like the kind of girl that would need something harsh to hit her than to just go, oh, well we work alot better together. Her cockiness seems more like it needs a bit of a kick in the pants to get her attention to where it breaks that ego down to where THEN she would possibly see the more nice features of some of the good characters.

Where in that post did I say that the experience the two would have to through her would be a "simple" one?  There are many different ways, both on a small and large scale, that you could have her see the strengths and weaknesses of both Tails and herself, and none of them have to include Wave getting shown up in such a way.

[Kuzu]

I just kinda prefer Wave being so full of herself to ever consider that someone might be better than her in technology, least of all, a kid like Tails. That way, she can comically try to prove herself and fail miserably. Hell, that's the thing about the Rogues, they think they're better than they actually are; I find that refreshing in cast that are as good as they think they are.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[Jet Prower]

Where in that post did I say that the experience the two would have to through her would be a "simple" one?  There are many different ways, both on a small and large scale, that you could have her see the strengths and weaknesses of both Tails and herself, and none of them have to include Wave getting shown up in such a way.

 

Well it  sounded like you were saying it was slightly simple by saying she would experience something that would humble her. Maybe it just wasn't clear enough. But yes, I do think she should experience something that should humble her, but it would have to be something big to where it almost does feel like it is showing her up. She does have a big ego after all, and unless that is burst, she isn't likely to see anything else.

[Tara]

Well it  sounded like you were saying it was slightly simple by saying she would experience something that would humble her. Maybe it just wasn't clear enough. But yes, I do think she should experience something that should humble her, but it would have to be something big to where it almost does feel like it is showing her up. She does have a big ego after all, and unless that is burst, she isn't likely to see anything else.

True enough, but it doesn't have to be so blatant as Tails just totally annihilating her in a race or something.  If that had any sort of effect on her character, I tend to think it would probably just make her angry and coerce her to overwork herself in a vain of hope of beating him.

 

Which would still be better character development than what we currently have, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. XP

Edited September 21, 2013 by Akito

[Splash the Otter]

The fact that we worked as villain in an antagonistic role, making no attempt to side with the Heroes is a main factor why I consider him a villain, from what we know of his inclusion. Unless you know of some heroic feats he's done for the right cause instead of that simply benefits him.

He was one of the protagonists in Sonic the Fighters, if that helps. And I never said anything about Fang being a hero. All I said was that I don't see him as a villain. In my opinion, Fang is a neutral character.

[Jet Prower]

True enough, but it doesn't have to be so blatant as Tails just totally annihilating her in a race or something.  If that had any sort of effect on her character, I tend to think it would probably just make her angry and coerce her to overwork herself in a vain of hope of beating him.

 

Which would still be better character development than what we currently have, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. XP

 

Exactly! That's sort of what I was trying to get at. Yes, her failing is going to get her mad and likely very mad to where she keeps trying and trying to where it eventually frustrates her so much that it breaks that ego to where she can then finally see the light in some way. The haha part, yeah you guys are right is just me as the Tails fan wanting to see him crush her, but for better character development, the long string of failures to him that eventuallybreaks her into being more understanding is a better way to go about it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

He was one of the protagonists in Sonic the Fighters, if that helps. And I never said anything about Fang being a hero. All I said was that I don't see him as a villain. In my opinion, Fang is a neutral character.

"Protagonist" doesn't mean "Hero," it means "one who plays the first part" of a story; a Protagonist can just as easily be a villain while the antagonist can be a hero, like Zim (protagonist) and Dib (antagonist) of the Invader Zim series or Light Yagami (protagonist) and L (antagonist) in Death Note.

When it seems like you have nothing good to say ever, can you blame me? 

Yes, because I don't often say something bad. I might say something you might not like to hear, but that's just honesty from me, not an attack.

 

 

 

Always trying to tell someone they are wrong and never try and help them see what is wrong with what they say but to say it in a bit of a snaky way, can you really blame me?

Yes, because every time I tell someone they're wrong about something I point out exactly why and what it is I think they're wrong about. I might even be wrong myself and get the wrong idea. You can ask every other member here on that front about me.

 

 

 

I don't like confrontation at all. I'm here to enjoy sonic and the topic of it overall. I just want to get along.

Well see, thing is, most people here are also here to enjoy Sonic as well. We'd also like to get along here, but that doesn't mean all of us will be soft about something we feel is off. Some of us can be nice and easy going, some are a bit harsher, but just because someone is confrontational about something doesn't always mean they're mean-spirited.

 

I may not be the nicest member here, but I can get along with someone, yet still disagree and confront them over something with no hard feelings over it.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Splash the Otter]

"Protagonist" doesn't mean "Hero," it means "one who plays the first part" of a story; a Protagonist can just as easily be a villain while the antagonist can be a hero, like Zim (protagonist) and Dib (antagonist) of the Invader Zim series or Light Yagami (protagonist) and L (antagonist) in Death Note.

But in Sonic the Fighters all 8 protagonists were either heroes or neutral, so your argument doesn't hold any water. My point is that you can't just divide the cast into "heroes" and "villains" like it's some kind of binary system. Characters like Jet, Fang, and Rouge are best classified as neutral, since they don't really belong to either group.