Sonic Lost World Announced

[Scar]

*Ahem*, it sorta does have something to do with the art style, considering how the sky, lighting and shading is handled in that one screen shot is what you're discussing, correct? I personally do see it as a bit more than an "orange sky box"; if you look closely, you can see the orange light of the sky is hitting and reflecting off of Sonic and the environment, though due to the simplified nature of the art style, it might be harder to notice.

The light is reflecting off Sonic yes, but not the foreground. The bit of level he's running on looks completely unaffected by the ambient lighting, which is strange. That isn't the biggest problem though. No, that would be the fact that shadows indicate an overhead light source (or one that is slightly "behind" the camera), but the sun is in the background, pointing directly at us.

Just look at the shadows and where the sun is. It doesn't match up or make sense. Why isn't everything on Sonic's right (i.e the part of the level which is closest to us) in shadow? Why do the vines cast a shadow on the dirt, when the sun is on the other side? Why isn't the side of the tree that is facing us, not in shadow, why does it look like its being lit directly from above; when the sun is behind, not above it?

I don't know if I'm better at picking these things up or not, but it looks really cheap and lazy to me. Its not even something that would severely hamper peformance. The Global Illumination can not be present and it won't make much of a difference, but at least get the basic lighting correct...

And another thing. Our complaints about the lighting doesn't have a whole lot to do with the art style. Even cartoony or fully cell-shaded visuals can have good lighting and it only enhances the visuals. I mean take a look at Journey for goodness' sake! That game has an even more simplistic, almost cell-shaded art direction, yet it also has stunning lighting that creates atmosphere.

Now that is a sunset, and it doesn't come at a cost to the fundamental artistic direction of the game

Edited September 3, 2013 by Scar

[SilentDoom]

Now that is a sunset, and it doesn't come at a cost to the fundamental artistic direction of the game

 

Whilst I don't disagree with the notion that the lighting in the Lost World screenshot is off and doesn't really properly express an ambient sunset, the picture you posted is no better.  That is not a sunset.  A sunset doesn't cause everything to become a bleeding shade of orange and if anything it detracts from the overall beauty and detail of the rest of the scene.  Not to mention because of crazy bright that shot is, various elements of the scene don't silhouette well at all.  Honestly the Generations sunset comparison ArtFenix bought up before was a much better one.  The ambient lighting is definitely there and it gives the feel of sunset, but it's not so obnoxiously in your face as it is here.

[Scar]

Whilst I don't disagree with the notion that the lighting in the Lost World screenshot is off and doesn't really properly express an ambient sunset, the picture you posted is no better.  That is not a sunset.  A sunset doesn't cause everything to become a bleeding shade of orange and if anything it detracts from the overall beauty and detail of the rest of the scene.  Not to mention because of crazy bright that shot is, various elements of the scene don't silhouette well at all.  Honestly the Generations sunset comparison ArtFenix bought up before was a much better one.  The ambient lighting is definitely there and it gives the feel of sunset, but it's not so obnoxiously in your face as it is here.

 

You're right that it doesn't need to be as heavy-handed as in Journey. But that's not the point. That screenshot could have looked a hell of a lot better if the lighting was improved. Basic things, like shadows being cast in a way that makes sense, maybe a couple of "God-Rays" coming from the tree, with the sun poking out from behind it...Right now, it looks pretty cheap to me.

[ArtFenix]

Right now, it looks pretty cheap to me.

Please don't be mad at me, cause it's just my personal thoughts and assumptions but to me it looks like they're trying to invest as little as possible on this game or should I say to spend as little as they can to make this game. It can still be good, great even but it just looks like they're keeping the money in the wallet this time, which is absolutely understandable seeing how shaky the Wii U position on the market is.

Explains lots of Mario influences as well - most of those who bought a Wii U so far are Nintento fans. Also explains why Frozen Factory kinda looks like recolored Windy Hill.

 

That or they're trying new grounds to see how well it will be received and don't want the 06 history to repeat.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Narukami07]

Colors would have probably been the most beautiful Sonic game had it come out on xbox360/ps3/pc instead of the Wii.

It looked beautiful to me even if it was in Wii.

[ArtFenix]

It looked beautiful to me even if it was in Wii.

Sure it did). But not even close to what it could have looked like had it been on HD consoles and using the hedgehog engine and models instead of sprites.

[Bouldergeist]

Please don't be mad at me, cause it's just my personal thoughts and assumptions but to me it looks like they're trying to invest as little as possible on this game or should I say to spend as little as they can to make this game. It can still be good, great even but it just looks like they're keeping the money in the wallet this time, which is absolutely understandable seeing how shaky the Wii U position on the market is.

Explains lots of Mario influences as well - most of those who bought a Wii U so far are Nintento fans. Also explains why Frozen Factory kinda looks like recolored Windy Hill.

 

That or they're trying new grounds to see how well it will be received and don't want the 06 history to repeat.

We all don't want the sonic 06 history to repeat itself

[WhoWhatMan]

Really guys? Are we really gonna have a 2 pages full of people complaining about the art style and trying to prove them wrong? I don't give a shit about the Art style, or the Lighting, Like yea, it look odd, but are you gonna notice it while playing it? No. Does it affect the gameplay in any shape and form? No.

 

I'm sorry if I'm backseating or anything, but this have gotten really silly.

Edited September 3, 2013 by KaBlamJamDan

[Straw Hat]

Really guys? Are we really gonna have a 2 pages full of people complaining about the art style and trying to prove them wrong? I don't give a shit about the Art style, or the Lighting, Like yea, it look odd, but are you gonna notice it while playing it? No. Does it affect the gameplay in any shape and form? No.

 

I'm sorry if I'm backseating or anything, but this have gotten really silly.

You say this like you didn't expect it...

[Place]

I think we're the only fanbase of a video game franchise that would rather discuss the aesthetic gradient of the fucking sky as opposed to anything else that has to do with the actual game.

[Scar]

Really guys? Are we really gonna have a 2 pages full of people complaining about the art style and trying to prove them wrong? I don't give a shit about the Art style, or the Lighting, Like yea, it look odd, but are you gonna notice it while playing it? No. Does it affect the gameplay in any shape and form? No.

 

I'm sorry if I'm backseating or anything, but this have gotten really silly.

 

What's the point of a forum, if we can't discuss anything?

And lighting and visuals may not be important to you, but it is to me and apparently, a lot of other people. It may not affect gameplay, but its an integral part of the experience. We have every right to "complain" about it.

 

 

I think we're the only fanbase of a video game franchise that would rather discuss the aesthetic gradient of the fucking sky as opposed to anything else that has to do with the actual game.

 

No, were not.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Scar

[ArtFenix]

Like yea, it look odd, but are you gonna notice it while playing it? No. Does it affect the gameplay in any shape and form? No.

Nothing ever affects the gameplay so let's make the 8 bit games again or better go play some tetris because that was true gameplay experience.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I think we're the only fanbase of a video game franchise that would rather discuss the aesthetic gradient of the fucking sky as opposed to anything else that has to do with the actual game.

Well this is a stupid comment

 

We're not discussing the gameplay

 

We're discussing the art

 

Please tell me what's wrong with discussing the art. Art exists to be looked at, if it's completely irrelevant to the game then why bother giving it pretty art or nice music

 

Let's ban all discussion on music and art and story and other such trivial things because they do not affect the gaeplay

[Milo]

Excuse me sirs and madams, I do not mean to interrupt, but I think a lot of the recent posts I've seen here are (once again) needless overreactions to differing opinions.

 

ArtFenix and co. either outright dislike Windy Hill's sunset sky or think more effort could had put into it. Others disagree and think it's a good effort in it's own right. Bam. The end.

 

Just for the sake of variety in this thread, might we talk about a different aspect of the game?

 

How about the water in the foreground of the aforementioned Windy Hill sunset screenshot? Do you guys think anything substantial might be done with it for any of the Windy Hill levels aside from waterfall scenery?

[Place]

Nothing ever affects the gameplay so let's make the 8 bit games again or better go play some tetris because that was true gameplay experience.

There! Now it's ART!

Edited September 3, 2013 by Place

[WhoWhatMan]

Nothing ever affects the gameplay so let's make the 8 bit games again or better go play some tetris because that was true gameplay experience.

 

 

You really like egging people on huh?

 

 

How about the water in the foreground of the aforementioned Windy Hill sunset screenshot? Do you guys think anything substantial might be done with it for any of the Windy Hill levels aside from waterfall scenery?

 

Well, I would like it if you can enter it, Like in the level, there is a cannon that is hidden, and if you found it, it launches you to the next one and the next one until the last cannon shoot you in the water fall.

[SilentDoom]

You're right that it doesn't need to be as heavy-handed as in Journey. But that's not the point. That screenshot could have looked a hell of a lot better if the lighting was improved. Basic things, like shadows being cast in a way that makes sense, maybe a couple of "God-Rays" coming from the tree, with the sun poking out from behind it...Right now, it looks pretty cheap to me.

 

I know, and as I stated at the start of my comment I agree.  I was merely criticising the example used.  

[ArtFenix]

You really like egging people on huh?

Something many people are fine with when it comes to me and my negative reaction towards SLoW even if it's justified and has some points (a couple of pics above just prove how far some go to miss the point and make fun of my posts). Yet when I do the same, you feel like you must point out how rude of a person I am. How hypocritical!

Oh yeah, and I find it hypocritical that I usually get no likes even though other people do when they make the same points.

Nah.. It doesn't matter that much anyway.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ArtFenix

[WhoWhatMan]

Something many people are fine with when it comes to me and my negative reaction towards SLoW even if it's justified and has some points (a couple of pics above just prove that). Yet when I do the same, you feel like you must point out how rude of a person I am. How hypocritical!

Oh yeah, and I find it hypocritical that I usually get no likes even though other people do when they make the same points.

Nah.. It doesn't matter that much anyway.

 

Can we not start arguing about this in here? 

[ArtFenix]

Can we not start arguing about this in here? 

Yeah, let's not. (not that I was gonna start that) It's very late already. I will go to bed. Good night guys.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Diogenes]

I've been nursing a low-grade headache for most of the day, so I'm not eager to jump back into this discussion, but I just wanna...clarify my thoughts, I guess.

For a series like Sonic, that's meant to be cartoony, stylized, and abstract, I honestly could not give less of a fuck about the lighting as long as the game looks at least reasonably appealing and it doesn't interfere with gameplay. I don't care about shadows, I don't care about reflections, I don't care about the subtle green tint that the light reflected from the grass gives to his taint. I don't need any of this to get invested in a game, because I've already crossed bigger hurdles by accepting talking blue hedgehogs. I don't need any of this to enjoy the graphics, because the game isn't making any claims of realism that would require such details in the first place. Were this a different series, one that did try to portray a reasonable approximation of a real-life world, then I might care. But in Sonic, it means nothing to me.

I think I'm going to try to stay out of graphics discussions from now on. I don't get anything worthwhile out of them anyway.

[Scar]

Excuse me sirs and madams, I do not mean to interrupt, but I think a lot of the recent posts I've seen here are (once again) needless overreactions to differing opinions.

 

ArtFenix and co. either outright dislike Windy Hill's sunset sky or think more effort could had put into it. Others disagree and think it's a good effort in it's own right. Bam. The end.

 

Just for the sake of variety in this thread, might we talk about a different aspect of the game?

 

How about the water in the foreground of the aforementioned Windy Hill sunset screenshot? Do you guys think anything substantial might be done with it for any of the Windy Hill levels aside from waterfall scenery?

 

Don't think the water in Windy Hill will amount to much other than pure eyecandy. I'd love to be proven wrong. Isn't there a dedicated water level in this game, anyway? 

 

@Dio

This is where you and I disagree. Though the art-style and such is widely subjective (stylised vs cartoony vs fantasy vs realistic et al), I think lighting is hugely important in generating atmosphere and creating a mood (alongside the music of course). Of course we haven't had a Sonic game with a story involved enough for these things to matter a huge amount, but I still think its important.

Its not even about advanced shading and GI (though they help immensely), better lighting in many situations can help describe stages and their tropes a little better. Its basically the next step beyond the colour palette and we all know how important that is in this franchise.

[Space☆Tomoki]

Woah, guys let's just cool our jets. Both sides bring up valid arguments. Personally, I love both art styles and I view this new visual style and lighting as another one of Sonic Team's crazy experiments in an attempt to try something new while taking advantage of the console's hardware. Personally, I'm hoping for a nice balance between the 2 styles when the inevitable PS4/XB1/PC main series game is released an about 2 years or so. With more powerful tech, I'm sure they can take the Lost World art style and add more detailed textures, advanced lighting effects such as improved global illumination like Unleashed and "God Rays" like in S4E2, motion blur and all that good stuff. Not to mention higher poly models. It's all just a "wait and see" type of deal. Maybe we can tell Iizuka about it during the next Sonic Boom/Summer of Sonic and hopefully they'll listen.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Tomoki

[Narukami07]

There! Now it's ART!

I'm sorry but i lost it when i looked at your avatar. XD

Edited September 3, 2013 by Narukami07

[Komodin]

Um... can I just say that I actually quite like both Generations and Lost World's art directions? Like, I see no need to make such a fuss over people's opinions on either title. After all, at the end of the day, it's all just that: opinions. 

Edited September 3, 2013 by Komodin