Metroid: Other M

[Saint Nathan]

I'm not sure what you personally think of Brawl's controls but I'm going to go ahead and use it as an example.

Ok, so the Classic Controller (besides rumble which doesn't even affect gameplay) and the Gamecube controller are perfect. The Wiimote is verging on unplayable. Add in the nunchuck and it still doesn't work well but at least it does work.

Now imagine that the Wiimote+Nunchuck was the only control scheme in the game. Again, not terrible but they could be so much better, and the way to do that would be CC and/or GC controls. Pretty obvious fix, right? And so knowing that, every moment I'm using the nunchuck (read: the entire game) I'm going to be reminded of how much easier and more fun the game could have been without such sub-par controls.

Obviously you don't look at it the same way, but the way I and probably the rest of us are looking at it, I don't exactly enjoy constantly having to keep in mind that the people who made my game were such stubborn babies that they'd rather have things their way than the right way.

Not the best example, mostly because I play with the Wiimote+Nunchuk but okay.

The bold is funny though. You're saying they're being stubborn about it, then follow up with "MY WAY IS RIGHT NOT YOURS NUUH"

The controls won't be helped by a different controller, but by the controls being fixed. It's not a matter of what you have plugged in, it's what the game is doing.

[Tornado]

The bold is funny though. You're saying they're being stubborn about it, then follow up with "MY WAY IS RIGHT NOT YOURS NUUH"

Everyone, including the dev team for the game, knows that the game is compromised by the control set up. Everyone, including the dev team for the game, knows how incredibly easy it would be to fix them. Pointing out that fact does not irony make.

The controls won't be helped by a different controller, but by the controls being fixed. It's not a matter of what you have plugged in, it's what the game is doing.

The problem is that the controls can't be fixed without the extra features that the nunchuk provides. They can be mitigated through the result of compromise, but that results in all of the "it plays itself at times" comments that the game has been getting.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Tornado

[Noir]

The bold is funny though. You're saying they're being stubborn about it, then follow up with "MY WAY IS RIGHT NOT YOURS NUUH"

Nope. They're being stubborn and choosing the flawed controls because they're too stubborn to admit that simple =/= better. I'm saying they should go with what was clearly better. And it's hardly up to opinion because the Nunchuck does everything the Wiimote is doing and more. Hell, they could support both methods and everyone's happy.

The controls won't be helped by a different controller, but by the controls being fixed. It's not a matter of what you have plugged in, it's what the game is doing.

As Tornado said, the Wiimote just doesn't have enough to fix it. You're still going to be using a D-pad (fine for the 2D sections, annoying in the 3D ones), still autoaiming, still having to take time to flip the remote around to face the screen. With the nunchuck you have an analog stick (which works well for anything), the remote always faces the screen, and they could even have implemented a system where you point the remote in a direction to aim in that general direction.

[Diogenes]

The controls won't be helped by a different controller, but by the controls being fixed. It's not a matter of what you have plugged in, it's what the game is doing.

...

No, what you have plugged in most definitely has an effect on the controls. That's why we're not playing everything with an NES controller. The implementation matters, of course, but the D-pad is always going to have problems that a control stick doesn't.

[Saint Nathan]

No, what you have plugged in most definitely has an effect on the controls. That's why we're not playing everything with an NES controller.

I thought that was because of more needed buttons and controllers made to fit the hand better.

[Diogenes]

That's only part of it. I mean, do you think they added control sticks, pressure sensitive buttons, and motion sensors just for shits and giggles? Hell no. Those things offer different sorts of input that can't reasonably be replicated by just a D-pad and buttons.

[Saint Nathan]

That's only part of it. I mean, do you think they added control sticks, pressure sensitive buttons, and motion sensors just for shits and giggles? Hell no. Those things offer different sorts of input that can't reasonably be replicated by just a D-pad and buttons.

But there's no reason for a control stick in Other M. Sure, it would allow better controls, but who says they would take that opportunity when the only directions you need to go are the basic D-Pad directions? Honestly, the only issue I can REALLY see with the D-Pad is the fact that you're going to be... going pell-mell running through the whole game. That's not much of an issue for me because that's what I'll be doing anyways.

[Noir]

But there's no reason for a control stick in Other M. Sure, it would allow better controls, but who says they would take that opportunity when the only directions you need to go are the basic D-Pad directions? Honestly, the only issue I can REALLY see with the D-Pad is the fact that you're going to be... going pell-mell running through the whole game. That's not much of an issue for me because that's what I'll be doing anyways.

But there's no reason for a control stick in Other M. Sure, it would allow better controls, but who says they would take that opportunity when the only directions you need to go are the basic D-Pad directions?

Sure, it would allow better controls, but who says they would take that opportunity when the only directions you need to go are the basic D-Pad directions?

it would allow better controls

Congratulations.

You answered your question.

[Saint Nathan]

Congratulations.

You answered your question.

That's great, so lets just change the game's coding to throw a nunchuk in here and

oh hey

it plays exactly the same

well would you look at that, it's not a magical fix

[Diogenes]

But there's no reason for a control stick in Other M. Sure, it would allow better controls,

Yes, that. That's the reason. That's the reason.

How the hell do you say there's no reason and then immediately say the reason and act like you have a argument.

but who says they would take that opportunity when the only directions you need to go are the basic D-Pad directions?

Because their job and their goal is to make the best game within the restraints that they have. Also you don't only need to go the basic D-pad directions. Also it opens up other ways to make the game better beyond the upgrade to analog control.

Honestly, the only issue I can REALLY see with the D-Pad is the fact that you're going to be... going pell-mell running through the whole game. That's not much of an issue for me because that's what I'll be doing anyways.

So, the old "I play one way so fuck anyone who plays different" argument. It's...not a very good one.

it plays exactly the same

If it plays exactly the same then the people who coded it should be fired because analog control is not the same as a D-pad.

Also do you have a split personality or something because you just said the control stick would allow better controls.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Diogenes

[Noir]

That's great, so lets just change the game's coding to throw a nunchuk in here and

oh hey

it plays exactly the same

well would you look at that, it's not a magical fix

Now you're being dumb because you don't want to accept that you could be wrong. We've already explained what differences it would make, hell, you just said yourself it would work better! In fact, it fixes each and every one of the flaws listed: D-pad is not particularly suited for the game, you aim automatically, and switching to first person is clumsy. If those are the complaints and the nunchuck fixes them, then whaddya know, it does make a big difference.

The point is, it doesn't matter if it works. That's fine. Except the nunchuck works better.

[Saint Nathan]

How the hell do you say there's no reason and then immediately say the reason and act like you have a argument.

Because just adding it in won't fix jack shit. In fact, I'll bet it may just only make things worse. They'd need to fix up most of the game for a different control scheme, just stabbing it in there won't do anything.

Also you don't only need to go the basic D-pad directions. Also it opens up other ways to make the game better beyond the upgrade to analog control.

Well, where is it in the game where basic D-pad control isn't the minimum needed? Because everything we've seen points to mostly straight or diagonal movement. The directions on a d-pad mostly.

So, the old "I play one way so fuck anyone who plays different" argument. It's...not a very good one.

I love how I actually put in the reason as to why I think the controls aren't ideal, then just say that I don't have a problem with it, and you take that as a "nuuuh fuck you" somehow.

If it plays exactly the same then the people who coded it should be fired because analog control is not the same as a D-pad.

You'll hate No More Heroes. Nunchuk? Check. D-pad like movement? Check. Sometimes wishing you could play this with the d-pad? Cheeeeccckk.

Also do you have a split personality or something because you just said the control stick would allow better controls.

Allow. Key word. Allow.

As in, it COULD make the controls better... if they coded the controls better. The nunchuk isn't magical, and it won't fix motion problems unless they fixed up the controls for it as well.

The D-pad could work. The D-pad is inherently fine for this kind of game. If there are major control issues, it will be the developer's faults for bad coding, not the d-pad. There's no saying that they couldn't do the same with the nunchuk.

[Noir]

You're settling for laziness and stupidity is what I think. Whatever, we're all going to enjoy the game to some extent anyway. It's still not a very good mindset because they shouldn't be able to give us the bare minimum for controls and go without criticizing for it.

I'm tired of arguing. If you want to shrug off that the developers made a stupid, naive mistake then go ahead. We obviously aren't convincing each other of anything.

[Saint Nathan]

You're settling for laziness and stupidity is what I think.

No, I'm just not going to bother thinking anything could be better just with the attachment of a peripheral.

[Diogenes]

Because just adding it in won't fix jack shit. In fact, I'll bet it may just only make things worse. They'd need to fix up most of the game for a different control scheme, just stabbing it in there won't do anything.

No shit, Sherlock. The point is, if they had realized early on (like, the second it was suggested, 'cause this really shouldn't have been a surprise) that insisting on Wiimote only controls wasn't doing them any favors, the time spent on the Wiimote only controls could've been used for Wiimote and nunchuck controls. Even if they somehow didn't realize until they had already implemented it, it's not as if it'd take some inordinate amount of time to change.

Well, where is it in the game where basic D-pad control isn't the minimum needed? Because everything we've seen points to mostly straight or diagonal movement. The directions on a d-pad mostly.

Anywhere with even the smallest amount of 3D movement.

I love how I actually put in the reason as to why I think the controls aren't ideal, then just say that I don't have a problem with it, and you take that as a "nuuuh fuck you" somehow.

Because all you've been doing is whining when people have legitimate complaints, and then you throw in a "well I don't have a problem with it!", as if that somehow means that we shouldn't. That you'll run everywhere like a screeching berserker doesn't mean we aren't allowed to want a little finesse.

You'll hate No More Heroes. Nunchuk? Check. D-pad like movement? Check. Sometimes wishing you could play this with the d-pad? Cheeeeccckk.

Played it, enjoyed it, it probably would've been worse with a D-pad.

[Doctor MK]

Just to move away from all the control debates for a moment, here's a relatively high quality shot of Zero Suit Samus' face from the ONM cover:

As you can see, it's pretty schmexy.

Photomajigged by yours truly.

[killemoff]

^ I heart Samus ^

You armored vixen you...

Edited August 8, 2010 by killemoff

[Saint Nathan]

Just to move away from all the control debates for a moment, here's a relatively high quality shot of Zero Suit Samus' face from the ONM cover:

As you can see, it's pretty schmexy.

Photomajigged by yours truly.

You know what's even more sexy?

This Other M poster Nintendo Power gave out.

It's a high-quality render of Samus in her suit, and on the back is a picture of Samus just blasting the fuck out of a baddie.

Best Nintendo Power poster ever, and I have them all over my room.

[Doctor MK]

You know what's even more sexy?

This Other M poster Nintendo Power gave out.

It's a high-quality render of Samus in her suit, and on the back is a picture of Samus just blasting the fuck out of a baddie.

Best Nintendo Power poster ever, and I have them all over my room.

Personally, I prefer the air Samus without her suit on

But on a serious note, that Nintendo Power poster sounds cool. There's some adverts and stuff with cool renders inside the latest ONM issue, I'm guessing it's the same images - if so, they're awesomesauce.

[Saint Nathan]

Personally, I prefer the air Samus without her suit on

Personally, I enjoy watching women look badass. It's sexy even with armor that almost hides the gender of the wearer.

But yeah they have that on there too. It's a side view of her upper body, so you don't see all of her face, but you get the boobs I know you would enjoy you sick, sick fuck.

[Doctor MK]

you sick, sick fuck

I know, I truly am a monster

[/hopefullysarcasm?]

[speedfreak]

Come on Justin Bailey mode!

[Saint Nathan]

*pic*

Come on Justin Bailey mode!

This is actually the same pose she's in on the poster. Just turned more to the right so she's facing forward, but her head is in the same direction.

[Marcello]

Has Zero Suit Samus always had those plateau shoes(Is that the right word?)?

[Saint Nathan]

Has Zero Suit Samus always had those plateau shoes(Is that the right word?)?

I think so yeah.