Metroid: Other M

[Saint Nathan]

I believe all I've said is that insisting on the Wiimote only is likely to cause some significant flaws (and apparently it has) that could easily be fixed by using the nunchuck.

Can I feel smug now?

No. You cannot.

Where does it say significant flaws in movement? It just says the controls are fine, not great, not bad, but just decent. In fact, most of the stuff MK posted were the first person problems, not much about the d-pad movement.

[Marcello]

especially since the only way to restore health is to stop at a save station or use a risky Crystal Flash-like recharge move when Samus's energy is critical.

What. No energy things?

[Diogenes]

No. You cannot.

Too bad, doin' it anyway.

Where does it say significant flaws in movement? It just says the controls are fine, not great, not bad, but just decent. In fact, most of the stuff MK posted were the first person problems, not much about the d-pad movement.

D-pad moving is fine for the most part but not perfect,

"Fine for the most part" is disappointing when there's a blatantly obvious solution. Choosing Wiimote only has caused the movement controls to be worse than they could have been.

the transition from third to first person can cost you valuable seconds in boss fights,

And this would be easily solved if they used the nunchuck, as the Wiimote would be pointed roughly at the screen most of the time anyway, and switching could be as fast and easy as pressing a button rather than having to juggle the remote.

And while I'm willing to call the "no moving in first person bit" a design choice rather than a limitation of the controls, if it wasn't (or if they decided to change it), the nunchuck would let them do it and Wiimote only wouldn't.

[Conando]

What. No energy things?

Metroid: Hard edition.

[Saint Nathan]

Too bad, doin' it anyway.

I'm going to your house, and killing you in the slowest way I can imagine.

It will involve STRATEGIC PAPERCUTS.

"Fine for the most part" is disappointing when there's a blatantly obvious solution. Choosing Wiimote only has caused the movement controls to be worse than they could have been.

I'm not sure how the control choice caused the controls to be less than perfect, it's more of a game thing, not the controller. Yeah, it gives a specific limit, but I doubt they would be much better if you could move in directions that would be useless in the game anyways.

Hell, No More Heroes has terrible, terrible movement. It could have actually been better WITH the D-Pad, because using the nunchuk just makes it weirder with the way Travis moves.

And this would be easily solved if they used the nunchuck, as the Wiimote would be pointed roughly at the screen most of the time anyway, and switching could be as fast and easy as pressing a button rather than having to juggle the remote.

I don't think it's the switching, like with the controls, I think it's the actual camera change. It seems slightly jarring. I can flip the remote in my had as easily and almost as quickly as I could press a button (obviously not just as quickly, but they both take less than a second.) and it's not hard. That, and there may be a small waiting time when you switch.

And while I'm willing to call the "no moving in first person bit" a design choice rather than a limitation of the controls, if it wasn't (or if they decided to change it), the nunchuck would let them do it and Wiimote only wouldn't.

I think they confirmed that you would stand still in first-person before the controls were mentioned, but I'm not sure, even though that doesn't count for much anyways. It's more than likely a design choice however, the guy in that review Patticus posted said they tried to make it not feel like Metroid Prime. If you could move in first person, why ever switch back? Kinda ruins the third person perspective.

[Diogenes]

I'm going to your house, and killing you in the slowest way I can imagine.

It will involve STRATEGIC PAPERCUTS.

Oh yeah? I'll take you on.

I'm not sure how the control choice caused the controls to be less than perfect

Because, given proper implementation, a control stick is always going to be better for a 3D environment than a D-pad. And in most cases it's just as good for 2D...there's a reason it's become the default, after all.

I don't think it's the switching,

There's no way that having to completely change the way you're holding the controller in the middle of a fairly fast-paced sequence is an insignificant factor. Even if it isn't the only factor, it'd still be better if you didn't have to.

That, and there may be a small waiting time when you switch.

There probably is, and it's only exacerbated by the game not knowing you're switching until you finish juggling the remote and point it at the screen.

I think they confirmed that you would stand still in first-person before the controls were mentioned,

Doesn't mean they decided it in that order, tho'.

If you could move in first person, why ever switch back?

Having other penalties while in first person? Maybe no jumping, no speed booster, (obviously) no morph ball, no melee combat, maybe you can only walk rather than run while in first person, maybe 3rd person is the default and you need to hold down a button to go into first? There's a dozen different reasons better than leaving you as a sitting duck.

[Jetronic]

You know guys.... for the whole "controlling samus with a d-pad IS NO GOOD! ON A 3D PLANE" issue.....

There's always something like this:

Being that Other M is Wiimote only.

You can get it here but it's out of stock =(

Edited August 6, 2010 by Jetronic

[Ekaje]

More previews!

Destructoid

*I played Other M for about a solid hour and can happily say that feeling of despair as you explore every inch of an environment is ever present.

*The controls are definitely... interesting. Not to say that it's bad -- far from it -- but it will take a bit to get used to...The part that takes getting used to is when you need to go into precision firing mode...Switching between the perspectives and aiming the gun takes a few seconds to get adjusted to, seconds you might not be able to spare when enemies are charging at you. Thankfully, you'll be able dodge an attack just before the enemy strikes in either perspective.

*You can recharge your health and missile tank whenever you want as opposed to restocking from the corpses of your enemies. By pointing the Wiimote up and pressing A, Samus will recharge her missiles to full and her health if it's dangerously low. Recharging takes a bit of time to perform and she won't recharge if attacked.

IGN

*Samus will be exploring areas that aren't restricted to the cold, metallic confines of the base that we've run through before.

*Beasts that are chameleon in nature: they'll go invisible before they go on the offensive, and you'll have to enter first-person mode to lock onto their energy signature.

*If you're in a room that has a hidden pick-up (missile, a piece of an energy tank or a full energy tank), you'll be alerted of its existence once you clear out the room of all enemies. A beacon "ping" can be heard, and it's up to you to find out where it's hiding.

*The game will be heavy on story, acted out in cutscenes that utilize the game's realtime engine. When you load a save file, you'll be given a summation of the story so far as the game loads, recapping everything you've seen and done up to that point.

*There was this strange and admittedly creepy chicken-like creature that leapt out of the shrubbery, stared with some very eerie jet black eyes, and wagged its tail in one of the more cryptic cutscenes in the game.

*It's hard to ignore a lot of the stiffness of the game's control. Wall jumping didn't feel as fluid and natural in this game, for example. And while I can appreciate the Wii pointer control for first-person mode, it feels awkward to jump in and jump out constantly.

*It also felt like the game plays itself a lot of the time due to its auto-targetting system. When you run into a room filled with enemies, you can simply point Samus in their direction and simply fire away and know that they'll be taken down by random blaster shots.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Ekaje

[Diogenes]

*It also felt like the game plays itself a lot of the time due to its auto-targetting system. When you run into a room filled with enemies, you can simply point Samus in their direction and simply fire away and know that they'll be taken down by random blaster shots.

Aw.

[Tornado]

You know guys.... for the whole "controlling samus with a d-pad IS NO GOOD! ON A 3D PLANE" issue.....

There's always something like this:

That would probably make the problems worse.

Also, basically what Diogenes has been saying in this thread. Obviously stupid design decisions don't cease to be obviously stupid design decisions just because you are able to mitigate (mostly through compromises) the consequences of them. Especially when the only reason you could possibly be sticking to them is because of how stubborn you are.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Tornado

[SuperStingray]

I'm with Tornado and Dio. Does anyone actually play Brawl with the Wii Remote? Some games just aren't built for that configuration. That's why Nintendo made the Nunchuck, the classic controller and allowed the GCN controller to work with Wii games. I don't care what Sakamoto intended with his decision, simpler =/= better. I remember Einstein once said that the goal of all theory is to make things as simple as possible, but no simpler. Having not played the game, I can't really judge how the controls will work out, but Sakamoto's design choice is the same philosophy that would lead to making a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA. Yes, I know it's not real.

Edited August 6, 2010 by SuperStingray

[Saint Nathan]

Does anyone actually play Brawl with the Wii Remote?

Hold on, is this possible? Doesn't Brawl need more than five buttons to be played decently?

[PSI Wind]

I've used the Wiimote on its side on Brawl. It's easy to use. I prefer the GC Controller like everyone else, but I like using a different control from time to time.

[Solid SOAP]

This honestly doesn't sound all that promising to me, the main issue being the d-pad movement. Had they made the controls fit for the nun-chuck and Wii-remote I'd be stoked, but I think I'm gonna check reviews before I play this. It sounds like a quality title, just not up to the issue quality Nintendo offers.

[Saint Nathan]

This honestly doesn't sound all that promising to me, the main issue being the d-pad movement. Had they made the controls fit for the nun-chuck and Wii-remote I'd be stoked, but I think I'm gonna check reviews before I play this. It sounds like a quality title, just not up to the issue quality Nintendo offers.

You do know that everyone who has played the game has not only loved it, they've compared it to SUPER METROID. That is like comparing a Sonic game to Sonic 3. It's good, the only issue that's been talked about at all is the control scheme.

Now, on a better topic, has anyone gotten the new Nintendo Power?

Because it has an Other M poster with it, and it is SUPER KICKASS.

[Noir]

The reviews in this thread essentially say that the controls "work" but no more. This wouldn't normally bother me, and I presume the same for the other complainers, but in this case it does. Why? Because it's absolutely inexcusable to use an obviously flawed control system when there is a vastly improved alternative right in front of your face. It's even worse when your excuse for doing it is stubbornness.

I don't think anyone is really saying the controls will ruin the game, but they are one of the most important aspects and considering they could have been so much better, it's very hard not to be annoyed by a shoddy system.

[Tornado]

Indeed. Regardless of whether the game turns out fantastic, I would always have an uneasy feeling when playing it of the needlessly wasted potential. Basically, "if this is how good it is now, imagine how good it could have been if they had pulled their heads out of their collective asses and done it right."

Edited August 7, 2010 by Tornado

[Saint Nathan]

Indeed. Regardless of whether the game turns out fantastic, I would always have an uneasy feeling when playing it of the needlessly wasted potential. Basically, "if this is how good it is now, imagine how good it could have been if they had pulled their heads out of their collective asses and done it right."

You do know this can be applied to every video game ever made. You're just getting all worked up over it now because it's all you can really complain about and it's silly.

[Diogenes]

No, it's because the solution is so obvious. It's not even "oh well I've played all the games a hundred times so I know what's what", this is something even an amateur should've seen coming from the start. And hey, we did...so why couldn't they?

[Conando]

It's Mario Galaxy 2 all over again.

[Noir]

You do know this can be applied to every video game ever made. You're just getting all worked up over it now because it's all you can really complain about and it's silly.

But it's not in every video game ever made that the flaws have such obvious solutions. And in games that also have obvious solutions for their problems, they do have wasted potential and tend to be average.

[Saint Nathan]

But it's not in every video game ever made that the flaws have such obvious solutions. And in games that also have obvious solutions for their problems, they do have wasted potential and tend to be average.

Galaxy 2 could have used more powerups and gimmicks in levels without making quite a few of them one-shot deals, and the game would have benefited greatly.

Oh hey would you look at that it's fucking awesome even with the obvious issues. It's great, it's brilliant, but it still has major and obvious flaws.

This isn't going to be average because it's been said multiple times that it's great, it's amazing, it's a damn good game. The only thing that makes it somewhat average is the controls, and those aren't bad, they're average.

It could be better, yes, there's no argument against that. But saying that the game is ruined, or that the entire thing is subpar because of controls that don't give you a blowjob? That's no good.

It's being made by Nintendo and Team Ninja. Neither have made a bad game from what I've played from either company. In fact, they make very fun and challenging games. There is no reason to doubt that this will be anything other than great, especially because the controls aren't up to god standards.

[Noir]

It could be better, yes, there's no argument against that. But saying that the game is ruined, or that the entire thing is subpar because of controls that don't give you a blowjob? That's no good.

So I see you don't actually pay much attention to my posts.

I don't think anyone is really saying the controls will ruin the game, but they are one of the most important aspects and considering they could have been so much better, it's very hard not to be annoyed by a shoddy system.

[Saint Nathan]

So I see you don't actually pay much attention to my posts.

I was more over dramatizing that and I didn't aim it at anyone, I did read what you said. I just think it's silly all the same. I'm not sure how you get annoyed by average controls. I'm not sure how you would be annoyed by anything other than bad controls. It makes no sense.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Nathan Farnsworth

[Noir]

I'm not sure what you personally think of Brawl's controls but I'm going to go ahead and use it as an example.

Ok, so the Classic Controller (besides rumble which doesn't even affect gameplay) and the Gamecube controller are perfect. The Wiimote is verging on unplayable. Add in the nunchuck and it still doesn't work well but at least it does work.

Now imagine that the Wiimote+Nunchuck was the only control scheme in the game. Again, not terrible but they could be so much better, and the way to do that would be CC and/or GC controls. Pretty obvious fix, right? And so knowing that, every moment I'm using the nunchuck (read: the entire game) I'm going to be reminded of how much easier and more fun the game could have been without such sub-par controls.

Obviously you don't look at it the same way, but the way I and probably the rest of us are looking at it, I don't exactly enjoy constantly having to keep in mind that the people who made my game were such stubborn babies that they'd rather have things their way than the right way.