Rebooting the Franchise: Good or Bad?

[Nepenthe]

Which is exactly not what I'm proposing.

Then what are you proposing? Because when you cite the differences between Green Hill and Metal City as being an issue, then yes, decreasing the aesthetic breadth of the series is inevitably the image I conjure up, and it's an image I find more bland and boring than what we currently have.

Okay. But I'd still rather start over and build up a history worth referencing, rather than "remember the time the genies were also aliens?"

Well, I certainly hope that they don't go around referencing false notions from an arguably non-canon spin-off series either when they have factual encounters and events from more relevant games to choose from.

Start over. Reintroduce the characters over the course of several games, but better written. Same broad strokes, better details. More complex personalities, more focused desires and problems. Situations similar to how they were originally introduced, but better written. Build up mysteries surrounding the important elements of the series, like the emeralds. Give Sonic some character flaws. Actually give Shadow some connection to Sonic, rather than just randomly being near-identical. Make Metal Sonic worth caring about. Plan ahead for once.

See, that's the thing: I don't like the "start over part" as in throwing out every single thing we've come to know about the series over twenty years when I see absolutely none of what you've just said as either unsolvable without rebooting or even appealing in the first place, such as giving Shadow some important connection to Sonic beyond "male hedgehogs share physical similarities because biology."

In other words, we're going to keep agreeing to disagree and I see this going nowhere productive beyond this point.

[Scar]

I really don't see the point of a reboot.

Just do what Nepenthe is suggesting, referencing only worthwhile material and completely ignoring all the stupid shit from the past 15 years (for example, never reference Shadow's backstory butchering in his own game).

You don't have to start again to make the current cast more complex, you just need to start writing a story that is complex enough that it enables worthwhile exploration of character traits, desires, problems etc. Characters would need to stop being instruments of the plot (i.e Sonic in 06 was a plot-device more than he was an actual character).

[Salamander]

But you can't reintroduce a character.

Reintroduce the characters over the course of several games, but better written.

You're ignoring your own advice here. I know that your point, implicitly, was that reintroduction is only possible in a reboot - but I disagree. All you're doing, again, is wiping away all the internal evidence. Reboot the series and reintroduce the characters all you want, but the external opinions, reviews, likely even the game's promotion will rely on direct reference to the original canon. Reintroduce Silver with different origins and better writing, and everywhere that mentions him will still refer to his original status as a whiny recolour from a terrible game, and their affection for him and their interest in seeing him rebooted will directly stem from that original opinion. This is the very reason why reboots don't work - they are, in fact, built on interest in the original canon. Why bring back Amy if people didn't care about her anyway? Why bring back Knuckles if nobody's interested? The appeal of a reboot, paradoxically, exists solely in people caring about the elements of the original canon, and being interested in what new can be done with them (which doesn't require a reboot anyway). That is why a Sonic reboot will not work; even in a best-case scenario where the rebooted universe itself is wonderful, outside opinion will not reboot with it. People won't stop hating the Babylon Rogues because they're no longer genie aliens.

What reboots are for - when they're not simple publicity gimmicks or to convenience a new developer - is to wipe away continuity convolutions. Quite frankly, Sonic doesn't have these. It's a soft-continuity franchise where they can preserve and ignore whatever they like, and indeed have - pre-Heroes Chaotix, for example, or Blaze being from the future - because story's never been of over-riding continuous importance. What matters are the characters, and pretending that Cream's never appeared in a game before won't stop people approaching her with a particular attitude. A reboot is also a creation of continuity and relation to previous installments, and reviewers will approach a reboot quite rightly with the history of that series in mind.

In actual fact, rebooting would fail as it would draw attention to the reboot's flaws as well as the original's flaws. If people find one problem or one thing worth nitpicking, they'll declare that Sonic hasn't really changed, and so the only result would be to throw away everything people ever liked while retaining that legacy of failure. And if the reboot were some magical perfect fantasy game which I'm baffled to see people proposing, comparison to the original would keep the original's flaws alive even if Shadow never touched a gun.

Better writing doesn't need a reboot. And in any case they'd mess up the reboot eventually anyway and we'd be in exactly the same position, with nothing gained except a huge waste of time.

[Chaos Warp]

I believe I suggested this before, but a story arc that's kinda a partial reboot that cleans up plotholes but doesn't get rid of the whole thing would be cool. This could also be a chance to have a more consistent and solidified universe.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Multikaris]

My turn:

* Redesigns, more major than Dreamcast --> Modern.

* Remake Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, S&K, CD, and possibly Triple Trouble, Spinball, Tails Adventures, and Chaotix as one game. It will be full 3D.

* Reintroduce Blaze later.

* I dont know what to do with the rest of the cast beyond the mains, scrapped chars, Blaze, and maybe Orbot, Cubot, and Rouge.

[Jack / Joker]

*sigh*

But in my humblest of humble opinions, reboot or GTFO. A universe where there aren't 9000 gods of destruction, Sonic '06 and Shadow happening, and so many other things is a good universe in my book.

Knuckles can be reintroduced with a less convoluted backstory, and maybe we can focus more on his so-called rivalry with Sonic that they don't utilize yet claim exists. Amy can be made into less of a stalker, Shadow can be fixed (a MAMMOTH task but hey), so much potential. Also, we can *maybe* leave certain characters who don't really have potential behind.

The world can be recreated, with a definite name and design, rather than the current "Sonic's World", a place where Kingdom Valley and Music Plant co-exist somehow...

Also, we can finally kill off Sonic and have the great and glorious Eggman become the main character!

[Diogenes]

Knuckles can be reintroduced with a less convoluted backstory

What's convoluted about Knuckles' backstory?

[Jack / Joker]

What's convoluted about Knuckles' backstory?

Hmmm... supposing Chronicles really was it's own piece of shit rather than part of the main series, the only thing convoluted about it is how much we're told having so little to do with what we need to know. Where are his parents? Why did he take it upon himself to guard a rock he knows fairly little about? We don't know, but there's a God of Destruction thrown in there somewhere!

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gordon the Big Engine

[Pawn]

Shadow can be fixed (a MAMMOTH task but hey)

Why would this be a mammoth task if the series was rebooted? He could be reintroduced in any way (i.e. without Black Arms).

[Soniman]

Still think reeboting is a terrible idea and always will be.

[Kuzu]

Hmmm... supposing Chronicles really was it's own piece of shit rather than part of the main series, the only thing convoluted about it is how much we're told having so little to do with what we need to know. Where are his parents? Why did he take it upon himself to guard a rock he knows fairly little about? We don't know, but there's a God of Destruction thrown in there somewhere!

That was kind of the point of his story arc in Sonic Adventure, he doesn't know the details, but he knows it's a job that needs to be done and that he's the only one that can do it. If anything, I'd probably just emphasize the importance of his role more instead of just using it as both a running gag or as an excuse to explain why Knuckles never bothers showing up.

Still think reeboting is a terrible idea and always will be.

You've already said this a million times so..........the point was?

[Diogenes]

Hmmm... supposing Chronicles really was it's own piece of shit rather than part of the main series, the only thing convoluted about it is how much we're told having so little to do with what we need to know. Where are his parents? Why did he take it upon himself to guard a rock he knows fairly little about? We don't know, but there's a God of Destruction thrown in there somewhere!

We don't know anyone's parents, aside from Cream's mom (and arguably Shadow's); that's like, the least relevant thing ever. As for guarding the emerald, it's presumably a duty passed down by his ancestors.

[Soniman]

About as much point as you calling me out just for reafirming my views on the subject.

*shrug*

[Komodin]

Frankly, I still can't see the benefits of rebooting the series wholesale would bring in lieu of just writing more substantial stories and actually allowing some character development to occur...

[Kuzu]

Frankly, I still can't see the benefits of rebooting the series wholesale would bring in lieu of just writing more substantial stories and actually allowing some character development to occur...

I think it's more of an inconsistency thing; we've had character development, then they were derailed/flanderized, and then having more development again, at least that's my take on it. I don't see a reboot anymore unnecessary than doing what you just said so, it really doesn't matter, at most we'd be throwing out a pretty convoluted canon.

[Jack / Joker]

Frankly, I still can't see the benefits of rebooting the series wholesale would bring in lieu of just writing more substantial stories and actually allowing some character development to occur...

And that's... not... beneficial?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gordon the Big Engine

[Chaos Warp]

And that's... not... beneficial?

It can happen without a reboot.

[Blackthorne]

At this point, the whole storyline's so fucked up that nobody knows what's canon and what isn't. I really don't see what they have to lose by rebooting. It can be done without totally contradicting the pieces of the storyline that should stay, and that's how it should be done.

[Milo]

Frankly, I still can't see the benefits of rebooting the series wholesale would bring in lieu of just writing more substantial stories and actually allowing some character development to occur...

It can happen without a reboot.

Again....

So I'm reading the thread and I'm coming across a lot of responces echoing what could be boiled down to same thing...

Yes, this sounds like an incredibly easy thing Sonic Team can do for the franchise...in theory anyway, considering that there isn't much of/any of that in practice after the psuedo-reboot that was Unleashed. It hasn't happened in Colors or Generations, why expect it to happen in the next game or any future games afterwards?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Grunkle Grouch

[Soniman]

Except the reebot was relevant in Colors. Why do so many people believe its not?

[Milo]

Except the reebot was relevant in Colors.

But it isn't as relevant or isn't relevant at all in the Sonic games released afterwards.

[TwilightStarling]

I don't particularly care whether or not Sega does a reboot. But from a business perspective, I don't see why the hell Sega should. Sonic is primarily marketed at children, who probably don't fuss over things like what's canon and what isn't nearly as much as older fans do. Why should Sega do a reboot just to satisfy us bitter skeptical veteran Sonic fans? We may not all like characters like Shadow or Silver or Jet or Big or whoever, but I don't think their doing the franchise any harm, especially not in recent games, where most of the secondary characters just make cameos. Besides, more characters means more merchandise can be made.

[Multikaris]

*sigh*

But in my humblest of humble opinions, reboot or GTFO. A universe where there aren't 9000 gods of destruction, Sonic '06 and Shadow happening, and so many other things is a good universe in my book.

Knuckles can be reintroduced with a less convoluted backstory, and maybe we can focus more on his so-called rivalry with Sonic that they don't utilize yet claim exists. Amy can be made into less of a stalker, Shadow can be fixed (a MAMMOTH task but hey), so much potential. Also, we can *maybe* leave certain characters who don't really have potential behind.

The world can be recreated, with a definite name and design, rather than the current "Sonic's World", a place where Kingdom Valley and Music Plant co-exist somehow...

Also, we can finally kill off Sonic and have the great and glorious Eggman become the main character!

What characters should we hypothetically leave behind?

[Kuzu]

I don't particularly care whether or not Sega does a reboot. But from a business perspective, I don't see why the hell Sega should. Sonic is primarily marketed at children, who probably don't fuss over things like what's canon and what isn't nearly as much as older fans do. Why should Sega do a reboot just to satisfy us bitter skeptical veteran Sonic fans? We may not all like characters like Shadow or Silver or Jet or Big or whoever, but I don't think their doing the franchise any harm, especially not in recent games, where most of the secondary characters just make cameos. Besides, more characters means more merchandise can be made.

May as well not even call them characters with this attitude; I dunno, I just feel like the narrative potential for this series is just being wasted simply because nobody feels like trying. Yeah, the series is marketed towards kids who usually don't care about narrative, and the series has a done a terrible job with it's characters and narratives in the past, but for god's sake you have all of these characters with different backgrounds and personalities and relationships, do something with it.

Just neglecting everything, and downplaying the story to nonexistence is the lazy way out, and a major cop-out. Take the characters, and mythos away, what separates Sonic from the rest of the crowd? Speed is basically a common trait among games nowadays, and Sonic's current way of using it isn't exactly revolutionary or innovative. Sonic can at least have an interesting story to separate himself from the standard platformer.

Once again, I mean a reboot isn't exactly necessary in this case(and I don't understand why people view it as some sort of plague), but all I want is a more stable continuity that utilizes it's characters, and mythos in a proper and appealing way.

What characters should we hypothetically leave behind?

Ideally we should keep everyone, but in my personal opinion I think we should cut(Or at least severely reduce the screentime of) characters who haven't added much of anything since their inception *cough*creambig*cough*

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Cream and Big barely have enough screen time to matter anyway, so it's not like keeping them would detract from anything.