Rebooting the Franchise: Good or Bad?

[Eternal EX]

After hanging out in the "Powers" topic. I've come to a conclusion. This series does need a reboot. We have OP characters like Shadow and metal running around and other characters who really serve no purpose anymore. (Cream, Espio, Knuckles...KNUCKLES). I would be a very happy person if they gave Knuckles a new, better back ground that allows him to be in any game just because. I mean we all know he is part of the main trio. But yet he gets the least screen time...why? Because he is stuck on AI protecting an emerald that serves no purpose anymore. Last time we saw the ME was..........not counting Sonic X, Sonic Adventure 2. And how long ago was that? 10 years ago. And he's been in recent games just because Sega decides to put him in there because they know he will please the fans. Why not just reboot the series and give everyone a reason to be around?

Amy is the stalker. So she kinda is forced to show up randomly. Tails is the sidekick. Nuff said. What is Shadow, Rouge, Silver, and the full Chaotix role? Random support? I can understand the Chaotix because, well they are just detectives and just happen to be friends with the blue hog. But what about Shadow, Rouge, Silver and Blaze? Silver shouldn't even exist yet. Blaze is suppose to be in a different universe acting like a 2nd Knuckles. And WTF is Shadow and Rouge's role? We know Shadow is still considered a main character and somewhat a rival to sonic but his rival role is never used anymore. (Except generations and don't even get me started on how crappy that battle was)

And then we have Metal Sonic. After Heroes, he literally became a god. How sonic can still beat him will haunt my brain til I die. He needs to be rebooted (no pun intended) and given his rightful role as Sonic's rival and main enemy (eggy's pawn). It seems like the only characters actually acting right are Sonic, Tails and Eggman. The rest are just fillers and dead characters.

[Salamander]

You don't need a reboot to change any of those things.

Honestly, I'm confused by this belief that a "reboot" will be some kind of magic button that will make the series better-written. Because that is essentially the argument here - people want better writing. A continuity reboot will not give you that. Hiring better writers and having a development team who actually want to include a plot in their game will give you better writing.

Not unrelated is the belief that a reboot will cause the critics and reviewers of the series to suddenly forget or disregard every previous game and every point of contention, many already illogical or cultural, which they have with the series. This is laughable.

Really, what's your fear of rebooting the franchise? Tell me, and we'll see if we can put a positive spin on it.

For every best-case scenario there is also a worst-case scenario. Assuming that any given idea will work out perfectly is as foolish as assuming that it will work out terribly. In any case, what you describe isn't a reboot but what the developers have been doing anyway - progressively rewriting and updating the stock material of the series. That they have lately been doing so in a conservative direction, minimising narrative content and continuity links, does not invalidate the possibility of future expansion; nor does it render it any less the equivalent of the holistic re-envisioning you advocate.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

For every best-case scenario there is also a worst-case scenario. Assuming that any given idea will work out perfectly is as foolish as assuming that it will work out terribly.

That was pretty much my whole point throughout that entire post dude, except in reverse. That's why I was asking about people's fears in the first place.

In any case, what you describe isn't a reboot but what the developers have been doing anyway - progressively rewriting and updating the stock material of the series. That they have lately been doing so in a conservative direction, minimising narrative content and continuity links, does not invalidate the possibility of future expansion; nor does it render it any less the equivalent of the holistic re-envisioning you advocate.

I think you're completely missing the point, because I'm not advocating a re-envisioning of anything. I'm saying that the fears of a reboot are a paranoia over the worst case when they may not even do what people fear from the term. Whatever reboot people don't want because they're afraid might actually be revealed to be something they'll end up supporting if it avoids doing the things they fear will happen.

For example, rather than erasing the characters in the reboot, said reboot still keeps them but gives them newer roles to be a part of instead of the typical ones we've known them to be in. Rather a reboot is necessary isn't my point, and I don't even think it is, but it isn't something that people need to look at in the worst possible light.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Ezeek]

what exactly do they mean by reboot? like new characters and stuff? or like new gameplay?

[Jack / Joker]

what exactly do they mean by reboot? like new characters and stuff? or like new gameplay?

Start from scratch with a new attempt at the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise. Like the same thing again but also drastically different if ya know what I mean. I think :s

[TheOcelot]

Start from scratch with a new attempt at the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise. Like the same thing again but also drastically different if ya know what I mean. I think :s

Yeah like Skylanders maybe?

[Johnny Boy]

Yeah like Skylanders maybe?

Dear god, please no.

[Peelout!]

Not like Skylanders, please. I only want a reboot if it doesn´t resemble to Skylanders. Spyro RIP.

[Speedy]

Really, what's your fear of rebooting the franchise? Tell me, and we'll see if we can put a positive spin on it.

[Kuzu]

Can I have a short version of that, I don't feel like reading.

[Nepenthe]

He basically said what I've been saying all along:

If you want better writing, then advocate for better writing and development in the current universe instead of reboots.

[Speedy]

Yup, just thought I'd have to say more than 'Look what Nepenthe said'. ^^

Maybe we should start a campaign. 'Better Sonic writing for the win', or something like that.

[Kuzu]

i'll just go back say that a reboot wouldn't matter either way then, and shouldn't be treated as something bad simply because people are afraid of a little change.

[Nepenthe]

Being afraid of change is a strawman towards my personal argument and not a good defense in general. The fact is, if a reboot wouldn't matter either way, that means it's a non-solution to the problems the canon faces and certainly no more beneficial than keeping the current universe the same and simply improving the writing therein. As such, I see no reason to champion a reboot simply because you and others want mere change, especially when there are indeed other solutions to help facilitate the change you want anyway, like advocating Sonic Team include more interesting stories in their games.

But seriously, what about the "better writing" option is so distasteful to the people advocating a reboot?

[FourCartridge]

Last time Sonic Team tried a deep story, we got 06. I never played Black Knight, but I've been hearing people say it handled plot well. If those people had a go at mainline Sonic, I'd give it a try maybe.

This whole reboot thing has me confused on so many levels with what the fanbase wants; We had the whole "Sonic has crappy friends" thing, and it kinda feels recursive to see demands to make the others playable. It's like one step forward, one step back really. ...Eh.

[Kuzu]

Being afraid of change is a strawman towards my personal argument and not a good defense in general. The fact is, if a reboot wouldn't matter either way, that means it's a non-solution to the problems the canon faces and certainly no more beneficial than keeping the current universe the same and simply improving the writing therein. As such, I see no reason to champion a reboot simply because you and others want mere change, especially when there are indeed other solutions to help facilitate the change you want anyway, like advocating Sonic Team include more interesting stories in their games.

I'm not arguing better writing isn't a solution, I'm arguing against the idea that a reboot is a completely bad and terrible idea for no other reason than because it's different is ludicrous. If better writing came as a result of a reboot, then what would people have to complain about?

Edited August 14, 2012 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't hesitate one bit to accept better writing if it came along. But I don't think simply writing well from here on out is going to solve all the story-related problems this series has. This series has squandered its opportunities, produced shallow characters, and failed to build a consistent world. Can you fix this, continuing from how things are? Some of it, maybe. But you can't reintroduce a character. You can't restore the mystery to something that's been explained. No matter what comes next, no matter how well written, it has to respect what's happened in the past, good or bad.

[Nepenthe]

I'm not arguing better writing isn't a solution, I'm arguing against the idea that a reboot is a completely bad and terrible idea for no other reason than because it's different is ludicrous. If better writing came as a result of a reboot, then what would people have to complain about?

Nothing. But if better writing didn't come about because of a reboot- again, as we saw with Sonic 06- then congratulations, you've proceeded to soft or hard reboot the universe towards no tangible change in quality. So good job???

Almost any idea on the planet can have good or bad consequences depending upon how you argue your point of view. But that's regardless of the fact that no one here has convinced me that a reboot would be a surefire way to better writing. However, pushing Sonic Team to create better stories is 100% guaranteed to do so. As circular as that is, the point remains that the solution to this particular problem is fairly obvious.

I wouldn't hesitate one bit to accept better writing if it came along. But I don't think simply writing well from here on out is going to solve all the story-related problems this series has. This series has squandered its opportunities, produced shallow characters, and failed to build a consistent world. Can you fix this, continuing from how things are? Some of it, maybe. But you can't reintroduce a character. You can't restore the mystery to something that's been explained. No matter what comes next, no matter how well written, it has to respect what's happened in the past, good or bad.

The current canon doesn't really respect what's happened in the past now considering the stories are so disconnected from one another and never bother exploring the mistakes and plotholes, raising the question of "why should we care?" Considering how little impact the moon or Blaze's origins have had on the story at large and subsequently my enjoyment of them, I just don't give a rat's ass that these issues exist and remain unsolved. They really don't matter because Sega has essentially said they don't.

And again, I derive my enjoyment from the serialized, episodic, individual adventure approach to the storytelling, and I don't think rebooting everything for the sake of trying to crunch the universe's current aesthetic and tonal breadth into greater "consistency" or to make sure we never have these kinds of non-issues again is all that appealing. The only thing I seek from the stories now on is better characterization and more relevant plots, which is entirely possible with the current universe in play.

[Diogenes]

The current canon doesn't really respect what's happened in the past now considering the stories are so disconnected from one another and never bother exploring the mistakes and plotholes, raising the question of "why should we care?"

That kind of thing falls into what I consider "bad writing" and "things to do the opposite of". If this series were to have good writing, as I see it, it would actually care about continuity and plotholes. And all that junk that they just ignore now would be a problem.

The only thing I seek from the stories now on is better characterization and more relevant plots, which is entirely possible with the current universe in play.

And I want more than that, which is why "just write better" isn't a good enough solution to me.

[Nepenthe]

That kind of thing falls into what I consider "bad writing" and "things to do the opposite of". If this series were to have good writing, as I see it, it would actually care about continuity and plotholes. And all that junk that they just ignore now would be a problem.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

Even series with good writing are guaranteed to have continuity issues of some sorts as they continue on. Are these things objective flaws? Yes.

Would be nice to not have a 20 year head start on accruing them, then...

But I think their overall impact as problems depend upon the quality of rest of the writing or the general set-up of the story. In other words, a story with a plothole isn't necessarily shit, but a story with shit writing however is, even without any plotholes whatsoever.

Ok? I mean, again, I'm in no way against good writing, nor do I think that a reboot in itself will cause good writing to spontaneously manifest.

The other ones are aesthetic differences we will forever disagree upon, such as the idea of Green Hill Zone existing alongside Metal City being ludicrous enough to warrant some kind of aesthetic consistency, something I consider bland and unappealing,

So, what, is anything less than "can have literally any location" bland and unappealing?

The only thing I agree that would warrant a reboot is solving or "relieving the burden" of plotholes from the current universe, but I have absolutely no idea why you would dedicate an entire reboot to plotholes that do not carry any tangible impact on the universe anyway.

Again, because I want a series where continuity actually matters, which necessarily implies that past events will have some impact on future events.

I consider that a waste of time.

So's writing around the last 20 years of plaque.

[Nepenthe]

Would be nice to not have a 20 year head start on accruing them, then...

This is totally, completely, 100% accurate.

Ok? I mean, again, I'm in no way against good writing, nor do I think that a reboot in itself will cause good writing to spontaneously manifest.

I never said you were. My point is that your focus on plotholes that don't serve to negatively impact the universe anyways is misguided in some respects, especially as grounds to warrant a reboot.

So, what, is anything less than "can have literally any location" bland and unappealing?

Yes, in the same way it would be if you started disallowing the Mario series from having toy lands, icy volcanoes, and bee kingdoms in the same game on the basis of inconsistency.

Again, because I want a series where continuity actually matters, which necessarily implies that past events will have some impact on future events.

Then start making the continuity matter. Allow characters to meaningfully reference past events from older games, allow current stories to compound on one another, and let the characters develop some.

So's writing around the last 20 years of plaque.

You do not have to write around anything in a canon you self-describe as being inconsequential. You simply write good stuff from now on.

And because of this fundamental disagreement we keep having where I don't understand why a reboot is necessary in lieu of better writing, I still want to know exactly what you would reboot from the current universe. What elements would you specifically get rid of in order to open up the universe to better storytelling? Because at this rate, I will never empathize with your point of view.

[Toa Axis]

I don't think a reboot would be wise.

Sonic has spent the past 5 years digging himself out of one of the darkest pitfalls in gaming history. Now that his games are good again, why reboot the franchise? Just continue from the success of recent games.

You can't just reboot the franchise in hope that everyone will forget what happened in the past. It's just a cheap way of acting like it never happened.

So in conclusion, if you ask me, the series doesn't need a reboot.

[Diogenes]

I never said you were. My point is that your focus on plotholes that don't serve to negatively impact the universe anyways is misguided in some respects, especially as grounds to warrant a reboot.

And, again, from my perspective going forward with "good writing" means caring about continuity and past events, at which point the quagmire of the last 15-20 years of the series becomes a problem.

Yes, in the same way it would be if you started disallowing the Mario series from having toy lands, icy volcanoes, and bee kingdoms in the same game on the basis of inconsistency.

Which is exactly not what I'm proposing.

Then start making the continuity matter. Allow characters to meaningfully reference past events from older games, allow current stories to compound on one another, and let the characters develop some.

Okay. But I'd still rather start over and build up a history worth referencing, rather than "remember the time the genies were also aliens?"

And because of this fundamental disagreement we keep having where I don't understand why a reboot is necessary in lieu of better writing, I still want to know exactly what you would reboot from the current universe. What elements would you specifically get rid of in order to open up the universe to better storytelling? Because at this rate, I will never empathize with your point of view.

Start over. Reintroduce the characters over the course of several games, but better written. Same broad strokes, better details. More complex personalities, more focused desires and problems. Situations similar to how they were originally introduced, but better written. Build up mysteries surrounding the important elements of the series, like the emeralds. Give Sonic some character flaws. Actually give Shadow some connection to Sonic, rather than just randomly being near-identical. Make Metal Sonic worth caring about. Plan ahead for once.

[Soniman]

I don't think a reboot would be wise.

Sonic has spent the past 5 years digging himself out of one of the darkest pitfalls in gaming history. Now that his games are good again, why reboot the franchise? Just continue from the success of recent games.

You can't just reboot the franchise in hope that everyone will forget what happened in the past. It's just a cheap way of acting like it never happened.

So in conclusion, if you ask me, the series doesn't need a reboot.

Basically this. 5-6 years ago I would have jumped on the chance to reboot the series and the miss it had created. Now I think the universe is in a decent enough place where I think a reboot simply isnt needed.