Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[turbojet]

It would explain his sudden noobness despite having years of experience under his belt. Ash was never a particularly interesting character, being a pretty standard Shonen heroes and whatnot, but now it just feels like the writers have no fucking clue what to do with him. His goal "to be a master" is all but forgotten and he just seems to travel for the sake of it nowadays, and despite YEARS having passed he never ages, period and continues to make noobish mistakes. It's so fucking annoying.

In the English version before Unova, he is actually 12 so it's been two years time period. Hoen and Sinnoh, Ash was not making noobish mistakes. In his eyes, he feels that type advantages are irrelevant and with high attack power, he has made it irrelevant. Just think about the Pokemon that he owns and how he battles. What I liked about the Sinnoh league was that the trainers picked out Ash's style of battle and were forced to adapt. For example, Conway(I think. Correct me if I'm wrong) used trick room, a move that switches speed stats between Pokemon. This move was actually devastating and after that, his subsequent challengers did not even bother to try to out power him. They used the environment and status affect moves to try to slow Ash down. Ash specializes with sweepers, fast Pokemon with high attack power. This is why Torterra had problems adjusting and why he rarely uses Snorlax and Muk. Pikachu is the embodiment of his style. Fast Pokemon with a high attack. This is why I loved Sinnoh so much because it incorporated actual strategy instead of move for move standard flair.

 

As for getting a new protagonist,  not until Ash wins a fucking league or beats an Elite Four member(no character has come close to even taking out a Pokemon owned by an Elite Four member). I know that it seems like they have him regress some season(To be fair, he didn't regress at all in Hoen and Johto. And in Sinnoh, his experience didn't take much of a hit), but this character has been around for 15 years. I want to see him win a league. As Soniman displayed, Ash is progressing as his standing his increasing with each tournament, and we may be looking at the individual trainer and comparing it to how we handle it in games.

[-Robin-]

I like to think that Ash took a year long break between Sinnoh and Unova and forgot the basics. Then he gets so piqued up with rejuvenated interest in exploring the region that he makes brash mistakes.

/foreveradefendant.

[turbojet]

For fuck's sake, he switched Volt Tackle with Electro Ball!

[Soniman]

Just saw that episode where Pikachu learned it and I feared that was the case (why the fuck didn't they just get rid of Quick Attack), it sucks because Volt Tackle was the coolest looking move in the show. Though to be fair, it wasn't really Ash's choice.

[Celestia]

I always thought the four moves thing wouldn't make sense in the show, so I still have no clue why they've suddenly decided to enforce that rule. I mean, it makes sense for the games because it's part of the gameplay and strategy and all that, but in-universe it just doesn't make any sense. Especially in the anime where Pokemon are clearly very intelligent, why would they forget how to use a move just because they learned a new one?

[turbojet]

I always thought the four moves thing wouldn't make sense in the show, so I still have no clue why they've suddenly decided to enforce that rule. I mean, it makes sense for the games because it's part of the gameplay and strategy and all that, but in-universe it just doesn't make any sense. Especially in the anime where Pokemon are clearly very intelligent, why would they forget how to use a move just because they learned a new one?

They always have. The only Pokemon that used more than 5 moves was that Dragonite in the Orange League.

[Kuzu]

In the English version before Unova, he is actually 12 so it's been two years time period. Hoen and Sinnoh, Ash was not making noobish mistakes. In his eyes, he feels that type advantages are irrelevant and with high attack power, he has made it irrelevant. Just think about the Pokemon that he owns and how he battles. What I liked about the Sinnoh league was that the trainers picked out Ash's style of battle and were forced to adapt. For example, Conway(I think. Correct me if I'm wrong) used trick room, a move that switches speed stats between Pokemon. This move was actually devastating and after that, his subsequent challengers did not even bother to try to out power him. They used the environment and status affect moves to try to slow Ash down. Ash specializes with sweepers, fast Pokemon with high attack power. This is why Torterra had problems adjusting and why he rarely uses Snorlax and Muk. Pikachu is the embodiment of his style. Fast Pokemon with a high attack. This is why I loved Sinnoh so much because it incorporated actual strategy instead of move for move standard flair.

 

As for getting a new protagonist,  not until Ash wins a fucking league or beats an Elite Four member(no character has come close to even taking out a Pokemon owned by an Elite Four member). I know that it seems like they have him regress some season(To be fair, he didn't regress at all in Hoen and Johto. And in Sinnoh, his experience didn't take much of a hit), but this character has been around for 15 years. I want to see him win a league. As Soniman displayed, Ash is progressing as his standing his increasing with each tournament, and we may be looking at the individual trainer and comparing it to how we handle it in games.

 

 

Ya know, I agree with this and my only problem with Ash is like I said, the writers are running out of ideas with him. 15 fucking years and he still hasn't won a league outside of filler, I mean how long do we have to wait for him to accomplish something that major? I mean, I consider him beating the Battle Frontier a much higher achievement than him winning a league at this point.

 

 

I mean Red(From the manga) won a league on his first try, and it was damn hard fought victory, I mean why can't ash have that.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Old dead account]

Is there really a 4 moves deal in the anime? I mean when was the last time Pikachu used ThunderSHOCK as opposed to ThunderBOLT or Thunder? Like early Kanto or something?

[-Robin-]

Pikachu abandons Thundershock early on in favor of the more reliable Thunderbolt, and Thunder in extreme situations. He then abandoned Thunder as well around Hoenn, iirc, sometime before he adopted Volt Tackle.

Pikachu's catalogue of moves just seems to be random. He picked up Thunderbolt before his rematch with Brock, but didn't learn the relatively-basic Quick Attack until his rematch with Lt. Surge's Raichu; he even picked up Agility in the process.

You want to criticize Pikachu for seemingly going through level resets with each saga? He does it in-between episodes, apparently, if his in-game movelist is to be regarded.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Crystal King

[Soniman]

I never got that "Pikachu gets depowered each season" complaint, the only time it ever happened is arguably Hoenn, and even then I saw no real decrease in his battle experience it was really just an episode where Pikachu got sick, but then reverted back to his usual self. It never happened in Sinnoh at all, and BW seems to have been the same situation with Hoenn.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Soniman

[Spin Attaxx]

Ash only wins Leagues if they are filler.

But wait, lets look at the statistics.

Indigo: Top 16

Johto: Top 8

Hoenn: Top 8

Sinnoh: Top 4

Unova: Top 4

It stands to reason that the next League he will either get in the top 2, or finally win it. We can only hope.

 

Spoiler alert: it's not those two suggestions. Ash winning is about as likely as my inanimate doorknob singing "I'm a Happy Gay Doorknob".

[Soniman]

You know what time it is folks?

 

It's Evaluation Time!!

 

 

Finally got to the current episode of Pokemon, it's been a long road. And this road ends with Best Wishes.

 

 

And since I didn't actually watch all of it due to not all of it being dubbed, I guess the best I can do is give my thoughts on it so far (and only the dub).

 

The way Gen 5 was introduced to the anime was a lot different then how it usually goes down. Usually about 1/2 or 3/4 though a Arc we usually get a peak at the Pokemon from the latest Gen. The first Season had Togepi, Johto had Kecleon and Blazekien, Hoenn had Munchlax, etc. However besides the Zoroark movie, we didn't a chance to see any of Gen 5 Pokemon. Best Wishes even starts as if it's  a completely new show. While previous seasons had a sense of continuity when they crossed into one another, Gen 5 starts up as if it's completely separate from previous seasons, with a new artsyle and everything. I guess it's trying to be the same way the Gen 5 games were, not wanting anything to do with previous Gens and put all of their focus on Gen 5. By the way Ash's new look a little to....kiddy. His previous Diamond and Pearl outfit gave an air of maturity in my opinion. But his new baby blue and white outfit coupled with his big brown eyes gives the sense that they really don't want Ash to grow up and actually mature as a trainer......and it turns out I was right, but we'll get to that later.

 

The new artsyle this show is very pleasing to the eyes, the show finally looks on par with most other anime out there, the color palette is very bright and poppy, with a few good cases of genuine scenery porn, the animation is a also a lot more fluid and less stiff, with a lot of the characters reacting and animating in very vibrant manners. The battle animations and choreography has greatly improved from this as well, It certainly has come a long way from the original "battling slideshow" method that they started out with. Also the character designs are more visually striking as well, most notably in characters like Burgundy, Georgia, and Stephan.

 

The pacing in this show is really good I must say, it seems to take the Hoenn and Kanto route of having little padding/filler and make Ash's journey to collect the badges to be a relatively painless experience which I can appreciate. And like Sinnoh we get a few story arcs in order to not make things to formulaic, most of them being the Battle Club Mini Tournaments. The tournaments was a grab way to mix and match many of the rivals up against the main characters, for instance you would see Trip (Ash's Rival) vs Cilan, or Ash vs Burghund (Cilan's Rival). The most notable one however is the Junior Cup Arc, we get to see Cynthia in all her adorableness again, a legendary Pokemon actually sticks with Ash and co for awhile (still is in the dub), Dawn and Piplup makes a reappearance, and we finally get to see Ash going up against Trip. And of course Ash loses to Trip, because the writers never want Ash to actually get a leg up on his rivals for once. On the bright side though, Trip gets his ass kicked by Aldder in similar vein to how when Paul went up against Cynthia.

 

Still though, it was nice to see Dawn again, and unlike May's return we get a lot more episodes with her which she bonds with the rest of the new cast. Another little subplot I loved was the the rivalry between Dawn's Piplup and Ash's Oshawott for Melotta's affection, it was really entertaining to se these two go at it.

 

 

And it all concludes with them making up and hugging it out, very sweet.

 

Other story arcs involve Team Rocket's plans to steal Pokemon, and you'd be surprised how well these plans come about Ash and co actually have to take their plans seriously and their limited appearances really help whatever plans they come up with fell a lot more unique, but ill get more into that when we look at Team Rocket.

 

The farthest the episodes go are to Cameron's match with that water Gym Leader guy, from what I know there is the Melotta conclusion, Team Rocket gets an arc I think, the Pokemon League, and finally Team Plasma makes an appearance. So I'm looking forward to that.

 

I think I ranted enough about Ash's character in a previous comment, but in a nutshell I think Ash has become almost borderline braindead in the beginning of the series. He pretty much blundered through Unnova acting like a complete newbie when we know damn well that he isn't, and any feeling of growth he had in previous seasons felt like it was all sucked out. The kid makes rookie mistakes (the same ones he once scolded May and Dawn for) and acts as if he's never seen or trained a Pokemon in his life. His Pikachu even loses to a fucking starter Snivy, the same godamn Pikachu that took out a Regice and Latias can't do the same for a puny Snivy, what the hell man? The gym battle with Elesa was one of the most retarded Ash moments ever. Why? Well for one he went into a 3 Pokemon Gym Battle with just ONE Pokemon (that being Palpitoad)on the grounds that he has a type advantage and by that logic his single Pokemon would sweep her entire team because of it. What the fuck was up with his train of thought? Ash should fucking know by now that type advantages aren't always a guaranteed victory (as he SHOULD fucking know due to the many Gym Battles teaching him that damn lesson) not to mention the he actively did not bring any Pokemon just in case Palpitoad bit the dust (which it did) and so Ash had to waste everyone's time by briefly postponing the match to get another Pokemon from storage, good fucking christ that entire battle gave me a migraine. Bottom line, the writers should really be taking strides to have Ash mature as a Pokemon Trainer, and as a person. Constantly hitting the reset button on his skill level is lazy and please stop doing in. (also make him a bit less oblivious to matters of the heart plz.) 

 

As of right now, I'm not to big on Iris character. I mean, I still like her but not as much as the previous leading ladies. I think it's because Iris acts in a rather stuck up way, constantly calling Ash a kid and frequently taking the wind out of his sales (and after Dawn was such a great pillar of support for Ash, it kind of leaves me a bit irritated). However her acrobatic skills and herbalist knowledge do make her far more of a capable and useful companion when the going gets rough.

 

Cilan is pretty great, and he serves as a great replacement for Brock. The personality he brings to the table is, his personality is very eccentric and over the top. What I mainly like about him is the way he goes about evaluating others and the general sophisticated manner in which he speaks. Like Brock he is the mature one of the group who knows how to cook really well. He also prides on being a very high level Pokemon Connoisseur as well as a Train Connoisseur, a Movie Connoisseur, and a *insert interest here* Connoisseur. It's actually really adorable to see him geek out over whatever things he is interested in. The way he speaks in food/restaurant related references is actually kind of clever and it isn't nearly as annoying as I thought it would be. I don't know what else to say, he's a really charming character.

 

The way they handled Team Rocket was fucking masterful and a huge breath of fresh, clean, unpolluted air. in the past, Team Rocket took up 20-40% of nearly every single episode, which most of the time felt like they were just padding out the episode. Not to mention whenever I was genuinely enjoy character moments and what not, Team Rocket's stupid scheme would come in and just waste the episode and whatever potential it had. Now though? No such thing, Team Rocket now only seldom appear, and when they do they are being actually being competent, no longer screwing up the simplest of tasks and blasting off every episode, and it really helps to make them strong villains in the end. And due to them not taking up every episode it gives Ash and the gang the chance to get into their own hijinks, which go a long way to having more original concepts for the episodes. They still occasionally try to steal Pikachu, but it's so few and far between that it comes off as a nice surprise in the respective episode rather than the same old thing. Simply put, I don't think ill miss the zanier Team Rocket, at least as of now.

 

Trip is a pretty lame rival for Ash, especially after the intimidating Paul. He doesn't really.....do anything, all he does is criticize Ash's upbringing and apparent lack of general know how (calling it "Basic Stuff"). He takes pictures occasionally....I suppose that's a character quirk. Really any since of character he has relates to his relationship with Aldder and his drive to defeat him in battle one day. He really has no character dynamic with Ash and it never really goes beyond "recurring character that's somewhat rude to Ash", at least not so far.

 

Bianca is fucking adorable. She's kind of ditzy and generally a klutz, but she's generally nice to be around and is always optimistic. And the way she fawns over cute Pokemon (specifically Zorura) is really fun to watch, it's also really nice to see just how much shit she puts Ash through (and it's usually unintentional) though at the end of the day she still thinks of her as a good friend (even battling against her father in protest of her being sent home). She even occasionally joins the cast, and I hope she does so again in the future.

 

Finally let's talk about the Pokemon. Let me just say it was a great idea to have Ash capture more than 6 Pokemon and actually try to catch as many as he can, constantly rotating all of them in order for all of them to see some action. Personality wise they seem a bit lacking, probably due to them being more abundant. Oshawott is the troublemaker who constantly breaks out of his Pokeball on his own. Snivy is "the chick", usually being the one with the common sense. Tepig is the prototypical "abounded fire starter" though he gets over it pretty quickly unlike the other ones. Sandile/Krookorock/Krookodile is probably Ash' coolest Pokemon, acting confident, strong and cool while he his his shades on, when he loses them however he turns into a nervous, cowardly wreck. Levanny, Palpitoad and Roggenrola are just kind of there.

 

So far id say Best Wishes is a pretty good series so far. Good points are good pacing, welcome changes to the show's formula, and colorful art style. Bad points are regression of Ash's character and characters that are back to not having "active" goals and instead goes back to having long term ones.

 

I gotta say, after marathoning it for so long, I'm kind of sad that I will now have to wait once a week for each new episode like everyone else. Though on the bride side I'm finally free to catch up on other stuff, so that's cool.

 

Part of me thinks I should keep watching the subbed episodes in order to catch up with everyone else, but I'm not 100% sure if I should.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Soniman

[-Robin-]

New episode title unveiled, and will be shown February 7th. Episode 773: Colress VS Looker! The Team Plasma Conspiracy! A hell of a random matchup if I ever saw one.

[Spin Attaxx]

You like new Team Rocket?

 

The way things are looking for their appearance in Episode N...

 

Enjoy serious Rocket WHILE YOU FUCKING CAN.

[turbojet]

(also make him a bit less oblivious to matters of the heart plz.) 

Seriously. He is below Shounen levels of obliviousness. I mean every Shounen character so far realizes at some point that they are in fact attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe with the exception of Luffy, but so the fuck what. That doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that Ash has been with four different girls. 2 were obviously crushing on him(Misty and May) and one was more of a gal pal(Dawn) and the other is just there to show him up in battles(Iris). It says something when Pikachu is more cognizant of the opposite sex than his trainer(Buneary).

[Soniman]

Id say May is the gal pal due to the Mentor/Student relationship and the show's obvious preference for May and Drew, whereas with Dawn and Ash, the two seemed pretty close, often borrowing frequently from each other's battling methods and using them (Buizel's Aqua Ice Jet and the Counter Shield) not to mention the girl donned a cheerleader outfit and cheered Ash on in his Gym battles occasionally, she even denied traveling with her childhood friend/fellow coordinator just to cheer Ash on at the League and....

 

 

oh lord I'm getting into a shipping debate, aren't I?

 

 

*ahem* either way I agree. Let's not even get into the fact that Ash new damn well what love was in the early series (when Buterfree was trying to court a female).

Edited January 7, 2013 by Soniman

[buba]

she even denied traveling with her childhood friend/fellow coordinator just to cheer Ash on at the League and....

 

Hahaha, I forgot how she left Kenny hanging alone at the lighthouse breaking their promise just to follow Ash.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Tmsp

[-blank-]

So, Soniman's marathoning of the entire series up to this point has made me want to go back and watch all the old Kanto episodes at least. Plus, all this Pokemon news has made me feel kind of nostalgic and such and I've always had a soft spot for the first couple seasons.

[Johnny Boy]

You like new Team Rocket?

The way things are looking for their appearance in Episode N...

Enjoy serious Rocket WHILE YOU FUCKING CAN.

Oh god, you mean goofy, incompetent, episode padding team rocket is coming back? Damn it!

[-Robin-]

The only instance of Team Rocket we've seen since the Meloetta arc is the trailer for the N arc, where white-uniformed Jessie and James are utterly crushing Pikachu in battle, and the three of them shooting point blank at Snivy and Axew, with N coming in to take the hit.

There is nothing to substantiate the old TR coming back with what we have atm.

[Johnny Boy]

Oh thank Arceus! I would be severely dissapointed if Team Rocket went back to the way they used to be after they became truly threatning for once during the run of Best Wishes.

[Kuzu]

Hahaha, I forgot how she left Kenny hanging alone at the lighthouse breaking their promise just to follow Ash.

 

 

Ya know, this would a be dick move if I didn't hate Kenny.

[Soniman]

Ya know, this would a be dick move if I didn't hate Kenny.

Considering Dawn had no say in the promise at all, id say it was quite fair leaving his ass behind.

[Kuzu]

Considering Dawn had no say in the promise at all, id say it was quite fair leaving his ass behind.

 

 

Guy was just unlikable all around, so fuck him.

 

 

 

Ya know, I used to be a massive Pokeshipper...but then the writers made Ash braindead when it came to anything not related to Pokemon, and I realized it's not going to go anywhere so I promptly jumped ship.

 

 

Like turbo, it speaks volumes when the fucking animal is more sexually aware then he is.

[-Robin-]

I'm partial to the Ash pairings where the girl is blatant about her emotions, but is only around for a few episodes. Makes good fanfic material.

Angie and Anabel get top billing in that regard.