Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[Spin Attaxx]

BTW, is it me, or is Kodai from Illusions a cross between Rupert Murdoch and the Devil?

[redhellc]

So I decided to give the anime another chance, and I got say I'm actually enjoying it.

 

Good to see they upped the quality. And I actually like Iris and Dent, especially Dent.

 

I just wished they could pass Ash's story and do somebody new, but from what I saw until now I say not bad, not bad at all.  

[Soniman]

Finally finished Advanced Generation, a really great romp when all's said and done.

Hoenn: The fresh start really helped this season and it actually goes along with how Gen III was presented as a whole. Ash getting rid of all his previous Pokemon helps because we don't have to waste time slowly weeding out the old cast before we start developing the new members and just jumping straight into that. In fact, the Hoenn cast of Pokemon is probablyt he most well characterized I've seen so far. For example, Treeko was "the cool guy" who wouldn't associate with most of the other Pokemon, Corphish was the hothead always jumping into danger and not thinking, Snorunt was the mischievous troublemaker, Torkoal was the emotional crybaby. Swellow was just another of Ash's bird Pokemon (as in they barely have character) but Swellow arguably saw the most action than either Pidgeot or Noctowl, so that's a plus. Ash's goal remains the same, go to each Gym Battle and participate in the Hoenn League we also get the new traveling companions of May and Max, however these two aren't hanging out with Ash for reason, May's eventual goal is to win Pokemon Contest so she could participate in the Grand Festival and become Top Coordinator. The introduction of another character who has goals of their own that are separate from the main character really helps the development of the character and pacing of the world Hoeen arc as a result, It's great because it gives the other characters a purpose and not just serve as tagalong companions for Ash like how (unfortunately) Misty was.

The filler is a lot less apparent then it was in Johto, only really noticeable when Ash and the gang were slumming it in Dewford for several episodes after Ash lost his gym battle with Brawly, but at least that was for the purpose of Ash doing some actual training and getting stronger for the rematch. Other than that though there really isn't any huge noticeable gaps between Ash's Gym Battles and May's Contest. Not to mention the actual filler itself is a lot more original and more enjoyable and memorable as a whole Lights, Camerupt, Action! being a notable one. The episodes seem to focus more on the new Pokemon themselves rather than the "Character of the Day" approach that Johto nearly always feel back on.

I also know it's a well paced season because I had thought the entire arc had sped by. You see with Johto I was pretty aware of how long and padded out it was through the entire thing. But with Hoenn it was so very well structured and paced that I didn't even realize it until it had ended. In fact I think I could call this my favorite season so far, but that could be my Gen III bias talking.

May's Grand Festival went a lot like how Ash's Indigo League was. May was still relatively inexperienced and she ended up losing to her rival, Drew. Though she was distraught at first, she gained the confidence to do better in the next Grand Festival.

The Hoenn league was kinda meh though. Ash didn't have a consistent rival this season so it was kind of hard to get totally invested, so they made a rival just for the league that was basically exactly like Ash from his Indigo League days. Overconfident, rash, generally ignorant of the contest rolls, that was Morrison. I suppose it serves for a decent character study between the two. Doesn't helped that Ash lost to Tyson, a totally different rival who was basically created to just be a better version of Ash and Morrison (Ash had Grovyle while he had Sceptile, Morrison had Metand while he had Metagross etc) and at the end of their battle Ash ends up losing to a Meowth/Puss in Boots parody, wow. And so Ash ends up in the Top 8 in the Hoenn League, basically not getting any better or worse than his previous League experience, boo.

Overall I can say that this is my favorite season so far, both for nostalgic reasons and actual good quality for Pokemon.

Battle Frontier: Unlike the Orange Island which was just a quick diversion to get Ash out of the way in order to prefer for Gen II, the Battle Frontier was a good way to ease people in to Gen IV while still finding a way of being in canon to the games so in that sense I think this filler season actually works better than Orange Islands did, and in fact it's better for it. Like Hoenn this season rotates between Ash's Frontier battles and May's Contests, and both of these events really show how each character has come a long way since Ash's early gym battles and May's first contest. This season was also very nostalgic, for each Frontier Brain match Ash would call on his various Pokemon he's amassed over the years. For instance Ash could call on Corphish and Swellow for one battle, and Heracross and Tauros the next, a great way of keeping things fresh. Pinch Healing, Gathering the Gang of Four, and Pace- The Final Frontier were also the big trifecta of fan service and just plain ol quality. Pinch Healing was mostly about May and her successes and failures on the Contest circuit as well as all her rivals she gained, we also saw a return of Professor Oak in the flesh. Gathering the Gang of Four was all about Ash training with and looking back on his history with his first Pokemon, them being Pikachu, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Charizard (excluding Pidgeot and Butterfree of course). It was a pretty nostalgic episode and it was really cool for Ash to end his Battle Frontier challenge with the Pokemon that began it all. Pace - The Final Frontier was Ash's shinning moment this season. Previously he had lost to Brandon on two separate occasions and now for this match Ash brings in all of his first Pokemon, giving us a memorable final battle. The final battle between Regice and Pikachu was a sight to behold, as it's one of the few times where Ash manages to take out a Legendary Pokemon with just one of is own (the last one being Charizard vs Articuno, which was equally as awesome).

May's Grand Festival this time around was a lot like how Ash's Johto League match went. May (who was more experienced) managed to beat two of her rivals at that point. Harley and Drew, Drew is more notable due to him acting similarly to Gary and how he was to Ash, with him constantly putting May down for her inexperience. But just like with Gary, he's forced to eat his words when May manages to get the best of him in the Gand Festival. Unfortunately, just like Ash she ended up losing to a random character that appeared for two episodes and had no development beforehand, they really need to cut that shit.

Finally some analysis about the characters.

Ash: After Johto, Ash has become a lot more level headed and savvy as a Pokemon trainer. When May was just starting out her journey Ash served the role as a mentor, frequently giving May advice on how to become a good Pokemon trainer. Though this was sort of dropped when May was able to do more things on her own. Otherwise, Ash acts the same as always. Always hungry, still a bit rash, and sometimes gets a bit overconfident in his own abilities.

May: Started out not liking Pokemon very much and was pretty content in just traveling the world on her own. When she started participating in contest she was able to gain the drive she needed to take up Pokemon training, though like Ash she started out being very inexperienced, but unlike Ash she wasn't very confident in her own abilities, often taking advice from those who sought to undermined her like Harley. By the Battle Frontier however, she became a natural on the Coordinator Circuit. I know a lot of people were mad that she replaced Misty, but honestly I think she's a strong and different enough character on her own that she a more than welcome replacement. She's basically my favorite, equal to Misty and in some ways better.

Max: The true tagalong kid. Max's only sign of real development is that he aspires to be a Pokemon trainer just like his father other than that he never really goes anywhere else as a character. He's a huge know-it-all with an annoying voice to match. Needless to say I'm not a huge fan of the kid, though I guess he supposed to act that way because he's May's younger brother, and I'm sure a good number of us had similar experiences with younger siblings.

Brock: Same role as always. Acting as the big brother, cooking meals, hitting on girls, etc. He gets a notable episode where Lucy (a Frontier Brain) is one of the few women on the show who actual bothers to return Brock's feelings of affection. Unfortunately like all his other crushes this doesn't go anywhere because Max is being annoying as usual.

Now that I've watched all of Advanced Generations, I can now begin what I no doubt believe will be a less than comfortable experience with Diamond and Pearl.

Well, maybe it can't be all bad, I mean, I watched the first episode and I was greeted with a .....rap theme song......joy!

Edited December 26, 2012 by TheScroogenator

[Kuzu]

Better get your popcorn ready, it's gonna be a loong season.

[-Robin-]

iirc....

 

 

You're gonna hate the gap between Eterna City and Hearthome City. The episodes where they debuted came out more than a year apart from one another.

 

You'll hate the gap between Snowpoint and Sunyshore too, because that took even more time.

[Kuzu]

You're going to hate the entire season in general, it DRAAAAGGGSSS

[turbojet]

I'll be the first to tell you that the Sinnoh Pokemon League was the most entertaining to watch...up to the Darkrai trainer. because of that Johto still holds the top spot.

[Johnny Boy]

Oh please don't get me started on Tobias. God, that character alone just made me want to book a flight to Japan just so I could slap the shit out of the people who created him.

Seriously Ash losing to him was just a complete fucking cop out! And the fact Tobias had a bunch of damn legendaries on him made Ash's loss to him even more infuriating.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Goddamn Batman

[Soniman]

Judging from these comments, I can tell I'm really gonna like this season.

 

On a unrelated note, this may be the last you see of me. Or if you do, ill probably return with newly gained wrinkles and a beard.

[SilJeff]

I love watching the Pokémon anime. I may be too old for it (I'm 19), but I don't care.

The Indigo and Orange Island arcs are still THE best IMO. Special nod to Hoenn too, that was good too, plus I found DP's storytelling interesting. This is a nitpick, I know, but I never cared for the colors of the hoenn (early digital, just after they got rid of the old cell-animation), everything is too bright IMO, but that isn't that big a hassle. I never liked Johto and I don't care for what little of Black & White I've been able to see.

I also enjoy the movies. I would rank them like this (from best to worst) :

1. The Power of One (Movie 2)

2. Destiny Deoxys (Movie 7)

3. Ranger and the Temple of the Sea (Movie 9) [tied]

3. Jirachi Wishmaker (Movie 6) [tied]

5. Spell of the Unown (Movie 3)

6. Mewtwo Strikes Back (Movie 1) {I think nostalgia is a factor here a little)

7. Heroes (Movie 5)

8. Celebi: Voice of the Forest (Movie 4)

9. Rise of Darkrai (Movie 10) [tied]

9. Lucario and the Mystery of Mew (Movie 8) [tied]

11. Arceus and the Jewel of Life (Movie 12)

12. Giratina and the Sky Warrior (Movie 11)

**. Never seen movies 13 or 14

Also, thanks to Austalia making the best dvd boxsets of the anime, and with the help of the miracle of importing, I have all the seasons of the show up to the first half of season 12 (Galactic Battles) and I even have Chronicles. Also, thanks to the USA's selection of the movies, I have all the movies up to the 13th (I got the earlier copies from when they first were released of movies 4-7, so they come with special features and Pokémon shorts, whereas the newer copies printed by Echo Bridge no longer include them), including Mewtwo Returns and the Pikachu's Winter Vacation shorts.

You can say I have an obsession, I suppose.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Mr.Snarf

[-Robin-]

Copout or no, Tobias's existence still shows that trainers are allowed to use legendary Pokemon in official competitions. Not just specially skilled trainers like Brandon can utilize them, but actual regular trainers can as well. Just shows that there are many Trainers Ash has to get through. 

 

The fact he alone had the team to knock out Darkrai, let alone take down it and Latios, shows that Ash was far and away more skilled as a trainer than anyone else at the Lily Valley Conference - possibly even moreso than Tobias himself, who had the raw power to circumvent any skill difference. It was a clear demonstration that "Legendary" is possibly just intimidating in title only.

 

After coming off a win from Paul, after a bitter rivalry specked with loss after loss that lasted the entire saga, I think an uber team blitzkrieg was the only thing that could stop Ash at that point; I think it would have infuriated me more if Ash lost to another standard trainer after seeing Ash's team get over every conceivable obstacle before Tobias.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Crystal King

[turbojet]

Copout or no, Tobias's existence still shows that trainers are allowed to use legendary Pokemon in official competitions. Not just specially skilled trainers like Brandon can utilize them, but actual regular trainers can as well. Just shows that there are many Trainers Ash has to get through. 

 

The fact he alone had the team to knock out Darkrai, let alone take down it and Latios, shows that Ash was far and away more skilled as a trainer than anyone else at the Lily Valley Conference - possibly even moreso than Tobias himself, who had the raw power to circumvent any skill difference. It was a clear demonstration that "Legendary" is possibly just intimidating in title only.

 

After coming off a win from Paul, after a bitter rivalry specked with loss after loss that lasted the entire saga, I think an uber team blitzkrieg was the only thing that could stop Ash at that point; I think it would have infuriated me more if Ash lost to another standard trainer after seeing Ash's team get over every conceivable obstacle before Tobias.

Prior to that, having a legendary was considered taboo because you are literally tampering with the forces of nature. Hence why all everytime someone even tried to capture one, they were stupendously evil. Now I know you might call out Brandon and Nolan for having Articuno and all the Regis, but those aren't the same because Nolan was merely friends with Articuno and Brandon stated that he was planning on releasing his legendaries. Up to that point, it was an implied taboo in the anime universe so just when Tobias was introduced, it was a complete copout. No really. They really have no excuse for Ash not to when one League on account of winning it means he faces the Elite Four and Champion. It makes no sense really since he already has proven to best the top trainers in the world and he has more worldly experience than most of his opponents. It has gotten to the point that he limits himself. He could easily round up a power team of Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Pikachu, Snorlax, and Krookodile. That is just one team he can assemble on the fly.

[SilJeff]

I just find it funny how the trainer who defeated the darkrai (Ash) lost to a Snivy that didn't even have a trainer yet just a couple of episodes later. I realize pikachu once again got sick or hurt (third time in the anime in a row: go to new region, pikachu gets sick/hurt) thanks to the zekrom, but still, there's no way it would have gotten so weak that it loses to the level 5 starter...

Also, what pisses me off about best wishes, is that ash seems to lose everything he learned. Before, when he went to a new region, he'd be the one who taught the new friend, but this time, ASH was the one re-learning that you can't just throw a pokeball without battling to catch a wild pokemon

Edited December 27, 2012 by Mr.Snarf

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Apparently an old character can't be related to unless he is a complete dumb-ass, going by their logic.

[Soniman]

Already at episode 6 of Diamond and Pearl.

 

Paul's character sure is.....different.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Already at episode 6 of Diamond and Pearl.

 

Paul's character sure is.....different.

 

From what I've heard, he ends up being a huge "Creator's Pet."

[Spin Attaxx]

So, you gonna see the Pokémon movies and list your thoughts on them, Scroogiman?

[Soniman]

Yeah, im seeing the movies in chronological order, but ill give my thoughts on each of those when I'm done marathoning the entire anime (just finished watching the Manaphy movie awhile ago).

[SilJeff]

I've always watched the movies when they might have taken place during the anime. For example, the first movie just after the Seafoam Island episodes

[FourCartridge]

I've always watched the movies when they might have taken place during the anime. For example, the first movie just after the Seafoam Island episodes

 

After Seafoam Islands? I thought that took place around Battle of the Badge; There was build-up towards it in the show, especially in the scene where Gary ruses toward Ash and goes "That gym just WTF pwned me with an Uber!" IIRC.

 

The memories are starting to rush back...

[SilJeff]

After Seafoam Islands? I thought that took place around Battle of the Badge; There was build-up towards it in the show, especially in the scene where Gary ruses toward Ash and goes "That gym just WTF pwned me with an Uber!" IIRC.

The memories are starting to rush back...

Well, those scenes are showing the "backstory" of Mewtwo, a lead up or thinking back if you will. The main plot doesn't start till later (when he tries to destroy the world and give what's left to his clones). I like to put it around Seafoam Islands because they start out near the beach (look at the backgrounds when ash gets his letter from Mewtwo), they are close to a port that seems to be close to New Island (If they were in Viridian there wouldn't be a port at all near them, and if they were in Pallet the port would be much farther from New Island than the map on the letter showed), plus according to Bulbapedia, it premiered right after the episode "The Pi-Kahunna", which was the last episode of the Seafoam Islands. Now, I could be wrong, but it's just where I've always put it.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Mr.Snarf

[Soniman]

Oh hey, Diamond and Pearl isn't nearly as despicable as I thought it was when I first saw it. Still has problems though, mostly relating to the same complaints I had with Johto.

 

Also good fucking christ Sinnoh has NO good season opening themes.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Soniman

[Shane]

It's funny how much hate there is over Sinnoh here, on actual Pokémon forums it seems to be the most popular saga, with a lot of hate actually toward Best Wishes. I didn't see a lot of Sinnoh myself, though, but I loved what I did see.

[Spin Attaxx]

One problem with Sinnoh was the pacing - there was a giant year-long gap between Ash's 7th and 8th badges. Another problem was the tendency to recycle plot elements from other seasons (or even the first episode of Sinnoh!).

[-Robin-]

The English Sinnoh openings? Yeah, they're pretty bad.

The Japanese Sinnoh openings though? That's another story. Saikou Everyday in particular is pretty good.

And then the show one-ups it with the instrumental version of it.

It really makes you think you can do damn near anything.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Crystal King