Pokemon Anime General Discussion

[Kuzu]

The openings got pretty fucking bad after Season 8; before they were all "Go out, kick some ass and face tomorrow" and now it's all "Friendship is awesome" I hate it, and it continues into Best Wishes too.

[Soniman]

So I just finished watching the Sinnoh Grand Festival arc, and to tell you the truth they blow both of May's Grand Festivals out of the water, seriously that final matchup between May and Zoey actually had me on edge (something id though Pokemon would never do).

 

And I...I think this is the time I hate more than ever that the writers blatantly refuse to let any main characters win any contest/leagues/tournaments etc, this is the one time where I wish they had made an exception, god dammit.

[turbojet]

So I just finished watching the Sinnoh Grand Festival arc, and to tell you the truth they blow both of May's Grand Festivals out of the water, seriously that final matchup between May and Zoey actually had me on edge (something id though Pokemon would never do).

 

And I...I think this is the time I hate more than ever that the writers blatantly refuse to let any main characters win any contest/leagues/tournaments etc, this is the one time where I wish they had made an exception, god dammit.

I disagree. Dawn was a rookie and really had no business winning the title on her first try. If it were May, I'd agree with you because she is a character with two leagues of experience. Dawn winning on her first try makes her some sort of prodigy which is not good at all since her development as a character hinged on the fact that she was too overconfident in her abilities because she was a daughter of a top-coordinator. She started off worse than May in which she lost a lot of her first contests. And coordinators are a lot more well known than battle trainers for some reason in this universe since Dawn's Buneary ends up being promotion model for a company and May is the top coordinator in Hoen where she is well known. Ash, for whatever the fuck reaon, hardly gets any recognition even after competing and ranking high in so many leagues. 

[Soniman]

You know what, fuck it, now that the glow has worn off I also agree.

 

I would say more, but I'm almost done so ill explain it all (and everything else) then.

 

By the way, Ash's Torterra is this shittiest Pokemon he's ever owned.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Soniman

[Spin Attaxx]

The English Sinnoh openings? Yeah, they're pretty bad.

The Japanese Sinnoh openings though? That's another story. Saikou Everyday in particular is pretty good.

 

Oh fuck you. You have caused me to listen to this all day.

[Soniman]

Finally finished all of Diamond and Pearl, it was quite the long haul. 

 

Sinnoh shares a lot of similarities with Johto. Most notably it being that they both lack a filler season and have the entire arc take place in the region with Ash trying to conquer all the Gyms and enter the league. Unfortunately like Johto, due to the lack of a filler season the entire Arc is insanely padded and drags on for way to long. A notable occurrence was 52 episode long gap between the 7th and 8th Gym Battles. That kind of thing is just unacceptable and not even Johto got that bad (there was a also a 30 something gap between Eterna and Veilstone). Not to mention most of the "Character of the Day" episodes were especially dull this time around with most of them never rising above the usual fare.

 

However, for all the formulaic character episodes it does have an abundance of "Arcs" than span several episodes and is more storyline oriented and focuses on actual recurring characters.

 

The Wallace Cup was a really good one, other than getting the chance at seeing May in action again, we get to see a competition between nearly all of Dawn's rivals as well as some great character interactions between May and Dawn as well as Dawn's friend/rival Zoey. Not to mention the battle between Dawn and May was a treat, even though May technically should've won due to more experience, though I guess it doesn't matter.

 

There was the Snowpoint City/Battle Pyramid/Regigigas/Paul vs Ash arc (I'm just counting that as one big story). Where we get to see the gruff badass Brandon again, as well as a 6 on 6 match between him and Paul where he completely curb stomps him. Paul's brother suggests that Paul battles Ash in a full match, to which he agrees. Though not before Pokemon Hunter J attempts to awaken and hunt down Regigas for profit. Then finally it's Ash vs Paul where Paul wins by a good margin. This arc comprises a lot of backstory on Paul's character, as well as give Ash a rather large blow to his confidence when he loses (though like a typical shoenn hero, he gets over it). I also like it when character interact with one another even though they never actually meet in the games (Brandon and Candice). Not to mention we get a good look at Rainbow Dash's Zoey's backstory, as well as her relationship with Pinkie Pie Candice.

 

There is the Team Galatic arc which has more/less the same build up than Team Magma/Aqua's but has a far more exciting payoff. It essentially follows the games' plot line, and it actually gets....rather dark for Pokemon (hell there's actual implied death to a villain).

 

There was also the "SoulSilver and HeartGold Promotion Tour" more commonly referred to as the Lyra and Khoury Arc. I guess the arc is nice for shipping fans due to Lyra not shutting up about couples and it's also nice for fans of Gen II who want to see their favorite Pokemon and characters. Otherwise it's just okay. Oh yeah, and there was the Summer School and Twinleaf Festival Arcs. Both of these were basically fun little distractions and gave opportunities for the characters to take a load off for awhile, as well as give some screen time to lesser known/recurring characters like Proffesor Rowan, Barry, Conway, and Angie.

 

Now for the characters.

 

Ash still acts like a mentor of sorts to Dawn as he did May, but it's not nearly as prominent as it was back then. Now he's now becoming woefully bland, I wish the writers would try to take Ash in a new direction and have him actually try to mature in more ways than Pokemon battling. The infallible shoenn hero archetype is wearing thin in my honest opinion, and I would personally like to follow a character that would at least attempt to grow (and fucking age).

 

Brock is again hanging out with Ash and co, once again providing his boundless insight and big brother nature serves. I like Brock as much as the next guy, but like a lot of other people by Sinnoh I was pretty tired of his antics, even if it did get an odd chunkle out of me every now and again. Near the end of the series he finally has an epiphany where he finally realizes that maybe constantly hanging out with Ash is a precious waste of his time and a hamper on his dreams in becoming a expert Pokemon breeder doctor so he finally leaves Ash to his own devices for good and finally decides to concentrate on his dream.

 

Like Advanced, Diamond and Pearl starts off with focusing on the latest traveling companion Dawn, unlike May she knows right way what she wants to do, become a top Pokemon Coordinator just like her Mother. Despite my earlier feelings of seeing Dawn as a failed May clone, I think she strikes out on her own as a reasonably different enough character. When May started out as a coordinator she was very unconfident in her abilities, often taking advice from others and not relying on her own skills. Dawn however is quite the opposite, and that actually costed her more than it did May, as Dawn proceeded to lose two contests in a row (and in just the appeal round), which was quite a hard thing to watch. Dawn is quite headstrong and usually doesn't dwell on the past (often using her catchphrase "no need to worry") often looking on the bright side of things, not to mention she's probably the nicest of Ash's female traveling companions, as she often tries her best to help and encourage her friends, and doesn't harp on Ash when he makes certain mistakes in his battles. Not to mention both Ash and Dawn take cues from one another's battle styles to help each other in their respective fields. Overall I like Dawn, about on the same level as May.

 

There is also Paul, Ash's main rival during the series and a great study in contrast. Paul is very different that any of Ash's previous rivals. While previous rivals such as Gary was kind of a jerk and generally rude, you could still tell that he loved his Pokemon and treated them generally well. Paul is nothing like that however, he has a rude and cold demeanor with a pretty ruthless way of catching and training Pokemon. He sees Pokemon as his solders, rather than his friends, a very different style from Ash's. These two frequently butt heads throughout the entire series and it always ended with Paul getting the better of Ash. It really seems like Paul really was Ash's greatest rival despite Gary being the first and most famous. Paul took great care in studying Ash's battle style and strategies while Ash usually relied on raw skill and determination. His development comes from grudgingly accepting Ash as a worthy rival despite the different ways they go about training their Pokemon. I think Paul is a great rival to Ash and a very welcome change of pace to the kind of rivals we usually see given to Ash.

 

Like Hoenn, Ash's Pokemon were pretty well characterized. You have Ash's Turtwig (now Torterra) who (like Bulbasaur) was good at solving disputes. Gligar, who was the big baby of the team until he evolved and developed into a confident fighter. Gible was a fun character, often dense and prone to hitting Piplup with its Draco Meteor. There's also the star Pokemon, Chimchar. He is by far the most developed Pokemon we've seen on this show. He started off as Paul's Pokemon, who was frequently mistreated and abused by him, after becoming emotionally scarred and released y Paul he was transferred to Ash's ownership. That day on Chimchar had to come to grips with his past and learn to become stronger his way (we even get a very emotional scene where Chimchar cries out his frustrations and Ash holds him tenderly) and prove to Paul that he can indeed become a worthy fighter.. This all comes to a head at the Pokemon League where Infernape manages to take down 3 of Paul's Pokemon including his star player Electivire, and in the end, finally earns Paul's respect. That's really good development if I do say so myself.

 

Dawn's Piplup and Mamoswine also deserve a mention. Piplup is utterly adorable and hilarious with his mannerisms (always getting lost, often the butt monkey, gets emotional very easily) with a really good focus episode centering around him not wanting to evolve and instead desires to stay as a Piplup (not wanting to change his personality). Mamoswine mirrors how Charizard first acted towards Ash, usually ignoring Dawn's orders and rather sleep, and also has a fierce temper.

 

Also Brock's Croagunk is friggin awesome.

 

And finally the finales.

 

Dawn's Grand Festival was a really special one to me. It featured a ton of Dawn's rivals that she had met up to that point, not to mention it was the first tournament I seen in the show where a main character actually got to the final round, not to mention the final round battle itself was real spectacular, it actually got me pumped more than a lot of Pokemon battles I've seen.

 

The Pokemon League was great....until the end. What makes the League initially so much better than Hoenn's is that Ash's opponents comprised of rivals that were established long before the League got started (Barry, Nando, Conway, and Paul), rather than rivals that were cooked up just for the sake of Ash having a rival for the League. The battle between Paul and Ash was pretty fantastic, it seemed much more down to the wire and intense than Ash vs Gary.

 

(thanks inferno)

 

 

But....I kind of have to mention the fact that Tobias is kind of the worst think I ever seen on this show. Other than the Indigo League, Ash never lost a tournament looking like a chump. When he lost the Johto League, it was after a full 6 on 6 match that ended on a thrilling battle between Blazekien and Charizard that was down to the wire. The same goes for Hoenn when it was down to Pikachu and a extremely powerful Meowth (though I still find it kind of dumb). This however is a fucking joke, Ash's Team gets completely swept by Tobias' Darkrai and Latios and at almost no point does Ash get the upper hand. Tobias is the embodiment of everything wrong with Ash never winning a League. Tobias had absolutely no build up throughout the series whatsoever and was more of a one note "badass" character introduced just to make the other established characters shit their pants and making up a excuse so that Ash could lose, let's not even go into the fact that this jerk-off somehow managed to get a Darkrai and Latios, I wouldn't be surprised if his other Pokemon were a Zapdos, Heatran, Entei or some other such nonsense. Tobias is nothing but a stupid God-Mode sue that exists for no reason other than making the other trainers (that the watchers actually care about) look weak and pathetic, fuck this guy.

 

A great League tournament otherwise ruined by case of lazy writing.

 

The final goodbye this time around was pretty sad, which is par the course at this point, but this is one time where it gets really sad only second behind the original breakup of Ash, Brock, and Misty. And believe it or not it mostly comes from Piplup and his refusal to say goodbye, he runs away from the others until Pikachu (who also begins crying) and Togekiss find him and they all reel into one big group hug *sniff*, really hits you were it hurts.

 

 

 

Ash and Brock's goodbyes were also pretty sad because this time we know for sure he's not coming back to hang out with Ash. It's the equivalent of an older sibling finally learning to let his/her younger sibling strike out on their own.

 

Overall Opinons? Id say Diamond and Pearl is a.....decent series that frequently migrates into good territory. It's strong points are good episode spanning arcs, interesting battle choreography, animation, and tactics, and a large cast of memorable and likable recurring characters. Bad points are unnecessary bloating, to much time spent in between gyms, utterly dull stand alone episodes (with exceptions) and everything having to do with Tobias.

 

Now here's a few other random statements/opinions I should make.

 

-Candice the Snowpoint City Gym Leader acts exactly like Pinkie Pie, I'm not even kidding. She has a similar voice, gets excited very easily, has odd inflections, throws parties, and loves sweets! It's so similar it's scary. And she's best friends with Zoey, who actually reminds me a lot of Rainbow Dash, total mindfuck.

 

-Cynthia is as amazing, badass and adorable as ever.

 

-Ash's Turtwig started off well, but gradually started to suck more and more as the show went on (or when he evolved), this all cumulated when he evolved into Torterra and ended up NEVER winning a match against anyone. What a piece of shit way to treat my favorite Sinnoh starter.

 

-Good lord Team Rocket really knows how to tug on on your heart strings. Nearly every time they release their Pokemon it's a heartfelt tearfest. The most notable ones being James giving Cacnea to Gardenia and Jessie releasing Dustox to be with her mate. It really gets to you man.

 

-And also in the case of Nando, I think it's a great change up to the formula to have a character that participates in both contest and Pokemon battles.

 

-Barry is both annoying, and funny. Don't know how that works.

 

And with that I can now start the often praised Best Wishes Series, I get good vibes so far. The animation and and general color palette has improved drastically, Team Rocket is becoming a viable threat and..... did Pikachu just lose to a Snivy?

Edited January 4, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

I surprised you liked it as much as you did. I mean I didn't hate Sinnoh per se, but it's by far the weakest season for me. But I'm glad someone liked it. But there are two points I just wanted to touch.

 

There is also Paul, Ash's main rival during the series and a great study in contrast. Paul is very different that any of Ash's previous rivals. While previous rivals such as Gary was kind of a jerk and generally rude, you could still tell that he loved his Pokemon and treated them generally well. Paul is nothing like that however, he has a rude and cold demeanor with a pretty ruthless way of catching and training Pokemon. He sees Pokemon as his solders, rather than his friends, a very different style from Ash's. These two frequently butt heads throughout the entire series and it always ended with Paul getting the better of Ash. It really seems like Paul really was Ash's greatest rival despite Gary being the first and most famous. Paul took great care in studying Ash's battle style and strategies while Ash usually relied on raw skill and determination. His development comes from grudgingly accepting Ash as a worthy rival despite the different ways they go about training their Pokemon. I think Paul is a great rival to Ash and a very welcome change of pace to the kind of rivals we usually see given to Ash.

I do think Paul is a great foil for Ash, but I really think he could have been handled better with that considered. I mean his actions are very clearly cruel and abusive, yet I get the feeling no one ever calls him out on this. I mean his brother is a breeder, yet did nothing to circumvent this behavior? And you don't really don't get the feeling he learns anything, I mean he becomes less of a dick sure, but he takes his loss to Ash pretty neutral and just leaves with an indifferent look. I don't hate Paul, but there some things I wished were handled better.

Like Hoenn, Ash's Pokemon were pretty well characterized. You have Ash's Turtwig (now Torterra) who (like Bulbasaur) was good at solving disputes. Gligar, who was the big baby of the team until he evolved and developed into a confident fighter. Gible was a fun character, often dense and prone to hitting Piplup with its Draco Meteor. There's also the star Pokemon, Chimchar. He is by far the most developed Pokemon we've seen on this show. He started off as Paul's Pokemon, who was frequently mistreated and abused by him, after becoming emotionally scarred and released y Paul he was transferred to Ash's ownership. That day on Chimchar had to come to grips with his past and learn to become stronger his way (we even get a very emotional scene where Chimchar cries out his frustrations and Ash holds him tenderly) and prove to Paul that he can indeed become a worthy fighter.. This all comes to a head at the Pokemon League where Infernape manages to take down 3 of Paul's Pokemon including his star player Electivire, and in the end, finally earns Paul's respect. That's really good development if I do say so myself.

 

Oh Chimchar, he's like the Doubled-edged sword of Sinnoh...On one end, yes his development is by far the most prominent on the show, and it's pretty enjoyable to watch him grow under Ash's tutelage. The downside however is that this came at the expense of almost every one of Ash's Sinnoh team(particularly Torterra). After being caught by Ash, Chimchar was in every gym battle, and took down at least one or two of the gym leader's Pokemon. I mean it makes sense with Byron & Candice what with the type advantage and all, but there's no reason why Ash's other team members couldn't shine.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not criticizing your choice, but things to note is all.

[Soniman]

Yeah Chimchar did indeed kind of stole the spotlight now that I think about it, though I still saw plenty of Ash's other team members get their shinning moments as well.

..

..

Except for Torterra, good lord I still can't get over that.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Soniman

[Yoko/葉子]

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features/arts/T110629002802.htm JP Jessie's voice's daughter likes the show.

[Spin Attaxx]

Hoo boy... they did take Ash in a new direction in BW... but it's a bad direction...

 

Also, do you like running gags that get old really fast? What? You DO? Well then, you're gonna enjoy this!

Edited January 4, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Red]

Watched Giratina and the Sky Warrior today. It was an OK movie. It left a lot of plotholes though. Dialga seemed to disappear at the very beginning and was never seen since, and Palkia wasn't even there at all. I was hoping to see Dialga or Giratina again the credits, but they never appeared...Regigigas seemed to have come from nowhere, as well. I liked Shaymin, although I could hear Tails a lot in it's Sky Forme.

The climax of the movie felt like deja vu to me. It appeared to be very similar to what was in Zoroark. Big machine, powerful Pokemon gets zapped, Pokemon "dies" and then Celebi/Skymin uses a healing move to revive it.

Arceus and the Jewel of Life is next, and then I'll be officially up to date with the current movies until Kyurem VS The Sword of Justice hits cinemas here sometime this year.

[Soniman]

Hoo boy... they did take Ash in a new direction in BW... but it's a bad direction...

Oh yeah they really did. I fucking hate how they are treating Ash like he's some newbie (trying to catch a Pokemon without battling it) despite going toe to toe with friggin legendaries. Sinnoh!Ash may have been on the bland side, but for the most part I got the feeling the he knew what he was doing when it comes to battling, I don't really get that feeling here. Iris constantly calling him a kid is really not helping matters at all either.

 

Also, do you like running gags that get old really fast? What? You DO? Well then, you're gonna enjoy this!

One question. Have you seen me complain once I about Team Rocket yet? The answer is no. If I could handle those guys doing the same exact thing every goddamn episode, I can handle whatever they come up with here.

[Spin Attaxx]

... you're a braver man than I, Soni.

 

(maybe rubbing cheeks helps ward off the insanity...)

 

EDIT: Due to avi changes, this makes no sense now.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[MykonosFan]

This thread really makes me want to marathon the Pokemon series as well, reading Soniman's thoughts on everything makes me think I'd get much more enjoyment out of series I didn't really enjoy (Advanced, Sinnoh) if I just watched it straight through as much as I could. I only ever caught the occasional episode, never watched anything consistently, so maybe that's why nothing ever quite gelled with me. Then again, maybe I just wouldn't enjoy it. 

 

I always thought running through the entire series and watching movies at their generally agreed upon times would be really cool, but it just continues to become a more daunting task. Maybe I'll drop the series and just watch the movies.

[Soniman]

Pokemon is an anime where if I had watched episodes on T.V I probably wouldn't like it nearly as much.

 

I think from marathoning the show I learned to appreciate a lot of things about it that I probably wouldn't through regular viewing, with all the subtle changes/developments/ and what not.

 

However Pokemon is quite a monster, and unless you are relatively committed to watching it (and can get used to the repetition) marathoning the show may not be a good idea. And you really have to be somewhat consistent with it, because if you end up taking a break or something, it can be forever before you can get back into it (like I did after episode 20 of the original series).

[Kuzu]

Well having watched it growing up from the Tender age of 5, it's better seen when you're younger because then you can handle the small doses, when you're older however it's best to just run through it. Personally I'd skip the filler unless it was entertaining.

[Johnny Boy]

So, who's willing to bet Ash is gonna lose yet another League battle?

[buba]

So, who's willing to bet Ash is gonna lose yet another League battle?

 

It's already confirmed.

[turbojet]

He loses to that fucking Riolu kid who he just met prior to the league. You know? The asshole who didn't even know that you needed 8 badges to compete. Motherfucker!

[Soniman]

Ash only wins Leagues if they are filler.

But wait, lets look at the statistics.

Indigo: Top 16

Johto: Top 8

Hoenn: Top 8

Sinnoh: Top 4

Unova: Top 4

It stands to reason that the next League he will either get in the top 2, or finally win it. We can only hope.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Soniman

[turbojet]

Ash only wins Leagues if they are filler.

But wait, lets look at the statistics.

Indigo: Top 16

Johto: Top 8

Hoenn: Top 8

Sinnoh: Top 4

Unova: Top 4

It stands to reason that the next League he will either get in the top 2, or finally win it. We can only hope.

Those last two leagues are ones that he should have won. I'm sorry, but when I'm watching Unova, I can't act like the kid does not have Pokemon back at Oak's that would not absolutely destroy the competition in those events. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Do you think Ash is actually suffering some kind of terminal brain degradation disease that will slowly render him stupid in every aspect and that everyone he has ever met is actually an actor to create the illusion that he is actually doing well in his travels as he is slowly dying?

[Kuzu]

It would explain his sudden noobness despite having years of experience under his belt. Ash was never a particularly interesting character, being a pretty standard Shonen heroes and whatnot, but now it just feels like the writers have no fucking clue what to do with him. His goal "to be a master" is all but forgotten and he just seems to travel for the sake of it nowadays, and despite YEARS having passed he never ages, period and continues to make noobish mistakes. It's so fucking annoying.

[Soniman]

Through Kanto to Sinnoh I still always got the feel that he was improving as a trainer. I mean, I cant imagine Kanto!Ash ever beating someone like Paul or Brandon. BW seems to be deliberately hitting the reset button on everything Ash has learned, making mistakes like trying to catch a Pokemon without injuring it (something he DELIBERATELY scolded Dawn and May for previously doing). For fuck's sake.

[Mega]

I think it's time they just got rid of Ash and picked a new protagonist because the fact that they had to regress him shows they've run out of creative ways to develop him.