Realism in Sonic Games

[Diogenes]

It's funny- even as cartoony as Eggman has always looked, they've never just taken a template of Sonic's body and added the appropriate details. He's always been bigger and had some much different proportions than the rest of the main cast.

Well, yeah, but regardless of style Eggman's meant to have a very different body type than the average Sonic character. You wouldn't see Big with Sonic's proportions because he's...well, big.

... probably because it's implying some unsettling biological similarity we'd have to hedgehogs and echidnas in that particular universe or something.

I dunno, when every other sentient species on the planet seems to share the same basic biology, I think it's strange that humans don't.

On the topic of Elise, I recall this being posted a while back

Okay that's just terrifying. Elise pushed on the uncanny valley before, but that thing's straight at the bottom of the abyss.

[Marcello]

I dunno, sizes have always been varied. We have giant turtles and lions roughly the size of Sonic's shoes.

[Kuzu]

I dunno, sizes have always been varied. We have giant turtles and lions roughly the size of Sonic's shoes.

What?

[Scar]

What?

Those flicky things in SA2 that appear when you kill enemies. There are even tiny ickle gorillas too.

[Blue Blood]

What?

"That turtle is swimming with a block on it's back" and small animals that power robots.

[Kuzu]

Those flicky things in SA2 that appear when you kill enemies. There are even tiny ickle gorillas too.

oh? The animals in Sonic's world vary greatly, in the Adventure games and Sonic X we have the animals you described, but in Unleashed we have more traditional animals like Penguins and Giraffes.

[Nepenthe]

...anyway. I think there's a bit of a blurred line between different cartoon styles. I'm not sure where that line is, but seeing that cartoon Elise really didn't settle right with me. Even with a cartoon-esque visual style, I suppose there must be some essence of realism... I dunno. The idea that Sonic and his friends are dwarfed in comparison to the humans kind of worked, and the flicky animals being dwarfed in comparison to Sonic and friends seemed to work, too. But for some reason, it doesn't necessarily fit with humans.

I can't explain why I feel this way, but it's uncanny.

Once again, my psuedo reasoning would be that the designs are invoking direct physical similarities between humans and hedgehogs which- if we ever saw in real life- would be horrifying as hell. We're too used to seeing proper human proportion that it's buried in our subconscious, and designs like that mess with everything we know and love. Although I admit, that Elise design might actually work in a new world that proceeds to establish those designs as normal.

Well, yeah, but regardless of style Eggman's meant to have a very different body type than the average Sonic character. You wouldn't see Big with Sonic's proportions because he's...well, big.

Exactly. Eggman- both as a heavy-set character and as a human- is supposed to have different proportions than normal Sonic characters. And it goes beyond his body type. His facial structure's different, his head shape's different, he has well-defined shoulders, etc. He helps set some sort of standard for what physical characteristics other humans are to have.

I dunno, when every other sentient species on the planet seems to share the same basic biology, I think it's strange that humans don't.

But you just noted that not every sentient species on the planet shares the same basic biology. The fact that we can see marked differences between Big and Sonic, or even Big and Blaze even though they're both cats, allows for some variation between the different species. I don't find it all that weird either. The Looney Tunes manage to live alongside normally-proportioned humans just fine.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

But you just noted that not every sentient species on the planet shares the same basic biology. The fact that we can see marked differences between Big and Sonic, or even Big and Blaze even though they're both cats, allows for some variation between the different species.

Well, I'm not saying every character would have the same proportions, but average-sized teenage human and average-sized teenage hedgehog would look pretty similar, as would grotesquely fat cat and grotesquely fat human (although Big has much shorter legs and thicker limbs than Eggman, they've got the same big round body and smaller head). It'd have more to do with what kind of character it is than what species they are.

[Nepenthe]

Well, I'm not saying every character would have the same proportions, but average-sized teenage human and average-sized teenage hedgehog would look pretty similar, as would grotesquely fat cat and grotesquely fat human (although Big has much shorter legs and thicker limbs than Eggman, they've got the same big round body and smaller head). It'd have more to do with what kind of character it is than what species they are.

Round body and small head is pretty standard for any creature that's excessively obese though, as is slender body and reasonable head proportion between healthy individuals, which is more or less what we have already. But nonetheless, I still cannot see taking this a step further and initiating human designs like the Elise Avatar up yonder for the sake of consistency. Yeah, even though it is technically consistent with the normal animal characters, it looks and even feels just too damned weird at this point in the series' lifespan. :|

Edited October 23, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

Yeah, even though it is technically consistent with the normal animal characters, it looks and even feels just too damned weird at this point in the series' lifespan. :|

On that much I agree. Even as inconsistent as human designs have been, this would be too big a shift after what we've had.

But, what could have been...

[Nepenthe]

On that much I agree. Even as inconsistent as human designs have been, this would be too big a shift after what we've had.

But, what could have been...

What could've been? This is what Sonic Team was considering normal humans before the series even came into existence.

[Indigo Rush]

Princess Elise of 1991, amirite?

I think that would actually fit right next to an Unleashed human, if modified ever so slightly.

[Kuzu]

How about we switch subjects shall we? This human talk is getting boring.

So architecture, ever since 3D hit the series has more or less adopted a more realistic approach when it comes to their locations.

[Indigo Rush]

How about we switch subjects shall we? This human talk is getting boring.

So architecture, ever since 3D hit the series has more or less adopted a more realistic approach when it comes to their locations.

Eh, the early games had very down-to-earth ruins everywhere, and same can be said of the industrial or city levels, too.

Marble, Aquatic Ruin, Marble Garden, Sandopolis and Sky Sanctuary all had ruins in them that look like they came out of a photograph, although with a little 16-bit coat of gloss. Comparing them to levels like Lost World, Pyramid Cave, Seaside Hill, Dusty Desert, Arid Sands, and Jungle Joyride don't really feel like much of a stretch.

Come to think of it, Sonic Colors is probably the most non-realistic Sonic game out there, save for maybe Aquarium Park.

That's how I see it, anyway.

[Kuzu]

^^YOu know what you're right, Colors is definitely the most out there when it comes to level aesthetics.

[Nepenthe]

Some of the more natural locations weren't all that disconnected from reality either, Angel Island and Hill Top being the ones that stick out the most to me. Even in levels like Mushroom Hill where you have Mario-esque gigantic fungi plaguing the land, lots of backgrounds and textures are firmly rooted in reality, especially foliage and rock, and it gets noticeably more and more realistic the farther you go through the classics, probably as the team got a better handle on the system's graphical capabilities. Aside from detail though, what gave the classics that whimsical feel was color and pattern. The former isn't something we've entirely lost; there's still plenty of stages and games in general that are saturated, bold, and use a lot of primary and secondary color everywhere. However, I can't really remember any 3D game sporting, say, rock that had perfect geometrical, Tetris-like patterns in it.

[Indigo Rush]

Some of the more natural locations weren't all that disconnected from reality either, Angel Island and Hill Top being the ones that stick out the most to me. Even in levels like Mushroom Hill where you have Mario-esque gigantic fungi plaguing the land, lots of backgrounds and textures are firmly rooted in reality, especially foliage and rock, and it gets noticeably more and more realistic the farther you go through the classics, probably as the team got a better handle on the system's graphical capabilities. Aside from detail though, what gave the classics that whimsical feel was color and pattern. The former isn't something we've entirely lost; there's still plenty of stages and games in general that are saturated, bold, and use a lot of primary and secondary color everywhere. However, I can't really remember any 3D game sporting, say, rock that had perfect geometrical, Tetris-like patterns in it.

Besides Heroes and Colors, of course. :]

The handheld games actually were good about keeping it that way, now that I think about it. Even the Rivals series.

[Nepenthe]

Besides Heroes and Colors, of course. :]

The handheld games actually were good about keeping it that way, now that I think about it. Even the Rivals series.

Sonic Heroes was certainly colorful (perhaps too colorful) but its natural landscapes and far backgrounds were still very representational. Same with Colors, funnily enough. I admit Heroes got away with the checkerboard pattern for the first few stages, but not anything particularly out there for the 3D games like Hill Top's blue rock. It's quite trippy, innit?

I honestly can't comment on the newer 2D games, and I actually have Rivals 2. xD

[Kuzu]

Rivals 2 more or less is in between the surrealistic vs. Realistic aspects of the series like the Chaos Inferno zone.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Your post implied that this double standerd was a bad thing. Mine does the opposite. Why? Because without it the game is very likely going to have clashing styles and look bad.

Edited October 23, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Indigo Rush]

I honestly can't comment on the newer 2D games, and I actually have Rivals 2. xD

[Nepenthe]

My folks never saw it fit to bless me with any Nintendo handheld after the GBC, and I'm too lazy to emulate. =P

But holy hell at that first level in Advance 2! The grass is in bacon strips, the flowers are somehow underground, and the background foliage is just flat planes. Classically-reminiscient? A little, but at the same time, that's very unique.

[Indigo Rush]

My folks never saw it fit to bless me with any Nintendo handheld after the GBC, and I'm too lazy to emulate. =P

But holy hell at that first level in Advance 2! The grass is in bacon strips, the flowers are somehow underground, and the background foliage is just flat planes. Classically-reminiscient? A little, but at the same time, that's very unique.

...

Watch playthroughs of these games.

NOW.

You have been dreadfully deprived.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I swear Techno Base was one of the most paranoia inducing stages for me because you didn't know when you would touch the ground or die in a bottomless pit when things looked fishy.

Only to have Sky Canyon and Egg Utopia top it...and then a few stages in Adv3 like Chaos Angel (which has awesome music).

But damn if they didn't look good. And the way this guy plays the game makes me want to emulate the game.

Edited October 23, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Nepenthe]

Of course I haven't played it, but I'm surprised at how Techno Base's colors and forms didn't just meld together into one big field of neon what-the-fuckery when I was watching it. I guess if not for the static foreground tiles, I'd have been completely lost concerning Sonic's orientation and the level layout, but I could follow and see everything despite the rave the stage was having. The colors feel so right, indeed.