Realism in Sonic Games

[midori]

Did everybody forget about Shahra, Merlina and Erazor? They are all human-like and look much MUCH better than any other humans. They are not as realistic as people in 06, but not as Pixar-esqe as those in Unleashed (both styles look horrid to me). They are just perfect.

[Kuzu]

I always thought that made Eggman look more unique. How he looks different from the other humans. Even though Sonic X isn't canon, the first ep. showed that Eggman and sonic were from a different world and were transported here along with other landmarks with chaos control. I think that was Sonic Teams way of explaining why Adventure had a more realistic world.

That theory gets thrown out of the window when you realize that his Grandfather is from the Real World.

[lounge]

That theory gets thrown out of the window when you realize that his Grandfather is from the Real World.

Really? Where did they say that?

[Kuzu]

Really? Where did they say that?

There was an episode of Sonic X that said he was originally in the real world.

[midori]

There was an episode of Sonic X that said he was originally in the real world.

Sonic X isn't canon.

[Kuzu]

Sonic X isn't canon.

Sonic X is what he was referring to.

[lounge]

Sonic X isn't canon, but I think the original writer Maekawa, may have added in a few more details in sonic x that he didn't in SA2.... or it could just be that the animation company's writers screwed up without consulting ST about minor details. But anyway, do you know which episode they said that?

[Kuzu]

Sonic X isn't canon, but I think the original writer Maekawa, may have added in a few more details in sonic x that he didn't in SA2.... or it could just be that the animation company's writers screwed up without consulting ST about minor details. But anyway, do you know which episode they said that?

The first episode of the Shadow arc, episode 33.

[midori]

I love it how people ignore my posts to continue slowly drifting off-topic.

... Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today. ^^;; But seriously, what do you think about Shahra, Merlina or Erazor's designs?

[Rally the Cheetah]

I think they fit in just perfect as well. Like you said a sorta happy middle ground. The trick is to be able to make a dozen others like them. Shahra and Merlina were pretty much the same person just different hair and clothing (which made sense because they played the same role of summoning Sonic to their world). But, as someone mentioned earlier, one of the nice things about the Unleashed design is that the characters had a lot of personality and were unique. So simply duplicating Shahra/Merlina over and over for girl character isn't going to cut it. The question then becomes how much can they distort that kind of design before it does start to look like one end of the spectrum or another.

That's the one fall points I have with the anime style, a lot of the character comes from crazy hair styles and clothing. Just strip characters of that and many models are just clones of other ones. For example lets look at some of Hayao Miyazaki's works. Now I love this guys movies don't get me wrong but look at Kiki, then Sheeta, then Shizuku, then Arrietty, etc. etc. They're all almost the exact same. Often the characters you end up liking the most in the movies are the ones that stray from the formula. That's one of the reasons I love the movie Spirited way. They characters seemed to have more variety from the norm. Least the important ones did.Princess Mononoke also had quite a bit of variety though San is pretty much a Kiki/Sheeta/ etc. clone.

As for the subject of Eggman fitting in, well I feel he should sorta be allowed to be the most cartoony because of the reason I mentioned earlier, characters that stray from the norm are likely to be remembered the most. And with his moustache and famous egg shape he stands out pretty well in most crowds.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But seriously, what do you think about Shahra, Merlina or Erazor's designs?

They're not very realistic, but not too cartoony. They happen to actually hold balance in regards to human proportions, and I think we should see more designs like that. However, it does bring the question of whether something is too cartoony or too real.

Compare this:

with these people:

And Elise:

And then ask where the balance is? A lot of people are cool with Shahra, most people dislike Elise, but the Unleashed humans are where opinions start to split off.

[Nepenthe]

Human designs should generally ascribe to the specific aesthetic of the games they're in but also possess some understandable human anatomy unlike Eggman. That's basically the artistic precedent the series set up from the very beginning, even with that early Madonna picture, and I don't feel comfortable taking their designs in such a direction that suddenly every bipedal character has to have that sphere-on-noodles design that the main cast does. Again, there's nothing wrong with some differentiation in your design elements.

[batson]

I also always felt that having Eggman be at least slighlty more cartoony than his fellow humans makes him stand out more, in a good way. Even while he is of course biologically just plain human, him having a cartoonier design than other humans make him come of as sort of a "mix" between a regular human and a "cartoon character" of the Sonic and co type. One particular detail that makes him seem that way to me is the fact that he wears the Mickey Mouse gloves that all the anthros in the series wear.

It's like, there almost appears to be two different "lifeworlds" on Sonic's planet, one where regular humans live their lives in ways that is mostly similar to our own, and one where anthros/"cartoony characters" live their lives in fantastical ways involving rings, robots, checkered hills, superpowers and "good guys vs bad guys" scenarios. And Eggman, despite his species, belongs to the latter lifeworld. Like, if the Sonic series were a superhero series, Sonic and the other anthros would be superheroes, Eggman would be a supervillain, and the other humans would be neither.

...well that's my own "fanon" point of view anyway, but yeah, that's how i instinctively saw it during the Adventure-era.

EDIT: TV tropes just guided me to the phenomenon im trying to decribe: The other humans beside Eggman are Muggles. From the sites descripition: "Ordinary People. Those who are not special, like the favored of the plot. Mundane folk who are only aware of their own small section of reality". Eggman is the one of the extremely few non-Muggle humans in the Sonic universe.

Edited October 18, 2011 by batson

[Speederino]

I also always felt that having Eggman be at least slighlty more cartoony than his fellow humans makes him stand out more, in a good way. Even while he is of course biologically just plain human, him having a cartoonier design than other humans make him come of as sort of a "mix" between a regular human and a "cartoon character" of the Sonic and co type. One particular detail that makes him seem that way to me is the fact that he wears the Mickey Mouse gloves that all the anthros in the series wear.

That reminds me- Eggman's character model in Sonic 2006. To me, that is a PERFECT example of why super-realistic character models don't blend well with Sonic.

I freakin' hate this design. The golden nipple-studs, the cartoon-mustache growing out of a small head (In the game, you can also make out every single strand of hair, as if they were really trying to make that thing 'real'), the thin legs attached to the morbidly obese prego-belly that, in my opinion, makes his proportions look misaligned and/or uneven. Eggman's design works great as a cartoon, as nothing about him looks remotely realistic, nor is he supposed to. It's like taking someone like Homer Simpson and rendering him in real time. It would just look-

AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD!!!

Okay...maybe 'realistic' Eggman isn't quite *that* bad. But still.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Speederino

[Phos]

Easy way: Don't have humans.

There are a few possibilities, one that I find appealing would maybe be to have humans appear similar to people from classic mangas such as Cyborg 009 and Astroboy.

[LoseR]

They're not very realistic, but not too cartoony. They happen to actually hold balance in regards to human proportions, and I think we should see more designs like that. However, it does bring the question of whether something is too cartoony or too real.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Wooly-san

[Rinzler]

I really like the Unleashed style people, but if they're taking an important role in the story I think they should have about Shahra/Merlinna level of realism.

Also: @CSS Thank you for reminding me just how beautiful Shahra is.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Easy way: Don't have humans.

Edited October 19, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[midori]

I don't really like the segregation of normal people and those with access to the Chaos Emeralds and such. It takes away a lot form the escapism. Besides, if I remember right, Eggman used to sell EX Gear to gain some funds. He wouldn't be able to earn enough money if the only people using this gear were a handful of animals. If there were more humans with some level of uncommon abilities, it would also explain things like the loop-de-loops in cities, Spring Festivals and other oddities. It's simply unbelievable that so little people in such a bizzarre world are different from those we live among.

[Nepenthe]

Why would the minimal numbers of super-powered beings take away from the escapism? There's loads of fiction where Earth is home to a significantly small number of special people with powers and such. Western superhero fiction and manga- especially manga- thrives off of this trope. Not 1 in every 4 people on Earth is a Kryptonian or a Saiyan. Why does it break suspension of disbelief for the Sonic series to be privy to the same treatment?

[midori]

Why would the minimal numbers of super-powered beings take away from the escapism? There's loads of fiction where Earth is home to a significantly small number of special people with powers and such. Western superhero fiction and manga- especially manga- thrives off of this trope. Not 1 in every 4 people on Earth is a Kryptonian or a Saiyan. Why does it break suspension of disbelief for the Sonic series to be privy to the same treatment?

But it would be more escapistic if everybody was strange.

[Blue Blood]

Then we wouldn't have Eggman, because he's also a human.

Not that I'm agreeing with the no humans suggestion, but that's a silly reason. Eggman may well be a human, but he's been there since day one and is kinda on a different level.

I don't really like the segregation of normal people and those with access to the Chaos Emeralds and such. It takes away a lot form the escapism. Besides, if I remember right, Eggman used to sell EX Gear to gain some funds. He wouldn't be able to earn enough money if the only people using this gear were a handful of animals. If there were more humans with some level of uncommon abilities, it would also explain things like the loop-de-loops in cities, Spring Festivals and other oddities. It's simply unbelievable that so little people in such a bizzarre world are different from those we live among.

That seems like a really lame suggestion. Things like loops and such are part of the creative license the gameplay allows. As Nepenthe said, it's basically a super heroworld. There's the everyday world with some characters with certain eccentricities (be they evil geniuses or giant, anthropomorphic animals). You either get rid of the surrounding the world or you get rid or you get rid of Sonic, Eggman and co.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Blue Blood

[midori]

Not that I'm agreeing with the no humans suggestion, but that's a silly reason. Eggman may well be a human, but he's been there since day one and is kinda on a different level.

That seems like a really lame suggestion. Things like loops and such are part of the creative license the gameplay allows. As Nepenthe said, it's basically a super hear world. There's the everyday world with some characters with certain eccentricities (be they evil geniuses or giant, anthropomorphic animals). You either get hid of the surrounding the world or you get rid or you get rid of Sonic, Eggman and co.

That seems like a really lame excuse. So loops are there for no reason and we can't argue with that? Also, your last sentence makes no sense at all. It's not like a few humans with special abilities would completely change the series.

[Blue Blood]

That seems like a really lame excuse. So loops are there for no reason and we can't argue with that? Also, your last sentence makes no sense at all. It's not like a few humans with special abilities would completely change the series.

Loops are there solely for the purpose of level design, just like spikes, enemies, rings and springs. There is absolutely no way you can argue that. They exist to make the game fun. It's the creative license. It's not a stab at reality at all. There won't be any form of loop, dash pad and floating platform in the city of Apotos (don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying it's a real place). For the sake of gameplay all that kind of jazz is added in.

My last sentence (typos now fix'd ) is pretty much how it is. You can't take fault with loops in cities, rings (randomly scattered on the floor everywhere) being used as currency or anything else because everything like that for the sake of the gameplay. Humans are basically the normal people in the world, whereas the animals are the special and unique ones. Again, it's a super hero world AND a game world. Both of those factors bring huge amounts of leniency to how the world is built.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Blue Blood

[midori]

Loops are there solely for the purpose of level design, just like spikes, enemies, rings and springs. There is absolutely no way you can argue that. They exist to make the game fun. It's the creative license. It's not a stab at reality at all. There won't be any form of loop, dash pad and floating platform in the city of Apotos (don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying it's a real place). For the sake of gameplay all that kind of jazz is added in.

My last sentence (typos now fix'd ) is pretty much how it is. You can't take fault with loops in cities, rings (randomly scattered on the floor everywhere) being used as currency or anything else because everything like that for the sake of the gameplay. Humans are basically the normal people in the world, whereas the animals are the special and unique ones. Again, it's a super hero world AND a game world. Both of those factors bring huge amounts of leniency to how the world is built.