General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Wonderful 101 is only $24 at Bestbuy and Amazon.

 

Probably going to pick it up now at this price.

Ooooo, realy? then I am going to have to pick it up myself, I can afford that XD

 

darn it out of stock, think I might just run by my local best buy and see if they have it at the 28$ price thats still a good deal

[Dobkeratops]

3DS is definitely underperforming due to the mobile space and probably won't reach the level of massive success their GBA and NDS line experiences, but it's very much a viable endeavour.

 

They might try going with a mix between portable and home console going forwards, instead of two separate boxes, i.e.: slightly beefed up portable machine with native TV and gamepad support. That'd be interesting.

 

Tho I'd take anything but phones. So many good ideas or franchises already being casualized and gameplay-castrated by those awful touchscreen controls. Ughhh.

 

 

On the positive side, it at least shows that Nintendo realizes the Wii U is in deep trouble. Maybe we can expect a bigger push. More game announcements, new features, new marketing push, etc?

 

[...]

Hopefully they'll try to fix all of this in their panic mode.

 

Going by past panic modes, you can expect rushed games and cut content. And that was with the Gamecube which was making some money.

 

Now if you excuse me, I have a phone call to make

 

 

yes i've waited months to post a robotnik image

 

and it was totally worth it

[Tornado]

.... How is it even possible to overshoot the mark by that much? They're not going to make a single percentage of that target. No, they're going for an operating loss of hundreds of millions. Everyone needs to be fired.

It's not terribly far removed from how much they overestimated GameCube sales…

[Patticus]

Reggie's a marketing man, he knows what it takes to get a console to sell, so I can't comprehend the lack of marketing for this system. The fact that the Wii U store tours here in the US did so well must surely indicate that they need to do this all day, every day, in a shit ton of localities to back up a solid marketing campaign that, as of right now, doesn't exist.

 

The console has a fine library of games and is really quite fun and well made, but without consumer awareness it'll never go anywhere. I didn't care for the sterile Wii ads, but at least they were out there making an impact for years on end. Why the complete shutdown on that front, Nintendo? Think the Wii name alone is going to attract a buzz? 'Cause it hasn't.

[SuperLink]

The lazy third party attitude hasn't changed much since then either..

 

I personally don't think that Nintendo going for a powerful competitor like the others is worth it unless it can be done cheaply. I know a lot of people are half-expecting Nintendo to stop supporting Wii U and release a console with PS4/One-level power in the next few years, but I just don't think that'll happen nor do I think it'll be a smart move. I mean, if Nintendo are struggling to break even on already-outdated hardware, I can only see them losing tons of money on powerful hardware. Sony and MS have other funds to fall back on, and even then MS' Xbox division isn't looked on favourably by MS. Supporting a powerful system with all the third party support of competitors would probably lose Nintendo even more money, powerful systems are expensive to mass-produce and I think the main reason Sony and MS can afford to do this is because they have so many other successful departments.

 

Not to mention, releasing a console mid-gen has only ever been bad news in the past, obviously it's not directly comparable to SEGA but why release a new system when there's no interest for new systems? That period over two years of OOH NEW MACHINES is a once in a half-decade thing, Nintendo would be better off trying to make what they can out of the Wii U situation than trying to bring out the Wii U successor in a few years.. because it'll be quickly outdated and 1-up'd, it would put Nintendo in a reaaally bad position, strategically and competitively.

 

The Wii U is failing because it has yet to capture mainstream attention in any meaningful way. It's either seen as an add-on (because of the name and because the marketing focus is on the controller with very little focus on the console itself- the console itself needs a memorable noticeable aesthetic) or people don't get the appeal.

 

The tablet-like controller should be such an easy sell in today's market, I'm convinced that Nintendo just haven't been marketing it the right way so far. They should market its family-factor, but also multimedia, strong internet capabilities, and greatly improve its digital system to be more affordable and user-friendly, and make more of an effort to market the "you can use it even when the TV is being used!" thing more cleverly.

 

Nintendo's in a bad situation and I'm sure they're working hard on what's next, but they need to pull their heads out of their moneybags before those moneybags end up in the garbage truck. Their Virtual Console is easily the biggest "easy fix" feature they have, it's got the biggest potential of any digital gaming platform there is and yet they're content to trickle out two games per month from a measly two platforms at ridiculously outdated prices. The phone market succeeds on having games be cheap as heck.

 

Release NES games at £1/2, SNES games at £3/4, and introduce far more consoles and sought after games, people will be far more willing to buy than they are now and the money will begin to make a quicker profit and help give the Wii U a killer feature it sorely needs to make it a more appealing purchase - Nintendo's gaming history, affordable, on one system. It baffles me that they've yet to recognise this considering how rarely people hype Virtual Console atm. That kind of thing is very marketable, investors constantly go on about "Mario and Pokémon on phones!" because people want it and keep buying imitators, if Nintendo offered similarly good deals for TONS of famous old games on their own platforms, maybe their own platforms would generate more digital buzz and buzz overall.

 

Long term fixes = buying more third party support and dropping the price again (and a general re-release and re-brand like the PS3 got), it's not gonna make the thing the most successful console ever but it'll help it grow and grow towards the end of its quiet life.

[Sami]

We have numbers from GAF's leakers and by extrapolating PR - 1. 3DS - ? 2. XB1 - 908K 3. PS4 - ~860K 4. 360 - 643K 5. WIU - 481K 6. PS3 - 299K 7. WII 8. PSV - ~95k Not exact, but should be a good ballpark. Things still don't look good for the Wii U. Nintendo's also suffering a 4.7% loss in revenue compared to 2012.

[Conando]

I do have to wonder why the 3DS sales have to be so astronomically high, though. Is it just ridiculous overconfidence, because it's not like the thing is bombing by any means.

[VO.SUPER]

We saw the Wii U situation coming a mile away. Let's hope Nintendo see this as a chAnce to step up production and marketing. And maybe Iwata will see the worth in restructuring their poor NoA division. If anything that's the market that needs to be saved.

But their overshot prediction for the 3DS was silly. The bloody thing gets an NPD of a mil and they manage to overshoot that. Cocky imbeciles... Good to see certain things haven't changed.

Their next consoles and handhelds will surely drop the Wii and DS names for sure.

[Carbo]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/445870/nintendo-thinking-about-a-new-business-structure/

"We cannot continue a business without winning," Iwata said on Friday during a press conference attended by Bloomberg. "We must take a skeptical approach whether we can still simply make game players, offer them in the same way as in the past for 20,000 yen or 30,000 yen, and sell titles for a couple of thousand yen each.

"We are thinking about a new business structure," Iwata added. "Given the expansion of smart devices, we are naturally studying how smart devices can be used to grow the game-player business. It's not as simple as enabling Mario to move on a smartphone."

Investors and analysts have urged Nintendo to broaden its horizons and boost profits by embracing smartphones on multiple occasions over the past few years, but Iwata has always insisted that his responsibility is to plan for the long term, not simply to make a quick buck.

[Your Vest Friend]

They had to lower their 3DS estimate because it was doing so well? Did you mean it's doing worse than they expected?

 

Just to clear up, I was disagreeing with his point by bringing up the decrease.  

[VO.SUPER]

I've never fully objected to the idea of putting games on smartphones tablets as long as done creatively. Who knows, maybe Nintendo will work out a special deal with a tablet company to work on this tech in a way that suits their desires.

All the same, Nintendo's going to do it in a weird way that will keep them out of the competition, like usual.

[SuperLink]

That's.. interesting, and a tiny bit worrying but not much.

 

What I get from it is, Nintendo is going to be looking at how they can use the popularity of smartphones and do something interesting or different with it? At the very least I'll hear them out because I'd rather they do that than just chuck Mario on smartphones. They seem fully intent on continuing to compete in the video game industry which is relieving.

[Sami]

Iwata's now insisting that he won't resign.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/445803/i-wont-resign-says-iwata/

Sigh. I think his resignation would do some genuine good, to be honest, but whatever. Hopefully the failures of both the 3DS and Wii U to perform as expected will be the humbling he needs to turn things around next time.

[PSI Wind]

Iwata's now insisting that he won't resign.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/445803/i-wont-resign-says-iwata/

Sigh. I think his resignation would do some genuine good, to be honest, but whatever. Hopefully the failures of both the 3DS and Wii U to perform as expected will be the humbling he needs to turn things around next time.

If the NUMBER 1 BEST SELLING GAMING PLATFORM IN THE US OF 2013 is a failure even if it wasn't as well as Nintendo predicted, than I don't know what is.

[Sami]

It doesn't matter how well it sold - it failed to meet expectations. That's a bad thing no matter how you try to spin it.

[PSI Wind]

It doesn't matter how well it sold - it failed to meet expectations. That's a bad thing no matter how you try to spin it.

This is why I don't like expectations.

[Carbo]

Iwata's now insisting that he won't resign.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/445803/i-wont-resign-says-iwata/

Sigh. I think his resignation would do some genuine good, to be honest, but whatever. Hopefully the failures of both the 3DS and Wii U to perform as expected will be the humbling he needs to turn things around next time.

I can't say I agree that Iwata should resign. David Jaffe already went through this notion rather well. You don't get runaway successes like the Wii and DS, as well as a quality offering, unless you allow a person like Iwata to fail from time to time and learn from what didn't work the first time around. Sometimes when thinking long term failure has to be valued.

And even if Iwata resigns, who do you propose should take up the mantle? The board of directors is almost entirely shaped by him and if someone follows him, it's going to be someone with largely similar ideals.

This is why I don't like expectations.

Tough shit. Investors and companies do.

[Candescence]

I sincerely doubt Nintendo would make a straight-up smartphone game, nobody there would be satisfied with working without actual button input. I expect Nintendo to do something completely crazy with this idea.

 

Edit: Not to mention companies who hit runaway successes can still severely fuck up the second time around - Sony with the PS3 (being an unmitigated disaster for most of its run and being a horrifying loss for that period as well), Microsoft with every other version of Windows (8 is doing so poorly that there's rumors that Microsoft are already working on Windows 9), among others. Humans are fallible, especially in groups, what matters is if they learn from their mistakes.

[SuperLink]

Iwata's now insisting that he won't resign.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/445803/i-wont-resign-says-iwata/

Sigh. I think his resignation would do some genuine good, to be honest, but whatever. Hopefully the failures of both the 3DS and Wii U to perform as expected will be the humbling he needs to turn things around next time.

Nintendo's biggest successes and riches in their 100+ year history as a company were under Iwata's name. Nintendo became one of the richest companies of the last decade and arguably reshaped the main face of interactive entertainment technology (for better or worse) under Iwata.

 

After the previous president's multiple failures, it's not really fair to pin everything wrong on Iwata after one big failure. Iwata's shown more than anyone in the industry how capable he is of turning around a company's bad situation, it would do Nintendo good to let him prove it again.

 

I think when people assume Iwata is all that's wrong with Nintendo, they're focusing too much on the now and not Nintendo's track record. N64, GC, Virtual Boy, N64DD, CDi, PlayStation, mistreatment of second and third parties, those were all the previous President and those are the days people ironically harken for even though they simply wouldn't stand up with that work ethic in modern gaming.

 

Wii, DS, 3DS, that's all Iwata. He's a brilliant businessman more often than not, and I personally think he deserves at least a few fuck ups to show us what else he has up his sleeve.

[Sami]

I can't say I agree that Iwata should resign. David Jaffe already went through this notion rather well. You don't get runaway successes like the Wii and DS, as well as a quality offering, unless you allow a person like Iwata to fail from time to time and learn from what didn't work the first time around. Sometimes when thinking long term failure has to be valued.

From a business perspective, I think the "line" has been crossed with the 3DS and Wii U. A failure like the GameCube I can see as being a failure to value, as it did still manage I make a modest profit over time, but I just don't believe the Wii U can be so easily forgiven. It's sales are reaching record lows, it's being sold at a loss, and Iwata's still not providing a clear roadmap for the future beyond Smash and Kart (though he might give something at the investor's meeting, to be fair).

Twice in a row he fumbled the launch of a major product - both are underperforming, too. The company's seeing it's first yearly fiscal losses in decades.

I absolutely understand your point and I agree to some extent, but I just think a failure as catastrophic as the Wii U is a bit too hard to brush under the rug.

And even if Iwata resigns, who do you propose should take up the mantle? The board of directors is almost entirely shaped by him and if someone follows him, it's going to be someone with largely similar ideals.

Yeah, that's the problem. I'm honestly of the opinion that the whole upper management of the company needs shuffling - they're stuck in the past and need some new blood to guide the company down a more forward-thinking path.

It's unfortunate that it won't happen, in my opinion. I sincerely hope Iwata doesn't bring the whole ship down with him.

Nintendo's biggest successes and riches in their 100+ year history as a company were under Iwata's name. Nintendo became one of the richest companies of the last decade and arguably reshaped the main face of interactive entertainment technology (for better or worse) under Iwata.

After the previous president's multiple failures, it's not really fair to pin everything wrong on Iwata after one big failure. Iwata's shown more than anyone in the industry how capable he is of turning around a company's bad situation, it would do Nintendo good to let him prove it again.

I think when people assume Iwata is all that's wrong with Nintendo, they're focusing too much on the now and not Nintendo's track record. N64, GC, Virtual Boy, N64DD, CDi, PlayStation, mistreatment of second and third parties, those were all the previous President and those are the days people ironically harken for even though they simply wouldn't stand up with that work ethic in modern gaming.

Wii, DS, 3DS, that's all Iwata. He's a brilliant businessman more often than not, and I personally think he deserves at least a few fuck ups to show us what else he has up his sleeve.

Ken Kutaragi has seen his fair share of success as well, and still got the boot after losing touch with what brought him success in the first place.

This is the guy who designed the first three PlayStations himself, built the entire brand from the ground up, and led the PS2 to become one of the most ludicrously successful products in the entire electronics market.

Ultimately though, I think his departure was great for the PlayStation brand. Regardless of past success, when the captain grows out of touch and arrogant I personally think keeping them around will do more harm than good.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. While I do believe a change in management and perspective can do Nintendo good in the business sense, I personally don't particularly care for Iwata's philosophies to begin with, and didn't find the Wii to be very appealing to me.

[SuperLink]

The 3DS isn't a "failure" though. It didn't meet Nintendo's lofty goals but it's still treading much water in a market a lot of people thought was doomed now.

 

Twice in a row he fumbled the launch of a major product - both are underperforming, too. The company's seeing it's first yearly fiscal losses in decades.

Sony did that too with the PS3 and Vita though (both of which were far more expensive losses too and over a longer period of time)? The PS3 went on to do well as the 3DS is doing but the Vita didn't have a strong launch despite coming after Sony should have learnt from mistakes.

 

Iwata turned Nintendo around from being almost totally irrelevant in the home console industry to shaking up a whole lot of everything once, it'd be fair to let him go for it again when his track record is good so far.

 

EDIT: Kutaragi had a lot more time in the industry and had his own blunders to deal with, plus the PS3 did cause Sony a far bigger loss than any Nintendo loss. I still think Iwata can prove he has what it takes to turn the situation around, if it turns out he's already past it after his short-ass tenure then I'll agree.

[Candescence]

While I obviously don't mind more people in Nintendo doing more forward thinking, I'd rather they do it in a direction that's unique to Nintendo and not the 'inferior PCs in disguise' route that the PS4 and XBone are taking.

 

The industry itself is seeing a gradual shift, with the good possibility of a relatively smaller second crash happening, and Valve throwing their lot in by introducing a brand of "living-room PCs" in the form of Steam Machines. This is a very interesting time to be a gamer.

[Sami]

Fair enough, I suppose. Though I also think it has to be taken into account that Nintendo doesn't have the fallbacks that Sony does in the case of failure. If Nintendo lost as much on the Wii U as Sony did with the PS3 they'd probably go bankrupt, haha.

I just don't personally believe the man has much left to offer that could really turn things around. Especially if his current strategy (as shown by the 3DS and Wii U) is underpowered hardware with a gimmick that might catch lightning in a bottle.

We'll see, I suppose. Here's hoping the next generation is an exciting one.

While I obviously don't mind more people in Nintendo doing more forward thinking, I'd rather they do it in a direction that's unique to Nintendo and not the 'inferior PCs in disguise' route that the PS4 and XBone are taking.

The industry itself is seeing a gradual shift, with the good possibility of a relatively smaller second crash happening, and Valve throwing their lot in by introducing a brand of "living-room PCs" in the form of Steam Machines. This is a very interesting time to be a gamer.

I don't see how that route would be so bad for Nintendo, to be honest. Microsoft was able to rush the Xbox One out shortly after the PS4 (it's very likely they wouldn't have released it when they did if Sony hadn't forced their hand), so I can only hope that Nintendo does what Sony did this generation - wait a few years, ask all sorts of developers what they want to develop for, hire some outside engineers to build as powerful and efficient hardware as possible, and put serious work and effort into repairing third party relations.

The GameCube didn't fail because it used modern technology, after all. It failed because it came after the PS2 had already started to dominate the market, and didn't receive substantial third party support ok account of being hard to develop for (not enough buttons on the controller and not enough space on the mini-DVDs).

I think if Nintendo's next console is powerful enough and built well enough to receive automatic third party support much like the Xbox One seems to be, then coupled with their usual stellar first party lineup they could be in a very strong position to win.

[Autosaver]

Or maybe Nintendo could make their own phone/tablet.

 

Think about it. A phone with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, etc on it. That might sell it.

[SuperLink]

Fair enough, I suppose. Though I also think it has to be taken into account that Nintendo doesn't have the fallbacks that Sony does in the case of failure. If Nintendo lost as much on the Wii U as Sony did with the PS3 they'd probably go bankrupt, haha.

I just don't personally believe the man has much left to offer that could really turn things around. Especially if his current strategy (as shown by the 3DS and Wii U) is underpowered hardware with a gimmick that might catch lightning in a bottle.

We'll see, I suppose. Here's hoping the next generation is an exciting one.

That's why I think Nintendo don't do powerhouses, the last time they tried (Gamecube) was super bad news for them and powerhouses are getting more and more difficult to price competitively, especially for companies with nothing else to fall back on.

 

If Nintendo made a system as powerful as the PS4 or XOne and it didn't get the sales or third party support because of market suckage or lack of communication with third parties, I think there would be serious reason to worry - it's part of why Nintendo uses dated but solid power nowadays, it's a bit of a failsafe.

 

His current strategy was, I believe, ride the wave of success with such arrogance that they fail to notice the shifts in the western gamer populace especially. Too busy huddled up in Japan counting money to realise they no longer get the western industry especially until it's too late. The fact that the Wii U genuinely has no consistent target audience makes me even more sure of this, almost like they had a good idea, but literally no good strategy to go with it besides "Wii's popular it'll be a piece of pie see you at the Ritz or something tah tah"

 

Reality checks more often than not bring out the best in industry competitors, we've seen it in Sony recently, and even MS to a lesser extent, it's time for Nintendo to do it again (and they've done it many times before).

 

EDIT: Powerful console = losing money quicker if it fails, which is again why I think Nintendo don't do dat. As much as a lot of fans would like to see Nintendo doing state of the art visuals and power and stuff, it's probably not financially viable. Like you said, Gamecube didn't fail because it was a powerhouse, but because it was a powerhouse it hurt Nintendo so much more. Being a powerhouse didn't protect it from failure at all.