General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Nepenthe]

I don't think they should abandon the console now, because the only thing that's going to do is destroy even more trust that consumers and devs have with Nintendo at the current moment and set back their next console even more regardless of whether it's more motion-controlled gimmicks or a traditional console. At the same time, the Wii U's probably going to struggle immensely for the remainder of its lifespan unless they can somehow simultaneously foster a culture that will be slightly more inviting to third party devs, develop interesting shit for the console: IPs people have been begging for a return for like Star Fox, F-Zero, and Metroid, new high-quality IPs that run the gamut of demographics, and give proper perks to the existing userbase and continue patching and developing the user experience. And price slashes (yes, even more of those). Basically, they need to atone for their sins.

[Tornado]

I'm going to be blunt: Nintendo could never run a proper MMO with the way they handle Online features. Your game account would be tied to your system, there would be server crashes, there would be no form of voice communication (not a necessity, but still very nice), there would be lag up the ass.

 

It would be a fucking mess.

 

It would be marketed as innovative, family friendly, example of them striking out on their own to fit their own strengths.

 

 

 

 

It would also be a PSO clone.

[Solkia]

I'm not saying they should make a new console. That's 90's Sega-level shit.

 

I'm not a business man, but Nintendo hasn't been the gaming market juggernaut ever since Sony entered the scene (which they contributed to, ironically enough). They can't rely on their brand name, zany ideas, and IPs alone anymore.

[Conando]

Not quite sure Solkia meant that they should pull a SEGA. I think he was more just pessimistic about anything Nintendo doing being able to turn the Wii U into a big success. I see the main thought being that they just carry on with it, put out some nice games for the fans, and completely rethink their strategy for the next generation.

[VO.SUPER]

I'm not saying they should make a new console. That's 90's Sega-level shit.

I'm not a business man, but Nintendo hasn't been the gaming market juggernaut ever since Sony entered the scene (which they contributed to, ironically enough). They can't rely on their brand name, zany ideas, and IPs alone anymore.

So the original Wii brand doesn't exist? But I'm guessing you don't count that because you weren't interested.

[Tornado]

So the original Wii brand doesn't exist? But I'm guessing you don't count that because you weren't interested.

 

No, it doesn't. As hot as it was in 2008, the Wii brand contributes nothing but consumer confusion in 2014.

[Solkia]

do we really need to go over why the Wii was a success again? The Wii was a success because Nintendo decided to go outside the box and appeal to more people than just gamers.

[Kaabiitorori]

As long as Nintendo don't prematurely abandon the Wii U, the console is NOT considered a failure. They have got games to release in 2014, unannounced titles for the year plus more in development, and they are in a hiring spree to expand their development teams which will translate in more games for the Wii U. So no, I don't think it's too late for the console to recover itself; they have a hell of a lot of work to do, but a turn around into profitable terms can be achieved.

For those who think they need to drop support of the console in order to work on a brand new system, just an example: remember what Bernie Stolar had to say about the Saturn being discontinued in favour to the Dreamcast?

"The Saturn is not our [sEGA's] future."

The day Iwata, Reggie or anyone else at Nintendo says something similar about the Wii U prematurely, I can imagine many people being really pissed off and feeling abandoned after their purchase. Much akin to what happened to SEGA and the Saturn, which only contributed on their fall (alongside other factors, not just the Saturn itself). So pulling a SEGA is not precisely Nintendo's solution.

[VO.SUPER]

No, it doesn't. As hot as it was in 2008, the Wii brand contributes nothing but consumer confusion in 2014.

It still exists as a memory of Nintendo managing to set the world on fire and it showed them as a juggernaut player in the game, while staying out of the Sony MS struggle. It should be acknowledged as an achievement.

[azoo]

I get what Solkia's getting at now, but I'm moreso just pointing at the discussion of a new console in general. It's pretty silly.

[Jolt_TH]

But the Wii also stigmatised the "For Kids" mentality that a lot of people had, it wasn't that powerful compared to the competitors and the only reason it really took off was the low price point and Wii Fit

[Solkia]

And it was. Clap clap clap.

 

But we aren't talking about the Wii, we're talking about the Wii U. A system which has been outright stated to be more focused on the gaming audience than the Wii was.

[Tornado]

Bernie Stolar was a complete douchebag, though. Reggie hasn't spent his entire time personally sabotaging the Wii U like Stolar did with the Saturn after Sega of Japan ousted Tom Kalinske.

 

 

 

 

Reggie hasn't really done much of anything in the past three years, for that matter.

 

 

 

 

It still exists as a memory of Nintendo managing to set the world on fire and it showed them as a juggernaut player in the game, while staying out of the Sony MS struggle. It should be acknowledged as an achievement.

Insofar as an achievement could be chalked up to solely a result of intended consequences of decisions rather than an extremely lucky one which has been met with complete failure after attempting to directly copy it can be, yes.

 

Note the difference between the 3DS copying many of the DS' ideas and gaining the similarly wide acceptance its predecessor had, and the Wii U copying the Wii and being ignored from virtually day one.

[VO.SUPER]

And it was. Clap clap clap.

But we aren't talking about the Wii, we're talking about the Wii U. A system which has been outright stated to be more focused on the gaming audience than the Wii was.

I was responding to:

but Nintendo hasn't been the gaming market juggernaut ever since Sony entered the scene

And how that wasn't true.

[Jolt_TH]

But he is right , they weren't a GAMING juggernaut, many people bought the system for Wii Fit + Wii Fit+ not for games, sure parents may have had kids who asked for games on their shiny new Nintendo Fitness Machine, but I can count multiple people I know alone who's parents just bought it for that

If you ask most people about the Wii they will lost likely say something about Wii Fit or Wii Sports, POSSIBLY Mario Galaxy if your lucky

[Solkia]

Except.. it is. The N64 bombed, The Gamecube bombed even harder, The Wii, while selling well, wasn't what gamers were looking for, and now the Wii U is bombing too.

 

Until Sony entered the scene, Nintendo was the market. And even then they only really dominated in the west.

[Dejimon11]

Except.. it is. The N64 bombed, The Gamecube bombed even harder, The Wii, while selling well, wasn't what gamers were looking for, and now the Wii U is bombing too.

 

Until Sony entered the scene, Nintendo was the market. And even then they only really dominated in the west.

The N64 bombed? What?

[VO.SUPER]

Feh. You have a point.

The N64 bombed? What?

It only managed to sell the equivalent of the SNES while the PS1 expended the market. And he N64 was ridiculously expensive machine to make games for.

[Solkia]

Not to the extent that the Gamecube did, but it was the only console that still used Cartridges, which developers hated, and was when Nintendo started losing third-party support.

 

Not nearly as much as the Saturn, but the Saturn was in a whole other league.

[Tornado]

The N64 bombed? What?

 

It was delayed so long from its original date that the PSX's momentum by the time it came out killed what little chance it had at being a direct competitor; and Nintendo actively went against third party developers as it was on sale (to the point where it was the catalyst that caused many of them to tell Nintendo to fuck off with the Gamecube). And that's not even considering cartridges.

[Autosaver]

There's a difference between bleeding out your entire company and selling shit (aka SEGA) versus not selling as well as competition. I would hardly equate the word "bombed" with N64. You know, the system that brought us awesome games like GoldenEye and Mario 64.

[Solkia]

The Saturn was such a clusterfuck that saying it bombed would be being generous :U

 

Essentially the market at that time was Sony vs Nintendo, with Sega just being that one kid that tried to fit in.

[Tornado]

Compare what Nintendo (and it has to be said, the rest of the industry after Sega fucked everything up at E3 in 1995) assumed was going to happen (and, for that matter, what was happening in the first few months the system was out) to how the system was being received by the time the Dreamcast came out. The PSX sold and sold and sold and sold. The N64 had two really good years, and a third where where there was one final, major push; then completely collapsed before the following generation started. That's literally the opposite of what people expected cira-1995.

 

 

 

And Mario 64 was a launch game, and Goldeneye wasn't too far removed from one either.

[azoo]

Nintendo doesn't even need to be the #1 best selling console out there to be very successful this generation, at least in my eyes. PS1 beat out N64 financially but you can't walk two steps without hearing about the legacy the N64 left behind. If they could make it fit that position without losing steam, they have it good.

 

I just want Nintendo to up their game. Make a less confusing, streamlined dashboard. Build all potentially MP games with online in mind, patch the games without it to have it, and center the entire online community on Miiverse around it. Stop building games with Wiimotes or even Gamepads in mind, focus on the Pro Controller first and everything else second. Shell out loads of AAA+ games with lots of variety and fan favorites. Build bigger hard drives. Etc.

 

And none of those things I listed sounded like they couldn't be done with what they have now.

 

They launched this console prematurely, yes, but Xbox One and PS4 just came around and they have much more time to iron out their mistakes with this machine because of it. Nintendo's got one hell of a chance (with Iwata actually acknowledging the problem), but the only question is: will they take it?

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

But the pro controller is a separate item from the console... But okay you can drop the gamepad in future Wii Us and replace the controller. However what about the previous games like Nintendoland where you have to use the gamepad? Sure Nintendo can patch their games but it's anybody's guess for the 3rd party games. But yeah anyway, let me be the first to say I hate the gamepad. It's too big and the benefits of using a 2nd screen are so limited. Replacing the gamepad if your current one is broken will be a massive pain if out of warranty. But if they somehow do act on this, this is a first in Nintendo's history. Should they do it? Yes. That gamepad IMO is the worst controller I've used in a long time. The pro one is much better and I don't have to worry about finding ways to replace the controller if it breaks.