General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[8ther]

I'm all for innovation and whatnot but for the Wii U's successor i think Nintendo should focus less on gimmicks more on competing with MS and Sony, Had the N64 and GameCube weren't hindered by cartridges(N64) or mini-disks(GCN) i'm sure they've would've gotten better third-party support than they did, the Wii and Wii U doesn't have these problems but the fact that their underpowered compared to their competitors costed them third-party support. If Nintendo were sherd their family-friendly image, step up the way they advertise, and make a console that rivals Sony's in power, third-party devs would actually be more attracted to their brand, with their first-party games and good third-party support Nintendo has the potential to become a juggernaut in the console wars.

 

But sadly unless Iwata stops living in the past and embrace the modern gaming industry, odds are next gen we're going to get another underpowered console with some sort of gimmick controller.

[Sami]

Or maybe Nintendo could make their own phone/tablet.

Think about it. A phone with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, etc on it. That might sell it.

I'd buy one, depending on the specs.

That's why I think Nintendo don't do powerhouses, the last time they tried (Gamecube) was super bad news for them and powerhouses are getting more and more difficult to price competitively, especially for companies with nothing else to fall back on.

If Nintendo made a system as powerful as the PS4 or XOne and it didn't get the sales or third party support because of market suckage or lack of communication with third parties, I think there would be serious reason to worry - it's part of why Nintendo uses dated but solid power nowadays, it's a bit of a failsafe.

His current strategy was, I believe, ride the wave of success with such arrogance that they fail to notice the shifts in the western gamer populace especially. Too busy huddled up in Japan counting money to realise they no longer get the western industry especially until it's too late. The fact that the Wii U genuinely has no consistent target audience makes me even more sure of this, almost like they had a good idea, but literally no good strategy to go with it besides "Wii's popular it'll be a piece of pie see you at the Ritz or something tah tah"

Reality checks more often than not bring out the best in industry competitors, we've seen it in Sony recently, and even MS to a lesser extent, it's time for Nintendo to do it again (and they've done it many times before).

EDIT: Powerful console = losing money quicker if it fails, which is again why I think Nintendo don't do dat. As much as a lot of fans would like to see Nintendo doing state of the art visuals and power and stuff, it's probably not financially viable. Like you said, Gamecube didn't fail because it was a powerhouse, but because it was a powerhouse it hurt Nintendo so much more. Being a powerhouse didn't protect it from failure at all.

True, which is why they need to be smart. Wii U is vastly underpowered when compared to it's competition, and yet that didn't save it from being a money eater. Hell, the more powerful GameCube was much less of a problem for them financially then the Wii U is proving to be.

I don't see how it could fail. If they make sure third parties will make games for it by coming to them and asking for their input during development of the system, then they should be fine.

No bullshit proprietary formats. No weird controllers that make their consoles hard to port to. No outdated technology. It's that simple. Just make the console third parties want to develop for, back it up with some stellar first party support, and watch the money come in. Just look at how well it worked for the PS4.

[SuperLink]

True, which is why they need to be smart. Wii U is vastly underpowered when compared to it's competition, and yet that didn't save it from being a money eater. Hell, the more powerful GameCube was much less of a problem for them financially then the Wii U is proving to be.

I don't see how it could fail. If they make sure third parties will make games for it by coming to them and asking for their input during development of the system, then they should be fine.

No bullshit proprietary formats. No weird controllers that make their consoles hard to port to. No outdated technology. It's that simple. Just make the console third parties want to develop for, back it up with some stellar first party support, and watch the money come in. Just look at how well it worked for the PS4.

I'm not totally sure but I think the Gamecube was a pretty huge problem for them as evidenced by this huge article http://www.dromble.com/2014/01/07/dolphin-tale-story-of-gamecube/ I think they made pretty big losses with it all throughout its life, possibly cancelled out by the cheap-in-comparison and successful GBA. The Wii U is a money eater because of the "risk-taker" controller element, besides that it's very affordable tech which is why they did it.

 

The GC did have weird discs but that was far from being its biggest problem when it came to support, people just didn't want to support it because Nintendo wasn't interested in getting their support as far as I know. Third party support can be expensive, especially I'm assuming for companies who have little faith in you or your practises.. with an industry already housing two powerhouses with undeniable third party strengths, there's practically no room or demand for a third powerhouse console which is the same as the others just with Nintendo games, it'd be more likely to lead to a market crash and I personally think it's better for not too many systems to do the same thing. In gen6 they were all so similar that only PS2 saw success while GC and Xbox were seen as a " does what PS2 do but not PS2 so what's the point" by the masses.

 

In order for a console to have its place on the market it needs to offer something its competitors don't offer, and that needs to be more than just first party games, because the majority of consumers don't actively participate in first-party politics and don't realise the reasons why some games aren't on all consoles (it's why you still get so many people who say "I'll wait for Mario to come to PlayStation" when given the option to buy a Nintendo system and etc). XBO is a multimedia device, PS4 is a dedicated gaming device, those are easy angles to communicate and as a result they'll easily find their way to their audiences.

 

Long story short I don't think Nintendo can survive following the same angle as its competitors at least until it proves to third parties that third parties can benefit from working with them, otherwise the only money going anywhere is the money leaving Nintendo's pocket on expensive ventures that may not really get them anywhere that the others haven't already occupied. The Wii U is proof that what originally intends to have killer third party support may not last and may infact end up with third parties laughing at Nintendo even more.

[Candescence]

I don't see how that route would be so bad for Nintendo, to be honest. Microsoft was able to rush the Xbox One out shortly after the PS4 (it's very likely they wouldn't have released it when they did if Sony hadn't forced their hand), so I can only hope that Nintendo does what Sony did this generation - wait a few years, ask all sorts of developers what they want to develop for, hire some outside engineers to build as powerful and efficient hardware as possible, and put serious work and effort into repairing third party relations.

The GameCube didn't fail because it used modern technology, after all. It failed because it came after the PS2 had already started to dominate the market, and didn't receive substantial third party support ok account of being hard to develop for (not enough buttons on the controller and not enough space on the mini-DVDs).

I think if Nintendo's next console is powerful enough and built well enough to receive automatic third party support much like the Xbox One seems to be, then coupled with their usual stellar first party lineup they could be in a very strong position to win.

If they were to go with that sort of route, I think they should still at least look for a cost-effective method of distinguishing themselves from the other two. Say what you will about the Wii, but at least it did something unique and rather novel. The Wii U gamepad is also a pretty great idea (traditional controls with a touch screen as a bonus, off-TV play, asymmetrical multiplayer, etc), but the system itself was marketed rather poorly, and once again third parties are mostly being lazy with using the touch screen. I do like to have unique, interesting reasons to buy hardware that isn't shared by competitors - right now, the PS4 and the XBone could basically be summarized as "why should I bother with these consoles when I can just stick to my PC and get most of what they've got?"

 

On the flipside, there is an infuriating problem with better hardware - like it or not, the HD generations have enabled some very, very bad habits for developers and publishers that are incredibly unsustainable - budgets are spiraling out of control, and nobody is taking steps to remedy this. More than a hundred dev studios have shut down last gen for a reason. Sometimes, technical restrictions can be an absolute boon for creativity and finding new ways to achieve results of great quality more efficiently and more cost-effectively. Not to mention studio bloat is resulting in the ridiculous amount of studio mismanagement and inefficiency across most of of the industry, which is also a huge contributor towards the budget rises. Someone needs to be the grown-up at some point and say, "guys, we really need to cut this shit out and start doing things differently."

 

it'd be more likely to lead to a crash

Hah, the "AAA" games industry doesn't need Nintendo's help to drive straight off a cliff, it's already on the road towards it and completely clueless about it. Even one of the two envies of most of the industry, CoD, is declining in sales.

[SilentDoom]

I do have to wonder why the 3DS sales have to be so astronomically high, though. Is it just ridiculous overconfidence, because it's not like the thing is bombing by any means.

 

 

No but seriously, it's remarkable how many people bought a 3DS just for this game.  Even though this came out 3 months ago, the momentum's still carrying pretty well.

[KrazyBean]

 

No but seriously, it's remarkable how many people bought a 3DS just for this game.  Even though this came out 3 months ago, the momentum's still carrying pretty well.

 

A main Pokemon game on Wii U. The system will be saved and a half.

[Jolt_TH]

I dunno, everyone says Pokemon on consoles would be amazing but I can't really see it. I can spend soo much longer on a handheld than a console because I'm not tied down by lack of a TV, distance and whatnot. Pokemon is a pretty lengthy game, especially with leving and such, I see it being much more successful on a handheld, which it is

[SuperLink]

People said they'd buy a console Pokémon game, people said Pokémon would sell Nintendo home consoles
 

 
(not to mention the novelty of a 3D Pokémon RPG is now something people don't even need a home console to experience)
 
EDIT: Iwata certainly feeling the need to stand his ground http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=220619

I have said before during earnings releases that I do not have to step down to take responsibility upon failure to meet profit goals.

 

If he's able to say that then I guess the board of directors haven't motioned against it yet. That could change after stock plummets and stuff, but he seems pretty confident that he's going to carry out his responsibility which means the board is probably behind him too.

[Brad]

I know we don't need consoles for 3D Pokemon anymore, but I can say that the idea of a full HD mainstream Pokemon adventure on a home console would increase my hype levels through the roof. 

[SuperLink]

It would do the same for me too, but I don't think it'd have mainstream appeal (it probably wouldn't sell the Wii U)

[Brad]

I'm actually trying to think what it could provide exclusively on a console in all honestly. I'd guess it'd bring an even more dynamic battle system to feast your eyes on, a large expansive world and story, advanced online capabilities... most of these have already been covered with X and Y but I guess a HD game would be a buff on all fronts? It'd need some selling points, and for the love of god don't bring back Shadow Pokemon.

 

And more to the topic of Nintendo's sales, despite 3DS falling from its high margins, I don't think I'd be able to call it a failure with a straight face. It's just too bad Wii U is taking such a hit. They really need to get their shit together. 

[Autosaver]

It would do the same for me too, but I don't think it'd have mainstream appeal (it probably wouldn't sell the Wii U)

A full scale Pokemon (MMORPG?) wouldn't sell on the Wii U?????

 

WUT

[Dejimon11]

How about a Pokemon fighting game like tekken and street fighter etc

[SuperLink]

I don't think the 3DS is a failure either, Nintendo may have overestimated the demand for handheld consoles but there clearly is still enough demand to make a successful profit.

 

A full scale Pokemon (MMORPG?) wouldn't sell on the Wii U?????

 

WUT

It would, but one won't be made in the first place because an MMORPG as an inherent concept is not child-friendly in the least and would be impossible to make child friendly without censoring all communication and losing the respect of their older fans who are too dumb to realise/respect that Nintendo have a reputation to protect.

 

@Dejimon: Would be cool, but it wouldn't sell hugely because fighting games don't have a very broad appeal.

[RK64]

Its a shame the Wii U is selling that bad...to expect only 2.8m systems sold when you thought it was going to sell 9m systems is really disapointing .

 

I really think the reason the Wii U is not selling is because the 3ds makes it redundant to many people. Think about it, what games are going to "save" the Wii U? Mario Brothers U, Mario 3d World, a Zelda remake, and Mario Kart. Now what saved the 3ds when it was struggling? Why it was Mario 3d Land, a Orcerena of Time Remake, and Mario Kart 7 (along with Kid Icarus and other original software that was released this year and last year). Even then, some Wii U games have 3ds versions that are out/coming like Lost World and Smash Brothers.....

 

I think that casual buyers are just confused with Nintendo's software output, making them think that the Wii U just has the same games they already own; I can pitcutre a kid walking into a store with his mom, wanting Mario 3d World and his mother asking "Don't you mean the DS game I bought you?" and he says "No, its the Wii U one", with the mom confusing responding "What? You have a Wii already son!", with the son frustratingly responding "Its a new system with a touch screen controller", with the mom asking confusingly "...You mean another controller for the Wii? You have those already" and the like........

 

Nintendo is confusing their potential buyers with their new games looking like the old ones they already made and even though they are very different, they wont know that .

[Solkia]

I don't think the 3DS is a failure either, Nintendo may have overestimated the demand for handheld consoles but there clearly is still enough demand to make a successful profit.

 

It would, but one won't be made in the first place because an MMORPG as an inherent concept is not child-friendly in the least and would be impossible to make child friendly without censoring all communication and losing the respect of their older fans who are too dumb to realise/respect that Nintendo have a reputation to protect.

 

@Dejimon: Would be cool, but it wouldn't sell hugely because fighting games don't have a very broad appeal.

 

Club Penguin.

 

Honestly a Pokemon MMO sounds dumb. Atlus already tried this shit with Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine and it was awful.

[Sami]

It would, but one won't be made in the first place because an MMORPG as an inherent concept is not child-friendly in the least and would be impossible to make child friendly without censoring all communication and losing the respect of their older fans who are too dumb to realise/respect that Nintendo have a reputation to protect.

Why let their reputation as the "kiddy console" manufacturer hold them back? No, seriously. Why? They don't produce any games purely for adults, they skip out on certain online standards in attempts to stay "kid friendly", and so on. I just don't understand why.

It's a different world we live in these days - kids have access to Facebook and Twitter. Kids access the internet on their iPods and PCs on a daily basis. Hell, we have a nine year old on this very forum, don't we?

Nintendo is absolutely capable of providing experiences for everyone, and by that I mean separate experiences. Within the same quarter the PS3 got The Last of Us, Puppeteer, and Ratchet and Clank. The PS4 gets Killzone, Knack, and inFamous. Microsoft has Dead Rising, their Kinect stuff, and Crimson Dragon.

Why is it that Nintendo is the only one that's afraid to actually have a range for their consumers? What T rated games do they have? What M rated games? Why is it that kids are getting PS4's without the online being compromised, whereas with Nintendo any MMORPG has to "think of the children"?

Nintendo isn't just a developer, they're a publisher and platform holder. It's like Disney turning down projects like Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Wars, and Marvel because they have a reputation as the guys who make princess movies.

All this being said, I am happy to see that they're at least improving on the online front. I don't have enough experience with Miiverse to really come up with a conclusion on it, but I believe features like cross-game chat are still out? I'd like to see those added in the future, along with whatever else is missing. If I may digress for a moment, stuff like not having a unified account system in 2014 is just embarrassing, and there's absolutely no excuse for it. As far as "protecting little Timmy" goes, I don't know enough about the Nintendo Network to know what else is missing.

tl;dr - if there's demand for something, make it. If it's not okay for kids to play, give it a T or M rating. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark did Nintendo more good than harm, and they need to go back to varied development like that.

[SuperLink]

Club Penguin.

Club Penguin doesn't have a continued dedicated fanbase of older gamers constantly criticising it for censorship and calling it ridiculous for not only keeping them in mind when making latest entry in kids game.

 

When there are so people calling Miiverse ridiculous for banning swearing and penis drawings, a ~censored~ Pokémon MMO would cause UNPRECEDENTED levels of self-entitled butthurt.

 

EDIT: Dude I'm not saying Nintendo can't make an MMO I'm saying they can't make a Pokémon MMO, don't twist me words! Nintendo are perfectly capable of making more mature games if they want to.

 

But jfc I don't think you realise how important Pokémon's reputation is, Nintendo don't want SHOCKING NEW POKÉMON GAME INSULTS KIDS on their doorstep when it's a widely accepted fact that Pokémon is made with kids in mind and by far the primary buyers of Pokémon are kids!

 

It'd be like having a Mario game advertising it like a regular Mario game but it has an 18+ rating and is full of swearing and blood, do you think all consumers notice the age rating? Do you think all consumers question "oh it's just Mario, it can't be bad! My kid loves Mario! I've seen him play Mario!" When you market something to kids you have to be foolproof because parental complaints are going to ruin a reputation faster than anything.

 

I'd love for Nintendo to make an MMO, don't get me wrong! But you can't take a kids series and pull the rug out from under the kids legs into bloodstained-spikey-hell-land unless you don't value the popularity and reputation of your most popular franchise??????

[Sami]

Its a shame the Wii U is selling that bad...to expect only 2.8m systems sold when you thought it was going to sell 9m systems is really disapointing .

I really think the reason the Wii U is not selling is because the 3ds makes it redundant to many people. Think about it, what games are going to "save" the Wii U? Mario Brothers U, Mario 3d World, a Zelda remake, and Mario Kart. Now what saved the 3ds when it was struggling? Why it was Mario 3d Land, a Orcerena of Time Remake, and Mario Kart 7 (along with Kid Icarus and other original software that was released this year and last year). Even then, some Wii U games have 3ds versions that are out/coming like Lost World and Smash Brothers.....

I think that casual buyers are just confused with Nintendo's software output, making them think that the Wii U just has the same games they already own; I can pitcutre a kid walking into a store with his mom, wanting Mario 3d World and his mother asking "Don't you mean the DS game I bought you?" and he says "No, its the Wii U one", with the mom confusing responding "What? You have a Wii already son!", with the son frustratingly responding "Its a new system with a touch screen controller", with the mom asking confusingly "...You mean another controller for the Wii? You have those already" and the like........

Nintendo is confusing their potential buyers with their new games looking like the old ones they already made and even though they are very different, they wont know that .

An aggressive price cut and lack of meaningful competition saved the 3DS, along with new and compelling software. I don't think it's even possible for the Wii U to turn around at this point after the other two are already on the verge of overshooting it. They'll just have to try harder next time.

[RK64]

An aggressive price cut and lack of meaningful competition saved the 3DS, along with new and compelling software. I don't think it's even possible for the Wii U to turn around at this point after the other two are already on the verge of overshooting it. They'll just have to try harder next time.

 

The saddest part is that the Wii U had a few aces in the hole; a full year before the PS4/X1 came out, tons of money from the DS's and Wii's success to put into a powerful new piece of hardware, ample time to get tons of great exclusive software out, and a chance to fix the toxic relations with third party developers/publishers. But all of that was blown into nothing....and now we are left with a white box that only plays Nintendo games and nothing else....what a shame man .

[Sami]

Club Penguin doesn't have a continued dedicated fanbase of older gamers constantly criticising it for censorship and calling it ridiculous for not only keeping them in mind when making latest entry in kids game. When there are so people calling Miiverse ridiculous for banning swearing and penis drawings, a ~censored~ Pokémon MMO would cause UNPRECEDENTED levels of self-entitled butthurt. EDIT: Dude I'm not saying Nintendo can't make an MMO I'm saying they can't make a Pokémon MMO, don't twist me words! Nintendo are perfectly capable of making more mature games if they want to. But jfc I don't think you realise how important Pokémon's reputation is, Nintendo don't want SHOCKING NEW POKÉMON GAME INSULTS KIDS on their doorstep when it's a widely accepted fact that Pokémon is made with kids in mind and by far the primary buyers of Pokémon are kids! It'd be like having a Mario game advertising it like a regular Mario game but it has an 18+ rating and is full of swearing and blood, do you think all consumers notice the age rating? Do you think all consumers question "oh it's just Mario, it can't be bad! My kid loves Mario! I've seen him play Mario!" When you market something to kids you have to be foolproof because parental complaints are going to ruin a reputation faster than anything. I'd love for Nintendo to make an MMO, don't get me wrong! But you can't take a kids series and pull the rug out from under the kids legs into bloodstained-spikey-hell-land unless you don't value the popularity and reputation of your most popular franchise??????

I respectfully disagree. All it takes is some censorship and a competent degree of parental controls. Ask "how old are you?" at the beginning of the game or something and base the restrictions off of that. Market it as a Pokemon game all about connectivity and community interaction and have a warning label on the box. Who cares if Fox News has bullshit headlines about it? They did the same thing with the DS' picchat or whatever it was called, and that didn't impact sales in the slightest. What about the kids playing Call of Duty with strangers and the news stories about that? Nope, still the most financially franchise in the entire games industry. I personally don't think "think of the children" is a good excuse to avoid an idea that has great potential. It's a shame that a game that has always lent itself exceedingly well to community interaction is being held back by a silly fear of consumer backlash. Parental controls will exist for those who want to enable them. The rest of us can have fun with the game we've been asking for for almost a decade.

[SuperLink]

Agree to disagree then. Call of Duty is not a kids game, kids buy it and any parent who complains is quickly pointed to the obvious "this shit ain't for kids". Pokémon on the other hand is historically for kids and has a huuuuge userbase, I'm willing to wager, far huger than the Pictochat userbase ever was lmao.

 

Parental complaints about their child being upset after an awkward encounter on PokéMMO would be something Nintendo would be better off without, I can't see it working without putting a permanent dent in Pokémon's reputation far bigger than any of the baseless "satanic" or "animal abuse" stuff, this actually has a base to stand on.

 

In an industry where Nintendo is already struggling to keep its audiences for its franchises (Mario isn't the system seller they thought him to be), the last thing they'd want to risk is a "Pokémon is no longer safe for kids!!" scare that has an actual basis.

[Solkia]

Considering some of the messages I see on the Passerby section of Pokemon XY's online system, I'm not sure why language is a problem. No one seems to have a problem with it now, not even Nintendo.

[Jolt_TH]

Why couldn't they make it an online game like Discoid said where it filters by age/parental controls, but also have the option to be online, offline or online only to friends?

[SuperLink]

It wouldn't be an MMO if you had the option to appear offline-

 

Something more like Monster Hunter might work for Pokémon.