General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Sami]

Kids like Nintendo stuff generally. Now they have an excuse to buy Nintendo stuff. It could work.

 

That's a fair point, I suppose. We'll see.

[Chronozoah]

I'm not taking issue with you disliking DOOM, but what makes it look pitiful? That game ran of the modem equivalent of nothing computer wise. That's more or less all a 386 and time correct graphics card could pump out.

 

It doesn't look amazing, but IMO it's still a solid game unlike some other early 3d ones.

It's horrifically outdated visuals and obnoxious pixelation. I'm not evaluating it relative to it's time, I'm evaluating it now, and how it holds up against modern shooters (as did the poster I replied to), in order to fight against the notion that it in any way holds up well.

[Your Vest Friend]

The problem with the bundle is that the only ones who are really into it enough to pay that sort of money are adult collectors. They'd likely just buy the bundle and then pass on the Wii U itself into the used market. It'd get the hardware numbers up, but wouldn't aid the software that much. 

Edited November 13, 2013 by VEDJ-F

[Sami]

It's horrifically outdated visuals and obnoxious pixelation. I'm not evaluating it relative to it's time, I'm evaluating it now, and how it holds up against modern shooters (as did the poster I replied to), in order to fight against the notion that it in any way holds up well.

I don't see how that matters, though. It isn't fair to compare it to modern shooters and it isn't a good judgment on the game at all because you have to have perspective.

It's like if I were to say Xenoblade was an ugly game because Final Fantasy XIII had better graphics and will still look much better in ten years.

[Detective Shadzter]

I was just browsing SSMB on the Wii U GamePad during Nintendo Direct and afterwards when I exited the browser I got a notification with the eShop icon and a balloon giving me Wii Sports Club. It's now been added on my system without even asking me if I WANT to download it. 

[Barry the Nomad]

Yeah, i spotted Sports Club on my menu a few days ago. I think it's because of spotpass or something?

[Thrippa]

Yeah, they added that a-ways back.  You can opt out of it if you don't want, otherwise it'll download free stuff/demos that 'they' think you'll like.

[Detective Shadzter]

Yeah, i spotted Sports Club on my menu a few days ago. I think it's because of spotpass or something?

SpotPass is cool, but it doesn't mean Nintendo should force games on you with it. At least I can delete it, unlike that stupid SingStar game icon on the PS3 XMB. 

[Chronozoah]

I don't see how that matters, though. It isn't fair to compare it to modern shooters and it isn't a good judgment on the game at all because you have to have perspective.

I used the same parameters for comparison that Shirou did. I merely responded to a comparison that had already been made and offered a different perspective. I have perspective - I've just not somehow been deluded into thinking that DOOM has aged well visually and stands up to today's standards.

It's like if I were to say Xenoblade was an ugly game because Final Fantasy XIII had better graphics and will still look much better in ten years.

I was speaking present-tense, judging how well DOOM holds up today, as opposed to how well it used to hold up, whereas your scenario expressly evaluates how Xenoblade was. Evaluation of visual quality and associated standards differ depending on whether you evaluate how they hold up now, and how they held up then. I'm doing the former, and in your comparison; you're doing the latter. Different parameters result in an inaccurate comparison. 

Edited November 13, 2013 by Heinous Creature

[Autosaver]

You know Spotpass gives you a warning that it will download games. You also know that Nintendo announced that they would download it. Disable it if you don't want it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Solkia]

It's like if I were to say Xenoblade was an ugly game because Final Fantasy XIII had better graphics and will still look much better in ten years.

 

But XIII is fucking ugly. Adventure on the Atari 2600 was more pleasent to look at.

[Detective Shadzter]

You know Spotpass gives you a warning that it will download games. You also know that Nintendo announced that they would download it. Disable it if you don't want it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't remember it mentioning games when I set the system up, but my memory's not good anyway. Maybe it said software and I expected it to be applications and not full games. 

[Silencer226]

But XIII is fucking ugly. Adventure on the Atari 2600 was more pleasent to look at.

Exaggeration much? It looked decent, though I did not care for it.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Noel

[Sami]

But XIII is fucking ugly. Adventure on the Atari 2600 was more pleasent to look at.

 

XIII's only redeeming factor was it's visuals. I'll at least give it that much credit.

 

I used the same parameters for comparison that Shirou did. I merely responded to a comparison that had already been made and offered a different perspective. I have perspective - I've just not somehow been deluded into thinking that DOOM has aged well visually and stands up to today's standards.

I was speaking present-tense, judging how well DOOM holds up today, as opposed to how well it used to hold up, whereas your scenario expressly evaluates how Xenoblade was. Evaluation of visual quality and associated standards differ depending on whether you evaluate how they hold up now, and how they held up then. I'm doing the former, and in your comparison; you're doing the latter. Different parameters result in an inaccurate comparison. 

 

But what's the purpose of such a perspective? Are you suggesting that all games should be designed to be as future-proof as possible?

[Chronozoah]

But what's the purpose of such a perspective? Are you suggesting that all games should be designed to be as future-proof as possible?

The purpose was specified earlier:

I'm not evaluating it relative to it's time, I'm evaluating it now, and how it holds up against modern shooters (as did the poster I replied to), in order to fight against the notion that it in any way holds up well.

The parameter for discussion was set by the other person to evaluate DOOM relative to modern games. The point of this perspective was to work within the parameters set by the initial assertion to disprove it.

 

And no. What I'm suggesting, is that by modern standards DOOM is ugly as sin (in order to combat the post that suggested otherwise), however, that is not to say that it wasn't good looking for it's time, but that's something I didn't actually contest.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Heinous Creature

[Jet Prower]

I've been seeing a lot more WiiU commercials over the last few days. I'm glad to see that. Most of them are the Mario commercial yes, but I've seen the other two or three commercials as well lately. Good to see some step up in advertising at this time of the year. I know it may be because certain networks carry certain commercial brands, because some commercials that I see WiiU stuff on, I never see on other commercials where I then see Sony commercials instead.

 

Either way, it is good to at least see some advertising on tv at the moment.

[Sami]

And no. What I'm suggesting, is that by modern standards DOOM is ugly as sin (in order to combat the post that suggested otherwise), however, that is not to say that it wasn't good looking for it's time, but that's something I didn't actually contest.

 

But nobody is debating this. Everyone knows that DOOM looks awful now, just like every other 3D game of its era. All people are saying is that it doesn't matter.

[Chronozoah]

But nobody is debating this. Everyone knows that DOOM looks awful now, just like every other 3D game of its era. All people are saying is that it doesn't matter.

No, that isn't the case. In fact, if you'd care to look back at the post I was actually responding to before you jumped into this discussion:

What 'style' a developer uses is entirely up to the developer, yes, and no style is inherently 'wrong', but DOOM, even in its limited 3D glory, still looks more appealing than the godawful mess of brown that is Gears of War and a huge chunk of Fallout 3. There are art styles that just look lazy, generic and uniformly boring. Hell, this even applies to 'colourful' games, too, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow looks like a generic fantasy title as opposed to a fucking Castlevania game (which is amusingly appropriate, considering very little of its material hasn't been flagrantly ripped out of some other work, the game has very little identity of its own, nevermind failing to be anything more than a Castlevania game in name only).

Here, Shirou is quite clearly not acknowledging that DOOM looks horrendous and that the graphical dissonance doesn't matter, so your statement is proven false. He is in fact comparing DOOM favourably to modern games as if it holds up (or even supersedes them) graphically. It's really quite simple. This was a post which took place (and which I responded to) before you even jumped into this particular discussion, so implying an issue of relevance relative to this discussion point is absurd. Let's not even get into just how illogical and obnoxious it is to jump into a discussion taking place, misrepresent the situation utterly and have the gall to accuse someone else of irrelevance. It's particularly pitiful when the position said person is arguing against is in plain sight, for all to see, so pretending as if no-one was making such claims is even more ludicrous.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Heinous Creature

[Sami]

... Oh. That.

Sorry, yeah, I guess I forgot about that. I don't remember what we're even debating anymore.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Discoid

[Candescence]

Of course DOOM looks graphically horrendous today. There's no contest on the technical side of things.

 

However. The original Gears of War, at the very least, still looks worse artistically (all my memories of that game was one big blur of brown). Ditto Fallout 3, with its utterly boring environments and creepy character models, though even that game had at least some colour variety in that game.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Shirou Emiya

[Chronozoah]

However. The original Gears of War, at the very least, still looks worse artistically (all my memories of that game was one big blur of brown). Ditto Fallout 3, with its utterly boring environments and creepy character models, though even that game had at least some colour variety in that game.

I disagree. The original Gears of War at least had thematic reasoning for having such a dark and drab colour scheme (Blacks, greys, browns), whereas DOOM just looks plain bad as a result of limitations. Even so, to claim that it is 'one big blur of brown' is to blatantly exaggerate, especially considering brown is not actually the most prominent colour in the pallet at all. Black, white and various shades of grey are actually far more common, and granted, that doesn't exactly inspire much in the way of variety, but it's more to illustrate that the memories you seem to be basing your assertion on are faulty.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Heinous Creature

[Mr Useful]

I disagree. The original Gears of War at least had thematic reasoning for having such a dark and drab colour scheme (Blacks, greys, browns), whereas DOOM just looks plain bad as a result of limitations. Even so, to claim that it is 'one big blur of brown' is to blatantly exaggerate, especially considering brown is not actually the most prominent colour in the pallet at all. Black, white and various shades of grey are actually far more common, and granted, that doesn't exactly inspire much in the way of variety, but it's more to illustrate that the memories you seem to be basing your assertion on are faulty.

If I recall correctly, Gears of War(just the first one) was mostly dark because of the engine or something else. Note, I may be wrong.

[Nepenthe]

Really now; let's nix the exhausted argument about color schemes for games that aren't even on the Wii U and get back on topic.

[Detective Shadzter]

Met my wife out of work yesterday at the huge Sainsbury's store where she works and while I was waiting I went to the games section like I usually do. A few weeks ago when I last met her out of work there were DS, 3DS, Wii and a few Wii U games, as well as the systems. Yesterday, however, all of the Nintendo stuff was gone, with more DVDs in their place. I noticed about a month ago that my other nearby Sainsbury's store (a little smaller than the other) at the local shopping centre had got rid of their Nintendo games, too. They already only had a small selection of Wii, DS and 3DS games, with no Wii U games at all.
 
My local ASDA stores appear to still be selling Wii, DS and 3DS games. No Wii U games, though, even though their Nintendo shelf ads have the Wii U logo on
 
Suda51: "Nintendo Are Always Very Important To Us"
Sees the rise of indie games as the highlight of the current generation
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/11/suda51_nintendo_are_always_very_important_to_us

[Jet Prower]

This is starting to concern me a bit hearing all these companies just trying to pull all the Nintendo stuff out like it is something that best be avoided. I know you can still find the stuff if you want, but if these stores keep acting like ewww Nintendo, get rid of it, that is definitely going to affect visibility.