General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[PSI Wind]

Do we really need to see all the hair on Mario's body or am I missing something in this "detail" debate.

[The Deleter]

Do we really need to see all the hair on Mario's body or am I missing something in this "detail" debate.

Well everybody knows that Mario would have looked a thousand times better in the NES games if they were using nowaday's hardware to fully realize the art style...

 

 

 

Right?...

[Sami]

Do we really need to see all the hair on Mario's body or am I missing something in this "detail" debate.

 

There's a difference between that and this - 

 

 

 

 

No need to be a smartass about it.

 

Edit - wow, plus you made me forget my point completely. I'm not even saying that Mario should look like that. I don't care. I don't like the style, but that's the one they chose and the one they've been using for years. It's just as valid a style as Killzone's. No more, no less.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Discoid

[Scar]

3D world has higher res textures, but the overall style has remained the same. Simple, cartoony. Unleashed and the like are going for a high-detail fantasy kind of style.

[Chaos Warp]

Detailed styles do a better job of showing off the hardware, are more easily distinguishable, and might just, you know, actually look better to the people making the games.

Sony's well known for letting their developers do whatever the hell they want with their games. These games look the way they do because the developers wanted them to look like that.

How is that bad?

See, now the catch-22 with that is the graphics age much worse over time when devs try to do that, as opposed to something like Wind Waker which honestly has barely aged in terms of visuals. I understand that games shouldn't stop attempting that because of it, but it provides more weight to the whole unbalanced argument I was making. 

[Sami]

See, now the catch-22 with that is the graphics age much worse over time when devs try to do that, as opposed to something like Wind Waker which honestly has barely aged in terms of visuals. I understand that games shouldn't stop attempting that because of it, but it provides more weight to the whole unbalanced argument I was making. 

 

Then it's a good thing these games are releasing in the present day and not 2020, huh?

 

Mario 64 looks dated as hell. Ocarina of Time looks dated as hell. Super Mario Sunshine looks dated as hell. Sonic Adventure looks dated as hell. 

 

Who cares? Does it make the games harder to go back to? Maybe a bit in the PS2 era and more so in the PS1/N64 generation, but that doesn't mean we have to fault the games the moment they come out for not being timeless.

[Chaos Warp]

Then it's a good thing these games are releasing in the present day and not 2020, huh?

 

Mario 64 looks dated as hell. Ocarina of Time looks dated as hell. Super Mario Sunshine looks dated as hell. Sonic Adventure looks dated as hell. 

 

Who cares? Does it make the games harder to go back to? Maybe a bit in the PS2 era and more so in the PS1/N64 generation, but that doesn't mean we have to fault the games the moment they come out for not being timeless.

It doesn't make games harder to go back too, but it is something that's noticeable, and less noticeable with games that don't try to go all "push the power of the hardware uber detailed". I don't think it should be ignored. 

[Sami]

It doesn't make games harder to go back too, but it is something that's noticeable, and less noticeable with games that don't try to go all "push the power of the hardware uber detailed". I don't think it should be ignored. 

 

I disagree. I don't think we should hold back visual fidelity and development for no better reason than "oh but it'll look bad in ten years".

[Chaos Warp]

I disagree. I don't think we should hold back visual fidelity and development for no better reason than "oh but it'll look bad in ten years".

Who said doing stuff like Wind Waker or Borderlands or Mario was "holding back visual fidelity"? It's just a different graphical approach that tends to age better. What I'm trying to say is that not every developer has to try to take the "uber-detailed power/graphics wank" route, but that also doesn't mean no developer should. Which brings me back to the balance thing. 

Edited November 12, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[PSI Wind]

There's a difference between that and this - 

 

 

 

 

No need to be a smartass about it.

 

Edit - wow, plus you made me forget my point completely. I'm not even saying that Mario should look like that. I don't care. I don't like the style, but that's the one they chose and the one they've been using for years. It's just as valid a style as Killzone's. No more, no less.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass actually.

[Autosaver]

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=216800

 

Nintendo Direct 8am tomorrow.

[Sean]

(Since it mentions 3DS titles,) here's hoping we get more info on Layton VS Wright. Playing it after AA5 will be a disappointment, but I need more Ace Attorney in my diet.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=216800

 

Nintendo Direct 8am tomorrow.

perhaps a SSB reveal? or perhaps that third sonic title?

[Autosaver]

It's focusing on 3DS but we might get a Wii U title announcement. Wii Fit U Direct announced Wii Sports Club.

[Autosaver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bso27e3Inzc

 

BOOM!

[Solkia]

See, now the catch-22 with that is the graphics age much worse over time when devs try to do that, as opposed to something like Wind Waker which honestly has barely aged in terms of visuals. I understand that games shouldn't stop attempting that because of it, but it provides more weight to the whole unbalanced argument I was making. 

 

Hey guys, remember Metroid Prime?

 

Boy that game sure looks like shit nowadays, huh?!

[Autosaver]

Hey guys, remember Metroid Prime?

 

Boy that game sure looks like shit nowadays, huh?!

 

Well....

[Solkia]

The point was that this bullshit "Better graphics may look worse later on so they might as well not do it at all" mindset is bullshit.

 

I mean good god, no fucking shit DOOM doesn't look like Battlefield 3, they're on drastically different hardware.

 

Games like Metroid Prime look amazing for the specs they run on.

[Wraith]

 

Well....

Pfft, use a pretty screenshot at least. I mean shit.

 

[KHCast]

I recently in the PS4 topic posted a comparison to KH3 and KH2. And while I was gushing on KH3's updates I have to say that KH2 still to this day does not look like crap. The game is still creative in it's artstyle, unique, vibrant and colorful. Environments still capture the feel they are going for and mimmic their original interpretations well.(well the disney ones) The original ones are diverse unique and fit well in the universe. The entire world is still atmospheric. Even areas like the Keyblade Graveyard look nice despite being nothing but brown. And just in general, it looks good. It pushed the PS2 and gave us what we see.

 

My point is, that game is 7 years old and even compared to KH3, that game still looks gorgeous. So I don't think over time all games begin to look like crap. Age yes, but they still, at least to me, really look nice for what they could do at the time.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Master Eraqus

[Blacklightning]

Le sigh. I get the feeling people are aping a certain topic I made when it comes to this graphics debate without even understanding the context involved, so I feel I should put my foot in here.

 

Yes, it is possible for a game to squander all of its art direction on elements that come at the cost of its overall timelessness. So? Graphics aren't the only way of making a timeless game, and to suggest otherwise is absolute bullshit. And to suggest that an artstyle is automatically doomed to failure for the cardinal sin of daring to look photorealistic and/or wash out the colour pallette for effect is just fucking laughable. Developers craft a game to look like what they want it to, and it doesn't have to look like a fucking Salvador Dali painting to look appealing to the human eye.

 

I'm sorry if I had to remind you guys this has been a thing since DOS days, too.

[Solkia]

I don't think anyone was dissagreeing actually.

[Chaos Warp]

The point was that this bullshit "Better graphics may look worse later on so they might as well not do it at all" mindset is bullshit.

 

I mean good god, no fucking shit DOOM doesn't look like Battlefield 3, they're on drastically different hardware.

 

Games like Metroid Prime look amazing for the specs they run on.

Funny how that wasn't my point. My point was that not every developer has to go for the uber-detailed power-pushing look with their graphics, and I think there should be a better balance between the more cartoony artstyles that will age better and the uber-detailed power-pushing ones that won't, as most AAA games today have that uber-detailed power-pushing artstyle. 

 

It's all about balance, and in my mind the AAA game industry's not balanced in terms of artstyles right now.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Wraith]

Funny how that wasn't my point. My point was that not every developer has to go for the uber-detailed power-pushing look with their graphics, and I think there should be a better balance between the more cartoony artstyles that will age better and the uber-detailed power-pushing ones that won't, as most AAA games today have that uber-detailed power-pushing artstyle. 

 

I feel like the artstyles are FAR more varied than they were near the beginning of last gen so I don't mind things going the way they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these games were being pushed at Megaton events such as E3, as well. The games that are releasing now are actually pretty damn varied. You can't really put them in a "cartoony or realistic" division, and that's how it should be, I think.

[Chaos Warp]

I feel like the artstyles are FAR more varied than they were near the beginning of last gen so I don't mind things going the way they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these games were being pushed at Megaton events such as E3, as well. The games that are releasing now are actually pretty damn varied. You can't really put them in a "cartoony or realistic" division, and that's how it should be, I think.

What about Battlefield 4, Forza 5, Infamous Second Son, Watch_Dogs, The Division, and all those other games that were megatons at E3, despite not all of them being revealed there? Those games had much more classable artstyles. 

Edited November 13, 2013 by Chaos Warp