Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Fletch]

Well, Sonic #271 and Universe #75 arrived in my mail box today. No Mega Man #48 yet, but I'm okay with that since I'm not that addicted to the Mega Man comics like I am for Sonic. So happy to have #271 after having to wait for what seemed like forever just to get it! 

Hope your #271 arrives in your mail box soon, therealfalconpawnch77!

[ThatSpookyGuy59]

I have a night class today so I have no way of checking to see if I got issue #271 today or not... other than calling my folks but who does that nowadays?

 

I hope it comes in soon.

[Moppsy]

I have a night class today so I have no way of checking to see if I got issue #271 today or not... other than calling my folks but who does that nowadays?

 

I hope it comes in soon.

[Sonic is a Care Bear]

Despite saying he would end shipping with Sonic, Flynn sure is giving a lot of shipping moments to Sonic and Amy. I find it tirsome to say the least.

[Jason Berry]

Despite saying he would end shipping with Sonic, Flynn sure is giving a lot of shipping moments to Sonic and Amy. I find it tiresome to say the least.

 

Okay one, your avatar. Two, they've barely had a few glances and that's about it. Versus ten plus years of back and forth SonAlly flirting, I'd hardly call that tiresome. It's barely shipping and it's still 99% one-sided on Amy's end. Sonic showing concern and being friendly with her is not "shipping". It's called being a friend.

[Sonic is a Care Bear]

I am no subscriber to the deliberately oblique view of literary analysis that anything other than direct on screen snogging is devoid of romantic connotations.

 

While sometimes zealous fans go too far and see things that aren't there, just as often the otherside is in blatant denial fuelled by emotions. Reminds me of the Legend of Korra and how some pigheaded fans refused to acknowledge Korra's relationship with Asami was anything more than platonic friendship even when the signs were obvious.

 

The years of Sonic and Sally flirting aren't relevant, because the book is not supposed to be trying to equalize what Sonic and Amy have now with the relationships of the past. It's supposed to be a fresh start unencumbered by shipping and the problems that came with it.  

 

I wouldn't have posted about it if I hadn't seen spoilers for the latest issue with yet another sickenly cute shipping tease.

 

You're right there hasn't been many total moments yet, because the reboot is still in it infancy, but in nearly every arc since the reboot it's gotten teased.

 

Countdown to Chaos

Damage Control

The Chase

Waves of Change

Champions

Latest in the 75th SU issue

All had scenes that pandered to Sonic/Amy fans, for a short reboot that actually is a lot. And a pretty annoying trend considering the writer said he'd stop this shipping nonsense.

 

And my avatar means nothing, it's just a picture of two characters I like.

[Adamis]

I don't see why you're complaining. The majority of the games where Amy is in does that too.

[Kuzu]

I am no subscriber to the deliberately oblique view of literary analysis that anything other than direct on screen snogging is devoid of romantic connotations.

 

While sometimes zealous fans go too far and see things that aren't there, just as often the otherside is in blatant denial fuelled by emotions. Reminds me of the Legend of Korra and how some pigheaded fans refused to acknowledge Korra's relationship with Asami was anything more than platonic friendship even when the signs were obvious.

 

The years of Sonic and Sally flirting aren't relevant, because the book is not supposed to be trying to equalize what Sonic and Amy have now with the relationships of the past. It's supposed to be a fresh start unencumbered by shipping and the problems that came with it.  

 

I wouldn't have posted about it if I hadn't seen spoilers for the latest issue with yet another sickenly cute shipping tease.

 

You're right there hasn't been many total moments yet, because the reboot is still in it infancy, but in nearly every arc since the reboot it's gotten teased.

 

Countdown to Chaos

Damage Control

The Chase

Waves of Change

Champions

Latest in the 75th SU issue

All had scenes that pandered to Sonic/Amy fans, for a short reboot that actually is a lot. And a pretty annoying trend considering the writer said he'd stop this shipping nonsense.

 

And my avatar means nothing, it's just a picture of two characters I like.

 

So lemme get this straight, according to your logic, Sonic cheering up Tails in the previous issue must count as "Ship Tease" for those two then amirite :V

 

 

 

Seriously, you're doing the exact same thing you accuse other people off; Sonic isn't making googly eyes at Amy, he's not blatantly flirting with her, and there's no real obvious attraction on his end in the first place. Their dynamic is  pretty much exactly like it is in the games. What, Sonic is suddenly not suppose to give a damn about her? Is that it? Because last time I checked, even if Amy is romantically attracted to him and he isn't, the two are kind of still friends despite that :V

 

 

And above everything else, who cares? Why is it a problem? There's no absolute law dictating that "These two characters are never allowed to show any sort of romantic attraction to each other". The only reason Flynn broke Sonic & Sally up is probably because he really couldn't make the pairing work anymore, that doesn't suddenly ban all shipping within the comic itself. Like hell, there's an entire story arc going on and you zoom in on the most insignificant part about it. 

 

If that's not grasping at straws, I don't know what.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Ian specifically said he was tired of the shipping wars, incidentally. It's not just guesswork that he's dropping shipping, at least with the SEGA characters. It wasn't just because "Sonic and Sally had nowhere else to go", it's because he was tired of all the shit he was getting from the fans for something he couldn't even conclude due to SEGA going "dude, what the fuck are you doing".

[Neon Zephyr]

#74 When will you introduce *insert pairing here* into the comic!? 

I do not launch ships. I do not sink ships. I am not even on the coast.

 

(EDIT: This is from March 22 of this year, 2015. So unless there's something more recent...)

 

There is a difference between "launching ships", "sinking ships" or even active romantic development (which is what Ian was probably referring to) and characters flirting with each other, especially when one of them has a crush on the other as part of their character from the source material.

 

Amy likes Sonic. Has since her debut in CD. Ian didn't start that, and he's stated (in a general, blanket answer) that he's not sinking it. He's not interested ("not even on the coast") in relationship development. But, that can't mean that we can't have fun with being flirtatious. Even with characters with established crushes from the source material. It's a natural way for real people to interact, even if there's not actual romantic intention behind it (Example, I am extremely flirtatious to my close friends. But, most of them, I would never be actually romantically involved with). Rotor and Razor totally had a flirtatious panel together in WoC, too. Does that mean that Ian is trying to launch a ship there, or any sort of actual romantic development? No, it was just two characters interacting in a natural manner. The only difference with Amy and Sonic is one of them has a canon crush on the other, and thus has to also act accordingly. 

 

I'm tired of natural character interaction being referred to as "pandering to fans." 

[Echidna Adventurer CC14]

Finally got my copy of #271 in today. Guess they finally resolved most of the subscriber issues. Didn't see it posted, so I'm gonna share the Off-Panel:

So THAT'S where Rocket Metal was.

[Sonic is a Care Bear]

It's pretty telling that I'm being argued against on two fronts - half of the arguments comprising of "Ohh that's just ~crazy shipping goggles~ lol you must think two characters standing next to each other is shipping" and the other half is "Ugh, them being flirtatious is based in canon! Who cares if they show romantic attraction to each other?!"

 

Two diametrically opposite arguments trampling over each other to prove me wrong.

 

 

Anyway since the 2nd argument is the more debatable of the two, I'll address that. You can call it natural character interaction, but how Sonic deals with Amy's crush is noticeably difference from the source material. This image best illustrates differences between media, in both cases Amy still has her crush, but only one has pandering.

 

Comicbook SonicxAmy

Game SonicxAmy

 

In the games Sonic certainly does care for Amy as a deep friend, but there is a big leap from the annoyed/creeped out characterization here to the comic's amused and encouraging attitude.

 

It wouldn't be a problem if it was once in a blue moon, but it's happening almost every arc now. We're not too far off from Sonic Boom levels of ship teasing.

 

It feels like Ian Flynn is trying to have his cake and eat it too, saying he's ending all shipping with Sonic, so nobody can complain that he's picking one ship over another, while adding more fuel than ever to the Sonic/Amy ship. 

[Kuzu]

It's pretty telling that I'm being argued against on two fronts - half of the arguments comprising of "Ohh that's just ~crazy shipping goggles~ lol you must think two characters standing next to each other is shipping" and the other half is "Ugh, them being flirtatious is based in canon! Who cares if they show romantic attraction to each other?!"

 

Two diametrically opposite arguments trampling over each other to prove me wrong.

 

 

Anyway since the 2nd argument is the more debatable of the two, I'll address that. You can call it natural character interaction, but how Sonic deals with Amy's crush is noticeably difference from the source material. This image best illustrates differences between media, in both cases Amy still has her crush, but only one has pandering.

 

Comicbook SonicxAmy

Game SonicxAmy

 

In the games Sonic certainly does care for Amy as a deep friend, but there is a big leap from the annoyed/creeped out characterization here to the comic's amused and encouraging attitude.

 

It wouldn't be a problem if it was once in a blue moon, but it's happening almost every arc now. We're not too far off from Sonic Boom levels of ship teasing.

 

It feels like Ian Flynn is trying to have his cake and eat it too, saying he's ending all shipping with Sonic, so nobody can complain that he's picking one ship over another, while adding more fuel than ever to the Sonic/Amy ship. 

[Zaysho]

It's pretty telling that I'm being argued against on two fronts - half of the arguments comprising of "Ohh that's just ~crazy shipping goggles~ lol you must think two characters standing next to each other is shipping" and the other half is "Ugh, them being flirtatious is based in canon! Who cares if they show romantic attraction to each other?!"

 

Two diametrically opposite arguments trampling over each other to prove me wrong.

 

 

Anyway since the 2nd argument is the more debatable of the two, I'll address that. You can call it natural character interaction, but how Sonic deals with Amy's crush is noticeably difference from the source material. This image best illustrates differences between media, in both cases Amy still has her crush, but only one has pandering.

 

Comicbook SonicxAmy

Game SonicxAmy

 

In the games Sonic certainly does care for Amy as a deep friend, but there is a big leap from the annoyed/creeped out characterization here to the comic's amused and encouraging attitude.

 

It wouldn't be a problem if it was once in a blue moon, but it's happening almost every arc now. We're not too far off from Sonic Boom levels of ship teasing.

 

It feels like Ian Flynn is trying to have his cake and eat it too, saying he's ending all shipping with Sonic, so nobody can complain that he's picking one ship over another, while adding more fuel than ever to the Sonic/Amy ship.

[Sonictrainer]

Anyone got a Chaos Emerald Checklist?

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

• Red emerald: Collected during the great chaos caper
• Purple: Collected during the light in the dark
• White: Collected during Control
• Green: Collected during Champions
• Yellow: Collected during spark of light
• Blue: Possibly collected in Fury. (Tried to get in Ambushed, but failed.)
• The only emerald remaining is the cyan/turquoise emerald.

[Forte-Metallix]

Anyone got a Chaos Emerald Checklist?

[goku262002]

Finally got my copy of #271 in today. Guess they finally resolved most of the subscriber issues. Didn't see it posted, so I'm gonna share the Off-Panel:

So THAT'S where Rocket Metal was.

Cheeky. but whats the REAL reason?

[Neon Zephyr]

Completely opposing? Did you even read my post? I thought made it pretty clear that my *entire argument* was "flirtation =/= romantic attraction/development" Which means that, no, I pretty much agree that there's a bit of "shipping goggles" going on here. I minorly disagree with the "other" argument in that I *do* interpret it as flirting, but I *also* agree in how I stressed that it still wasn't actually *romantic.*

 

Sonic is cool. That is the supposed "core" of his character. He doesn't settle down with a girl (or a guy, or whatever) because he doesn't consider that to be the "cool thing" to do (at least, for him). He's too busy off on his adventures, kicking Eggman's butt (and in the comics, fighting to free the areas under his control). In the games, he seems to mostly just brush off Amy ("I'm too cool to handle this right now, goodbye" type of thing), but in the comics--which are an adaptation of sorts and thus have variations and deviations by nature of adaptation--he reacts by being the "Smooth guy" while not being serious about it. He's teasing her because he's "cool" while doing it. 

 

"Natural character interaction" means that flirting does not automatically mean romantic development. Which was my entire point. Yes, Amy is attracted to Sonic (this is part of her canon character). Sonic doesn't have time/a real desire for romance. It's not his thing, at least not for a long while yet in his life. He's too busy being cool. He has a different dynamic with the other characters, not just Amy, in the comics than the games, due to the different nature of the world there. So, yeah, he might be flirting, but that isn't automatically romantic. The moment in SU75 (Which *I* was the one who shared some of the first caps of here) that is probably the one you're angry about isn't even something I'd call "genuine" flirting. He's making fun of her crush on him, teasing her for not being all over him for once. I mean, in Champions he's got some flirtatious stuff goin' on with Breezie (she freaking *locks arms* with him), but it's pretty clear they have no REAL interest in each other. And Sonic flirt-teased Sally early in the arc. Sonic is a flirt in the comics, because that's how this version interprets "cool." 

 

Is there some romantic twinges from Amy's side? Absolutely. SHE HAS A CRUSH ON SONIC. That's not Ian, that's Sega. He's just playing with the toys he's given. Do I think he should back off on it? Dunno. The best way to do that without ignoring just a major part of Amy's canon character is to not have them interact in the same stories, which means she'll probably either be shunted to backups (which have been hit or miss for me lately) or just not in the stories (at least not in the main book). I like Amy (though I didn't always), and I like her interactions with the rest of the cast, so I'm not sure if I want that (on second thought, there's always Universe...). 

 

Plus, like. Breezie was hardcore flirting with NeoMetal in the 270 flashback. Forcing him to caress her face and everything. But you haven't brought that up. Or the fact that Antoine and Bunnie are still married, and there's been some sappiness there. Or the Rotor/Razor moment I mentioned before. Or any other moment of even mild flirtation. Only Sonic/Amy interactions. If they're a NOTP for you, that's cool. We all have pairings that jerk us wrong. Just, please be up front about it. you don't have to hide behind "Ian said he'd have no shipping why is there flirting" and then only use Sonic and Amy.

 

Is Comic!Sonic acting a bit different than Game!Sonic? Yes. I've never said otherwise. It's an adaptation, sometimes that happens. The core motivation remains, however. Though who am I kidding, I've read people in actual rage and calling Ian a terrible writer/saying he's mocking AoStH fans because Breezie wasn't a 100%-Copy-and-Paste from her source material. Same with the 5S Squad. IIRC on this very thread.

 

Again, since I want to make sure I'm being 100% transparent here (and apologize if it wasn't before):

 

Flirtatious behavior does not automatically mean romantic attraction. Sometimes characters (and actual people) flirt with each other, regardless of any attractions, be they mutual, one-sided, or non-existent entirely. Two people can flirt without there being any intent. It's been shown in the book already.

[biznizz]

Cheeky. but whats the REAL reason?

 

My best guess? Either SEGA nixed it as some part of "Only one Metal Sonic only" or it was advice from Kaminski since he nixed something in World Unite (forgot what it was).

[Tenko]

Dunno why they couldn't just have Metal using some kind of exoskeleton or upgrade that made him look like Rocket Metal, but then have it destroyed or shed by him when it gets cumbersome and have him going back to normal.

Only one Metal Sonic - check!

Fans of source material still get Rocket Metal - check!

Win, win, yes?

[YoshiAngemon]

Rocket Metal is but a Mode Change. Change Regular Head to Rocket Head, and it's only good in orbit.

[biznizz]

Honestly who knows? Well, I'm sure Ian does, but you know what I mean.

Still pretty sure it's a SEGA thing where after Metal Overlord, Metal Sonic is no longer allowed to have any major alterations to his structure, even if it's temporary. Lest we forget that Nega's only unobscured appearance in the book was ALSO in an Off Panel.

[goku262002]

Dunno why they couldn't just have Metal using some kind of exoskeleton or upgrade that made him look like Rocket Metal, but then have it destroyed or shed by him when it gets cumbersome and have him going back to normal.

Only one Metal Sonic - check!

Fans of source material still get Rocket Metal - check!

Win, win, yes?

I wouldn't have minded that, it'd still be Metal Sonic just with some outside armor upgrades.

Oh well, not like it matters now.

[Big Panda]

[*]Blue: Possibly collected in Fury. (Tried to get in Ambushed, but failed.)

[*]The only emerald remaining is the cyan/turquoise emerald.

No, the one Metal Sonic has in Fury is the cyan/turquoise one.

Which Sonic retrieves at the end of the issue. All emeralds have been found now and it's 6-1