Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Sonic is a Care Bear]

You managed one reply to my post before reverting back to incredibly hostile tone and personal insults. There is no reason why this should be present in discussion of a children cartoon character (and there is no reason this discussion should have gone on this long), you need to cool down before you post if you are taking this personally.

 

"knowing what I don't know" is a part of logical inference. But you're misusing it if you think it's a crude hammer that applies every-time there's a tiny fraction of mystery.

Here's things I know I don't know; I don't know when the Sonic Unleashed Adaption will end, I don't know who Rotor's farther is, I don't know if the crossover will feature Chun-Li.

 

I do know the Sonic Unleashed adaption won't last til Issue #500, I do know that Rotor's farther isn't time-traveling Knuckles from the future, I do know that the crossover won't feature Goku.

 

How do I know this? Yes, technically it's not impossible, it could be a huge surprise, but we know enough to sensibly say it's not going to happen.

 

You are arguing from a hypothetical perspective, that IF something happens, something surprising that is not reasonable to expect (and maybe sure to keep bias out of this, maybe you want it to happen, I think it'd be great if it happened too, but don't let your desire color your perspective), then that would justify the stripping down of characterization for flexibility. 

I get where you're coming from, if this was talking about something more reasonable to expect you would have a reasonable point (not enough to stop other people from raising their legitimate concerns, but a good answer for when they did). But there is no reason to expect this in the current comic, even Breezie, who you keep citing as a major surprise, had reasons to appear. She was the most well known (often made the 4th member of the S6) in the fandom, the writers had expressed interests in using some aosth material (plus all other media besides satam being cut off from use), the Pendering meant that the comic needed new characters, and the comic needed more girl characters specially. It was a recipe of factors that all contributed to Breezie showing up.

 

It was still a surprise, albeit less surprising than you're making out, but surprises don't stop logical inference. We don't base our budget around winning the lottery, and we don't base our arguments around the future of the Sonic comic on the nigh impossible happening.

 

Arguing that 'Coconuts misfortune is not dependent on his position [and he can be a chew toy in other ways]' is essentially arguing 'any misfortune to Coconuts is the same no matter his position' in a different way. I think this comes back to you fundamentally not grasping his character. There's a substantive difference in how he is mistreated, it is part of who he is. You might not take that seriously but where his comedy come from is important. Imagine a Seinfeld where you replace every instance of George Costanza's misfortune with him slipping on a banana peel, it wouldn't be George Costanza, just some guy who slips on banana peels a lot. That's an extreme example, but it illustrates the principal; if you change Coconuts from a frustrated underdog woobie striving for success who never gets any, into the successful, happy, high ranking boss of two frustrating dopes; you've lost a lot of character, and it brings into question why not just create a new character to fill the roll?

 

You've mentioned pigeonholing, I don't want this conversation to go in circles, I've already said why that isn't applicable because of their stature in the comic and potential for growth. I don't see anything else gained from revisiting it.

 

Sorry, it's still irrelevant. It's not a secret move to 'win' the conversation. If you have a serious point you so firmly believe hidden in there, you're going to have to explain it further, because you haven't linked it to this conversation in a way that means anything. Coconuts getting temporary power doesn't change his character, just like how Homer Simpson being smart for one episode doesn't change anything about who he is. If they decided to make him a genius for a whole season, that would be important, it's all about the status quo.

 

It's not about whether I'm right or wrong in five years time, I'm right right now, I'll only be proven indisputably right in 5 years. But I don't have to wait until opinions become fact before expressing it, that's the nature of opinions. You need to become more tolerant of other peoples views if you're going to find any person who disagrees with you problematic. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You managed one reply to my post before reverting back to incredibly hostile tone and personal insults. There is no reason why this should be present in discussion of a children cartoon character (and there is no reason this discussion should have gone on this long), you need to cool down before you post if you are taking this personally.

I may be coming off as aggressive, I admit, but I'm actually having a lot fun here. You're the one taking this too personally if you think I'm resorting to personal insults. I tend to be blunt, but personal insults generally something I don't do - that's when moderators come in and start handing out warnings.

 

And I can't misuse "knowing what you don't know" by admitting that there are things I don't know. That doesn't mean I'm going to make such random and extreme predictions like you're doing (again) over what will or will not happen - I'm not predicting whether or not Rotor's father is a time traveling Knuckles, or if Goku will appear in the crossover or not. I'm waiting to see what happens and judge how it performs, the thing I've told you at least twice by now, because you never know where they'll take things. I'm not basing my budget on a lottery if I'm not even playing the lottery in the first place.

 

And I don't see how Breezie's reveal wasn't as surprising as I make it out when hardly anyone saw her coming. But even then, she wasn't the only surprise in this comic. No one foresaw events such as Eggman making a Second Death Egg, Eggman actually beating Sonic in a fight, or that two minor and forgetable villains all the way from issue #60 in the comic would turn up as central antagonists in issue #200, which is a pretty massive gap for characters not appearing and one of the biggest reasons why I say we shouldn't be making such predictions over what will or happen regarding these characters.

 

 

 

Arguing that 'Coconuts misfortune is not dependent on his position [and he can be a chew toy in other ways]' is essentially arguing 'any misfortune to Coconuts is the same no matter his position' in a different way.

Logically speaking, if the way is different, then it's not the same, now is it? Especially if the way his misfortune in the cartoons isn't done the same as it could be here in the comics. The journey isn't the same as the destination - you can reach the same city, but crossing the ocean to do it isn't the same as going over mountains.

 

You yourself admitted that what they're doing to Coconuts right now isn't the same as the cartoons, and that even if he were to have misfortune done to him it still different due to him having success and recognition. I'm practically confirming that, yes, it is different as a result of that, but that it still doesn't stop him from having misfortune and being funny regardless. So like I said, I understand his character, and just because I'm accepting of differences done doesn't mean I fail to grasp it.

 

And the reason why they would choose to use an existing character instead of making a new character would be fan service to older fans for one, and two is that there is material already done for them to build off of using an existing character so it would save a lot of work in addition to giving purpose to the nostalgia fans have of the character.

 

 

 

Sorry, it's still irrelevant. It's not a secret move to 'win' the conversation. If you have a serious point you so firmly believe hidden in there, you're going to have to explain it further, because you haven't linked it to this conversation in a way that means anything.

No, this is just a refusal to admit that something proved you wrong, because your point was that Coconuts is a character who is miserable no matter how hard he tries to achieve success, and giving him such success and recognition destroys why he was funny. Yet that episode where Eggman turned into Super Robotnik was a complete defiance of that, even if temporary, because Coconuts achieved the success and recognition he always wanted by becoming Eggman's right hand badnik over Scratch and Grounder. He returned back to being miserable, but the fact remains that he achieved success and recognition, ironically by accident, but achieved nonetheless. 

 

Only until I brought it up did you move the goalpost to deem it irrelevant, because at the time you made your point you said nothing about it being temporary or permanent.

 

It's not about whether I'm right or wrong in five years time, I'm right right now,

And again, I don't really care, because that was never the point in the first place.

[Sean]

This condescending atmosphere is what sent the previous Archie topic down the shitter. Stop it with the passive aggressive jabs at one another, please

[Your Vest Friend]

IGN's April Fools joke is just so cruel.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Uh...is it suppose to be a 404?

[biznizz]

"Archie Announces Reboot For Sonic Comics After Worlds Unite", huh?

 

Not quite "Unlock Shen-Long In Street Fighter II by doing this" or "Tails is in Brawl by doing that", sad show IGN. (But then again, what do you expect).

 

But considering the post-Worlds Collide situation and Archie's upcoming reboot of their main line, maybe appropo?

[Red Hot Jack]

But considering the post-Worlds Collide situation and Archie's upcoming reboot of their main line, maybe appropo?

[QuantumEdge]

Heh heh, sounds pretty brutal, yet so faked.  Can't wait to see who might actually fall for this and flip out

[SBR2]

I haven't been on here in a while wonder what's been going on. *Goes back a Page* ...Yikes.

[Big Panda]

A friend of mine has got #271 and he tells me that:

It's officially becoming "Endangered Species Mk. II". The issue opens halfway through a battle between Eggman and the heroes, the doctor has the Chaos Emerald in his clutches. Apparently, according to an unnamed secretary character Breezie and the 6S (or "The boss and her cronies") had to up and leave at the last minute due to a business emergency, allowing Eggman to finally strike. In the end, the heroes have retreat back to Sky Patrol, before Sonic is hastily sent off on a mission to find another Chaos Emerald in Apatos (Sonic Universe #75).

[Your Vest Friend]

What? Where did the fight between Knuckles and Sonic go???

 

This is going to completely fuck my review plan up!

[Ryannumber1gamer]

A friend of mine has got #271 and he tells me that:

It's officially becoming "Endangered Species Mk. II". The issue opens halfway through a battle between Eggman and the heroes, the doctor has the Chaos Emerald in his clutches. Apparently, according to an unnamed secretary character Breezie and the 6S (or "The boss and her cronies") had to up and leave at the last minute due to a business emergency, allowing Eggman to finally strike. In the end, the heroes have retreat back to Sky Patrol, before Sonic is hastily sent off on a mission to find another Chaos Emerald in Apatos (Sonic Universe #75).

 

So they didn't even do the Sonic/Knuckles fight?

 

No resolution to Nack preparing to attack Sonic & Knuckles?

 

No Metal Sonic battle leading to Eggman jumping in at the last minute?

 

What a disappointment.

[Dejimon11]

Ryan you really need to put a spoil tag on that man

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Forget Endangered Species 2.0. At least that had a reason for the completely stupid ending. This on the other hand does not.

[Dejimon11]

Oh man it begins again well at least its a good thing that the second crossover is so Archie can stall for time again. April Fools everybody  

[Eitarou]

So this is an amazingly hilarious gag for April Fools, right?

...right?

[Your Vest Friend]

So this is an amazingly hilarious gag for April Fools, right?

...right?

 

The issue isn't out until next week, so no.

[Big Panda]

Also the cover for the next issue has been changed: Sonic is now doing battle with the Nerb Egg Army.

[Kuzu]

A friend of mine has got #271 and he tells me that:

It's officially becoming "Endangered Species Mk. II". The issue opens halfway through a battle between Eggman and the heroes, the doctor has the Chaos Emerald in his clutches. Apparently, according to an unnamed secretary character Breezie and the 6S (or "The boss and her cronies") had to up and leave at the last minute due to a business emergency, allowing Eggman to finally strike. In the end, the heroes have retreat back to Sky Patrol, before Sonic is hastily sent off on a mission to find another Chaos Emerald in Apatos (Sonic Universe #75).

[Your Vest Friend]

>:-(

[Zaysho]

Also the cover for the next issue has been changed: Sonic is now doing battle with the Nerb Egg Army.

[Big Panda]

This last half hour was the most fun I've ever had.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got an angry mob to hide from.

[Celestia]

It's official: Fat Panda is literally the worst SSMB member and should be permabanned for this foolishness >:V

 

I totally believed it at first, hahaha.

[Blue Swallow]

Panda, you better watch your back, cause Omochao's not taking this too well. I thought it was funny, but he wanted me to blow this place up.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

This last half hour was the most fun I've ever had.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got an angry mob to hide from.