Spoiler Thread (Spoiler Tags Please)

[Barry the Nomad]

Doesn't make it any less fucking retarded >_>

thank you for complying, have a nice day.

edit: and the world continues to turn

Edited April 5, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[speedfreak]

I hope we get a Metal Sonic race followed by a boss fight. Him running into the wall to be defeated in CD was so anticlimactic IMO.

[Sean]

Jeez, calm down girls.

Yeah if you don't want to be spoiled, just don't click on THE SPOILER TOPIC (given the nature of the topic, I think of spoiler tags as courteous, but not mandatory). Should be obvious.

[Detective Shadzter]

I'm just respecting what the topic creator (or mod who edited it) states in the title.

Also, as I said above, I think there is a difference between minor spoilers and super spoilers. I consider it the "Snape kills Dumbledore" of the moment.

Noooooooooooooo, you spoiled it for me ya

I kid

I know this is the spoiler thread guys but the topic title does still state you should use spoiler tags and its not that hard or annoying to do. I think what Doctor Eggman is trying to get at is the fact that some people in here might have only spoiled say half of it for themselves for example but keeping the later parts a surprise so they might want to discuss the first few levels here without having the rest spoiled. It does seem silly yes but it's not really going out of your way to type the spoiler tags or use the spoiler tag control in the Other Styles drop down menu in the full editor.

Not trying to argue with or offend anyone against spoiler tags in the spoiler thread, just my thoughts. I've already spoiled everything for myself anyway so it doesn't affect me.

[Barry the Nomad]

Eggs-zactly Shadz.

This whole leak business has led to an odd hierarchy of spoilage. On one hand, there are those who thought watching all of Splash Hill and the first zone of Casino Street was enough, while others have stuck to act 1 of each zone. Just because one has spoiled themselves with the first third of the game, doesn't mean that they want to know the ending of it.

I'm just hoping episode 2 is handled better in terms of leaks. I hate to say it, but had Sonic 4 been disc only, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[Blue Blood]

I'm just hoping episode 2 is handled better in terms of leaks. I hate to say it, but had Sonic 4 been disc only, we wouldn't be in this mess.

And I'm still hoping for (but not expecting) a complete-collection disc release. I'd be all =D and whatnot.

Re-watching the leaked footage, I like that every act feels different. SHZ1 is a relatively basic level, whereas SHZ3 has lots of tall structures and vertical movement. It's nice to have the acts feeling more unique.

[Barry the Nomad]

Y'know, Sega loves rerereleasing Sonic 1-3&K, so why not release a complete Sonic 4 on disc early 2011 with the first three games included as a bonus.

Sonic CD would make for a nice addition as well, considering who appears in Sonic 4

[Sparks]

Y'know, Sega loves rerereleasing Sonic 1-3&K, so why not release a complete Sonic 4 on disc early 2011 with the first three games included as a bonus.

Sonic CD would make for a nice addition as well, considering who appears in Sonic 4

I'd be fine with that idea. But do you mean REMAKING Sonic 1-3&K? Cause that would not go down well with MANY people. Although, I'd love to see remakes with the Sonic 4 graphics engine (of course, these remakes would not include the homing attack, something that is exclusive to Sonic 4, in terms of new features)

Edited April 5, 2010 by 220

[Barry the Nomad]

Oh no, I mean simple roms of the games. It would give Sega chance to properly implement Sonic & Knuckles lock-on which has been MIA in the XBLA and Ultimate Genesis Collection disc releases. Plus, it would be rather fun to play through Sonic 1-4 all on one disc.

[speedfreak]

Throw in Chaotix perhaps? I mean it's not that good, but it's been years since I played it and I wouldn't mind giving it another go.

[Patticus]

Guess I'll quote you, since you didn't see my last post.

What do you mean by "floaty"? What does your friend mean?

He jumps through the air and slowly floats about like he's on the moon. In the originals, you jumped and he came back to earth in a nice, smooth motion.

[Detective Shadzter]

Oh no, I mean simple roms of the games. It would give Sega chance to properly implement Sonic & Knuckles lock-on which has been MIA in the XBLA and Ultimate Genesis Collection disc releases. Plus, it would be rather fun to play through Sonic 1-4 all on one disc.

Lock-on is in the XBLA and Wii VC releases, you're right that the Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection/SEGA Mega Drive Ultimate Collection doesn't have it though.

[Sparks]

He jumps through the air and slowly floats about like he's on the moon. In the originals, you jumped and he came back to earth in a nice, smooth motion.

Hmm.. I see what you're talking about.

In the "alpha" footage (the very first leaked video of Sonic 4), it was much worse. So at least we know they tweaked it, and are hopefully fixing it before the game is released. Although, it doesn't look like it affects gameplay too much. The only way to know, is to play the game for ourselves.

You know, these leaks make things more difficult. We don't know if this is the final game, or if it's unfinished and was put on PartnerNet for tests. Most likely the second option. If the supposed "July" release date is true.

Edited April 5, 2010 by 220

[Barry the Nomad]

I stand by the 4th of July.

[Patticus]

In the "alpha" footage (the very first leaked video of Sonic 4), it was much worse. So at least we know they tweaked it, and are hopefully fixing it before the game is released. Although, it doesn't look like it affects gameplay too much. The only way to know, is to play the game for ourselves.

It does affect gameplay because jumping is the most basic element of the whole game, and while the Alpha was much worse it's still not fixed; my friend played the game and he said it didn't feel right at all. Unless they completely fix it, I don't think many of us are going to sit easy with it either.

Fortunately it doesn't seem like an unpatchable problem.

[Sparks]

It does affect gameplay because jumping is the most basic element of the whole game, and while the Alpha was much worse it's still not fixed; my friend played the game and he said it didn't feel right at all. Unless they completely fix it, I don't think many of us are going to sit easy with it either.

Fortunately it doesn't seem like an unpatchable problem.

Although it does affect gameplay, it's not something that will hinder the experience too much (something "game breaking"). From watching the videos anyway. That's what I should have wrote.

But if your friend thinks "it doesn't feel right", because he has had time to play with it, then I may be wrong.

I just can't wait to get some hands-on time with this game. Really looking forward to it.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Sparks

[Patticus]

But if your friend thinks "it doesn't feel right", because he has had time to play with it, then I may be wrong.

To be helpful and not sound like a troll, here's what he has said:

All I'll say is this: The jumping really feels out of place, very floaty. Just doesn't seem to sit right

They need to get the jumping right. It's very important to me that that key element isn't cocked up.

[MrROBOTO1988]

Jumping is important, but keep in mind it is not going to be just like the genesis titles. It simply won't. Sorry if you are demanding that, it's not going to happen. It's not a genesis game, it's a modern console video game built on a different game engine with different physics. I know that will likely be an issue for a lot of sonic "fans" but that's just how it is. the game still looks great, and still looks like a classic sonic game with some new additions.

[speedfreak]

I was watching the final zone again and during the credits I noticed

when the Casino Street Boss is shown there appears to be spikes in the middle of the stage in between the pinball flippers. Could this indicate a possible hard mode? Then again I didn't save the Casino Street boss so I don't know if there were background items that looked like spikes there.

Anyway a hard mode would be great if I'm right.

Edited April 7, 2010 by speedfreak

[Agent York]

I was watching the final zone again and during the credits I noticed

when the Casino Street Boss is shown there appears to be spikes in the middle of the stage in between the pinball flippers. Could this indicate a possible hard mode? Then again I didn't save the Casino Street boss so I don't know if there were background items that looked like spikes there.

Anyway a hard mode would be great if I'm right.

I have the video, and your right, it's not there... .Interesting.

EDIT: Actually, I think those spikes spring up when he grabs you. There are spike holes there but not spikes.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Dusk the Wicked Keeper

[speedfreak]

Well darn, a hard mode would have been cool. Especially since the bosses look so easy. =/ Thanks for checking for me though.

[Agent York]

Well darn, a hard mode would have been cool. Especially since the bosses look so easy. =/ Thanks for checking for me though.

I still don't throw that one out of the air yet, we haven't seen a detailed menus and Dimps often has that on their menus. I know that's a Dimps thing and not a Genesis things, but come on it's not like all Dimps did was regress the Sonic platformer, there were steps forward too and I liked the different difficulty settings. Except I wish there was a hard mode instead of "Easy and Normal".

[Blue Blood]

The platforms during the SHZ boss in ESZ move up and down too, instead of staying in the same place.

Spoiler tags highly pointless in the spoiler thread.

[Agent York]

The platforms during the SHZ boss in ESZ move up and down too, instead of staying in the same place.

Spoiler tags highly pointless in the spoiler thread.

Well different kinds of spoilers. Anything during the final zone or credits are bigger spoilers than the other spoilers since it's the climax and ending and such.

[Dark Qiviut]

Hahahaha getting called "daft" by someone who's avatar picture says "canon is overated", that's rich!

...

What the HELL does this have to do with anything?

SEGA could've checked to see that PartnerNET isn't dodgy, they put it there, therefore they ARE partialy to blame. That's like leaving your child with a babysitter who you've not done any background checks on.

Easier said than done. IPs can be checked, but they also can be easily manipulated so Microsoft can't track them. Plus, look at these leaks compared to others. All-Stars Racing got leaked a few times, too, but they weren't that massive at all. Plus, as said before, PartnerNet -- a site that was supposed to have good, tight security -- has a strict clause that any test-run games can't be discussed or revealed, period, or else risk getting in legal trouble. Someone with an apparent grudge over S4:E1 decided to spill the hardworking beans. Watching it over is one thing, and I think Sega and Dimps were watching carefully. Why would they keep the game top secret for so long? This leak came out of nowhere for everyone involved, because we haven't seen this before (at least in terms of Sonic games).

Yes, Sega has a tendency to hold loose, poor security of their games. This leak, though, was not due to Sega's poor security. It was all Microsoft's fault! Microsoft promised to protect the game, and they FAILED! Haven't you literally LOOKED at the news of these leaks, Sega's reaction, and WHY Sega reacted so angrily? The company had a damn GOOD reason to be mad. The fact that you and a lot still haven't connected the dots just shocks me.

Mmm, who's making assumptions now.

As you apparently have no clue about the leaks and are still under this naïve pretense of Sega being "partially" at fault of the leak, I can safely say that the answer is yourself.

The average consumer, as many many people have pointed out, tend to be kids, kids who - will not be rabid forum lurkers, and who will only ever find these leaks if magazines or mainstream game sites cover them (and I highly doubt those mediums with reputations will incite possible legal action from SEGA)so unless they are Sonic fans which makes them part of the 10%, this game will not be ruined for most.

That may be true; kids are one of their main sells. Will the leaks affect the sells for kids? Probably not. We'll find out through sales.

However, don't forget this: S4:E1 is supposed to also target nostalgia gamers, too, with a "revisit of old times." These guys, who range from the twelve-year-olds up, will lurk various forums and will come across leaks, both discussed like here or actual video content from sites like YouTube. And if you look at how big YouTube and other places like Facebook can really be, you'll see how quick this info can be spread and sought after.

Bringing back memories is one thing, lazy-assed copying is another. This is Sonic 4, it should have the feel of the classics whilst bringing something original to the table. Ripping directly off of previous games so much so that bosses, badniks, and level design just look like HD remakes is not nostalgia, it's serving you the exact same dish with a side-serving of homing attack and bad physics thrown in.

First off, it's EPISODE 1. The other episodes aren't teased-released yet, nor may they even be in development!

Episode 1 does reuse a lot of elements, and I'd love for some more creativity than just the sparkles within. But calling it "lazy" is like Masaru Daimon's accusation: lame. It's STUPID. It's full of crap. Ideas used again or not, a lot of money and hard work are spent on these four zones alone so we can play them. Claiming that no effort was placed in episode one makes you look stupid and shows that you have no clue how much sweat and time are placed in here.

I agree that the physics can be a bit of an issue (I'd definitely would like physics to be much smoother compared to some of the physics gaffes that were featured in the Classics due to technology limitation), but that still can be fixed in due time. Beta versions are still being tested out for gaffes, flaws, and whatever that needs to be fixed.

As I'm "blindly" assuming that they'll do the exact same copy-pasting for future Episodes as they are for Episode 1, don't go blindly assuming that they won't. Sure I have no evidence, but neither do you.

Agreed. But your words indicate that the next two episodes will likely HAVE reused badniks and whatnot. We don't know. Repeating: the next two episodes might not even be in development.

Plus, there is a reason why Sonic 4 is in three sections and not all grouped at once. It's to get feedback. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony created this online gaming system as a way to "share" completed games. "Completed" is the operative word. Unlike MegaMan 9 and 10, Episode 1 is a third of the game. Only sections are developed at a time as a way to "cheat" this system. The game is developed this way to IMPROVE the subsequent episodes and make them even better. Dimps is developing the game in a rather clever way.

BTW, you're still blindly claiming that Episode 1 is a copy-paste job. Guess what? It's not. They can't just slap badniks and level pieces from an old game into a new one. That is lazy. Their layouts are mostly different,

there are unique level gimmicks, which we haven't seen in a main 2D game in a while,

and the physics are different. There's the homing attack, which wasn't featured much in 2D gameplay, and it affects the gameplay. It plays like the Classics, but doesn't duplicate it. Episode 1 actually plays differently compared to the Classic Trilogy. And despite looking the same, or should I say, these level aesthetics are INSPIRED by the Classics, it doesn't completely play the same.

All these levels have to be designed very carefully to fit into the direction of the art, music score, and levels. EVERYTHING. They must be observed and approved by the directors, which are Sega, Takashi Iizuka more specifically.

And these badniks and bosses ain't just copied-and-pasted, either. Claiming that's the case is just plain bull-rubbishing and just tells me that you don't know what you're talking about. Talk to them personally and tell them that in their faces; you'll get LAUGHED AT. Iizuka and any professional game/graphic designer will tear you apart way worse than I am, and they can be fierce and passionate with their profession. These designs are prerendered in 3D. It isn't just taking 2D sprites and creating sequences to fit into the stage time frame. They have to be created with some form of 3D program like Maya; with the details that the 2D sprites have already, that can be very tedious to replicate, and it gets worse if you make a silly snag and must get it approved completely by the directors. You talk about one design that may take anywhere from three days to two weeks. If there's a lot of detail needed to finish, it's much longer.

Do I wish that there were newer badniks and newer bosses? Definitely. I'd love that, too. But that won't happen. At least not yet.

What I do have is a little something to make edjucated assumptions on; Episode 1 is all but rehashed, is it that absurd to guess that Episode 2 and 3 won't take the same route? When all I see is lazy copies of Sonic 1 & 2 where is your evidence that this is all some "ploy" to reel us in at which point we will be dazzled and amazed by some originality they had up their sleeve. Oh wait, you don't have any.

Again, I agree with it not being as original as hoped.

The level gimmicks, quests, and subtle change(s) in the first boss will catch attention.

Calling Dimps's work of Episode 1 "lazy," however, is full of B.S. And, yes, it IS absurd to say that the next two episodes will be "rehashed," too, because we don't know yet if they will. It could be the other way around, too.

Next time, actually know what you're talking about. You're not looking like you know what you're saying, especially with the drivel you just posted.

LOL. Trying to mock me by using my words, eh? How laughable of you.

Oh and I don't beleive mimickry is the highest form of flattery, I do however believe it's good to use for irony - like when someone else is hypocritical.

Me, hypocritical? LOL. Looks like I can safely say who's being hypocritical, and it ain't me, especially since you still don't have a clue how much work was made in this.

If you want "lazy," point your direction to Sonic Genesis GBA and its AWFUL porting.

Oh Gee mister, I've seen the error of my ways! [/sarcasm] Hmm no I won't discontinue my opinions on the Sonic series, they are my opinions afterall, just because you throw a few insults around doesn't mean everyone can't be entitled to thier own opinions.

Let me make you one thing plain and clear. Just because you have an opinion does not give you a free pass. If you state an "opinion" and mesh it with logic that makes no sense, then you're not going to hold back the floodgates. Expect me or some other guy to call you out and criticize you piece by piece. Your logic behind the game being "lazy" and how Sega's partially responsible for the leaks does not make sense. You have just about no understanding of the current events at all. You clearly haven't paid any close attention, and it's all evident through your posts.

And, yes, your viewpoint of the Sonic series IS backwards and not very knowledgeable. From the classics to the modern games, there's so much to talk about, analyze, and depict. It's not just "visuals," and mostly hating a game due to its visuals trivializes the value of a series and the contents within. I may not like Heroes's story, but hating the game for that? If I had that attitude, then guys like ChaosSupremeSonic or Flamerstreak will slam me for good reason. It's backwards logic. (CSS actually criticized me for being pessimistic of Sonic 4 months ago, and he couldn't be more RIGHT.) There's way more than visuals. You say Unleashed isn't Sonic-like. Sorry, but you're wrong. Unleashed DOES fit into the mold of the Sonic world, and does it nicely with its blend of surrealism, cartoon, and bright (almost psychedelic) colors. It's a clever and balanced mesh of so many ideas -- graphically, gameplay-wise, and character-wise -- put together, both the Wii/PS2 and 360/PS3 versions. Trying to even pretend this game doesn't exist is just being trivial and shows that you need to take the shades off. Plus, you need to understand the characters better, especially with how you've described Chip and TAILS in this game and how you WANTED Tails to be in it, where their roles -- even stripped away of their backstories and switched -- still won't fit.

I believe Sonic 4 is lazy, a lazy rehash with the redundant homing attack added in and terrible music. Sure it will be decent to play compared to recent titles, but that isn't hard, especially when they've played it so safe that they've just recreated what they already know people have enjoyed but just added a splash of HD. Declaring this as Sonic 4 means it should've been so much more....you don't give us Sonic 1.5HD and claim it to be Sonic 4.

Read my reply of your comment of Episode 1 being lazy.

And, yes, this IS Sonic 4. Specifically, Sonic 4: Episode 1. We can't clump all three into one now. There's a lot more coming, and it could be really interesting. It's great to speculate, but that's all we can do now.

And now all Sega needs to do is keep taunting us -- as they SHOULD -- so we can keep looking forward to their games.