Sonic's religion

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic never really said anything offensive to Merlina, or at least that's what I thought.

I understand Sonic stopping Merlina from creating a living hell of demons, but I mean him stopping Merlina from creating an eternal world in general. Sonic should have no problem with that as long as nobody gets killed.

Well, the thing is, you can have too much of a good thing, sometimes. Even without the monsters, there's still the possibility that everyone in that world would go insane from boredom, because they'd be doing the same activities over and over.

[Eternal_Dreamer]

I understand that some may be bored with a world that never ends. That could be a downside. But if they are bored, then the world truly hasn't lasted forever. A true world that truly lasts forever is a world that always remains fun. A world that is timeless in both life and excitement.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Eternal_Dreamer

[Flyboy Fox]

And how is Sonic supposed to have an Adventure... if the World is to end.

If Sonic wants the world to end, then why does he save the world?

Sonic doesn't "want" the world to end. He just wants nature to take its course, to not be interfered with. For life to go on rather than being stuck in unchanging limbo forever. If life going on eventually means a natural end, a death, then he'd prefer that over a static artificial 'life' where nothing is actually allowed to progress and move on.

A life that never ends brings more and more adventures. When you die... you die. Sure, you can have adventures in the afterlife.

No, a life that never ends would actually be a living hell. There would never be anything fresh and new, nor aged and wise. Only eternal existence that never leads anywhere except into monotony and eventual madness. There could never be a Spring again, because nothing could ever die to be renewed. How horrible.

And why would Sonic just butt into Merlina's business if the she was SIMPLY trying to create a neverending world. If she wasn't gonna kill anybody.

Killing isn't the only crime worth intervening with. An eternal prison of timelessness could even be worse than the eventual release of death. Things are meant to be born, live, and die. To mess with that is to think oneself a God and attempt control over the liberty of all living things - their right to live, and their right to expire so that something new can take their place and continue the cycle.

In fact, the cycle of life and death is far more eternal than a single frozen eternity with no continuing cycle.

And immortality is awesome. Why would Sonic want to die? If he wanted to die, he could die anytime. But he doesn't go around killing himself. He stays alive. Sonic always forward. You can still be immortal and go forward. A never ending path is always awesome. Like in Open Your Heart.

Way to miss the point. Sonic doesn't want to die right now. He's not in any way suicidal, and he'll cling to life as long as he can - while still respecting nature's innate right to take that life from him one day. Life is far more precious when you realise your time is measured and metered. Why would you do anything if there was always tomorrow? And even if you did, there'd come a tomorrow when you'd done everything you wanted to do and you'd be tired of living. And then, you slip into a peaceful slumber knowing that you lived a full and productive life and made your mark on an ever changing and evolving world.

I never said anything about things changing. About Sonic not wanting new things to come in life. Of course he wants new things to appear in his life. An immortal life is to always bring new things. And since Sonic prefers to not be bored all the time, he could live in a world that remains fun TIMELESSLY. That is the true meaning of something lasting forever.

Eternal life doesn't automatically come with eternal patience. Eventually any amount of fun will wear down your spirit and you'll be tired and want to stop.

The Black Knight is not canon because it interferes with Sonic's core personality.

I disagree.

[Eternal_Dreamer]

If Sonic doesn't want it, then why would he go by it?

Yes, yes, Sonic is a guy that lives by nature. But how do you know if he had the chance to live in a life in never ending adventure... and he accept or not accept it? By "never ending adventure", I mean a world where adventures always come. How can there be an adventure if the world is over? And would Sonic want to become an old man? Most people want to stay young.

And could you people PLEASE tell where Merlina said she wanted to make a world of frozen time? Is immortality "frozen time" now?

AND what you said about "living hell" is just a matter of opinion. And a world that never ends would always have spring, winter, and changing seasons. Based on you posts, you guys seem to be misinterpreting a entire world with a time period.

And no sir, there should be a world where fun never ends. Sonic wants fun to not end.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Eternal_Dreamer

[BlazingTales]

I understand that some may be bored with a world that never ends. That could be a downside. But if they are bored, then the world truly hasn't lasted forever. A true world that truly lasts forever is a world that always remains fun. A world that is timeless in both life and excitement.

But Merlina's means of doing this would mean nothing could change. That means no flowers can wilt, no children can grow, no people can change, everything would be preserved. What good is a world stuck in the same season?

Maybe Sonic wasn't referring to all never-ending "worlds" in general... I don't know how he feels about reincarnation and/or resurrection.

[Blazey Firekitty]

If Sonic doesn't want it, then why would he go by it?

Yes, yes, Sonic is a guy that lives by nature. But how do you know if he had the chance to live in a life in never ending adventure... and he accept or not accept it? By "never ending adventure", I mean a world where adventures always come. How can there be an adventure if the world is over? And would Sonic want to become an old man? Most people want to stay young.

And could you people PLEASE tell where Merlina said she wanted to make a world of frozen time? Is immortality "frozen time" now?

And no sir, there should be a world where fun never ends. Sonic wants fun to not end.

Dude, you're thinking of things in overly black and white absolutes.

Firstly, even if Sonic's body was old, he could be young in spirit. Heck, he's already done that in a recent Archie comic storyline from last year.

Secondly, Sonic is not stopping the world from ending. He is just stopping it from staying the same.

Thirdly, torture is usually worse than death, and immortality is not the same thing as eternal bliss. It could very easily become a kind of torture. It's not enough to have something, you have to have it the way you wan it.

[Flyboy Fox]

No, Eternal. Immortality does NOT equal endless adventure and fun. Youth may be eternal, but the spirit grows weary, no matter how much you might "want" to live forever. Endless fun? Endless horror too. Never seeing new life because the old life never fades away to be reborn. Monotony prevails. Immortality brings only staleness and the inability to move forward. There can be no more children, because no one will ever die to make room for them. People feel they can do whatever they want and have no respect for the sanctity of life, because they know they will never die. Chaos and anarchy reigns. It would be a nightmare. I don't see the fun in that AT ALL.

Edit:

AND what you said about "living hell" is just a matter of opinion. And a world that never ends would always have spring, winter, and changing seasons. Based on you posts, you guys seem to be misinterpreting a entire world with a time period.

How can there be seasons if life is immortal? If nothing can die, nothing can be renewed to take its place.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Another thing I just thought of...

Sonic was revealed to be the real King Arthur, right?

If the story could never end, then Sonic would be stuck in the book. No more non-Camelot Sonic adventures.O_o

[Eternal_Dreamer]

Child that do not grow are cool. Eternal youth is always awesome. Why exactly somebody want to become an old man? Old people do rock... but they become old because they can't help it. I like Peter Pan, OK? And Sonic is cooler when most similar to Peter Pan.

I am saying, based on his personality, Sonic enjoys being as young as possible because that makes it easier for him to do what he does? Why somebody like Sonic want to retire from the hero business.

[Saint Nathan]

And could you people PLEASE tell where Merlina said she wanted to make a world of frozen time? Is immortality "frozen time" now?

It always has been. Immortality means that you do not grow older or younger, and nothing in your body changes, except possibly your personality.

Apply that to an entire world, and yes, time would stop. No seasons, no new birth, nothing new ever.

[Indigo Rush]

I'm pretty sure Chao can reincarnate.

Just sayin'.

[Eternal_Dreamer]

A world that goes on forever is to have changes seasons, changing time, and more. The cycle of time would always repeat itself.

How can anything new happen... if the world has ended?! IF THERE IS NO WORLD.

[Rusty Spy]

Here's your answer to everything:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=L97lJW0ebDo

The Black Knight is not canon because it interferes with Sonic's core personality.

And that's HARDLY scratching the surface. His dialogue in game and between Caliburn just SCREAMS Sonic.

Black Knight EMPHASIZED his personality more than every other game since Adventure 2.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Black Spy

[Eternal_Dreamer]

Hey, I thought Sonic was overall portrayed very awesomely in SatBK. Just the ending is what I can't stand.

[Blazey Firekitty]

A world that goes on forever is to have changes seasons, changing time, and more. The cycle of time would always repeat itself.

How can anything new happen... if the world has ended?! IF THERE IS NO WORLD.

Dreamer, he wasn't going to destroy the world.

The fact that Camelot did not explode after Sonic defeated Merlina is a testament to that(Although that would have unintentionally hilarious. I'm sick of of this Dungeons and Dragons campaign! Rocks fall, everyone dies!).

[Flyboy Fox]

A world that goes on forever is to have changes seasons, changing time, and more. The cycle of time would always repeat itself.

No. Because everything is immortal. The trees cannot become barren and the leaves die and fall to allow for new spring buds. Everything remains the SAME. There is no 'cycle', because the very word 'cycle' implies a beginning... and and END, before the cycle can start anew.

How can anything new happen... if the world has ended?! IF THERE IS NO WORLD.

It is natural for all things to end eventually. While our world will one day die, others are just being born. We may not live to see it, but we are all a part of it. It would not be possible for us to exist without the change and progress that comes from the passing of time... and the continuous cycle of life, death, and new life. New people bring new ideas. New life brings new adaptations. We progress. We evolve. And we love life and preserve it with love because we know we won't have it forever. I think that's beautiful and is what makes life worth living for every moment.

[Eternal_Dreamer]

Well, the thing is, you can have too much of a good thing, sometimes. Even without the monsters, there's still the possibility that everyone in that world would go insane from boredom, because they'd be doing the same activities over and over.

If the world ends, it's basically destroyed. Merlina was trying to prevent Camelot from being destroyed. How is that any different from Sonic preventing the world from being destroyed?

Well, I can see where you guys are going with that last post? Flowers and trees die to make room for all seasons? But, by that logic, we should all die to make room for newcomers in the world?

I don't think so. Every man for himself.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Eternal_Dreamer

[Blazey Firekitty]

If the world ends, it's basically destroyed. Merlina was trying to prevent Camelot from being destroyed. How is that any different from Sonic preventing the world from being destroyed?

The reign of King Arthur as king would be destroyed. Not the literal planet everyone was standing on. Someone else could take over as king, like I don't know, Galahad(Silver) or Lammorak(Jet) Maybe Percival could take over, Merlina didn't say anything bad would happen to her.

Edited February 26, 2010 by BlazeyBakeneko

[Diogenes]

And how is Sonic supposed to have an Adventure... if the World is to end.

It's not as if the planet is going to explode. It's the kingdom that's going to end.

If Sonic wants the world to end,

You really don't get it, do you? Sonic doesn't "want" the world to end, but it's not his choice.

then why does he save the world? Silver was trying to go back in time to prevent Iblis... as Merlina was trying to prevent her Kingdom from being destroyed. But Merlina also meant destroying others, which is exactly why Sonic had to stop her.

There's also the difference of Sonic and Silver trying to make things better for people whereas Merlina is twisting the world because she can't deal with loss.

Really, tell me where it was said or implied that Merlina was trying to create a world out of frozen time?

Mourning individual flowers, for one. And, really, what else would she do with an immortality-granting scabbard for a kingdom that's destined to fall apart because Lancelot and Gawain can't get along?

And why would Sonic just butt into Merlina's business if the she was SIMPLY trying to create a neverending world. If she wasn't gonna kill anybody.

Yeah, she was merely perverting the natural order with a corrupting artifact to create a world where nothing died and nothing ended so she wouldn't be sad. Yeah, nothing wrong with that...

And immortality is awesome.

Not really.

The Black Knight is not canon because it interferes with Sonic's core personality.

No, it doesn't.

[Saint Nathan]

A world that goes on forever is to have changes seasons, changing time, and more. The cycle of time would always repeat itself.

How can anything new happen... if the world has ended?! IF THERE IS NO WORLD.

Here's an idea for you, because you're obvious a little kid and don't understand.

Continuity != Immortality.

For something to be continuous, it must move though time for a very, very long time. Space is continuous. The Earth is continuous (at least to this point)

However, to place immortality on the whole of the Earth would be horrid. Nothing would age or die, and while seasons would pass, time itself would not. Seasons are not time based, they are based around the Earth moving.

Merlina however, wanted to make Camelot immortal. Not the whole Earth. Pretty much implied she was moving it out of time, not just making everything live forever.

Sonic does NOT want to live forever, but he's not about to give Death an easy time either. He wants to LIVE LIFE, not LIVE FOREVER, he can submit to the idea of Death, so he's not bothered by it, he just doesn't even worry about it.

Sonic is not at ALL like Peter Pan. Peter Pan did not want eternal fun, so much as he was AFRAID of Death, a fear Sonic does not have.

[Rusty Spy]

If the world ends, it's basically destroyed. Merlina was trying to prevent Camelot from being destroyed. How is that any different from Sonic preventing the world from being destroyed?

Which is not what Merlina was trying to do. She tried to make a world that stayed in the same state for all of eternity so that the kingdom would never end, and thus, so that NOTHING ever ended.

Camelot would eventually be destroyed, and the story would end, but life would still go on as normally, something that Merlina feared.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Black Spy

[Vertekins]

First, I don't see where it is said anywhere in the game that Merlina's preservation of the Grand Kingdom would lead to ruination and death. That seems to be a fabrication made by Excalibur and Excalibur Sonic as well as the line of Caliburn's that suggests that she's willing to sacrifice countless lives just to escape her own sorrow. How? How would Merlina's plan involve killing if it's a plan to put the kingdom in a state of preservation? She doesn't seem to be a villainess who is so evil to the point of committing mass murder. I'd say that Sonic and Caliburn were as bigoted as Merlina was. Also, if you have the skill to unlock the part of the Vault that features the voices of 'KNIGHT OF THE WIND AND SACRED SWORD', you'll find voices that don't appear to have been used in the games final battle, lines that indicate snarky and insulting dialogue concerning Merlina between Excalibur and Excalibur Sonic.

If it was the story's fate to have a premature end in a senseless and pointless manner resulting in the ends of innocents, I'd say that Merlina's aim was actually benevolent. The only thing wrong with it was that it was going against nature.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Verte

[Flyboy Fox]

Well, I can see where you guys are going with that last post? Flowers and trees die to make room for all seasons? But, by that logic, we should all die to make room for newcomers in the world?

I don't think so. Every man for himself.

How selfish. If you ancestors had been able to live forever and refused to give up that privilege ever, even after a long and fruitful existence, YOU wouldn't exist right now.

[Eternal_Dreamer]

Who WANTS to deal with loss? Sonic obviously doesn't want to see so much sorrow. Look here

Merlina: How can you not understand my loss (or sorrow, whatever)?

Sonic: I don't want to! *charges at Merlina*

As Merlina was trying to avoid her kingdom's destruction, Sonic was trying not to understand her pain. See? He was trying to avoid something as she was. If Merlina was just trying to make Camelot immortal... if her idea was as SIMPLE as that (when it wasn't), then why should Sonic care?

And another point of mine is, if Sonic had the choice of making things how he wanted. If somebody was immortal, they wouldn't have to go through the worries of death. How is that not awesome. As for the TVTropes, what if everything you cared about was immortal? Honestly, what was the point of bringing up the article.

And how would I not exist if my ancestors were still alive? Last I checked, reproduction does not come from sacrifice. It comes from sex for Krust's sake.

And Sonic is like Peter Pan. If Sonic's not afraid of death, then shouldn't he already be dead?

Edited February 27, 2010 by Eternal_Dreamer

[Blazey Firekitty]

Who WANTS to deal with loss? Sonic obviously doesn't want to see so much sorrow. Look here

Merlina: How can you not understand my loss (or sorrow, whatever)?

Sonic: I don't want to! *charges at Merlina*

Dealing with loss doesn't have to mean masochistically telling yourself that you "deserve" it. It can mean realizing that the loss isn't quite as bad as it seems. Fear often comes from a lack of understanding, and sometimes that which we don't understand isn't so scary after all.

As Merlina was trying to avoid her kingdom's destruction, Sonic was trying not to understand her pain. See? He was trying to avoid something as she was.

It's not that he didn't care, it's that she was all hopped up on wacky demon magic at the time and was temporarily insane.

And another point of mine is, if Sonic had the choice of making things how he wanted. If somebody was immortal, they wouldn't have to go through the worries of death. How is that not awesome. As for the TVTropes, what if everything you cared about was immortal? Honestly, what was the point of bringing up the article.

And how would I not exist if my ancestors were still alive? Last I checked, reproduction does not come from sacrifice. It comes from sex for Krust's sake.

Dreamer, let me put it this way. Let's put aside notions of being selfish or unselfish. Would you want to be immortal if it meant being stuffed in a coffin or a small room for all eternity? I certainly would not, nor would I wish that upon anyone, not even the worst people.