Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[NoKaine]

If your problem is that they are aping from the wrong game, that's not really a problem. Shit, whether or not it's Adventure or boost gameplay doesn't have anything to do with that point anyway. It's not a boost game because of Zelda or Mario lol.

For an "open zone" game like this, a structure similar to Mario Odyssey or Bowser's Fury is exactly what I wanted out of the game.

[Shiny Gems]

1 hour ago, NoKaine said:

If your problem is that they are aping from the wrong game, that's not really a problem. Shit, whether or not it's Adventure or boost gameplay doesn't have anything to do with that point anyway. It's not a boost game because of Zelda or Mario lol.

For an "open zone" game like this, a structure similar to Mario Odyssey or Bowser's Fury is exactly what I wanted out of the game.

I would like to add, there is nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other games, like Zelda or Mario. I mean, people do this kind of thing all the time, and I do not see why Sonic should be an exception. Technically, it should be okay for even Sonic games to take inspiration from other game series.

Now, I would understand if people say they should have tried something new or add a twist to it to make a game like Sonic Frontiers substantial and different just to stand out. I do understand that. However, that is pretty much easier said than done, and game companies like Sega or Sonic Team do not have the time to come up with something so innovative to try and make something like Sonic Frontiers different from the games that inspired it. Still, adding something new is not always needed, and the ones who have played the game have liked it so far, with or without a twist to it to make it different from similar games.

[Zoomzeta]

5 hours ago, light-gaia said:

Breath of the Wild isn't as original as people claim it is. Almost all of its mechanics were implemented by other open world games before. Including the Koroks' quest. The hero of the story having amnesia isn't something Botw invented, either. (Actually, none of the Zelda stories are that original).

Originally, as a concept, is near impossible to achieve, as everything derives from something whether we acknowledge it or not. I think a better word for what I would define BOTW is innovative and influential, personally speaking. 

[Sean]

Nobody gives a shit whether or not BOTW is unoriginal because it's just an amazing game, ratioed

[Kuzu]

Yea, it really is that simple. Breath of the Wild is considered a landmark game, so people are willing to excuse some of its shortcomings.

[NoKaine]

Ironically, Breath of the Wild's shortcomings are more often cited as the things that Zelda traditionally has, like the dungeons and the story.

I'm not the kind of person who thinks it's a "bad Zelda game", though.

[Shiny Gems]

I am not sure if Breath of the Wild being unoriginal is the point here. I mean, sure it is a landmark game, but I thought that (and correct me if I am wrong) that drawing inspiration from such a game was what we were talking about. To me, who did it first before Breath of the Wild does not matter, only games taking inspiration from Breath of the Wild, like the game we are talking about, Sonic Frontiers. I am not sure if anyone else was talking about who did the open world thing before Breath of the Wild. Not that it possibly matters though, because the open world concept isn't really copyrighted by anyone, meaning anyone could do it, whether Nintendo, Sega, etc.

[GeAr-DX]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:23 PM, SSF1991 said:

I don't think Sonic is protected by anything.

Sonic can't even appear as a balloon in a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade without some people going "hey remember that lamp post incident from 30 years ago? XD".

Stopping to think about it. Isn't so strange how literally people come from any place to attack Sonic? No matter what is.

9 hours ago, light-gaia said:

Breath of the Wild isn't as original as people claim it is. Almost all of its mechanics were implemented by other open world games before. Including the Koroks' quest. The hero of the story having amnesia isn't something Botw invented, either. (Actually, none of the Zelda stories are that original).

Like a lot of things that the gamming community keeps saying that Nintendo invented or was 100% original. Like motion control, 3D plataforming, lock-on system,sholder buttons, digital pad, 3D planets with individual gravity, real time night-day cycle, kart games, side-scrolling and so much more.

[light-gaia]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

Nobody gives a shit whether or not BOTW is unoriginal because it's just an amazing game, ratioed

Being a good game is more important than being original. So, I don't care if Sonic Frontiers is inspired by other games, as long as the final product end up being good.

[Kuzu]

It probably won't be.

[McGroose]

13 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

It probably won't be.

That's the spirit 

Won't stop most of you all from buying it though 

[Kuzu]

16 minutes ago, McGroose said:

That's the spirit 

Won't stop most of you all from buying it though 

Haven't bought a Sonic game for money since Mania, but good luck to the rest of you. 

[light-gaia]

34 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

It probably won't be.

 

What matters the most is if I'll enjoy the product or not. I don't enjoy Zelda Breath of the Wild. The weapons' durability mechanic, how all the bosses are almost the same, and the lack of Zelda traditional elements (such as dungeons).

I prefer Zelda Skyward Sword over Botw, even though it's probably the most divisive Zelda 3D game.

A game being critically acclaimed and praised by most people doesn't mean it's going to be a game I'll have fun playing. Being a good or a bad game is subjective, anyway.

Trying to defend the existence of a universal truth about a game being good or bad is a lost cause.

From what we know about Frontiers', I'll probably enjoy it. I'm only concerned about the reused levels.

 

[StaticMania]

I want to buy this...

[McGroose]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Haven't bought a Sonic game for money since Mania, but good luck to the rest of you. 

Me too, man.

Well, unless you count the tree fiddy I spent on Lost World

Honestly makes me wonder why we're even here anymore  

[Dummy Bear]

I don't know about you guys I'm still here because even though everyone loves to dogshit on the 3D Sonic games, they've been some of my favorite games and ones I still go back and play. Yes there have been some absolute stinkers like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, but even those have their charm to them and have gone on to even have their own fanbases both ironically AND unironically. For me, the fun I get from the games outweigh the duds.

We need to stop treating games like businesses and like tribal sports teams, stop getting so hung up on objectivity and instead treat them as subjective works of art.

[Sapphirine Wind]

Just now, Slash said:

I don't know about you guys I'm still here because even though everyone loves to dogshit on the 3D Sonic games, they've been some of my favorite games and ones I still go back and play. Yes there have been some absolute stinkers like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, but even those have their charm to them and have gone on to even have their own fanbases both ironically AND ironically.

We need to stop treating games like businesses and like tribal sports teams and instead treat them as subjective works of art.

yeah, this is about how I feel. All the games I like tend to get crapped on a lot. You ask some people, Forces is somehow 06 2, if you ask me, I had a lot of fun with it. It's not that I don't recognize their flaws, they're just not deal breakers for me.

[Dummy Bear]

32 minutes ago, Sapphirine Wind said:

yeah, this is about how I feel. All the games I like tend to get crapped on a lot. You ask some people, Forces is somehow 06 2, if you ask me, I had a lot of fun with it. It's not that I don't recognize their flaws, they're just not deal breakers for me.

I always found it funny how people treat Forces as if it's some demon spawn.

I have my problems with the game myself by my problems mainly stem from the fact that the game is too casualized, too easy, and plays it safe. Not exactly game of the year but not exactly the disasterpiece everyone makes it out to be.

Certainly not gonna dog people who like it, though. It was a victim of overhyping and underdelivering.

I can think of worse things to spend $20 on($10 on sale for Xbox)

[Cornelius Fudge]

I can't sympathize with these claims at all. I think Forces' design philosophy is definitely criminal when this is the only 3D Sonic game that we were promised after 4-5 years. That's a significant time to wait when there's no other mainline Sonic games being released within that timeframe other than Sonic Mania which released a few months prior. It was marketed as one of the highest stakes battles Sonic has ever encountered. Eggman finally managed to seize control over the world, there's a new villain out there that makes it happen, and the return of Sonic's greatest villains he's ever battled. As such, there were high hopes that the story would be promising but instead, it was just an incoherent snoozefest with abysmal writing.

This would have been forgivable had we gotten gameplay that you would expect from a team that "developed Colors and Generations". At least then, we would have had a Sonic game with the quality level design that Generations had featured. Instead, we had overly simplistic and linear level design with no skill curve that borrowed the worst aspects Colors had with its slow and blocky platforming. On top of that, Sonic controlled very poorly which is a huge detriment in a platformer.

That's not to say it's as unplayable as 06 but I definitely sympathize with people who were extremely disappointed by it and refer to it as an embarrassment for years to come. The game was marketed as a significant title for the series that we were adamantly waiting for 4-5 years. But instead, it was an embarrassing regression from Generations and even Unleashed which first set the foundation for the boost gameplay. How they messed up the controls so horribly is beyond me but they did. The game deserves every sort of criticism it received. It wasn't an unplayable mess but it was certainly was an utter embarrassment. One that caused Sega to constantly market its mobile counterpart rather than their actual mainline game...

[Zoomzeta]

...So we agree originality is a hopeless thing to attain? 

[GeAr-DX]

4 hours ago, light-gaia said:

What matters the most is if I'll enjoy the product or not. I don't enjoy Zelda Breath of the Wild. The weapons' durability mechanic, how all the bosses are almost the same, and the lack of Zelda traditional elements (such as dungeons).

I prefer Zelda Skyward Sword over Botw, even though it's probably the most divisive Zelda 3D game.

A game being critically acclaimed and praised by most people doesn't mean it's going to be a game I'll have fun playing. Being a good or a bad game is subjective, anyway.

Trying to defend the existence of a universal truth about a game being good or bad is a lost cause.

From what we know about Frontiers', I'll probably enjoy it. I'm only concerned about the reused levels.

You're not alone in this boat.

I didn't enjoyed BOTW. but I do like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess.

And the thing everyone is saying about buying or not, I will totally buy Frontiers.

[John43]

8 hours ago, Slash said:

I always found it funny how people treat Forces as if it's some demon spawn.

I have my problems with the game myself by my problems mainly stem from the fact that the game is too casualized, too easy, and plays it safe. Not exactly game of the year but not exactly the disasterpiece everyone makes it out to be.

Certainly not gonna dog people who like it, though. It was a victim of overhyping and underdelivering.

I can think of worse things to spend $20 on($10 on sale for Xbox)

I have a new found appreciation for Forces. Since I watched my friend, who has severe ADHD and Autism, concentration problems and he cant really play games that well, but then I watched him play Forces, and saw how the level design saved him from the typical deathtraps you deal with in more challenging games. The game really is designed for casual players and he got through it and thought it was awesome. That really made me smile and see Forces in a new light. It isn’t fantastic, but isn’t the worst game in the series by far.

[light-gaia]

I enjoy most 3D Sonic games developed by Sonic Team.

- Sonic Adventure 1&2: I like

- Sonic Heroes: one of my favorites

- Shadow the Hedgehog: I like, too. Despite the bad storytelling 

- Sonic 2006: unfortunately, I don't enjoy and never finished because of that

- Sonic Unleashed: love both versions

- Storybook series: love both games

- Sonic Colors: I like, despite the bad dialogue

- Sonic Generations: it's not one of my favorites because it started the trend of milking nostalgia, it's too short and easy, but overall, I still enjoy

- Sonic Lost World: I like and played a lot back on my Wii U

- Sonic Forces: I don't like that much because half of the game is Green Hill and Chemical Plant, the stages are too short and easy, and I don't like the inclusion of classic Sonic. 

I acknowledge most of these games have flaws, but they aren't deal breakers for me, and I still have a lot of fun playing them.

7 hours ago, ART-DX said:

You're not alone in this boat.

I didn't enjoyed BOTW. but I do like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess.

And the thing everyone is saying about buying or not, I will totally buy Frontiers.

Participating in Zelda communities I discovered that a lot of other long time Zelda fans don't like Breath of the Wild

9 hours ago, Zoomzeta said:

...So we agree originality is a hopeless thing to attain? 

I've never cared about the lack of originality in Zelda Breath of the Wild or any other game. My problem is when people act like Zelda invented grass and open fields and act like games that have these elements are copying Zelda

[Hidden04]

 

[Wraith]

Obviously Zelda didn't invent this tropes but be honest: Do you think that they would have landed on this on their own? Lol. If BOTW hadn't come out or hadn't been as warmly received, do you think Sonic Frontiers would exist? The entire Japanese side of the industry has been studying this game and what it managed to pull off and for good reason.

My problem isn't that they ripped off BOTW, it's that they did it in a completely thoughtless way.  What do slow paced puzzles and extensive combat sequences have to do with what made the previous Sonic games good? What does miles and miles of empty field to cross through add? Wasn't the strength of the original series it's dense, packed level design? Why go in the opposite direction?

Do they have these elements for good reasons or do they have them because Zelda had them?

Since BOTW is the comparison here...they managed to steal Ubisoft towers and made them work in a way that fit the Zelda series pretty perfectly. Instead of telling you where everything is, their guidance is much more subdued and the act of climbing them is treated more like a classic Zelda movement/navigation puzzle.

There's no such thing as a completely original work of art, but BOTW combined disparate elements with some unique ideas of it's own to create what felt like an original experience that still fit the identity of the series.

Sonic Frontiers feels like the opposite. It's cribbing from other games but not in a way that really makes sense or feeds into what I think are Sonic/Sonic Team's strong points. Like, there are a few decent puzzles in Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Colors, sure, but combat? Have they ever gotten that right? Does anything about this game show that they're going to get it right this time?

I'll be honest: I've wanted a Sonic: Breath of the Wild for a long time, but I was thinking more about the approach Nintendo took when developing the game instead of copying it's surface level elements. A game about rediscovering the roots of the series without losing sight of the good things they managed to find when they went off track.