Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[Cosmos Rogue]

2 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Modern Sonic has different proportions compared to 2006 Sonic and Adventure Sonic. They are different character designs.

Adventure Sonic and Adventure 2 Sonic wear different shoes. Are you going to argue that those are different character designs too?

[Dummy Bear]

13 minutes ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

Adventure Sonic and Adventure 2 Sonic wear different shoes. Are you going to argue that those are different character designs too?

At least he listed body proportions. You just mentioned clothing.

Also, the answer is no to both. They're tweaks, not redesigns.

[light-gaia]

3 minutes ago, Slash said:

At least he listed body proportions. You just mentioned clothing.

Also, the answer is no to both.

If changing body proportions cannot be considered redesigning a character. Sonic has the same design since the classic era. That's obviously not the case.

18 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Frontiers' style problem isn't an issue of him clashing with the world, the issue is that the world aesthetic is just flat out bland.

In this one instance of the overworld, we actually have a strong color pallet working for the aesthetic as a whole. You have the tried and true Green, Grey, and Blue sky that makes up any basic plain or field location, but on top of that you have the accents of the red and white flowers, the red and silver construction structures left by Eggman, and the odd tan ruins in the background peppering the landscape. This world looks visually striking and distinct, and Sonic feels right at home with the floating ruins in the background in the same way he would in Angel Island or Planet Wisp.

That's simply not how the overworld looks all the time, however.

90% of the time with this overworld, it's going to be dominated by only a single location and it's resulting color. That can either be the grassy greens of the fields, the overbearing grays along the cliffsides, or the overly realistic forests offering a mix of brown and dark green.

The first example was realistic, but also just as stylized and controlled as previous Sonic worlds and zones that people love for the aesthetic they pull off. When you step outside of that ideal area in a fully 3D and natural environment, though, you guarentee that you lose the controlled aesthetic that the zone would otherwise rely on. And in the process, all that is left behind is just photo realism. That's the core issue here; not that Sonic has been plopped into a location that he has been in before.

 

The same could apply to Planet Wisp if we were allowed to roam around an island, as well. I know the aesthetic of the planet is amazing on it's own, and far more unique than the first island we have here in Frontiers, but given enough time in forests, plains, and canyons, the intruige would wear off and be replaced with monotony.

The 3rd Frontiers image (the one that only has grass) it's the same location we saw in the recent gameplay footage but without a lot of elements.

[The Deleter]

4 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

The 3rd Frontiers image (the one that only has grass) it's the same location we saw in the recent gameplay footage but without a lot of elements.

In the demo the main difference in that area is Asura standing there. Whether we defeat it as soon as we reach the island or it spawns in at a later time in the actual campaign, that shot is still largely representative of the aesthetic we have to work with when running through the area before or after the fact.

[Cosmos Rogue]

7 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

If changing body proportions cannot be considered redesigning a character. Sonic has the same design since the classic era. That's obviously not the case.

Clearly we disagree on where the line is drawn for what should be considered a new character design and what is just a minor tweak, so I'm going to drop this point. My point that Sega and Sonic Team don't change Sonic's appearance enough alongside the rest of the games' artstyle still stands however.

[Dummy Bear]

33 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

If changing body proportions cannot be considered redesigning a character. Sonic has the same design since the classic era. That's obviously not the case.

The 3rd Frontiers image (the one that only has grass) it's the same location we saw in the recent gameplay footage but without a lot of elements.

I only say no because I personally don't consider modern era and adventure era Sonic redesigns per say but I can see how it can be seen as one. I personally never noticed until they were put side by side.

Also, you at least didn't try to use shoes as an example.

[SSF1991]

3 hours ago, ART-DX said:

Sonic isn't protected by a great wall of fanboys and media like Mario is.

I don't think Sonic is protected by anything.

Sonic can't even appear as a balloon in a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade without some people going "hey remember that lamp post incident from 30 years ago? XD".

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Slash said:

Initial immersion breaking aside, I actually LIKE the clashing art styles from a visual perspective. It's like Mario is walking thought different paintings.

I don't mind it for the most part outside of the extreme examples. The Ruined Kingdom Dragon Fight is just silly to me, for example and as funny as stuff like New Donk and the T Rex is at a glance I think it could have been executed better.

Most of the worlds do slight art shifts that look fine though. 

[___-_]

4 hours ago, light-gaia said:

Modern Sonic has different proportions compared to 2006 Sonic and Adventure Sonic. They are different character designs.

Hmm, that's more of a design tweak than a whole character redesign, tho.

How I go about it, I think of character tweaks more in line of altering the established rules you have for a character's design (Sonic CD opening Sonic is wildly different from even his own box art interpretation in the same game, but they're clearly the same character. His proportions are altered, but his basic premise is still made up of having a round stomach, straightened spiky quills and black eyes). Those are the "Classic Sonic" rules.

While a character redesign pretty much throws out all established rules for a reinterpretation of the same character. Sonic Adventure onward, besides the obvious green eyes, Modern Sonic is depicted to have longer, downward hanging quills, a slimmer oval shaped body and just longer limbs in general.

I will say though, going back to Frontiers, I'd like if they did change up Sonic a bit... only because I am growing kinda tired of seeing asset reuse from Sonic Team in general. It feels like I haven't seen Sonic being interpreted in any other way in over 40 yrs =P. At least with all the art changes from years back, Sonic's (and his friends') model accommodated with that change, whether the art style became gritty, realistic, semi, etc.

But ever since Unleashed, where at first it was a welcome breath of fresh air... they kinda just been using the same model but cycling the different art styles around Sonic and the rest after that, so it just becomes more apparent that some sort of change needs to happen. I know it's been minute from Unleashed -> Forces how Sonic evolved design, but it's just not enough for me personally. Iizuka's been saying he's considering this game part of a "new generation" now, so I wish Sonic's model reflected that.

[Zoomzeta]

5 hours ago, Slash said:

But I'm supposed to just believe that Mario and Paulina are natives from New Donk City?

No, you are to believe Mario and Pauline come from Brooklin, with Pauline having migrated to New Donk City and eventually becoming mayor...Does that sound insane? 

5 hours ago, Slash said:

So why is it a big deal when Sonic does it?

I don't know. Guess we're expected to take it all seriously? 

2 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

I don't think Sonic is protected by anything.

Sonic can't even appear as a balloon in a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade without some people going "hey remember that lamp post incident from 30 years ago? XD".

That's still funny...and traumatizing for any Sonic kid in that parade. 

[Razule]

Is the Brooklyn Mario lore even canon anymore..?

[StaticMania]

Since Mario 64...

As in, they have not referenced it...since then.

[ZinogreVolt]

5 hours ago, The Deleter said:

Frontiers' style problem isn't an issue of him clashing with the world, the issue is that the world aesthetic is just flat out bland.

In this one instance of the overworld, we actually have a strong color pallet working for the aesthetic as a whole. You have the tried and true Green, Grey, and Blue sky that makes up any basic plain or field location, but on top of that you have the accents of the red and white flowers, the red and silver construction structures left by Eggman, and the odd tan ruins in the background peppering the landscape. This world looks visually striking and distinct, and Sonic feels right at home with the floating ruins in the background in the same way he would in Angel Island or Planet Wisp.

That's simply not how the overworld looks all the time, however.

90% of the time with this overworld, it's going to be dominated by only a single location and it's resulting color. That can either be the grassy greens of the fields, the overbearing grays along the cliffsides, or the overly realistic forests offering a mix of brown and dark green.

The first example was realistic, but also just as stylized and controlled as previous Sonic worlds and zones that people love for the aesthetic they pull off. When you step outside of that ideal area in a fully 3D and natural environment, though, you guarentee that you lose the controlled aesthetic that the zone would otherwise rely on. And in the process, all that is left behind is just photo realism. That's the core issue here; not that Sonic has been plopped into a location that he has been in before.

 

The same could apply to Planet Wisp if we were allowed to roam around an island, as well. I know the aesthetic of the planet is amazing on it's own, and far more unique than the first island we have here in Frontiers, but given enough time in forests, plains, and canyons, the intruige would wear off and be replaced with monotony.

I love the way the field of red and white poppies look, especially how they scatter about in the breeze after the enemy explodes. Very effective grounding of the open world while being colorful and memorable in its own right. Hope we see more of that sort of stuff. I don't mind the "normal" looking environments as much as others, but the real world itself is filled with some pretty amazing vistas if you only look, so if they're going for something realistic, I hope they look at those.

 

[Zoomzeta]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

Is the Brooklyn Mario lore even canon anymore..?

The world may never know...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, ZinogreVolt said:

I love the way the field of red and white poppies look, especially how they scatter about in the breeze after the enemy explodes. Very effective grounding of the open world while being colorful and memorable in its own right. Hope we see more of that sort of stuff. I don't mind the "normal" looking environments as much as others, but the real world itself is filled with some pretty amazing vistas if you only look, so if they're going for something realistic, I hope they look at those.

That's essentially a very keen way to look at it.

At it's best so far, Frontiers does look pretty vibrant and striking, making the mundane seem spectacular in some cases.

Which is honestly something Sonic has been doing since his debut.

[Dummy Bear]

3 hours ago, ZinogreVolt said:

I love the way the field of red and white poppies look, especially how they scatter about in the breeze after the enemy explodes. Very effective grounding of the open world while being colorful and memorable in its own right. Hope we see more of that sort of stuff. I don't mind the "normal" looking environments as much as others, but the real world itself is filled with some pretty amazing vistas if you only look, so if they're going for something realistic, I hope they look at those.

Arranging the flowers to form checkerboard patterns probably wouldn't hurt.

If we're gonna do the checkerboard thing, might as well get creative with it instead of just sticking it on the walls and calling it a day.

[Pumkin_22]

On 6/20/2022 at 2:22 AM, pppp said:

First in 2013 they ape the most popular Nintendo game at the time(Galaxy) while still reusing Green Hill and Casino Night aesthetics.

Then in 2017 they reuse Green Hill and Chemical Plant

Now in 2022 they reuse more Generations levels again while once again aping the most popular Nintendo game at the time(BOTW).

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

So the only possible explanation to your question is insanity.

Sonic Team are by the very deifinition completely insane.

Um, have you ever heard about how people said that it isn't really like Zelda??

[NoKaine]

Frontiers is like Breath of the Wild because Breath of the Wild invented grass and towers (despite the fact that the tower does not serve the same purpose as the towers in Breath of the Wild at all) and open worlds and slow music.

It's exactly the same! lol

There are some things that do seem absolutely cribbed from Breath of the Wild like the "Kokos" or Sonic having amnesia (though needing to get your friends' memories back too is a different twist), but everyone who played it said it's much more like Super Mario Odyssey or Bowser's Fury in design (which is what I prefer, actually).

I also agree with the above post about how the open world looks great in some parts and bland in others. I hope the rest of the world (and the other worlds) are updated to look like that poppy field.

[ComeAsYouAre]

BOTW took those towers from Assassin's Creed in the first place lmao. Granted BOTW Towers act different but still 

[light-gaia]

2 hours ago, NoKaine said:

Frontiers is like Breath of the Wild because Breath of the Wild invented grass and towers (despite the fact that the tower does not serve the same purpose as the towers in Breath of the Wild at all) and open worlds and slow music.

It's exactly the same! lol

There are some things that do seem absolutely cribbed from Breath of the Wild like the "Kokos" or Sonic having amnesia (though needing to get your friends' memories back too is a different twist), but everyone who played it said it's much more like Super Mario Odyssey or Bowser's Fury in design (which is what I prefer, actually).

I also agree with the above post about how the open world looks great in some parts and bland in others. I hope the rest of the world (and the other worlds) are updated to look like that poppy field.

Breath of the Wild isn't as original as people claim it is. Almost all of its mechanics were implemented by other open world games before. Including the Koroks' quest. The hero of the story having amnesia isn't something Botw invented, either. (Actually, none of the Zelda stories are that original).

[Dummy Bear]

A little abstract architecture can go a long way. I feel like these are some of the best shots of the game and the added archituctre is a part of why.

The towers in the background of these shots really give it the "Sonic feel" IMO.

[NoKaine]

I do hope the part about the world literally opening and filling up does a lot to make the open world look more varied and cohesive. 

There's still that random loop that we found in exactly one screenshot so far. I wonder if that's something that only appears when you complete certain tasks.

[pppp]

5 hours ago, Pumkin_22 said:

Um, have you ever heard about how people said that it isn't really like Zelda??

Dude, the plot is literally Sonic wakes up in a green open area with ruins, enemies and puzzles, and hears Amy's voice telling him to go places to pierce together his memory.

Do you know what the BOTW plot is? Link wakes up in a green open area with ruins, enemies and puzzles, and hears Zelda's voice telling him to go places to pierce together his memory.

Both games also have soft more atmospheric music in contrast to their usual musical style.

I'm not saying Frontiers won't try to put its own spin on things, but it very obviously wears its inspiration on its sleeve.

[light-gaia]

15 minutes ago, pppp said:

Dude, the plot is literally Sonic wakes up in a green open area with ruins, enemies and puzzles, and hears Amy's voice telling him to go places to pierce together his memory.

Do you know what the BOTW plot is? Link wakes up in a green open area with ruins, enemies and puzzles, and hears Zelda's voice telling him to go places to pierce together his memory.

Both games also have soft more atmospheric music in contrast to their usual musical style.

I'm not saying Frontiers won't try to put its own spin on things, but it very obviously wears its inspiration on its sleeve.

Zelda isn't the only game that has puzzles. Yes, Frontiers is definitely inspired by Zelda. There's no denying. However, people who played the game said it's more similar to Mario Odyssey. What makes a lot of sense. Mario Odyssey worlds are like "open zones", but they are smaller because Mario cannot run as fast as Sonic.

Mario Odyssey's worlds compared to Sonic Frontiers' open zones are like comparing a Super Mario World level with a Sonic 3 level (in scope).

In Mario Odyssey, you also have to solve puzzles and platforming challenges in a sandbox to progress through the game and have access to other worlds.

[pppp]

19 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Zelda isn't the only game that has puzzles. Yes, Frontiers is definitely inspired by Zelda. There's no denying. However, people who played the game said it's more similar to Mario Odyssey. What makes a lot of sense. Mario Odyssey worlds are like "open zones", but they are smaller because Mario cannot run as fast as Sonic.

Mario Odyssey's worlds compared to Sonic Frontiers' open zones are like comparing a Super Mario World level with a Sonic 3 level (in scope).

In Mario Odyssey, you also have to solve puzzles and platforming challenges in a sandbox to progress through the game and have access to other worlds.

Yeah, that's my problem, taking things from Mario Odyssey is not ok with me either, since I want Adventure 1 gameplay.

Also you ignored my point of both games having the same premise.