Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[StaticMania]

That was pointless...

[Jango]

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

This is just speculation, but it's interesting speculation

Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Why isn't this in the game? I can't believe how overpriced this collection is to offer so little. I'll hold on and hope for a Sonic Origins Plus, if that ever happens, that hopefully will have at the very least some GG/MS games and playable Amy. You had a good thing going on SEGA. Why did you had to fuck it up? Guess I just answered my own question.

[DaBigJ]

I dunno why you're taking it as definitive cut content...it's just speculation?

[Milo]

 

It took up until the 11th hour (two months before release) for Sega to even readily admit (or more accurately, allow Stealth/HC and Taxman to announce) that S1/2/CD in Origins were based on the TaxStealth remasters to begin with, let alone that HC was hired specifically to remake 3&K on an updated Retro Engine. A part of that could also be just how straight-up terrible / non-existent the marketing for Sonic games has been. But for the longest time, it looked very plausible that Origins was a project that had no involvement from Taxman/Stealth, or the work they've previously done for Sega, whatsoever.

For comparison's sake, look at how Mania was unveiled at the 25th anniversary party; they were proud to headline Taxman, Stealth, and PadogaWest Games as the developers of the game. The difference couldn't be anymore stark.

Which is honestly something of a good summation of affairs. The way Mania was handled as a new MD Sonic project five years ago vs. the way Origins is being handled as a new MD Sonic project as of today. Feels like lightning in a bottle in retrospect.

 

[Cosmos Rogue]

Well lightning in a bottle is a fair way to describe the Genesis games the way the series has gone since. Maybe Origins being a mess after Mania was good is a fine way to celebrate Sonic's legacy after all.

[DaBigJ]

1 minute ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

Well lightning in a bottle is a fair way to describe the Genesis games the way the series has gone since. Maybe Origins being a mess after Mania was good is a fine way to celebrate Sonic's legacy after all.

Ow, this post hurts to read as someone who prefers Modern to Classic

[Cosmos Rogue]

1 minute ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Ow, this post hurts to read as someone who prefers Modern to Classic

It hurt to type.

[DaBigJ]

We're already getting mods that include things that should've been in the game at launch.

 

[Sean]

Well since i'm holding off playing S3K until Sega patches it (if they even do), I decided to mod the Origins replacement music into Sonic 3 AIR and hear it while playing since I haven't listened to them on their own before.

Icecap 1 and 2 are the only songs that don't sound utterly atrocious. I mean what the fuck happened here? Some parts even sound worse than Sonic 4's music. Don't even get me started on how much I despise that Super Sonic theme, it literally would have been better to just use the SK invincibility music. Shoutout to CNZ2 and LBZ2 which were wrangled beyond recognition, and how LBZ1 fucking loops incorrectly. Weirdly enough ICZ1 and 2 are the only songs that sound relatively close to the proto music, AND they also don't sound like they were recorded underwater. What the fuck is going on here

[Tornado]

6 hours ago, Milo said:

It took up until the 11th hour (two months before release) for Sega to even readily admit (or more accurately, allow Stealth/HC and Taxman to announce) that S1/2/CD in Origins were based on the TaxStealth remasters to begin with, let alone that HC was hired specifically to remake 3&K on an updated Retro Engine. A part of that could also be just how straight-up terrible / non-existent the marketing for Sonic games has been. But for the longest time, it looked very plausible that Origins was a project that had no involvement from Taxman/Stealth, or the work they've previously done for Sega, whatsoever.

For comparison's sake, look at how Mania was unveiled at the 25th anniversary party; they were proud to headline Taxman, Stealth, and PadogaWest Games as the developers of the game. The difference couldn't be anymore stark.

Which is honestly something of a good summation of affairs. The way Mania was handled as a new MD Sonic project five years ago vs. the way Origins is being handled as a new MD Sonic project as of today. Feels like lightning in a bottle in retrospect.

I mean Mania was a game with a long gestation period,too. It's pretty possible that Origins was a game that was thrown together at the last minute when Sega realized that Frontiers wasn't going to be ready anywhere near the anniversary. 

 

 

 

It would certainly explain the horrendous showing that the game had when it was announced, consisting of a bunch of footage of the mobile ports and then fucking Sonic 3 running in an emulator (that they had to come out and clarify weeks later that that's not how Sonic 3 would be), if they just hadn't done anything to develop it yet. It would also explain why they barely did anything to market it until a few months ago, if they still had little that was presentable. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I still think this collection is overpriced, for a digital release even, 40 is too much, Mania was a long new game and even the physical release was 30. 

But does it offer nothing new? No way, it's still a lot more than other collections and even past Sonic ones. It might be my favorite Sonic collection for what it offers, I'm really liking the package so far, Mission Mode, animated cutscenes, anniversary and story mode, playable Tails and Knuckles, drop dash which gives this new spin on classics, Mirror and Boss Rush, of course... the map islands and the museum. It's well packaged and I really don't get why SEGA doesn't give a shit about Origins, they barely acknowledged it, this is why I'm skeptical of patches for now.

The stuff I dislike... the music replacements, lack of playable Amy and Metal Sonic, but if I want to be honest I'm still more pissed about the scrapped Metal Sonic content for Colors Ultimate, which planned more races, playable Metal and leaderboards. You would say it is not that hard to add a new playable character...

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, Red Hot Jack said:

I still think this collection is overpriced, for a digital release even, 40 is too much, Mania was a long new game and even the physical release was 30. 

Origins has its problems and they run deep, because SEGA continues to treat Sonic like nothing more than a cash cow. But, in theory, £35 for the definitive collection of the Classic Sonic games is certainly not overpriced. I don't care how many times these game been made available in other forms. If SEGA actually gave a damn about quality and gave its developers the time and money see the project through to end instead of half-arsing it, Origins would be worth every penny. £35 for for games, remastered with new features, fully animated story sequences, mission mode and a few other bells and whistles is not overpriced.

[Flame Lance]

So I started playing the Steam version of game for the first time today and I blasted through both Sonic 1 and Sonic CD in the story mode. It was a lot of fun hitting those games up again as it's been quite a while since I've played any classic Sonic games. IDGAF what anyone says, CD is pure perfection and I savor every second of it.  Looking forward to Sonic 2 and 3K on my next session. I have yet to bless my ears with the new music lol.

Only real complaint is the game just doesn't look as good as I guess I was maybe expecting? I'm not sure why it's so blurry looking. I feel like I've played better looking versions of the game elsewhere but I don't remember what. I suppose I'll need to dip into some Origins mods. Also, I don't know if the drop dash is a bit wonky or if I just plain suck but I can rarely ever get it to work. 

Oh and maybe some day we will live to see a Sonic compilation that includes Chaotix. I'll keep dreaming in the meantime. 

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

18 hours ago, Roareye Black said:

Lord knows myself and Dread haven't spoken really for a solid decade, but I am going to defend him somewhat on this point - as someone who grew up with the man.

He knows the Classics, he owned them multiple times over and knows levels like the back of his hands. The dude used to collate and sell the cheat codes at school break times when he was 7 for crying loud Believe me when I say, he knows these games.

I think his review isn't exactly cronyism, which seems to be your inference (the "relationship with Sega"). He definitely HAS a relationship with Sega, but he was trained in journalism at degree level. He's also not a journalist any longer.

However Dread has always been caught heavily in the new Sonic game hype train. It's not new for him to see Sonic titles in a more positive light because he loves them. It may be called a review, but it's more an opinion piece - he's not paid for TSS and the site isn't geared to be a hardcore journalism site, it's a fansite.

You can hear a similar reaction in season 1 of The Sonic Hour, an episode called The Sonic Heroes Hour. Dread (and Ben, in his only year on the show) are both praising Sonic Heroes, which at the time is on preview only. Before it released. I call it as I see it (admittedly a little harsh in hindsight) by mentioning the sloppy graphics, awkward looking gameplay etc. Dread and Ben don't want to hear anything negative, so essentially call me a fool. While I got it right historically, that's not my point. You can hear in how Dread is gleefully discussing Sonic Heroes that he at least WANTS it to be exceptional.

TL;DR - I don't believe Dread is attempting to mislead anyone, and I can guarantee he knows these games. I just think he's like a kid at Christmas at having more of the franchise he loves.

By the way, I wasn't questioning if he has really played the classics a lot, I know that he does. I've been in SSMB for way over a decade (just my activity here is more of a lurker now) so when I saw this site back in the day, it was more than obvious he played the classics a lot. That's why I was a bit shocked he gave it a 5/5 rating.

And yeah I guess you can get caught up. I would have done the same with the Sonic Adventure remaster or give a very high rating to Unleashed PS3/360.

I know that feeling with the kid at Christmas thing, recently with Forces - the only difference is that after playing it, I ended up disappointed and ranted.

Oh I remember The Sonic Hour! I hope he didn't do this for most Sonic games though...did he do this for Forces as well?! *checks* Ah ok. He called it mediocre.  

[NoKaine]

13 hours ago, Milo said:

It took up until the 11th hour (two months before release) for Sega to even readily admit (or more accurately, allow Stealth/HC and Taxman to announce) that S1/2/CD in Origins were based on the TaxStealth remasters to begin with

I'm pretty sure that was literally the first thing they announced, that it's the iOS / Steam remasters. They also said that Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be widescreen but didn't definitively say that it was a Retro Engine port.

It's likely they didn't actually get Headcannon on board until much later, which is why they didn't say anything. I agree with Tornado that Origins was likely only commissioned because of Frontiers' delay.

[pppp]

OK So I'm up to S3K now, can anyone explain to me how the bug that makes you lose your progress/emeralds work exactly?

[DaN]

I bought the game but I’m not entirely satisfied with what they did.

 

This Collection needed a completely different approach that very few people talked about. An HD rework of the textures like Street Fighter HD remastered. Same animation but new drawings. This way they could have sold it at full price without a doubt (with the ability to play the vanilla version and the anniversary one too).

since there’s no HD I would have expected at the very least stuff like:

- Every character on every game

- The ability to select the different kind of models for Sonic and Tails

- Knuckles Chaotix as a bonus game

- Mighty, Ray, Amy, Metal Sonic and the Chaotix (properly reworked) Playable

- Graphic Filters like Mania

 

Seriously, with the second movie beeing this successful, I expected a lot more than this.

[DaBigJ]

I'm sorry, but that fourth expectation is nothing more than a pipe dream. They were never going to add extra playable charactera to the game, and to expect that many is like expecting Mcdonalds to be healthy.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

58 minutes ago, DaN said:

I bought the game but I’m not entirely satisfied with what they did.

This Collection needed a completely different approach that very few people talked about. An HD rework of the textures like Street Fighter HD remastered. Same animation but new drawings. This way they could have sold it at full price without a doubt (with the ability to play the vanilla version and the anniversary one too).

since there’s no HD I would have expected at the very least stuff like:

- Every character on every game

- The ability to select the different kind of models for Sonic and Tails

- Knuckles Chaotix as a bonus game

- Mighty, Ray, Amy, Metal Sonic and the Chaotix (properly reworked) Playable

- Graphic Filters like Mania

Seriously, with the second movie beeing this successful, I expected a lot more than this.

Also as pointed out, the vanilla/classic versions aren't really vanilla versions. 

They are anniversary versions, just cropped to 4:3 and swapped the coins system with the lives.

[DaBigJ]

We're getting closer to getting a mod loader for Origins! Also, some footage of a testing stage!

[Milo]

3 hours ago, NoKaine said:

I'm pretty sure that was literally the first thing they announced, that it's the iOS / Steam remasters. They also said that Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be widescreen but didn't definitively say that it was a Retro Engine port.

Sega did say all of the MD/MCD games would be remastered and they did have footage of 1/2/CD in widescreen (unarguably the TaxStealth versions of course) in the Sonic Central stream announcement. But when all parties remained quiet about whether Taxman and Headcannon were involved with Origins, it threw some doubt in the air if they were going to be using the TaxStealth versions at all.

It's worth noting that the Switch at the time had recently gotten the Sega AGES releases of Sonic 1 and 2 handled by M2 (which come with their own enhancements separate from the TaxStealth versions), so Sega looking beyond the TaxStealth remasters for Origins wasn't out of the realm of possibility.

[Razule]

There's no level select in story mode and any other save files delete the previous one. Playing the game the normal way shows the same cutscenes. Why would anyone play through that mode..? I wish I'd known that before I finished Sonic 1.

I feel like there's so many QoL improvements that could have been made that are just.. not there. 

[Sean]

4 hours ago, Razule said:

There's no level select in story mode and any other save files delete the previous one. Playing the game the normal way shows the same cutscenes. Why would anyone play through that mode..? I wish I'd known that before I finished Sonic 1.

I feel like there's so many QoL improvements that could have been made that are just.. not there. 

They actually stripped these features from the mobile ports. Sonic 1 and 2 both had Sonic 3-style data select where you can choose any zone from a completed save file and even finish collecting the chaos emeralds that way. Also, Sonic 1 allowed you to play with Sonic+Tails in a new save file, rather than lock it behind the hidden level select menu. So that's fucking right folks, the mobile versions are in fact better than the versions we got in Origins. It should have been the other fucking way around, just try to process that for a good minute.

Deadass just stick with the decompilations. Even if you don't mod them at all whatsoever, they're still better than what Sega gave us.

[Blue Blood]

24 minutes ago, Sean said:

They actually stripped these features from the mobile ports. Sonic 1 and 2 both had Sonic 3-style data select where you can choose any zone from a completed save file and even finish collecting the chaos emeralds that way. Also, Sonic 1 allowed you to play with Sonic+Tails in a new save file, rather than lock it behind the hidden level select menu. So that's fucking right folks, the mobile versions are in fact better than the versions we got in Origins. It should have been the other fucking way around, just try to process that for a good minute.

Deadass just stick with the decompilations. Even if you don't mod them at all whatsoever, they're still better than what Sega gave us.

I think that SEGA didn't even realise what features they were removing as they cut and mangled these games into their shitty Origins shell. For example, S1 and S2 mobile actually gave you the file select and character select menu before you started the games. You could have multiple save files for different characters and playthroughs. And it also meant that the games themselves had one clean visual and UI style. But Origins instead just lumps in that nasty pop-up style menu on the title screens. 

Origins is the best official way to play all of these games now. It's nice that they're all accessible to general audiences. It's just shameful that SEGA couldn't resist the urge to actively prevent this from being the definitive collection. It's a mixture of utter ineptitude and lack of caring. 

 

[Sean]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Origins is the best official way to play all of these games now.

This is literally only because Sega mucked up the mobile versions with the Sega Forever branding. The mobile versions pre-Forever were the best way to play these games officially.