Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[VO.SUPER]

7 minutes ago, Sean said:

This is literally only because Sega mucked up the mobile versions with the Sega Forever branding. The mobile versions pre-Forever were the best way to play these games officially.

The lack of proper control options along with their limited form factor made them not as accessible on a casual level sadly. So on some levels I'd still say this is the best official way. 

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be fixed mechanically. The way they are is unacceptable for us who have been in this series for so long. 

[Blue Blood]

6 minutes ago, Sean said:

This is literally only because Sega mucked up the mobile versions with the Sega Forever branding. The mobile versions pre-Forever were the best way to play these games officially.

Other than the fact that they are on mobile exclusively, which is big problem in itself. But yeah, SEGA fucked up a good thing there too. 

Can we talk about the Origins menus for a second? They're crap. The whole idea of seeing the islands from the games sounded like so much fun, but they do absolutely nothing with them.  You just see oversized, recycled Generations models looping animations on them. "Island Tour", which is paid DLC, gives you the ability to zoom in the camera on the blurry textures and pan the camera from side to side a bit. You can't even rotate your view. And because literally all of the characters that appear are recycled models from Generations and Lost World, that means that Knuckles and Amy are MIA. It's so half arsed and I hate it so much. 

[Sean]

The mobile versions do have TV and controller support though so if you had the means then you could definitely play them like a regular Sonic game and not have to use the touch screen. The only downside I'd say is that Sonic 2 lacks 2P couch mode. Otherwise I still consider what I say to be true.

[VO.SUPER]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

Other than the fact that they are on mobile exclusively, which is big problem in itself. But yeah, SEGA fucked up a good thing there too. 

Can we talk about the Origins menus for a second? They're crap. The whole idea of seeing the islands from the games sounded like so much fun, but they do absolutely nothing with them.  You just see oversized, recycled Generations models looping animations on them. "Island Tour", which is paid DLC, gives you the ability to zoom in the camera on the blurry textures and pan the camera from side to side a bit. You can't even rotate your view. And because literally all of the characters that appear are recycled models from Generations and Lost World, that means that Knuckles and Amy are MIA. It's so half arsed and I hate it so much. 

You know what would've been fun? If pressing different buttons made special animations play or just cute sound effects. Just some level of interactivity with the menus to make the whole island idea really worth it. 

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, Sean said:

The mobile versions do have TV and controller support though so if you had the means then you could definitely play them like a regular Sonic game and not have to use the touch screen. The only downside I'd say is that Sonic 2 lacks 2P couch mode. Otherwise I still consider what I say to be true.

The mobile versions are also available on platforms like Fire TV. It's kind of dodging the point a bit. Convenience via platform of choice is a pretty big deal. 

[Sean]

I wouldn't care if they were on the Ouya or the freaking Atari 5200. If they're the best versions then they're the best versions, accessibility or platform choice be damned. Saying that things like accessibility or platform choice prevent them from being the best are dodging the point, not what I'm saying.

[VO.SUPER]

That feels very gatekeepy. I understand we have our own priorities, but still there are more than just us hardcore when it comes to who can play. 

Edit: Ok. Me saying this isn't staying on topic. The product is subpar for what it is, and that is unacceptable especially when SEGA is asking $40 and trying to treat this like a big celebration of Classic Sonic. 

It's good it is good as it is, and it is easy for say, young kids to jump into this and love Sonic, but it should be better as a whole. 

[Sean]

In what way is that even remotely gatekeepy? A version being the most accessible and being the best don't always correlate to each other. You really gonna recommend someone play Sonic Colors HD or Chrono Cross HD just because they're the ones on modern platforms, despite them being buggy piles of garbage? I'm not giving Sega any wiggle room here, they need to fix Origins up before they become the best versions for fans to play and I do not under any circumstances "gotta hand it to them"

[Blue Blood]

9 minutes ago, Sean said:

I wouldn't care if they were on the Ouya or the freaking Atari 5200. If they're the best versions then they're the best versions, accessibility or platform choice be damned. Saying that things like accessibility or platform choice prevent them from being the best are dodging the point, not what I'm saying.

I literally did not say that.

The mobile versions of 1, 2 and CD are the best official versions regardless of platform. The decomos and S3AIR are even better still. But the differences between those versions and Origins aren't so significant that Origins isn't without its merits for being accessible and convenient. 

8 minutes ago, Sean said:

In what way is that even remotely gatekeepy? A version being the most accessible and being the best don't always correlate to each other. You really gonna recommend someone play Sonic Colors HD or Chrono Cross HD just because they're the ones on modern platforms despite them being buggy piles of garbage? I'm not giving Sega any wiggle room here, they need to fix Origins up and I do not under any circumstances "gotta hand it to them"

Can't speak for Chrono Cross because I've never played it. But regarding Colours? Yeah, I'd still recommend Ultimate. If someone can't/doesn't want to emulate the Wii version and doesn't want to set up or buy the system to play one single game, I'd recommend Colours Ultimate. It's inferior to the original, but it's still the same game at the end of the day. Most of the differences are going to be totally negligible to a lot of the audience, and those that are more significant still aren't going to deal breakers.

The same is true for Origins and the other official and unofficial versions of the games it offers. Origins isn't a bad way to play the games. It's just not the absolute best.

This isn't about giving SEGA any wiggle room or hand-waving their crap because it's official. They don't get the benefit of excuses. Origins is just another example of SEGA's unadulterated arrogance, penny pinching and laziness tarnishing something that should have been an easy slam dunk. Their hubris is almost nauseating, because they always have and will continue to get away with it. The point is just that Origins is still going to be more than "good enough" for most people. And SEGA know that. 

[Sean]

19 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Can't speak for Chrono Cross because I've never played it. But regarding Colours? Yeah, I'd still recommend Ultimate. If someone can't/doesn't want to emulate the Wii version and doesn't want to set up or buy the system to play one single game, I'd recommend Colours Ultimate. It's inferior to the original, but it's still the same game at the end of the day. Most of the differences are going to be totally negligible to a lot of the audience, and those that are more significant still aren't going to deal breakers.

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't recommend a bad version of a game just because it's the most accessible. Colors Ultimate is still not worth buying whether you're a returning fan or someone who wants to play it for the first time. I genuinely do not care about "most people" since I'm not going to be conversing with "most people" in the first place. I'm posting on an internet forum, not doing a TED Talk here.

Likewise I don't recommend Origins either. To anyone. It's not worth it. Everyone is perfectly free to ignore what I think, but I'm still not going to recommend it.

[Blue Blood]

25 minutes ago, Sean said:

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't recommend a bad version of a game just because it's the most accessible. Colors Ultimate is still not worth buying whether you're a returning fan or someone who wants to play it for the first time. I genuinely do not care about "most people" since I'm not going to be conversing with "most people" in the first place. I'm posting on an internet forum, not doing a TED Talk here.

Likewise I don't recommend Origins either. To anyone. It's not worth it.

Colours Ultimate isn't a "bad version" though. It's still Colours and it's largely the exact same thing. Ultimate has a higher framerate and/or better resolution depending on platform and its got different lighting. Ultimate also has bonus additional features. There are a few bugs that weren't present in the original either. It might be what I'd call a sloppy port, but the actual game on offer is basically the exact same thing. And again that's exactly what's going on with Origins. 

"Not the best" isn't the same thing as "bad". Sounds to me like you're so caught up in some of the finer details and have such high standards set by other versions that you're missing the point. And I'm not saying that your standards are unreasonably high here either. They're not. Expecting SEGA to neatly compile a collection of existing remasters without them taking a dump all over them is a rock bottom standard. Lol 

A game can be disappointing and messy whilst still being more than serviceable. Origins is disappointing and messy, but it does the job. 

[Conando]

3 hours ago, Sean said:

This is literally only because Sega mucked up the mobile versions with the Sega Forever branding. The mobile versions pre-Forever were the best way to play these games officially.

Well, as long as you ran them through BlueStacks. Unless controller support was added later?

[GeAr-DX]

5 hours ago, Sean said:

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't recommend a bad version of a game just because it's the most accessible. Colors Ultimate is still not worth buying whether you're a returning fan or someone who wants to play it for the first time. I genuinely do not care about "most people" since I'm not going to be conversing with "most people" in the first place. I'm posting on an internet forum, not doing a TED Talk here.

Likewise I don't recommend Origins either. To anyone. It's not worth it. Everyone is perfectly free to ignore what I think, but I'm still not going to recommend it.

I always recommend the original one first, I guess that this is a good way to start anything.

[Iko]

I'm liking Sonic Origins so far. I completed all the ranked challenges for Sonic 1 (all with Rank S) and I'm currently at Lava Reef in the story mode, all emeralds and time stones got in every game (almost got all the Super Emeralds in Mushroom Hill if not that I accidentally teleported myself out of the emerald shrine and lost one without even starting the special stage, didn't even know it was possible).

Playing all the games connected together with cutscenes does really improve the experience for me... it does feel like a single consistent adventure rather than separated games, and the fact that they are still splitted in chapters (each game has its own start and end, set of emeralds, etc.) is also nice for the pacing of the game. The presentation of the package is very good, and despite all the problems, I still think that it's a good collection.

I know that it's ported from the mobile version, but compared to the genesis original, the special stages of Sonic 2 now are much more playable, the originals were just bad (they still require some memorization in the later stages, but at least now it's acceptable, you can see the stuff coming most of the times).

Though, there are some things that I don't like... such as, why didn't they fix the Barrel of Doom? The DS version at least had an hint in the lower screen telling you how to move it, here it's just like in the original game, it locks you in the room without any clue of how to get out. I know, there's Internet now, but it's still conceptually wrong (and I doubt that this was one of the "major modifications" made by Sega). Also, Metropolis, and other stuff. I think that the level design became even worse than in the original games: it seems like a lot of stuff that in the original games would just damage you, now can one shot crush you even in super or hyper form... the Carnival Night miniboss (which is also broken due to the 16:9 room), the egg golem thing in Sandopolis, many surprise spike traps, some even placed near checkpoints like the one at Angel Island (it killed me right after getting the checkpoint). And Sonic 2's Death Egg still has no rings.

I don't like the idea of canonically having Hidden Palace in Sonic 2. It's clearly a scrapped zone that was completely redesigned from scratch and implemented in Sonic 3. Having it in Sonic 2 (Westside Island) makes no sense, because it's supposed to be on Angel Island.

And finally, I have an hot take: while I don't really like Ice Cap and Launch Base's replacement music (but in the case of Launch Base I also didn't like the original so I lost nothing), I'm starting to like the Carnival Night songs... they are weird but I think they fit the setting a lot, probably even more than the originals. I'm also getting used to S3's Super Sonic's theme.

The cutscenes are great and I really like how they look like a mix of occidental cartoon and anime styles put together, just like Sonic has been since the beginning.

So, overall, I think that despite all the flaws and problems, this is still the closest we have to a definitive version of playing the classic games. It's not perfect, there's a lot that can be done, but so far that's it.

Another hot take, I prefer this collection over Mania. Mania has a bunch of new stages, but for the revisited ones, I like the level design of the original games more, and most of the gimmicks that are in Mania are taken from existing classic games anyway, so by playing the originals you also experience most of the content of Mania.

I didn't play all of it yet but I would still give Origins an 8/10, especially thanks to all the QoL changes which made the most frustrating parts of the classics, much less frustrating (restarting the special stages feels so good).

[Indigo Rush]

Completed story mode, S Ranked all the missions and unlocked all the Museum Content. We can wax on about how the changes made make the Origins versions of these games less definitive if y'all like, but I had a good time... though the later missions were BS. Haven't encountered the game breaking glitches yet, thankfully. I appreciate the additions made to S3&K and it's awkward execution aside, I can't imagine playing S1,2&CD without the drop-dash ever again. 

Working my way through the Mirror Modes and I'm astounded at how such a simple implementation hasn't been done to this scale before. I said it when playing the Genesis Classics collection and I'll say it again: these games can only benefit from stuff like mirror modes. It's such an easy way to extend gameplay time and it really challenges and engaged me as someone whose played these same games for decades. Short of something like a DA Garden or Encore Mode remix mode, I feel like Origins has most of the features needed to make me consider it my personal definitive compilation pack. 

I do hope they'll let Headcannon go back and clean things up, though. Glitches to the caliber I've seen floating around aren't acceptable for remastered versions of games this old, and while this is less likely, I would appreciate if someone at SEGA hired someone who knows how to program around a Genesis sound chip and actually make these replacement tracks for Sonic 3 sound better. 

[Jango]

16 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

The whole idea of seeing the islands from the games sounded like so much fun, but they do absolutely nothing with them.  You just see oversized, recycled Generations models looping animations on them. "Island Tour", which is paid DLC, gives you the ability to zoom in the camera on the blurry textures and pan the camera from side to side a bit. You can't even rotate your view. And because literally all of the characters that appear are recycled models from Generations and Lost World, that means that Knuckles and Amy are MIA. It's so half arsed and I hate it so much. 

I was wondering how this "amazing feature that couldn't possibly be in the regular edition of the game" looked like since it came out. So it's crap? Boy, I am not surprised... I'll hold on untill this is at a reasonable price tag, especially here in LATAM where SEGA for some unholy reason decided to sell this at the price of a AAA game. 

Someone tell me when/if this collection ever gets fixed, because I guess Sonic 3 A.I.R and playing the mobile ports through Apple TV still my go-to options. SEGA does indeed have a sexual finger.

[Gotta Go Rational]

Haven't given Origins a go yet, but having made a tertiary glance at some footage online, it seems that (aside from the unlockable tracks) there is no music playing when in the museum ? Pretty disappointing if that's the case,  the museum themes for the likes of Mega Collection/Gems Collection were pretty memorable, was hoping this game would follow suit.

[KHCast]

16 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Colours Ultimate isn't a "bad version" though. It's still Colours and it's largely the exact same thing. Ultimate has a higher framerate and/or better resolution depending on platform and its got different lighting. Ultimate also has bonus additional features. There are a few bugs that weren't present in the original either. It might be what I'd call a sloppy port, but the actual game on offer is basically the exact same thing. And again that's exactly what's going on with Origins. 

"Not the best" isn't the same thing as "bad". Sounds to me like you're so caught up in some of the finer details and have such high standards set by other versions that you're missing the point. And I'm not saying that your standards are unreasonably high here either. They're not. Expecting SEGA to neatly compile a collection of existing remasters without them taking a dump all over them is a rock bottom standard. Lol 

A game can be disappointing and messy whilst still being more than serviceable. Origins is disappointing and messy, but it does the job. 

So theoretically, if we applied this somewhere else, Konami’s notorious Silent Hill HD collection, was still the “definitive” was to play those games, since they were the most accessible ones? Is that the argument being made here for Origins? 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

41 minutes ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

Haven't given Origins a go yet, but having made a tertiary glance at some footage online, it seems that (aside from the unlockable tracks) there is no music playing when in the museum ? Pretty disappointing if that's the case,  the museum themes for the likes of Mega Collection/Gems Collection were pretty memorable, was hoping this game would follow suit.

No, there is music playing when inside of the Museum. Furthermore, you can use both the unlockable tracks to create a custom playlist of music that plays when you’re in the museum.

[Gotta Go Rational]

Great, thanks! The footage I saw on youtube had no music playing when scrolling through the character/box art sections, and I couldn't find any "Sonic Origins museum theme" uploads in the way you can find the museum theme for Mega/Gems collection, hence my doubt.

[DaBigJ]

Gee, I wonder if extra development time being actually allowed by SEGA would've allowed this to be implemented?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

So theoretically, if we applied this somewhere else, Konami’s notorious Silent Hill HD collection, was still the “definitive” was to play those games, since they were the most accessible ones? Is that the argument being made here for Origins? 

No, not really, given how for starters, Origins isn't ludicrously broken like the Silent Hill HD collection.

And also, given the fact that the Silent Hill HD collection doesn't provide beneficial QoL updates, unlike Origins as well.

[LegoFedora]

32 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Gee, I wonder if extra development time being actually allowed by SEGA would've allowed this to be implemented?

Please for the love of mobius bring in headcannon (or at this point, any other studio) to clean this game up and add tiny stuff like these. Having more than just the character sprites being changed depending on the era is such a cool idea. Also since you don't mind using previous collections music (Jam), why not have the mega collection extras music play during the museum by default unless you choose a different song?

Still upset that we were THIS close to finally being able to get rid of the imo ugly Sonic 3 sprites. So close yet so far.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

For all the talk of bringing in Headcannon to fix thing, I do feel it necessary to point out that it seems like Sonic Team could've also gotten this done proper if SEGA hadn't slammed into the crunch speed lane.

[DaBigJ]

The peelout code is in Sonic 3 as well

Honestly, I wish SEGA just pushed back Origins a few months just so we could've gotten these features that were pretty clearly planned. They could probably be re-added in via updates...but that's not likely at all.