The Pokémanz Thread

[Kuzu]

Which reminds me though:

That wasn't cool, bro. xD

Still loved battling you though. I'm up for another whenever you feel like battling.

[Mega]

You could try grinding in Mt. Silver? Provided you're far enough, anyway.

[Tori Himemiya]

Take your Pokegear, go to the entrance to Ice Path. There's a bird trainer there who has 3 Pidgeottos or something. Find out the time when he will rematch you, grind yourself silly.

I actually fought that trainer the other day and he has 2 Pidgeots and a Noctowl. I managed to beat both pidgeots (one was lv.56 btw) with my dying Starly since they wasted a turn on tailwind and agility. So finally I have my Brave Bird Murkrow now and I must say I'm quite proud of it. I've been trying to Ev train it for a while and its turning out good.

And I didn't know you can re-challenge gym leaders on the same day. I'm going to have to try that out sometime.

[Detective Shadzter]

Just spotted the cover art for the UK Pokemon: Zoroark Master of Illusions DVD at Play.com and noticed it comes with a bonus Celebi trading card.

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/18970363/Pokemon-Zoroark-Master-Of-Illusions/Product.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=pokemon+zoroark&urlrefer=search

DVD's down for an April 25th release date. Cheapest price online appears to be £8.49 at the above Play.com link and Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pokemon-Zoroark-Master-Illusions-DVD/dp/B004QM8JQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1301706938&sr=8-1

EDIT:

Found a cheaper price. £7.99 at Sainsbury's Entertainment.

http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/en/Films-TV/DVD/Universal-Pictures-UK/Pokemon-Zoroark-Master-Of-Illusions/product.html?product=E10903521

[Sean]

I lied! Yesterday I EV-trained a Porygon-Z, just for the hell of it. I guess I can't pull myself away from the masochism of EV-training after all. Got a Timid nature one so it could get a boost in Speed - although the one I ended up with has piss-poor IVs. But it has good IVs in everything else and I didn't feel like egg-spamming for even longer, so what can you do. Its permanent stats range at 140 at level 50, so it's still fast enough to take on anything in the Battle Frontier, which is good enough for me.

Also, it seems like I'm only twelve Pokémon away from completing my overall Gen4 Pokédex (328 in Platinum, 376 in SoulSilver). The ones I'm missing (including their respective evolutions) are Squirtle, Torchic, Sableye, Latias, Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Glameow. Groovy.

[Kuzu]

I lied! Yesterday I EV-trained a Porygon-Z, just for the hell of it. I guess I can't pull myself away from the masochism of EV-training after all. Got a Timid nature one so it could get a boost in Speed - although the one I ended up with has piss-poor IVs. But it has good IVs in everything else and I didn't feel like egg-spamming for even longer, so what can you do. Its permanent stats range at 140 at level 50, so it's still fast enough to take on anything in the Battle Frontier, which is good enough for me.

Also, it seems like I'm only twelve Pokémon away from completing my overall Gen4 Pokédex (328 in Platinum, 376 in SoulSilver). The ones I'm missing (including their respective evolutions) are Squirtle, Torchic, Sableye, Latias, Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Glameow. Groovy.

Porygon2 makes Porygon-Z irrelevant.

[Sean]

Other than better defenses, I have no idea what you are referring to.

[Kuzu]

Other than better defenses, I have no idea what you are referring to.

That's exactly what I'm referring to, with Eviolite, Porygon2 becomes a wall that can take pretty much anything. And it has decent Sp. A.

[Sean]

I think its godly Special Attack and Adaptability more than make up for it, so it's a worthwhile trade-off if you're looking to kill a lot of Pokémon right away.

Also I think Porygon-Z looks way cooler.

[ovarloard]

You can't call one thing irrelevant if it's for a completely different purpose. It's like calling the iPhone irrelevant because the iPad exists now.

Sure, Pory2 may have higher competitive usage than Z, but again, it's up to style of play and how it fits on a team.

[Kuzu]

I think its godly Special Attack and Adaptability more than make up for it, so it's a worthwhile trade-off if you're looking to kill a lot of Pokémon right away.

Also I think Porygon-Z looks way cooler.

Yeah, but priority is a bitch sometimes, I guess Porygon-Z is just better for a Sp. sweeping team.

Considering its Porygon2 on crack, that makes sense.

[Sean]

Keep in mind that I'm not training these Pokémon for competitive battling (and this isn't the thread for that, anyway). Whenever I choose to use a certain Pokémon I just pick whichever one I like aesthetically and try to work around its strengths and limitations.

I may be training my Pokémon more seriously by paying more attention to natures and stats, but in the end I'm still going with my favorites, which is one part of playing Pokémon I can't abandon.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Hang on Sean:

(and this isn't the thread for that, anyway)

Which thread is, then? :/

(And for the record: Porygon2 and Porygon-Z have totally different stat distributions and so perform different roles. Comparing apples and oranges is bad.)

[Blue Blood]

I honestly thought this was the thread for that, rather than filling up the B/W topic with it all.

[Sean]

I was thinking we had a separate topic for it. If not, then forget what I said.

[Kuzu]

I was thinking we had a separate topic for it. If not, then forget what I said.

[Sean]

Just disregard what I said and use this topic. It was a mix-up on my part; I mistook the pinned topic as one that covered competitive battling, so I never paid attention to it before.

[Serperior]

I was thinking we had a separate topic for it. If not, then forget what I said.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Serperior

[LATER BUDDY]

I was talking to Sean earlier today about EV training a Porygon-Z as well. However, I was thinking about maxing out the Special Attack/Speed stats while in the Porygon2 mode, so it'd get as much defense as possible, and then evolving it once it gets to 100. He said it was up to me, but something about it seems like it's a bad idea or something. I'm not really into the competitive battling scene, I just want a favored team at their peak for battling 8D.

That said, if anyone wanted to take a stab at these, could some of you guys maybe fill me in on some good decisions for my planned team? I know some basic things, so I'll jot those down, but I have no idea what I want for moves and such:

*Porygon-Z

-Modest, or neutral if I get fed up with egg hatching

-that first paragraph description up thar.

-Only have Tri-Attack planned for a move so far.

-No idea what item to have it hold

*Zoroark

-No idea for nature, so neutral for now

-EV the Special Attack...and I don't know what for the second

-Not positive on moveset yet

-Blackglasses? Other than that, I don't know for an item, XD.

*Lucario

-No idea for nature, so neutral for now

-EVing kinda depends on the nature I choose

-Had some eggmoves in mind, like Blaze Kick, but aside from that I have nothing

-No idea what item to have it hold

*Metagross

-Can't decide if I want him a physical or special attacker, so the nature depends there. Maybe a bit of both?

-EV training depends on attacker type

-No idea on moveset

-Nor item lawl

*Arcanine

-I'd say a nature that benefits attack, but the movepool for STAB moves for him aren't the greatest in that department, =(.

-EV just speed so far probably, I don't know about the other.

-No idea for moveset

-Probably some fire increasing item like Charcoal or something

*Marowak

-Adamant nature

-EV Attack and Speed

-Just Earthquake so far for moves

-Thick Club for sure

After typing that, I really realized I'm lost on most of this, XD. I know I'd probably get my ass destroyed if anyone I battled set anything up to take out sweepers, but whatever, I just liking using my favorites, XD. But yeah, any help would be awesome 8D.

-Blur

[Sean]

I was talking to Sean earlier today about EV training a Porygon-Z as well. However, I was thinking about maxing out the Special Attack/Speed stats while in the Porygon2 mode, so it'd get as much defense as possible, and then evolving it once it gets to 100. He said it was up to me, but something about it seems like it's a bad idea or something. I'm not really into the competitive battling scene, I just want a favored team at their peak for battling 8D.

Evolving a Pokémon at a certain level doesn't affect its final permanent stats, so there's no real reason to wait until level 100 to evolve it. Unless of course you want it to have good defense while you're training, but at that point I'd say to evolve it around level 50.

*Lucario

-No idea for nature, so neutral for now

-EVing kinda depends on the nature I choose

-Had some eggmoves in mind, like Blaze Kick, but aside from that I have nothing

-No idea what item to have it hold

Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere are both great. I also like the move Psychic since it combats other Fighting types as well. As far as physical moves go, ExtremeSpeed and Brick Break both look pretty good to me, and do try to get Blaze Kick if you feel like it.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Pokémon stats can go down when they evolve if the base stats of the evolved form are lower than the previous form. In Porygon-Z's case, it loses a LOT of defense when it evolves no matter what you do.

In other words, you don't know how the stat system works properly, Wolfy. I explained it properly earlier in this thread.

EDIT: To summarise: the level you evolve the Pokémon has no effect on its final stats. When you evolve a Pokémon it literally changes from one species to another and picks up a new set of core base stats that have nothing to with the previous Pokémon at all. IIRC P-Z drops from 80 Base Def to 50 Base Def, so it will always lose the equivalent points in Def no matter whether you evolve it at Lv1 or 100.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Velotix Lexovetikan

[LATER BUDDY]

Pokémon stats can go down when they evolve if the base stats of the evolved form are lower than the previous form. In Porygon-Z's case, it loses a LOT of defense when it evolves no matter what you do.

In other words, you don't know how the stat system works properly, Wolfy. I explained it properly earlier in this thread.

EDIT: To summarise: the level you evolve the Pokémon has no effect on its final stats. When you evolve a Pokémon it literally changes from one species to another and picks up a new set of core base stats that have nothing to with the previous Pokémon at all. IIRC P-Z drops from 80 Base Def to 50 Base Def, so it will always lose the equivalent points in Def no matter whether you evolve it at Lv1 or 100.

I guess I just haven't been looking when things evolve. I've always assumed that the evolution just stacked on whatever you previously had worked on on a previous evolution. Thanks for clearing it up though, I haven't really looked much into this topic *obviously*.

So yeah, might as well just fully evolve it as soon as I get it then, since I don't really care about Sharpen, Defense Curl, or Recycle.

By the way, can Ditto pass on his nature with the Everstone thing? If so I might just go catch a bunch of different Ditto, lawl.

-Blur

[Kuzu]

I guess I just haven't been looking when things evolve. I've always assumed that the evolution just stacked on whatever you previously had worked on on a previous evolution. Thanks for clearing it up though, I haven't really looked much into this topic *obviously*.

So yeah, might as well just fully evolve it as soon as I get it then, since I don't really care about Sharpen, Defense Curl, or Recycle.

By the way, can Ditto pass on his nature with the Everstone thing? If so I might just go catch a bunch of different Ditto, lawl.

-Blur

Yes, you can. Catching Ditto's is actually the main way to get the proper natures you want.

[Serperior]

I was talking to Sean earlier today about EV training a Porygon-Z as well. However, I was thinking about maxing out the Special Attack/Speed stats while in the Porygon2 mode, so it'd get as much defense as possible, and then evolving it once it gets to 100. He said it was up to me, but something about it seems like it's a bad idea or something. I'm not really into the competitive battling scene, I just want a favored team at their peak for battling 8D.

That said, if anyone wanted to take a stab at these, could some of you guys maybe fill me in on some good decisions for my planned team? I know some basic things, so I'll jot those down, but I have no idea what I want for moves and such:

*Porygon-Z

-Modest, or neutral if I get fed up with egg hatching

-that first paragraph description up thar.

-Only have Tri-Attack planned for a move so far.

-No idea what item to have it hold

*Zoroark

-No idea for nature, so neutral for now

-EV the Special Attack...and I don't know what for the second

-Not positive on moveset yet

-Blackglasses? Other than that, I don't know for an item, XD.

*Lucario

-No idea for nature, so neutral for now

-EVing kinda depends on the nature I choose

-Had some eggmoves in mind, like Blaze Kick, but aside from that I have nothing

-No idea what item to have it hold

*Metagross

-Can't decide if I want him a physical or special attacker, so the nature depends there. Maybe a bit of both?

-EV training depends on attacker type

-No idea on moveset

-Nor item lawl

*Arcanine

-I'd say a nature that benefits attack, but the movepool for STAB moves for him aren't the greatest in that department, =(.

-EV just speed so far probably, I don't know about the other.

-No idea for moveset

-Probably some fire increasing item like Charcoal or something

*Marowak

-Adamant nature

-EV Attack and Speed

-Just Earthquake so far for moves

-Thick Club for sure

After typing that, I really realized I'm lost on most of this, XD. I know I'd probably get my ass destroyed if anyone I battled set anything up to take out sweepers, but whatever, I just liking using my favorites, XD. But yeah, any help would be awesome 8D.

-Blur

Ok, Porygon Z is best as a quick Special Attacker, so as you said, EVing it in Speed and Special Attack would be best. Modest nature would be the best choice, since Porygon Z's main niche is it's power. As far as movesets go, it may be a bit hard deciding, since it loses a few nice options since I'm assuming this Porygon Z is on a gen 5 game, and I doubt you'd want to breed for specific Hidden Power types and strengths, so I'd reccomend Tri Attack, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Dark Pulse. Tri Attack is there for obvious reasons, Dark Pulse is there to hit ghost types who are immune to Tri Attack, and Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are there thanks to their decent base power and because they get decent neutral type coverage together. As far as items go, Life Orb is probably the best choice, as it gives Porygon Z's attacks a bit more power, and the recoil isn't all that problematic anyway, as Porygon Z will rarely survive attacks anyway.

Now for Zoroark. You'll want a Timid nature, as Zoroark is a pretty fast Pokemon, so you'll probably want to take advantage of it, however Modest is a good nature for it as well if you want power over speed, however with Timid you can outspeed things like Salamence, Volcarona, Hydreigon Garchomp with +Speed natures, and Pokemon like Lati@s, Gengar, Infernape, the Musketeer trio and other Zoroarks without +Speed Natures. As far as EVs go, again, Speed and Special Attack are the way to go with Zoroark. With the moveset, it depends on if you're a fan of set up moves or not. If you're fine with using them, then I'd say the best set would be Nasty Plot, Night Daze/Dark Pulse, Focus Blast and Flamethrower/Extrasensory, however, if you don't like set up moves, go with whichever move you didn't pick out of Flamethrower and Extrasensory, or maybe even Grass Knot if you wanted. Nasty Plot is there because of the fact that it allows Zoroark to hit harder, and since Zoroark is about as bulky as a wet sheet of paper, it'll want to hit as hard as possible before it goes down. Night Daze and Dark Pulse are your STAB Dark moves, although you should only use 1 for better coverage. Your choice should be made on whether you prefer higher power or accuracy, the secondary effects don't matter, as both are pretty nice. Night Daze is better if you want power, and Dark Pulse is better if you don't want to be messed up by a miss. Focus Blast is there for getting close to perfect neutral coverage, and it hits most steel types that may otherwise give you a bit of trouble for very nice damage. It may miss a fair bit due to it's shaky 70 accuracy, which sometimes seems like it misses more than it should, but it's your best option for coverage, and Zoroark gets no good special fighting moves besides this and Hidden Power Fighting, which would require a lot of breeding for, which is why I reccomended Focus Blast. The choice of Flamethrower or Extrasensory comes down to what kinds of Pokemon you'd rather hit for more damage. Neither are really bad for your coverage, as both of them hit the only 2 Pokemon who resist the Dark + Fighting combo (Heracross and Toxicroak) for neutral damage at the very least. Flamethrower is better if you don't like facing Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress and Skarmory, as well as having a slighly more reliable but less weak move to take out steels, while Extrasensory is better for going against fighting types. While I'd personally pick Flamethrower, as Zoroark wouldn't want to stay in on many fighting types anyway, the option is still there. You have 2 choices as far as items go, Life Orb or Focus Sash. Again, Life Orb is a very nice item if you want your Zoroark to be hitting harder, however Focus Sash will let you survive any attack aimed at you. Now the reason why Zoroark could use a Focus Sash and Porygon Z doesn't need it as much is simple. Zoroark can't take a hit from anything. Porygon Z can at least take some attacks. Even attacks Zoroark resists will hurt it a lot, so Focus Sash will allow you to at least take 1 attack.

With Lucario, I'd go for another special attacking set, as that way the amount of physical and special attackers you have are balanced out. Modest nature would be best, and I'll explain why later. As far as moves go, I'd go with Nasty Plot, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball and Vacuum Wave. Nasty Plot, like on Zoroark, is there to boost the power of your moves, and gives Lucario the same benefits as Zoroark, however you'll need to keep your Lucario as a Riolu until level 47 to get this move, but it's worth it. Aura Sphere is there for obvious reasons, it's a STAB move, and if you find someone spamming Double Team, at least you won't be completely helpless. (Unless it's a ghost of course.) The choice of Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball isn't down to power or accuracy this time, as both are exactly the same in that regard. Shadow Ball gets you perfect neutral coverage with Aura Sphere, however Dark Pulse has the better secondary effect, which can possibly cause a flinch. Vacuum Wave is the reason that Modest is used over Timid. It allows you to damage faster Pokemon, and with Modest, it's a bit more powerful as well. It's better to be able to hit a faster Pokemon with a somewhat weak attack (And even then Lucario gets STAB from it so it's got base 60 power rather than 40 on the plus side) rather than be absolutely helpless against a faster Pokemon. It also allows you to finish off weakened Pokemon before they can do anything else. The power may be a bit dissapointing, but it can be very helpful in some situations. As for items, again, Lucario can run life orb for the same reasons as the previous 2, however, the Air Balloon item is decent on it as well, as it gives it a ground immunity until it's hit by an attack. This can actually get you quite a few surprise kills against non CPU opponents who try to use a ground attack on you. If you do use it though, make sure Lucario doesn't get hit early on.

There are 2 ways you can go about training Metagross, it depends on if you want a bulky one or an all out offensive one. While I'd say you're better off going with a bulky one, since your team is really frail, you can go for an offensive one if you want. With both sets, you'll want to put your EVs into attack, as even on the bulky set that attack is too high to not abuse. On the bulky set, you'll want to put the rest of your EVs into HP, while on the offensive set, you should put the rest of it into Speed. For the bulky set, a Careful nature is the best option, while Adamant is best on the offensive one. The movesets aren't too different between the 2. On the bulky one you'll want Stealth Rock, Meteor Mash, Earthquake and Bullet Punch, while on the offensive one Agility, Meteor Mash, Earthquake and Zen Headbutt are the best choices. (I'd normally say something like Thunderpunch would be better than Zen Headbutt, but, again, I'm assuming this is gen 5 only.) Stealth Rock is extremely good for weakening the foe's Pokemon, and makes anyone using Pokemon like Charizard and Yanmega want to crawl into the corner and cry. Meteor Mash is there as a STAB option, and also has the chance of raising your attack 1 stage, which is a very good thing for Metagross. Earthquake is there because Earthquake is an amazing move. Bullet Punch is on the bulky set for the same reasons that Vacuum Wave is on Lucario. Agility is on the offensive one because it allows Metagross to get past it's main problem offensively, it's somewhat bad base speed, it outspeeds a surprising amount of Pokemon, even after just 1 agility. Zen Headbutt is there because it's a STAB move, and it doesn't really have many other options that are good anyway. Leftovers would be good choices on both sets, however Life Orb can work on the offensive one.

Now for Arcanine. Adamant would be the best nature for it, because as far as special attacking goes, it's sub par at best, so there's no point in using it in that department. Max out Arcanine's Attack and Speed, so it can hit as hard and fast as possible. With movesets, Arcanine's options aren't too wide, but wide enough to do what it needs to do well. Flare Blitz, Extremespeed, Wild Charge and Morning Sun are the best choices for it, although Close Combat can also go in one of these slots if you really want to use it. Flare Blitz is there because it's a STAB move and really powerful at that. Extremespeed, like Vacuum Wave and Bullet Punch on Lucario and Metagross, is there to hit faster Pokemon. Wild Charge is there to hit the Water types Arcanine will be seeing a lot for super effective damage, and Morning Sun is there to heal off the recoil you'll get from Flare Blitz and Wild Charge. Leftovers is the best item for Arcanine (You can get a second Leftovers by making a trade for a Munchlax in Undella for a Cincinno during Summer) although Life Orb works as well.

Lastly, Marowak. You seem to have a good idea on what you're doing with Marowak, although I'd reccomend that you move it's speed EVs into HP, as Marowak is extremely slow either way, and you don't have anything that can paralyse anything, so it'll pretty much never outspeed anything anyway. As far as moves go, I'd reccomend Earthquake, Stone Edge, Double Edge and Substitute, although you must have Rock Head as an ability for this to work. Earthquake is there as a STAB move, and an extremely good one at that. Stone Edge is there for good neutral coverage again, however if the accuracy is offputting Rock Slide is always an option. Double Edge is there for the high power, and because of Rock Head you'll be taking no damage from it. Substitute is there so you can take a hit for free if you set it up. I probably would've put one of the elemental punches on here, but it's gen 4 only. Thick Club is also an amazing item, so you made a good choice in using it.

I apologise for the wall of text, but I thought I'd try to help, and at least justify the choices I made so they don't seem like bad ones.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Serperior

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

If only I could +rep the above post 100 times.