Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Barry the Nomad]

Jesus! You scared me when I saw the topic title change! I thought there was an official blog entry with the title announcement! As it stands, I'm going to wait until Sega makes an official announcement. But if it's true, I'm stoked!

Yes the quality of the game is more important than the title, but the fact that we could say that there IS a Sonic 4 would be pretty cool.

Consider Mega Man or Star Wars. Both went in completely different areas (the Mega Man X series and the many Star Wars cartoons, books and made for tv movies), but eventually both went back to their roots and built on the original series (Mega Man 9 and 10, the Star Wars Prequels).

Sega (presumably) going back to Sonic 4 isn't crazy, it's expected after nearly 20 years of Sonic games! Hey, Mario did it too.

Had to add, for those thinking Sonic & Knuckles poses a challenge to the "4" title, consider Sonic CD.

Oh, and finally the 2D series beats out the 3D series in number of games!

Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992)

Sonic the Hedgehog CD (1993)

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (1994)

Sonic & Knuckles (1994)

Project Needlemouse (2010)

Sonic Adventure (1998)

Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)

Sonic Heroes (2003)

Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

Sonic Unleashed (2008)

(Yes, I didn't count Shadow the Hedgehog)

Edited January 31, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[Sega DogTagz]

Consider Mega Man or Star Wars. Both went in completely different areas (the Mega Man X series and the many Star Wars cartoons, books and made for tv movies), but eventually both went back to their roots and built on the original series (Mega Man 9 and 10, the Star Wars Prequels).

Consider what happened the last time Sonic Team tried to evoke a sequel to a highly regarded title. SA3 was revived for Unleashed and the end result ended up so far away from the start that they had to change the name. (although the JPN name still has that adventure flair). I really don't see why I should expect any different from Needlemouse. I beleive Sonic 4 will go the way of SA3.

disclaimer: this post makes no statements about the quality of the games involved.

Oh, and finally the 2D series beats out the 3D series in number of games!

Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992)

Sonic the Hedgehog CD (1993)

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (1994)

Sonic & Knuckles (1994)

Project Needlemouse (2010)

Sonic Adventure (1998)

Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)

Sonic Heroes (2003)

Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

Sonic Unleashed (2008)

(Yes, I didn't count Shadow the Hedgehog)

Phooey. Everyone knows S3&K is one game.

Also, can someone explain to me why we are promoting Needlemouse to the "main console title" status? especially if it ends up on PSN/Download only?

methinks someone is getting ahead of themselves.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Sega DogTagz

[Tornado]

Because there is nothing substantial to suggest that it wont be?

[Remy]

Also, can someone explain to me why we are promoting Needlemouse to the "main console title" status? especially if it ends up on PSN/Download only?

No way sonic's HD revival is going to be a PSN/XBLA only title

[Sega DogTagz]

Because there is nothing substantial to suggest that it wont be?

That argument works both ways... and weeing as how the gross majority of Sonic games do not belong to the mainstream title category, I tend to think that this argument actually works more-so in my favor.

No way sonic's HD revival is going to be a PSN/XBLA only title

Rumors are rumors (like the Sonic 4 one going around).

Still, my point remains the same.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Sega DogTagz

[Rusty Spy]

wat

touche'

Also, considering how much attention this game's getting, what with these challenges and such, it'd make no sense for it to end up as a simple downloadable title.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Black Spy

[Tornado]

That argument works both ways... and weeing as how the gross majority of Sonic games do not belong to the mainstream title category, I tend to think that this argument actually works more-so in my favor.

Sega has been hyping the ever-loving shit out of it for a few months now, and they seem to have gotten the entire Internet to stop mocking them for long enough for the game to actually come out. No way in hell that it won't end up being positioned by Sega as a main game in the series, and no way in hell that it won't be a disc release (unless Sega has become even more catatonically stupid than they normally are).

[Sega DogTagz]

Sega has been hyping the ever-loving shit out of it for a few months now, and they seem to have gotten the entire Internet to stop mocking them for long enough for the game to actually come out. No way in hell that it won't end up being positioned by Sega as a main game in the series, and no way in hell that it won't be a disc release (unless Sega has become even more catatonically stupid than they normally are).

I never said it wouldn't be a disc release, I said "especially so" if it does happen to be DL.

And Sega can hype the game all they want. People spoke praises of the attempts on Secret Rings before it came out and that never made it to the mainstream. Just because needlemouse is a platformer, doesn't mean we should just promote it to the upper tiers of mainstream. In all likelihood, if this game sells (which it will) it will end up as its own series (like the storybook variant). We all know there will be a mainstream game in 2011 which casts further doubt onto the mainstream standing of this one (although a minimal amount due to the shortened dev cycle of a 2D game).

[Tornado]

I don't think Sega themselves ever motioned for Secret Rings to be anything but a spin-off game, though.

[Sega DogTagz]

I don't think Sega themselves ever motioned for Secret Rings to be anything but a spin-off game, though.

I am just curious how people come to the assumption that needlemouse is though. We've had several home console platformers that don't make the list is all I am saying.

We will probably have a much better idea when the next set of info drops.

[Remy]

I am just curious how people come to the assumption that needlemouse is though. We've had several home console platformers that don't make the list is all I am saying.

Only games recently that aren't "main" are spin offs on the wii.

[Phos]

Except, y'know, referencing Sonic 2 (Tails' daydream) and Sonic CD (Amy's daydream) and basing its story on something from the Japanese Sonic 3 manual.

There was never any reset.

It always seems to me as thought the Adventure and beyond stories are based on the classic series rather than following directly after it. There are many inconsistencies, and the idea of Never Lake being in the same universe as the likes of G.U.N. gives me whiplash.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Phos

[brobotnik]

Then why 7 emeralds instead of 6? Sonic's age started as 18, then changed to 16 or so. The story retcons, from Sonic 2, to Sonic 3, to Sonic & Knuckles. It doesn't matter.

...the series has never had an absolutely rock-solid continuity ... It's cartoon time; ... Characters age when the writers want them to age, and don't when they don't.

This is actually the camp I belong to, and the reason I'm alright with and in favor of the prospect of SEGA changing things around in Needlemouse. There really isn't a concrete Sonic canon, whether you're talking about the genesis era or the series since Adventure 1. You guys can try and preserve a set sonic "canon" between the 2D and 3D games, but it doesn't much matter when the game developers themselves saw fit to change or introduce so many elements. They always alter the characters and the setting to fit whatever it is they're trying to make the newest game into, which I applaud. Green Hill Zone is radically different from Station Square is radically different from Soleanna is radically different from Apotos, in design, tone and as an overall setting for the characters, because each one of those games was trying something new. I think that's fantastic, even on the rare occasion that the attempt turned out to be pretty bad.

You guys gave some answers to my questions, but they're all based on info culled from manuals, promo artwork, suggested in-game interactions and events that are never seen, or just fan-based assumptions that can never be proven one way or the other. The development teams absolutely did change things up between the Genesis and the Dreamcast games. Things that weren't necessary in sprite-based games with no cutscenes were suddenly altered or invented for the age in which dialogue and narrative both drive the interactions just as much as gameplay. I know I'm the weird one out in this position as filling huge blanks or gaps in the overall narrative with fan-based speculation is basically the major inspiration for this kind of community, so if you don't consider that level of change to be a reset or a retcon, then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

And I'm not saying reset/retcon in a negative light, either. To get this back on track with the main discussion, Needlemouse could spark a new series that makes this franchise popular and widely-beloved again WITHOUT dropping established characters or completely forgetting the games that have popped up in the last twelve years like so many people want. Just like Adventure 1, all they have to do is present them in a different way to make them seem fresh and interesting. The series has gotten convoluted and over-complicated and I think a lot of characters could be much better off if they're reintroduced in a new light. One that, hopefully, doesn't immediately contradict itself (first and second on the list being Silver and Blaze, obviously).

And as long as I'm harping on and on, I'd also like it if they gave Tails his younger-sounding voice back.

(...Also, the topic name-change got me good, too. I leave for a few hours, come back, and think I've missed the leak of the century.)

[Brianzilla2004]

So much talk about spin-offs, but I'm not entirely sure what the hell makes a game a spin-off. I mean, Shadow the Hedgehog is a completely necessary step in the Sonic storyline. Without it, the gap between the Shadow of Heroes and Sonic 2006 stands all too tall. Hell, Heroes isn't even much of a main game. It has that gawdy Team gimmick and its story is nigh nonexistent. Sonic the Hedgehog CD is another game that's thrown into the "main" series a lot, but it doesn't tie into the original trilogy at all, and the fact that no mention of the Little Planet or the Time Stones has ever graced a game since makes it feel even less a part of the main storyline. It did introduce Amy and Metal Sonic, but then again, Knuckles' Chaotix introduced Charmy, Espio and Vector.

There really doesn't seem to be any universal set of rules that governs all of the "main" series games. Aside from StH, StH2, StH3, S&K, SA, SA2, StH2006 and SU, I have trouble determining what is what. Even Sonic 2006 featured Blaze, and seemed to attempt to tie itself to the Rush series, and Sonic Unleashed was such a major departure from previous 3D titles that it feels more like a spin-off than a main game (a spin-off that I pray won't get a sequel). So... yeah.

[Marcello]

Aquaslash you bastard. I got excited when I saw the Topic name .

I'd laugh if SEGA did make these domain names and still end up calling the game something different. Like they just made the sites to trick people and get them excited. But I do want the game to be called Sonic 4. I've started really liking the sound of it.

[BakingBluePotatoe]

Aquaslash you bastard. I got excited when I saw the Topic name .

I'd laugh if SEGA did make these domain names and still end up calling the game something different. Like they just made the sites to trick people and get them excited. But I do want the game to be called Sonic 4. I've started really liking the sound of it.

must've stolen Ninty's drugs or something (I swear, the Pokemon guys do this all the time.. register a domain, then never use it. XD)

[Detective Shadzter]

SOA's YouTube page hints at trailer coming?

First SEGA of America tease by updating their forums header image to 4 Sonic 1 sprites and now today they've changed the pic on their YouTube page from the SEGA logo to a pic from the Needlemouse trailer -

http://www.youtube.com/user/SegaAmerica

I was on their channel last night and it was just the SEGA logo. So anyway being YouTube and all could this be a hint they may be releasing a trailer this week?

SEGA Europe and SEGA Japan's YouTube page's still have the SEGA logo in their pic.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SEGAEurope'>http://www.youtube.com/user/SEGAEurope

http://www.youtube.com/user/SEGA

[Patticus]

It's really quite remarkable what people can divine from the tiniest of alterations. Still... a proper gameplay trailer would be great.

[Detective Shadzter]

It's really quite remarkable what people can divine from the tiniest of alterations. Still... a proper gameplay trailer would be great.

I'm not going all serious and stoked over it, I'm just putting it out there is all.

[Barry the Nomad]

I don't think it's so much about plot or canon as it is about gameplay and the starring character.

If it appears on a home console, features Sonic as the starring character and features the core elements of a Sonic game (as laid out in Sonic 1), then it is a main series Sonic game. At least, thats how the structure works for me (and apparently Wikipedia as well).

One can take or leave Sonic 3D Blast, but to me it is more of a 3D game of Flicky than it is a Sonic game. However, I totally understand if one wanted to include that in their "main series".

Shadow the Hedgehog and Chaotix are a gray area as they have all of the above but Sonic, and both put a little spin on the standard gameplay (connecting two characters with an elastic band, having multiple missions within a level and featuring weapons and vehicles).

ANd in regards to a downloadable game not being "worthy" of joining the ranks of the main series, thats rubbish. Play Mega Man 9 and then tell me that it is not at the same level as Mega Man 1-8.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[turbojet]

Oh, and finally the 2D series beats out the 3D series in number of games!

Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992)

Sonic the Hedgehog CD (1993)

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (1994)

Sonic & Knuckles (1994)

Project Needlemouse (2010)

Sonic Adventure (1998)

Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)

Sonic Heroes (2003)

Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

Sonic Unleashed (2008)

(Yes, I didn't count Shadow the Hedgehog)

Chaotix?

[Drunk Michael Myers]

One can take or leave Sonic 3D Blast, but to me it is more of a 3D game of Flicky than it is a Sonic game. However, I totally understand if one wanted to include that in their "main series".

I include it in my series of "real" Sonic games. It had a story, it was in fact the closet thing you could come to a real Sonic game on the saturn(not counting Jam). It's a brigde between the 2D era and real 3D era.

Oh and just to release my inner nerd from my selfe, i also count Chaotix and Shadow in the series. Only because Sonic is not in the full time, it does not mean that Friday The 13th Part 5 is not a Friday film because Jason's not in it. Everyone has a mind of his own.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Michael Myers

[Barry the Nomad]

Inner nerd... coming out.... ARRRGH!!!!

Yeah, I group Shadow and Chaotix in my main series as well, treating them as one would treat Final Fantasy X-2. If one is simply looking as Sonic games with Sonic as a character, I push Shadow and Chaotix to the side. However, overall I feel that they both deserve a spot in the "main series". They're still important plotwise, and are very similar to the Sonic titles gameplay-wise (hell, I prefer Shadow to Sonic '06).

Edited January 31, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[Gamerguy21]

First SEGA of America tease by updating their forums header image to 4 Sonic 1 sprites

I can't believe I didn't realize this before. That new SEGA header might also be hinting that this game is called Sonic 4 (because it has 4 old school Sonic sprites).

Oh, and I'm pretty sure SEGA of America had that as their icon since 9/9/09(when they uploaded the trailer to youtube). Perhaps you were looking at a different SEGA channel and mistaked it for the SOA one?

[Tornado]

It did introduce Amy and Metal Sonic, but then again, Knuckles' Chaotix introduced Charmy, Espio and Vector.

The circumstances were very different.