Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Red Hot Jack]

13 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

How is making her just another antiheroic rival for Sonic any better than that though? She needs something to standout and separate her from the rest. 

Like I said, Sonic has a million rivals already, some of which are also of the speedy variety. You know what he doesn't have? A lot of actual villains personal to him. 

I'm not Ian, I assume he wants to keep her a villain. But I saw her rage and her motive, she wants to destroy the world because her former identity is lost and Starline messed up her life. She is not some psycho villain for no reason. She is not 100% evil, I still don't know the direction of the story but I think it would be cool if she accepted her new identity and chooses to be who she wants to be. Not what Starline made her into. This isn't even Surge, she is another person hypnotized and manipulated by Dr. Starline. That arc would be cool, just saying...

But I also want a story, and this would be the ending of it, so yeah keep her a villain for a while. I agree.

[Kuzu]

13 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

I'm not Ian, I assume he wants to keep her a villain. But I saw her rage and her motive, she wants to destroy the world because her former identity is lost and Starline messed up her life. She is not some psycho villain for no reason. She is not 100% evil, I still don't know the direction of the story but I think it would be cool if she accepted her new identity and chooses to be who she wants to be. Not what Starline made her into. This isn't even Surge, she is another person hypnotized and manipulated by Dr. Starline. That arc would be cool, just saying...

But I also want a story, and this would be the ending of it, so yeah keep her a villain for a while. I agree.

And that's a fair direction....but it's also extremely similar to Shadow's own crisis of identity that also ended with him choosing to be his own person instead of what others tell him to be. Not that I don't think Ian couldn't dress it up into something unique, but I feel like that's the reason he specifically wants to keep Surge a villain so that she has something that sets her apart from Sonic's other rivals. 

And I feel like Surge is meant to kind of be an Anti-Shadow as much as she is an Anti-Sonic, which makes sense because Starline used both of their data to create her. She's also already quoted Shadow twice in the last two issues alone. Shadow managed to make peace with himself and his past and choose to move on, so to me, it sounds much more interesting to have a character who stubbornly refuses to move on from their designated purpose even if it's ultimately self-destructive for them. 

It keeps Surge sympathetic but still a threat at the same time and that's why I feel like she's good; she has the audience's sympathy, but it doesn't at all excuse what she does. That is a much more unique position for her to occupy as an antagonist than her simply becoming good and getting lost in the shuffle of Sonic's other rivals. 

[Red Hot Jack]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

And that's a fair direction....but it's also extremely similar to Shadow's own crisis of identity that also ended with him choosing to be his own person instead of what others tell him to be. Not that I don't think Ian couldn't dress it up into something unique, but I feel like that's the reason he specifically wants to keep Surge a villain so that she has something that sets her apart from Sonic's other rivals. 

And I feel like Surge is meant to kind of be an Anti-Shadow as much as she is an Anti-Sonic, which makes sense because Starline used both of their data to create her. Shadow managed to make peace with himself and his past and choose to move on, so to me, it sounds much more interesting to have a character who stubbornly refuses to move on from their designated purpose even if it's ultimately self-destructive for them. 

It keeps Surge sympathetic but still a threat at the same time and that's why I feel like she's good; she has the audience's sympathy, but it doesn't at all excuse what she does. That is a much more unique position for her to occupy as an antagonist than her simply becoming good and getting lost in the shuffle of Sonic's other rivals. 

Yeah I get that would be similar to Shadow and I hope they at least don't go back and forth and nowhere with her becoming an anti-hero with no emotions. Maybe there are twists or different directions. It's early to say where this arc will go. For Starline I just knew he was setting up for a big failure, there were too many red flags for me.

[Kuzu]

I mean, that's basically the entire theme for all of them.  Surge, Kit, and Starline are all perverted imitations of Sonic, Tails, and Eggman. They have similarities but are ultimately inferior due to lacking their better traits. Its for that reason they all lost. Starline spend all of his time planning scheming and was still outdone by Eggman. Sonic isn't at all phased by Surge since, in his own words, "he's done this before", and Kit is too weak-willed to act unless someone tells him to and is easily talked down by Tails' better communication skills. 

 

Starline led to his own death, and if Surge and Kit don't learn their lesson, I could see a similar fate. That said, Surge and Kit are much more sympathetic than Starline since the latter brought everything on himself while Surge and Kit were forced to be who they are now. But a character having a sympathetic backstory is not the same as actually being sympathetic .

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Surge at the moment is a lit powder keg ready to blow up in the face of the first person who gets in her way. Her abrasive attitude will not just disappear. I suspect she'll be her own side, threatening to burn the world down by herself. No redemption arc.

 

The next villain has also been referenced. Mimic is still on the loose. Remember when Whisper took off for a bit? Mimic's due a second round, and could be the final one.

[Darkvizardberrytan]

I just would rather have Kit stay a villain. Of the two he is the one more mentally messed up and over dangerous. give him a large enough water source and I am sure he would lay waste to a lot.

[Razule]

It'd be more interesting if they stayed a duo and developed an actual, twisted bond, but I think Sonic needs a redemption win after all this. One bad guy turning to show he has a point.

[Ducktor Naldush]

On 7/5/2022 at 5:00 AM, Razule said:

It'd be more interesting if they stayed a duo and developed an actual, twisted bond, but I think Sonic needs a redemption win after all this. One bad guy turning to show he has a point.

Thing is, with this comic being based as close as possible on the games, Sonic has shown that he has a point countless times, that's something he has been saying since the beginning of this series. Shadow, Gemerl, technically Knuckles if we want to consider that something close to Sonic 3 had to actually take place in this continuity. We just haven't seen one "redemption" stick in the comic proper, but they absolutely happened.

[Sega DogTagz]

I feel like pointing back to Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze or any of the other truckload of reclamation projects Sonic has had a hand in is justification enough.

 

If Sonic needs a "win" per se, teaming up with one of those guys would be a better proof positive than flipping someone new. 

 

 

 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Have yet to read it, but in honour of Issue 50, I have created a meme testament to Starline's arc. forgive some of the cropping issues please lol

"I'm better than okay, I'm Dr. Eggman!" 

"Hah! You wish!" 

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Have yet to read it, but in honour of Issue 50, I have created a meme testament to Starline's arc. forgive some of the cropping issues please lol

"I'm better than okay, I'm Dr. Eggman!" 

"Hah! You wish!" 

I'm so glad that I wasn't the only one who thought of this lol. 

[Guergy]

The Frank Grimes episode was one of the darkest episodes of the Simpsons. It essentially brought back early season Homer Simpson to meet the newer season Homer Simpson. It asks the question of, what would happen if we brought a real person to the world of the Simpsons? And it serves as a an internal deconstruction of the Simpsons and its world. While Frank is not without fault, it serves as an insight as to why going to Springfield is not a good idea. See also, this analysis of the episode: 

 

[Promethean0416]

Yeah, I remember that one. 

And nice parallel to Starline's fall.

Spoiler

"What's this? Some falling rocks? Well, they should not hurt me because I am Doctor Egg..."

 

[Silvereyes]

My theory: Starline survives the rubble but winds up with head trauma, giving him amnesia. He winds up in a small village with no idea who he is and starts making toys for the children. But the toys aren't very good, and Starline hears of a "Mr Tinker" who is meant to be great at making toys. Starline idolises Mr Tinker and hopes to meet him one day and help him make better toys.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Finally got around to reading the issue.

Spoiler

I'd say it's about the best the series has seen to date. I'm not 100% certain if I'd go there, because Issue 24 with Tangle's last stand against the Zombots also remains one of the absolute highlights of the series for me. but I do think things are handled extremely well here. To get into things bit by bit:

-As a quick aside - Again, while I think the issue was really damn good, I still don't think it was particularly good enough to justify all of the failings that'd come before. I don't think it did much to rectify Starline's constant intrusions on arcs, I don't think it excuses the awful pacing we had over the last few months alternating main issues and miniseries issues - completely defeating the purpose of a miniseries as a result, and I don't think it justifies the filler arcs we've had between Issue 40 and Issue 50 when that time could've been better spent better setting things up.

Now then...

Sonic: In all honesty, I felt really torn about Sonic and Surge's battle. On one hand, I honestly think how they portray Sonic is actually really well done here. I thought they did a really great job depicting Sonic multiple ways here - as the confident snark-lord we always know, as the kind hero who wants to help others, as the experienced fighter who's seen more than his fair share of rodeos by now, and even a look past all that to get a nice emotive glimpse of who Sonic is under the bravado.

While the speech about wanting to experience the world was neat, I think my favourite moment of the issue, Sonic wise - was at the very end, when Surge decides to spitefully fall down the pit. Where Sonic gives that final, resigned look of sadness, and simply says "The hard part about letting people make their own choices is that they usually make the wrong ones..." - I think it was a really nice way to both show Sonic sticking by his ideals, but the frustration that comes when those same ideals lead to a bad result in the end. 

I think where the frustration starts for me, really is that I'm just so sick of the talk about morals and ideals and everything else. We've all long had to accept the fact they can't do absolutely nothing about it, and Sonic is now characterised as someone who will let literally anyone run free after an ass-kicking. How many times can we have a character constantly bring up the same tired shit of "if sonic put an end to this, stuff wouldn't happen" and why are you gonna keep doing it if you're going to feel the need to constantly have him do it anyway?

It's the same annoying trait of those people who want to constantly include the "IF BATMAN KILLED PEOPLE, PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE HURT!!!" argument into the comics/shows/games/whatever constantly. He can't do it, there'd be no villains if he did so, we have to accept that. I get Ian might've wanted to conclude it since it was brought up, but if it's still ultimately falling back to the same point of Sonic thinks it's the right thing to do, others disagree. Bringing it up over and over again for the sake of bringing it up just keeps making it drag out.

And arguably, I'd still say how they handled it with Shadow back in Issue 6 was the best one, since Shadow literally was an example of Sonic's kindness paying off (although it's a moot point now when Shadow has been so utterly butchered in his characterisation that it's less he's redeemed himself into a hero, and more he's just doing whatever to prove he's the strongest alive). 

It's really frustrating because I really do think where they were going - characterisation wise - with Sonic here is genuinely really strong, it's just coming after so many times of it constantly going back up, with no real answer to it beyond "well imma kick your ass" and I kinda wish it'd stop being brought up. Surge blaming all of it on Sonic frankly felt really off to me as well. 

Surge: In all honesty, I don't really have much of an opinion on Surge here, given her strong performance in Imposter Syndrome. It seemed like for the hyped confrontation of the two, Surge was only really there to springboard Sonic's ideals and way of life. The fight was mostly just her getting furious with the whole moral debate again.

I will say, I think it was neat how they did genuinely explain why she's an anthesis to Sonic's morals though - it's not that she's just 'bad and wants the world destroyed' - it's that when Sonic gives her the freedom speech, Surge had already reasoned out that by this point - her life must've been truly awful if no one bothered to search for her, if no one bothered to save her. It gives us a look into Surge's frame of mind. I still think some things were off though (Along with blaming Sonic for everything, I thought it was weird that she assumed she 'volunteered' for Starline's experiments, when the more likely answer is that the psycho kidnapped her and Kit). Not bad by any means, but it does feel like Surge had some weirdly misplaced anger to justify bring Sonic's 'arc' to a close. I think it was neat how utterly spiteful she was to the bitter end, even if we all know she ain't gone, not by a long shot lol.

The fight itself is where everything was really strong. How they depicted Sonic's speed outpacing Surge's speed, Surge charging herself up with electricity and getting into a battle stance with what could be best described as a full on DBZ aura was all stellar stuff. 

Tails: I honestly once again really liked how he was depicted here. It's no secret that Ian's been like the one source of decent Tails characterisation since Lost World, but this is the greatest example of where it actually feels like we've gotten the logical conclusion of Tails' character arcs throughout SA1 and so on. Here, he's an experienced hero who's been in numerous battle against Eggman. He immediately understands and sympathises with Kit because he knows all to well the lack of confidence in one's self, and desperately feeling like you need to rely on others. 

Having Tails use that experience not only to avoid Kit, but to try to actually talk to him really does a great job of showing how Tails in some ways can be a better hero than Sonic. Sonic's a good guy, but you can understand that his snark and teasing can throw others off while Tails is more sincere about it, and it was nice seeing him use personal experience and growth as well to better understand and try to talk to Kit.

Kit: Honestly, it was pretty horrifying seeing just how much Starline has really screwed with these two. I mean, we know full well how horrific it was from the miniseries, but it was genuinely sad seeing how broken Kit basically is - all by design no less. Between his woeful self-esteem, his utter hatred towards Starline, how cold and calculating he can be, how confused he is by Tails showing him the slightest bit of kindness towards him, and his utter devotion to Surge, all because Tails implied the idea of breaking up their fight, Kit is the perfect product of how much of a awful scumbag Starline really, truly is. Him full on shutting down because he failed Surge in the end was also pretty nuts.

Eggman: Stole the freaking show. After being such a non-essence in the comic for a long time, Eggman really showed how full of shit Starline is here. Revealing how he'd been using Starline's preconceptions of him for ages against him (The power core theft, Starline assuming he wasn't listening to a word he said about his own creations), how he can accept that he makes mistakes, the utter clowning he gives Starline, it was all absolutely wonderful. 

I honestly really loved how they introduced something new but neat to this rivalry. I'd been complaining this whole time about how Starline's entire shtick was the same thing over and over again - constantly complaining and trying to deconstruct the flaws of the other characters, claiming how he wouldn't make those same mistakes, only to end up doing them, if not doing them on a much higher scale - over and over again.

However, Eggman here really makes it clear how designed that was. Starline could 'deconstruct' all of those problems all he wants, but at the end of the day, Starline is also such an egotistical dipshit that he never bothered to take steps to avoid them. He just assumes deconstructing and claiming your enemies don't have foresight somehow circles around to him actually being much more intelligent and looking ahead of everyone else.

Meanwhile, Eggman has zero problems legitimately admitting that he sincerely screwed things up - but he also had very little trouble just immediately going right back into the flow and bouncing back. Starline had tunnel vision in that he could only see what he perceived to be Sonic and Eggman's flaws, and assume he was too intelligent to fall into them, meanwhile Eggman has enough humility (surprisingly) to be able to say he screwed up, and at least take a few steps to ensure he doesn't screw it up again - and Starline just ended up the very unfortunate victim of that lesson when he was the one to assume Eggman would screw up the exact same way he did with the Metal Virus.

Starline: I honestly don't want to get too much into Starline. I've gone on at length, over and over and over again about all the shit about Starline that annoys and frustrated me up until this point. 

I will say - I did very much end up getting a very excellent payoff seeing Eggman absolutely destroy months of Starline's work and prove that Starline was absolutely full of it. Seeing Starline begin to absolutely lose it as he realised just how much he'd underestimated everyone in general was a much needed moment of payoff after all the stupid shit he'd done for well over a year now, and especially after what we saw in Imposter Syndrome with his actions to Kit and Surge.

I do feel like at the end, Starline ended up just being the Frank Grimes of Sonic. A character created to criticise and deconstruct various aspects of the franchise and point out "how he could do it better" - yet he couldn't understand the actual details of these characters that allow them to continue on for as long as they have. He could only see things at a surface level and couldn't stand to think outside of how he thinks about things. 

I think that's what makes these fights so interesting is after all the build-up, let's just face it - it was an absolutely curb-stomp. Sonic had zero problems with Surge and treated it like a fun game, Tails took his fight with Kit seriously because he understood the depth to Kit's problems, and Eggman just absolutely clowned on Starline, and it's all because Starline just cannot understand for the life of him - what makes these people who they are. He can't understand that while Eggman doesn't plan things out well and can be childish, he's also still a genius capable of learning from his mistakes.

He can't understand why Sonic and Tails makes such a great team and how they help balance each other out and push each other along, so he makes a bad pairing with Kit and Surge that starts and ends with Surge utterly lashing out at everything without a clear focus, and Kit falling apart due to his utter obsession with 'helping Surge'. I think it was a excellent payoff in the idea that Starline was a wannabe egotist who had no idea just what on earth he was doing, and all he ended up causing was more pain and anguish for innocents, for ultimately very little.

Maybe with all the pieces together, and a full re-read, this whole Starline arc will play out in terms of my opinion. As is, I think it was an excellent payoff to what was a very frustrating character. 

Metal Sonic/Belle: Keeping these two together because I honestly don't have much of an opinion on them. I think Belle having another talk with Eggman was neat enough, it was nice to see her get closure, but I feel like it's just sort of the same thing as we've had as always - she's a fine enough character, but I don't really feel invested or interested enough in her story to have her be such a constant presence in the last year or two of the book, especially compared to Tangle and Whisper. Metal Sonic on the other hand just felt like a plot device to give us that moment of "oh boy, looks like Eggman has something up his sleeve here". 

I guess it'll be interesting to see how things play out from here, but eh. I still feel it was the weakest of the four arcs running through this issue.

So yeah, ultimately - very excellent issue. Don't think it fixes the pacing issues or the arc interruptions from Starline, but a very solid story nonetheless.

 

[Duelistic Nature]

Do most of you read the issues digitally or in paperback?

Besides is there any known status on when there will be new prints from 6 and onwards? I'm able to find a few of volume 6, but from All or nothing (number 7) and Out of the Blue (number 8 ) they are all out.

[Rabbitearsblog]

6 hours ago, Duelistic Nature said:

Do most of you read the issues digitally or in paperback?

Besides is there any known status on when there will be new prints from 6 and onwards? I'm able to find a few of volume 6, but from All or nothing (number 7) and Out of the Blue (number 8 ) they are all out.

I prefer to read the series in those big collections books.  Since most of the stories here are interconnected with each other, it makes it easier for me to be able to read the entire story without worrying about having to wait for months for an issue to come out.

[caitash]

I read them digitally, the places I frequent online would have too many spoilers if I didn’t read them within the first 1-3 days. I haven’t got a local comic shop anymore (UK based) and ain’t nobody got time for waiting for post when there’s a perfectly serviceable digital option right there.

I used to get them on the IDW app but there became too many problems with the issues not appearing on there for ages after release day so now I get them though Amazon/Kindle.

[Silvereyes]

Buy the comics digitally on Amazon Comixology on release day to avoid spoilers, and also so I can participate in this thread. I am subscribed to physical issues with Forbidden Planet, but since they send me the comics like once every 3 months or so, it is why I buy them digitally but also prefer to have an actual physical copy. I also plan at some point in the future after I move house to buy the hardcover IDW Collections and the 30th Anniversary hardcover because they look very sleek and cool and easy to read, but obviously the IDW Collections are quite far behind the actual run right now. (Hopefully IDW Collection 3 will be announced soon). Will pick them up when they go on sale. Mind you this does mean I'm effectively triple dipping for the same issues in the long, but considering how invested I am in the IDW run, and how much I enjoy it, I don't mind. Mind you, it probably shows that I am not very frugal or smart with my money, so take that how you will...

[Duelistic Nature]

Thanks you all for the answers.

I got into the comics by the very same 2 IDW collection volumes and the Encyclo-speed-ia. Just reading those first 20 issues sorta gotten me hooked for me. So far that I'm debating getting them digitally just to read them and get the issues on hard paper whenever they come out in these collection volumes. However given we're on issue 52 or so right now I'm suprised there hasn't been a collection number 3 being announced since the collection book span about 10 to 12 issues.

[Darkvizardberrytan]

I prefer he just stay dead. It would actually show the book is not afraid to kill off more characters than just offsets like whispers team. He got folded and foiled. Play around with the villians you still have for now and maybe introduce someone else in the future.

[Cuz]

I read them paperback, and just don't mind spoiler, never did really. Though that time gap is also partly why I don't follow the converstion so much. 

[caitash]

Preview pages for issue 51:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Silvereyes]

OK, that is pretty hilarious, Sonic chucking Belle, doing a whirlwind, then catching her in time.

[dudebro1993]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:52 PM, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Surge at the moment is a lit powder keg ready to blow up in the face of the first person who gets in her way. Her abrasive attitude will not just disappear. I suspect she'll be her own side, threatening to burn the world down by herself. No redemption arc.

The next villain has also been referenced. Mimic is still on the loose. Remember when Whisper took off for a bit? Mimic's due a second round, and could be the final one.

Did I miss something? What villain?