Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

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Likely a shitty one considering how little resemblance it'd have to what it's supposedly trying to adapt.

I'm sorry, and you're certain of this how again? Because I don't see any evidence of this possibility being shitty.

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Because we're at a point where people are suggesting that not having two of the game's main characters isn't going to have any meaningful effect on an adaptation of the game and that's just nonsense.

No, that's being open-minded to a possibility.

And that is still no excuse for you to go strawmanning that as blindly taking a hatchet to something.

[DiamondX]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Short version:

1. Forces sucks.
2. The comic's not even starting until months after Forces comes out, well past the point where it can actually reasonably promote the game.
3. The comic's better served by establishing its own world early on rather than trying to adapt games.
4. Forces has a reasonably large cast of returning characters (on both the Resistance and Team Evil) and expects you to know about them and their history, but a new comic isn't going to have even a fraction of those characters well established any time soon.
5. Forces sucks.

You seriously put the same thing twice? Not even funny.  I already knew you hated the game.

 

My point was why bring a Classic Sonuc comic instead of a Forces one.

[Celestia]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The Unleashed adaptation was certainly different in some areas. Not enough in a few others but at the end of the day I enjoyed it fine. I still find myself in the position of wanting to avoid something like it for a long while though. Most likely because of just how long it was, admittedly.

Yeah, that's the only reason I tend not to be hyped by adaptations as far as comics go. The Fighters arc wasn't a problem, but that particular case 1) was in middle of said Unleashed arc, 2) was adapting a game with an Excuse Plot at best and 3) it was more of an homage to the game than an adaptation, really. Not that that's a bad thing since again, there wasn't really much to go on.

9 minutes ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

My point was why bring a Classic Sonuc comic instead of a Forces one.

That's a weird point to make when nobody was arguing that?

Though speaking of Mega Drive (in your last post), I'm expecting influence from it given it's positive reception, but the book isn't going to be exactly like it. Mega Drive was a mini-series on the side that was primarily just for fun and kept things understandably simple. But I'm hoping there is some Mega Drive influence, primarily in the character interaction. Seriously, it was just...so fun. I wanna see that again, and with the cast rotating so we can see it with everyone at some point.

[Polkadi~☆]

I was saying it as an IF.

IF Sonic Forces gets an adaptation, then how would you do that? And the question is asked based on what we know. Plus, it doesn't have to be exact, it's an adaptation. Taken from the word 'adapt'. A game that adapts to a comic environment.

Plus, IDW Sonic will still have it's own universe going. The games can have already taken place, or have yet to take place. It didn't stop post-reboot Archie with Unleashed and Fighters.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I usually see adaptations as a way to do something unique that the original didn't do or failed to capitalize on. Something that goes along similar lines but does something with its own twists and takes.

That was one thing I really liked about the Unleashed adaptation in Archie despite its flaws...okay, it was mainly because of the Egg Bosses and seeing everyone who wasn't Unleashed (game cast or not) get involved, but still.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Okay well why are you arguing the point I already made against a point I didn't

Why did you quote a post that wasn't directed at you to give a "solution" that violated the fundamental assumptions of the argument I was responding to?

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Because I don't actually expect them to characterize the Avatar or Classic at all?

Okay so you do have less faith in Forces' story than I do. Which, wow, I didn't think that was possible.

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Forces isn't SA2. Modern Sonic doesn't have major characters who aren't Sonic, Tails and Eggman. Don't feign ignorance like this story is going to be better than it is just to pretend the likely-better adaptation has no way to be good.

I believe Forces' story is going to be absolute crap but that doesn't mean I expect there will be no attempt at its characters actually meaningfully participating it. If you don't like the SA2 comparison, then imagine '06 without Shadow or Silver. Garbage story as it is, but you're not making any kind of decent adaptation if you blindly throw away 2/3 of it.

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

If the story is apparently as bad as you believe it to be, why would you take anything but the most absolute measure to improve upon it?

Well, I'd rather see it dumped in the trash than waste effort trying to fix it, for one.

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

If the original story sucks, there's no reason to keep it similar just to pay respects or whatever. You think I wouldn't completely axe Elise from 06's story if I rewrote it? A good adaptation takes every liberty it needs to to be as good as it can be. The purpose is to make something good, not something exactly the same as the original. Because if you want something exactly the same as the original, you have the fucking video game.

At that point, are you really even adapting '06, though? The point always comes up when people talk about remaking it; to fix it, you'd have to change so much that it would no longer be '06 in any meaningful way.

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

No, that's called being open-minded to a possibility.

How open minded would you be to cutting every Sonic character and story element from this hypothetical Forces adaptation and replacing it with the characters and plot of Super Mario Odyssey? Do you think that would make for a good Forces adaptation?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

How open minded would you be to cutting every Sonic character and story element from this hypothetical Forces adaptation and replacing it with the characters and plot of Super Mario Odyssey? Do you think that would make for a good Forces adaptation?

It makes for a good strawman, I know that for certain.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

It makes for a good strawman, I know that for certain.

Well when you're already cutting 2/3, why not go all the way. Nothing seems to actually be required of an adaptation besides being good.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just now, Diogenes said:

I believe Forces' story is going to be absolute crap but that doesn't mean I expect there will be no attempt at its characters actually meaningfully participating it.

Well congrats on making an obviously incorrect assumption then.

Just now, Diogenes said:

If you don't like the SA2 comparison, then imagine '06 without Shadow or Silver. Garbage story as it is, but you're not making any kind of decent adaptation if you blindly throw away 2/3 of it.

Except Shadow and Silver don't necessarily suck total balls. If a story has shit that sucks, you throw it out when you adapt it. 

Just now, Diogenes said:

Well, I'd rather see it dumped in the trash than waste effort trying to fix it, for one.

Ah yes, I believe Sonic Team themselves took that mentality when designing the boost gameplay after 06 failed. I can see why you love them so much.

Just now, Diogenes said:

At that point, are you really even adapting '06, though? The point always comes up when people talk about remaking it; to fix it, you'd have to change so much that it would no longer be '06 in any meaningful way.

No, you'd have made something good, instead. That's better than making an 06 adaptation.

Just now, Diogenes said:

How open minded would you be to cutting every Sonic character and story element from this hypothetical Forces adaptation and replacing it with the characters and plot of Super Mario Odyssey? Do you think that would make for a good Forces adaptation?

I don't know, is simply trashing the entire comic book and just shipping a copy of Forces instead a better adaptation? I mean, it's the only accurate version.

Just now, Diogenes said:

Well when you're already cutting 2/3, why not go all the way. Nothing seems to actually be required of an adaptation besides being good.

Hey, if I made an "adaptation" of this thread and cut out your shitty attitude, would it stop being a thread about IDW Sonic?

[Dejimon11]

I don't know why anybody would want a Sonic Forces comic even tho the series was essentially that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Well when you're already cutting 2/3, why not go all the way. Nothing seems to actually be required of an adaptation besides being good.

Because that "2/3", or more accurately two characters, are literally the only thing people are suggesting they could likely work without if they chose. No one here is suggesting that they cut or straight up trash the whole thing except you and ShroomZed, and you're being deliberately dishonest to frame everyone else's points that way.

[Almar]

What's stopping Buddy from just being the red fox version for Comic Forces?

[JosepHenry]

3 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I don't know why anybody would want a Sonic Forces comic even tho the series was essentially that.

Why you are assuming nobody wants anything from Forces? There is a lot of people excited for the game, y'know. 

Though I don't think the game needs to have an adaptation, just make an original arc introducing the new characters from Forces.

[Razule]

Damn, the premise of Forces is essentially "Eggman took over the world with the help of an ambiguous furry and some old villains, and now Sonic is in a resistance to stop him". 

Ignoring that that sounds really close to some other thing, how hard could it be to adapt that in a way that's different but not so different that it's not really an adaptation? 

Sorry, but it feels like most of you guys' arguments could be applied to adapting any game. It just seems like you have something against Forces in particular. And I don't even like Forces or want an adaptation of it..

[Shaddy Zaphod]

1 minute ago, Almar said:

What's stopping Buddy from just being the red fox version for Comic Forces?

As much as they probably will do that, I kinda hope they go over-the-top and just make the most unique and well-designed character they can based off what you can make in Forces' creator.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Well congrats on making an obviously incorrect assumption then.

Man I get all sorts of crap for assuming Forces' story is going to be bad but it seems like it's fine for everyone else to say it.

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Except Shadow and Silver don't necessarily suck total balls.

(they do tho)

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

If a story has shit that sucks, you throw it out when you adapt it. 

Yeah, like, the entirety of '06, and probably the entirety of Forces. So what are you actually expecting to adapt?

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Ah yes, I believe Sonic Team themselves took that mentality when designing the boost gameplay after 06 failed. I can see why you love them so much.

...and Unleashed was radically better (though still deeply flawed) than '06, so...?

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

No, you'd have made something good, instead. That's better than making an 06 adaptation.

Yeah, okay, but can you maybe slow down and keep to the discussion we're having, which is specifically about adaptations, and not about writing entirely new stories? Because I am all for stories that are Not '06 (and Not Forces), but that's not the matter at hand right now.

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

I don't know, is simply trashing the entire comic book and just shipping a copy of Forces instead a better adaptation? I mean, it's the only accurate version.

The best option is to not adapt Forces at all. But that's not what the discussion is about. The assumption is that Forces would be adapted, so, I dunno, maybe that should involve Forces actually being adapted?

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Hey, if I made an "adaptation" of this thread and cut out your shitty attitude, would it stop being a thread about IDW Sonic?

It'd be a pretty poor adaptation of it. What good's an adaptation that cuts all the drama and conflict?

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Because that "2/3", or more accurately two characters, are literally the only thing people are suggesting they could likely work without if they chose. 

Man when I go and assume what Forces' story is going to be like I get a whole load of shit about it but it seems fine when anyone else does it.

This fanbase, man.

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

As much as they probably will do that, I kinda hope they go over-the-top and just make the most unique and well-designed character they can based off what you can make in Forces' creator.

Considering most of Forces' customization seems to be in sticking random clothes and accessories onto very generic bases, the red wolf probably is about the best that can be done with it.

[KoDaiko]

Wait, did Forces come out? Are people playing it already? I thought it was coming out next month. How do they know it sucks? Sonic game stories are usually mediocre, with occasional terrible ones, so I won't be surprised if it turned out okay. As long as they don't mess up character portrayals....

I hated Lost World's story, but did look forward to the comic adaption because I was sure the comic can make it better (on the opposite, liked Unleashed game's story but not enjoy the adaption). If they ever did a 06 adaption, I'm willing to try because while there were parts that was meh I enjoyed the story and want to see how the comic can change it. I don't know if Forces will suck, I don't know if it will be good. But I think the game will be "okay" as long as they don't portray anyone out of character, and an adaption will be "okay" if done right. I mean, all they need to do is have most of the game cast, Infinite, and (an) OC(s). I think the concern is more of what kind of world the IDW comic will be in normally...it would've been so weird if Archie adapted it: Eggman already rules the world, there is already the FF, nothing new.

I have a feeling if they ever do Forces it will be a separate, special issue since it is kind of a crossover event between Modern and Classic.

[Zaysho]

13 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Hey, if I made an "adaptation" of this thread and cut out your shitty attitude, would it stop being a thread about IDW Sonic?

Alright. I'm stepping in here.

Can we just keep this from getting personal and move the conversation along civilly? Thanks.

 

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It'd be a pretty poor adaptation of it. What good's an adaptation that cuts all the drama and conflict?

I'm sure you're just soaking this all up, but I'm pretty tired of your attitude in this thread, too. Don't egg this shit on.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man I get all sorts of crap for assuming Forces' story is going to be bad but it seems like it's fine for everyone else to say it.

Sure sends a message about how you conduct yourself then, doesn't it?

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

(they do tho)

Nah

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, like, the entirety of '06, and probably the entirety of Forces. So what are you actually expecting to adapt?

Again with this mentality. It's not the entirety. Hell, Forces at large might even do alright when it comes to characterizing the people that aren't Classic and Rookie. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, you tweak what's needed. There is such a thing as making large story changes without compromising the overall look and feel of a story. Eva 2.22 does this pretty well.

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

...and Unleashed was radically better (though still deeply flawed) than '06, so...?

So you're claiming that throwing out everything when something doesn't work instead of fixing it is a good idea, even when the alternative isn't necessarily going to be good either. And yet, I've seen your posts on Sonic's gameplay. Obviously there's a disparity here.

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, okay, but can you maybe slow down and keep to the discussion we're having, which is specifically about adaptations, and not about writing entirely new stories? Because I am all for stories that are Not '06 (and Not Forces), but that's not the matter at hand right now.

Yet again, an adaptation's quality is not measured by accuracy, it's measured by whether it's good as a product. Again, if you wanted a version of Forces' story that was no different from the game, you should just play the game. I didn't suffer through Berserk 2016 for people like you to be told it's better just because it doesn't change the dialogue.

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The best option is to not adapt Forces at all. But that's not what the discussion is about. The assumption is that Forces would be adapted, so, I dunno, maybe that should involve Forces actually being adapted?

Well I'd sure like to discuss that, but unfortunately, my inability to follow the twisted logic of liberties being taken to Forces' story declaring it no longer pertaining to Forces has prevented that somewhat.

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Man when I go and assume what Forces' story is going to be like I get a whole load of shit about it but it seems fine when anyone else does it.

You'll notice I never actually said Forces' story would be bad. I said Classic Sonic, who has no personality, won't be given a personality, and I said the Avatar, who basically is designed without a personality in mind, probably won't have a personality. That means nothing for the other ~15 or more characters otherwise involved in the plot.

[Dr. Detective]

I was actually planning on staying in the Green Hill Zone section of the boards to avoid discussions about Forces for the last month until it's release. Kind of grew tired of the back and forth from both sides.

However, it just became clear that there's no escape.

No escape.

Whatever though. I knew it was a long shot anyway.

One of the things I'm worried about a tiny bit with Ian being back, and one of the things I was hoping to see a new take on with the comics is how Sonic himself will be written.

I remember having a ton of issues with just how much of a jerk he came off as in a lot of the issues up till a certain point. Eventually, that cooled off and he became way more tolerable but I do still remember having issues with how much the "Overzealous 90s cool and snappy dude with the tude" part of his personality was being played up. Felt like the worst parts of his character were actually being flanderized a bit. Either that or the writing would try a bit too hard to be clever with how he (and a few other characters) spoke. Both with it's humor and sometimes with it's drama.

I was interested in seeing how a different writer would tackle handling Sonic's personality but with Ian being back, I'm wondering if he'll take a slightly altered approach or if it'll be more of what he was doing before. 

I can't judge right now but it might end up being something I don't even notice if the world and setting is something I love. Sometimes how you perceive a character can change depending on the circumstances behind their position in the book. 

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

All I can tell you there is that you should be glad he's not Fleetway Sonic. Archie Sonic was often just poorly-written, but StC Sonic was fuckin mean. He had a serious hard-on for verbally abusing Tails.

[Celestia]

I think Ian has a good grasp on Sonic as a character, especially in the last few years of the book / post-reboot. He has impatient "jerkish" moments (and as I see it, that's perfectly in line with say, SA1/2) but nothing too far...then again my memory's terrible and it's been a while since I read any issues. XP

[Sega DogTagz]

I can't think of too many moments in recent comic history where Sonic has crossed any imaginary line in the sand. Where did he stick out as overly mean or snarky in Ian's last couple years?

[GentlemanX]

...sure, I'll speculate if IDW does a Forces adaptation.

Obviously, the most likely method they would go for is a the "Another Time, Another Place" short back up tie in. Show Modern Sonic running through City Heights and then run into Infinite and the allied villains. End of story, plug the game now available on XBONE, PS4, Switch etc.

But, let's assume an actual, full adaption of Sonic Forces comes is requested. It doesn't make much sense to me to do it in the actual IDW canon if that's going to be distinct from the Sega canon like they've been hinting - especially so early in the comic's life span. In that case, I'd see IDW doing a mini-series adapting the game. Like how you'll get six issue adaptations of the newest Star Wars movie. They'd adapt the storyline of the game in comic form, showing off the cutscenes, creating narrative versions of the levels and bosses, etc. I think they could easily fit that into six issues to then be collected into a single trade paperback.

At this point we need to talk about Classic Sonic and the Avatar, as they'd be involved in a 1:1 adaptation like this. I imagine both would be allowed by Sega in a "Sonic Forces" comic. The Avatar seems incredibly easy to adapt - use the Red Wolf Avatar that's showing up in all the promotional material and give him dialogue - he's a player insert character, they're pretty easy to write in-offensive dialogue for - and just use him in all of the relative story moments. Classic's a bit more problematic in trying to figure out how Sega would want him portrayed. The Avatar would likely be allowed dialogue, would Classic though? When he doesn't in the game? At the moment, I think Classic is going to be mostly superfluous to the game's plot given what we've seen so far. He really seems to only be there to get Classic fans interested in playing Classic gameplay. Axing him may be doable without changing the overall story of the game, but obviously that's just conjecture and we'll find out when the actual game comes out. Assuming the worst and Classic Sonic is integral and Sega forces him to be silent, it'll make his scenes in the comic awkward to say the least, but easily doable.

Okay, let's go ahead and finally go with the least likely scenario and assume they do a straight, full adaptation of Sonic Forces in the new, proper IDW canon. At this point, I think you're looking at a "Shattered World Arc"/ Archie "Chaos Arc" adaptation. In other words, a very loose adaptation that covers the main story beats from Forces while ignoring the context of it. Eggman creates Infinite and attacks the world on a global scale. Sonic and his friends team up and take down Eggman and Infinite and everything goes back to normal. I imagine there'd be no Classic, no extended cast like with the allied villains, and likely there wouldn't be an Avatar insert either. The idea would be to get a quick game tie-in for a few months and then get things back to a status quo. If Sega really wanted it to be point for point an adaptation of Forces, they'd probably do the six issue adaptation version and just do minor changes related to the IDW Sonic world they're creating. But because the book will have just launched, this seems like the most frustrating way of handling a Forces adaptation and I can't see Sega forcing IDW to do that and I certainly don't see IDW willingly choosing to do it that way. 

[Marcello]

I like the way Unleashed was adapted. I think it improved it in most ways. Having it be the driving plot while also telling other stories for a while was a good idea. I wouldn't mind them doing the same with Forces. Have an original plot for a while, then have Eggman get rid of Sonic somehow and do a vague timeskip to him having taken over the world and adapt from there.